THE TIKTOK BAN BILL GOING THROUGH CONGRESS RIGHT NOW WILL GIVE GOVERNMENT INSANE POWER TO RESTRICT SPEECH.
AT THE SAME TIME SECTION 230 PROTECTIONS ARE ABOUT TO BE NEUTERED BY THE SUPREME COURT WHICH WILL ADD AN INSANE AMOUNT OF LIABILITY TO CENTRALIZED PLATFORMS - INEVITABLY INCREASING CENSORSHIP.
RESTRICTING FREE SPEECH IN AMERICA HAS BIPARTISAN SUPPORT AMONG OUR CORRUPT POLITICAL CLASS.
NOSTR IS ABOUT TO HAVE ITS MOMENT TO SHINE. WE NEED TO BE READY FOR BILLIONS OF NEW USERS.
Would the changes to section 230 apply to relay operators?
No one is changing Section 230 provisions. Courts have held this up considerably and there is no evidence it's in danger now.
Ah, but not so fastā¦why wouldnāt 230 be on the chopping block??? Itās in the way of the bigger agenda. But I feel that relay operators will not suffer the blowback.
Whoās creating their own ISPā¦because this is the next wave IMHO to address relays and their movement of info.
If the US gov will have these powers, Nostr will suffer.
None at all, because it's just about forcing a sale of a division of a firm owned by a foreign adversary
You can read yourself: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/7521/text?s=1&r=1&q=%7B%22search%22%3A%22HR7521%22%7D
absolute. Nostr needs to establish relays and clients in various parts of the world so that it does not become a single point of obstruction. Politicians try to hide the truth.
Have you tried watching Amazon Prime via a VPN lately? Can't relays be as easily blocked by ISPs? (once Nostr starts flying high enough to ne detected by the censorship radar)
There will be, but there will be a solution. Because Nostr doesn't have a CEO, Nostr is decentralized. Nor is there a giant company like Amazon. Anyone around the world can run a Relay and client anytime you want.
JOE BIDEN LITERALLY JOINED TIKTOK TO PROMOTE HIMSELF TO GEN Z, THIS ISN'T ABOUT PROTECTING KIDS, ITS ABOUT A POWER GRAB. IT IS A PARENTS JOB TO PROTECT THEIR KIDS!
DONT LOSE THE PLOT š«”
streisand OP
nostr:npub1qny3tkh0acurzla8x3zy4nhrjz5zd8l9sy9jys09umwng00manysew95gx don't care tiktok is cringe and for pedophiles. Shut it down.
AND THAT'S WHY I SAY IT EARLIER, IT DOES NOT ONLY GOING TO RESTRICT FREE SPEECH, BUT THEY ARE *TRYING TO BE CHINA*.
No, it won't happen. Nostr will grow steadily but slowly over the time. That's all.
Gives power to ban websites also as I understand. So many clients could be affected and Relays I assume. Surely there will be a way to get around these laws. Vpns, Tor? F Droid for app downloads. How do people in China get around govt internet bans technically doeaking?
It does none of that. It's a bill to force a sale.
Have you read this?
Section G3B reads to me as if it can apply to a website as I suggested, ie "covered company" which includes websites as per their definition controlled by a foreign adversary. What about what I said is incorrect?
that is a definitional clause to explain what the forced divestiture applies to. The bill mentions ByteDance and TikTok specifically, ācovered companyā is the legal nomenclature per the US code. Any attempt to go beyond TikTok would be a direct constitutional challenge
Well the way its written it can apply to covered companies not related to Bytedance. Constitution gets broken all the time. Cases sometimes go to court for these breakages but by the time it's decided upon the damage is done.
say what you will about Tiktok. I find banning it is dangerous and shouldn't be up to governments to decide its fate. This is no different than China banning US apps.
Maybe government alloted video game time will be next too! So exciting! š
Centralized fiat systems always self destruct.
Is there a TikTok clone client yet?
Sad to see U.S. joining Canada in shutting down free speech
YOUāRE BASICALLY COMING TO OUR (TURKEY) LEVEL IN FREE SPEECH. WE WERENāT BEEN IN THIS POSITION EVER. THE CHANGE STARTS GRADUALLY.
Love and respect, Sir Odell, but not correct.
Looking at the bill, it's entirely limited to forced divestiture of a specific social media video app owned by a firm in a state deemed to be a "foreign adversary," which is strictly defined in US code: North Korea, Iran, China, Cuba, Russia, and Venezuela.
There is no legal way to apply this to any other technology, company, or entity. It's actually a good thing if we care about getting people off CCP spyware.
I wrote about it here:
https://consumerchoicecenter.org/the-best-answer-to-tiktok-is-a-forced-divestiture/
As for Section 230, the cases before the Supreme Court this term are appeals where tech firms won and strengthened Section 230, and most legal observers say they have no chance. I'm inclined to agree. The only way to undo Section 230 is by Congress. In case that happens, there would be plenty of good privacy and tech advocates battling against that.
As for free speech and nostr, there are a lot of lessons and nostr is well placed as a decentralized protocol. Very bullish.
I just wouldn't take the arguments of the TikTok lawyers too seriously, since CCP want to expand their social credit score system. Maybe that's why they got their military to hack everyone's credit scores in the US:
https://thespectator.com/topic/chinese-communist-party-credit-history-equifax/
Thank you for this comment. I can't abide loosing section 230. I do think banning tictok is not a good thing, and would eventually threaten somehow section 230, but, I feel better reading your response here. Without 230, game over for my nostr business, protec at all cost. š±š“š½š»āāļø
agree! thankfully the bill is just a forced divestiture. Same thing was applied to GRINDR when we found out the CCP was accessing people's sexual histories, HIV status, etc.
The difference there was that it was ordered by CFIUS than an act of Congress.
the idea of surveillance been a good thing for ppl is my biggest shock, it's ok been treated as a criminal for the "big picture" and there is mo way around, folks ask for that repeatedly š¤® freedom tech is hope and a niche
Roger that Orange Leader.
While I agree that we should not limit free speech at all, I am curious to understand why this bill specifically targets free speech. In the bill itself, there are two qualifiers for apps/websites/hosts to be fined and banned: 1) they are ByteDance, Tik Tok, and any subsidiaries or 2) controlled by a foreign adversary.
it doesn't. you're correct.
š«”
Gather hot soup and blankets!
Then there is the Chinese version which is not the same version released to the Americans.
PSYOP
The psyop was convincing people this has something to do with China, and Americans fell for it hence the government will now have more powers.
Gonna need more relaysā¦.
The US do restrict freedom of speech in many ways.
Western countries have more freedom of speech than many others, but not enough at all.
Also Nostr doesn't solve government censorship, only corporate censorship (which is still a big issue, so Nostr is important).
Just say "China" or "Russia" and Americans will let you do whatever you want to "keep them safe".
It's not a stretch to say that the president is controlled by the CCP and other powerful forces, and the president is mentioned specifically multiple times in this bill. The actual president does not play a real part because he is senile. So I think this particular bill is masterminded by the CCP.
this is why we can't be shy about integrating with shitcoins, they can do the heavy lifting for the more normie stuff and have fun being sued
Feel free to integrate your shitcoins with nostr. Doesnāt impact us or the protocol.
not my shitcoins, i'm just getting paid by them to build database interfaces... in bitcoin
despite how scammy most shitcoin projects are i'm actually working for a project that is merely using shitcoin platforms to build a decentralised collab system
it is not a shitcoin project, it is an effort to give people credible and secure alternatives to google tools
Yeah, there is a difference between FREEDOM and BEING TOO SMALL TO BE NOTICED, which is often mistaken for the freedom in West.
Nostr users, unaffected.
Anyone know where I can read the actual bill? Iām just going to assume the bill doesnāt state tiktok specifically so they can keep it open ended to any app they want.
Section 230 needs to be neutered - with the consequence that platforms which are truly neutral, non-censorship organizations get S230 protection and those who exercise editorial control are liable for what they publish. The current S230 for censorship organizations promotes censorship.
Section 230 made the Internet what it is. Setting up exemptions among Internet platforms would effectively weaken it, and that would harm free speech online.
I do not want to exempt internet platforms, I want to apply 230 as written, which is not the case now.
230 says that common carriers (eg telephone companies) providing a neutral service cannot be held liable for the messages people send across that neutral service. A tech company that censors some points of view is not a neutral service but is exercising editorial control, and can & should be held liable for what they choose to publish or exclude.
The existing framework allows these companies to censor and still enjoy the legal protection of a common carrier. By requiring them to actually function as a common carrier to enjoy this protection, free speech would be enhanced rather than harmed.
Online platforms are not common carriers, at least not according to Title II. Nor should they be. They shouldn't be forced to carry all content, and that's a good thing.
Recent court cases in Florida and Texas have ruled this way, and the Supreme Court is due to write an opinion on the state-level rules that would have made it illegal to curate content on social media.
Removing the "right to censor" also means requiring blogs to host all comments and spam regardless of content.
The main issue on censorship and moderation stems from the jawboning at the hands of US agencies ā directly or indirectly ā which should absolutely be illegal.
Ultimately, nostr can win not because social media platforms will be "forced" to carry all content, but because online users will recognize that the censorious platforms suck and will choose to go elsewhere. I'd rather have that freedom to choose, and continue Section 230 as it applies to online platforms, than have the government make that determination.
Nobody is forced to host all content, they are just not a common carrier if they pick and choose (and thus are liable for the outcome of their editorial discretion).
Could that be applied to relay operators too though?
If you're selling relay hosting as a service, then yes
If your revenue stream is something else (or charitable), then no
Even common carriers do some censorship, for example they filter spam. So where is the line the drawn?
I don't see how you can draw the line at anything other than "does not filter" vs "does filter" if you're trying to be consistent (which the law purportedly is)
Actually I am not sure if common carriers filter spam. Anyeays, social media or any other type of platform cannot possibly be called a common carrier, as there is a pretty clear distinction between displaying content versus providing the pipes over which content travels.
Got me. Today is the day I realized the magnitude of this!
Governments all over the world are too big. Need to fire 95% of them. Wen blockchain governance?
Better than Blockchain governance is real democracy like in Switzerland. https://thedemocracyupgrade.org
tiktok should stop protecting child predators
GE
If only there was some amendment that protected a citizen from such draconian measuresā¦ā¦
And our senile āleaderā rolls this one out. YCMTSUā¦you canāt make this shit up.
https://cointelegraph.com/news/crypto-mining-tax-united-states-budget
The little servers that couldā¦š
nostr:npub12hcytyr8fumy3axde8wgeced523gyp6v6zczqktwuqeaztfc2xzsz3rdp4
A relay would have to be the size of a datacenter rack to handle that. Is anyone working on making relays more distributed?
NOSTR is the salvation for all of those who love freedom! šŖš¾š¤š¾šā”ļø
#Nostr Leeeesss fucking gooo!!!
#freedomtech
Can you please calm down and turn off caps lock
His are the quietest ALL CAPS posts on the internet, decentralized or otherwise. But they have loud content.
Nostr doesn't have the addiction tech mastered like TikTok et al. I would argue that's a good thing, but it won't drive insane usage like the other social platforms.
I've gone from fretting over these things to assuming they're going to happen - incentives at work - and just looking forward to the potentials of the next steage
Wish the Ramones were still around. Where are this generationās musicians right now?????
And those billions will be confronted in nostr with the broken money system and the solution Bitcoin. They will start to buy BTC too. Maybe we should stack harder just in case.
My first opinion about TikTok is that this platform has low-quality content that reduces moral values and mental standards and makes you addicted to dopamine spikes.
In my view banning it is a great move.
The beauty of Nostr is you are not more attached to addictive algorithms and controlled narratives.
Now content consumption is in your hands.
Nostr gives you the power to choose your content.
I believe Nostr and Zapping are ready to onboard creators and audiences.
LFG! America šŗšø
The coming presidential election could very well spill over to nostr. And they wonāt be able to block anyone calling out their bullshitš«”
People will be driven toward freedom
Absolutely agree! With the current pace of accumulation by ETFs, it's evident that the bullish momentum for #Bitcoin is strong. The increasing demand is a clear sign of confidence in its long-term value it's crucial to 1000x your positions now and stay ready for the bull. join RCL VIP group now and DCA with high algorithm performance and 1000x your positions, https://t.me/rebelcapitalistshowšš„šÆ
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šāāļø
>>> WE NEED TO BE READY FOR BILLIONS OF NEW USERS.
Correct!
Decentralize all the things!
Centralization teaches the importance of decentralization.
No option left other than decentralization.
Real democracy (Swiss democracy) is the way. In Switzerland this would have gone to referendum and the people would have voted no.
Didnt our founders explicitly reject pure democracy for good reasons?
Their point about real democracy was that it suffered tyranny of the majority. But the thing is, the system they choose is the one that suffers from this problem. The federal government will eventually eat the US, with time.
Swiss democracy is the only system with no tyranny of the majority. It has referendums every 3 months and thus no group can ever win constantly. There's no tyranny of the majority because there's no majority ever. You win today, you lose tomorrow, and on it goes.
- 7 Principles of the Swiss Democracy
- People's Veto Power (power to deny any law at any level)
- Federalism (3 referendum levels, national, regional and local)
- Open Lists (a.k.a vote in the people, not parties)
- People's Initiatives (a.k.a let the people start new laws)
- The Constitutional Referendums (a.k.a raising taxes always triggers a referendum)
- Public Recalls (everybody can be removed from political positions)
- Mixed Executive Government (parties work together)
Very interesting. Bro why no wallet!?! I tried to zap you
Ah, thank you good sir, very kind :)
I did create a wallet now, hopefully it works!
How'd they avoid a majority? Seems like the US has almost always had one.
When exactly, in the US?
There's no tyranny of the majority in Switzerland because of the tools listed above. In other words:
Optional Referendums: Citizens can reject laws passed by the government through petition.
Federalism: Power is decentralized, letting regions make their own decisions.
Open Lists and Panachage: Voters pick individual candidates, not just parties.
People Initiatives: Citizens can propose new laws with enough signatures.
And in another more pragmatic way:
There is no clear majority because we have about 14 referendums every three months, totaling 60 per year at all levels: national, cantonal, and municipal. These cover very specific topics, such as whether to build a statue for X in our municipality, invest in nuclear energy in our state, allow states to define education infrastructure, or veto a specific law. In other words, the topics are so specific that they completely bypass the usual left-right, group-focused politics. You might win one referendum but lose another. No single group ever dominates because the people interested in referendums are always changing.
Interesting. We so have, in some fashion, similar tools in the US. Prob is a scaling issue: US has 300+ million citizens of diverse cultures across a large geography, switzerland has 9 million people of mostyl european ethnicity in a small strip of land the size of Virginia.
Yes, there are already some states in the US that have these tools.
In terms of scalability I don't think there's any problems at all. These tools are blind to numbers, it's just a matter of adapting the signature triggers to the population of the US.
Regarding adoption, it's the same as every other political change, bottom-up and top-down. I'm a big proponent of bottom-up first, i.e implementing the 7 Swiss political tools listed above in a municipality somewhere, sharing the results with the world on the internet and scaling from there. That's the whole idea why I've created the website, Discords, etc, to get the movement going.
Are you interested in this kind of ideas? I honestly don't see any better alternatives to this. The alternative is just more polarization, conflict and wars, in the really dumb, brute force system that we have today.
Haha wow bro tbh I didnt even see your profile and that you had a website and this is literally your main thing. I thought was just shootin the poop with an average nostrich. Ill take a look at your stuff.. looks cool!
eheh, I am just "shooting the poop" too regardless :D
But yeah, I'm also tired of the status quo and really believe we have to elevate the state of discourse, refining our political systems using all the available technological tools such as blockchains, Bitcoin, Web3, etc, etc.
What tools are we missing to truly bring the change we want to bring to the world? You know what I mean?
āOnce a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in fear." -Harry Truman 1950
To be clear, we're at the "Increasingly repressive measures" phase of this plan...
Thatās a bit hyperbolic. Isnāt it only for apps coming from China, North Korea, Russia, or Iran? Or apps that have people within the organization with deals with any of these countries? And couldnāt you still side load the apps?
The US doesn't have billions of inhabitants. The ones that care are a sliver of the conservatives and a sliver of the libertarians. So let's stay humble and scale to a few million (which will already be incredible).
I want to use it more but no one sees my tweets, feels lonely here
I feel your pain
Back to the days of chronological time lines - there's an app to schedule posts now, I don't know if it can auto boost certain posts at times you set, maybe that'll increase your reach? I've got plenty of follows here and gets sufficient interaction - I'm not sure how owners of more popular accounts manage it tbh
Seems too Dan Heldy, I don't want to live like that
nostr fixes this
nostr:note1dl25swd7pn0r7tt47fuk3a6r70av7kt7c8q6nu6rlyll9c7xlpps8wnz37
Couldnāt have said it better!
How can we get ready?
Reposted š«”
Well said! Removing barriers to entry (while reinforcing best practices on account security) is gonna be critical
What is the solution to spam/bots on nostr? The basic protocol is free (as in beer), which puts a centralizing pressure on the network topology.
The system should pivot to paid-only use. Charge for reading, get paid for being read, etc.
This is an election year, everything should be viewed as a distraction before it's viewed as whatever they say it is.
Also, do you really want tiktok people here?
Code is speech. Cypherpunks write code.
RIP
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
nostr:note1dl25swd7pn0r7tt47fuk3a6r70av7kt7c8q6nu6rlyll9c7xlpps8wnz37
Nostr might be too much for TikTok-brain people, those with deep-fried dopamine receptors
Barely anyone will come to nostr from TikTok. It was banned here in India few years ago and people just moved to Instagram reels
If it wasnāt for TikTok, I wouldnāt have heard of this client thingy that I do not quite understand. I think I prefer Tumblr, when it comes to aesthetics, and the ability to stack gif/links/photos. I think I need to find better tutorials than I found. The kind that donāt have all the endorsement buy thisā¦stuff I donāt understand in the beginning so I want to leave. ā ļø! These seems rather basic! If Iām supposed to speak in code to make things work. I will probably surely not use this much! But Iām giving it a chance.
Maybe the ban is a good thing...hear me out: tiktok is spyware, so speech there isnt truly free...so banning it results in migration to truly free nostr...thus net increase in free speech and freedom.
Not that they intend this, but they are the super good at causing unintended consequences.
