Nostr Web Client

And your stupid-ass comments, that people who don't like your garbage code should go build their own app is merely an open acknowledgement that

YOU ARE NOT CAPABLE OF BUILDING AN APP THAT ISN'T GARBAGE.

Learn to code.

Enki 1y ago

Sincerely trying to build non-shit relay software, that's why it's kind of taken me so long. Also, I recognize I'm a shit coder. 😅

Silberengel 1y ago

Shit coders can actually build a solid-ish system, if they test it really hard. The problem arises, if they want someone else to work on their code with them, or they change something and can't repeat the tests. Then they get overrun with regressions, which is why unit testing is a godsend.

MichaelJ 1y ago

I'd rather have good software delivered slowly than bad software delivered rapidly.

Just say you're being "methodical." 😆

Also, join the slow dev club! It's not so bad over here.

Silberengel 1y ago

Low time-preference development. Software development for grownups.

Maybe then, the users will stop running away from our products like their hair is on fire.

Rotating rapidly through 20 iterations of the same crappily-produced code does not produce production-ready software. It produces a large pile of crap.

Silberengel 1y ago

We've legit been watching people hype up, blow up, and bow out, in a constant stream, while we plod along, at a tortoise's pace.

#Alexandria is going to make it to the first real release before most of their stuff does, even though we started later, just do this as a hobby, deliver with full QA, and had to invent one of the most difficult event kinds, first.

Some of them are on like v0.0.46 🤪

Real software engineering, ftw.

Silberengel 1y ago

Also, ignore the hype of the people hacking some shit together over a weekend. If you look at their code, it's often classic vaporware; everything hard-coded in and poorly thought out and never tested (not even manually!)

They'll end up in the gigantic, overflowing FOSS graveyard, with almost everyone else. Probably never make it past a third iteration.

Never seen an ecosystem produce this much hype for this little result. 🤣

Extremely fiat mentality.

captain ☦️ 1y ago

if my garbage app is good enough for me to find value in it, then I'll post it to the world

SweedWick 1y ago

Boom

Silberengel 1y ago

Everyone is grossly discounting the reputational risk of "releasing too soon".

Even an alpha release should work well. Being alpha just means it contains some new feature, not that everything else breaks down.

If your stuff doesn't work, properly and reliably, then it is a mere prototype, and not a release. If you only ever release prototypes, then why do you expect anyone to use it? Prototypes are to be looked at, and discussed, not used.

That release coulda been a screenshot.

Silberengel 1y ago

Like, do y'all even understand what a "release" is? It's a software increment that has been "approved for wider use". It's called a release because someone or something was holding it back and "released it".

Who approved your last release? You did? For real? That's interesting.

Okay, you approved it according to what definition or checklist? Oh, you didn't have one? Then it's just a prototype.

Silberengel 1y ago

I know, right? When did releasing prototypes become something we do? Literally defeats the whole purpose of it being a prototype.

Nostress 1y ago

Are you referring to #Primal as well? I use it and think it’s ok actually.

However I have some issues working my way around #Alby.

#Fountain and #Wavlake no problem for me

Why don’t you direct your messages to the people interested? I’d like to know what they think.

Yesterday there was an X space about #Nostr with big names talking.

Silberengel 1y ago

Aargh! Stop asking me to report bugs. I'm literally going to win the Bug Reporter of the Year Award, or something.

I have two companies now paying me to test their stuff, and who are eager for the information, so that's the stuff I'll test, going forward.

Nostress 1y ago

Reporting bugs is fundamental for growth but I understand your lack of of time.

So why are you on #Nostr if you think it’s that bad?

Frank 1y ago

But its really great opportunity to write whatever I want.

No one can Change this writing.

Silberengel 1y ago

I can do that, from the command line or a script.

The software isn't Nostr. Nostr is the protocol.

Agi Choote 1y ago

Could you provide an example of software you wrote that could work as a benchmark ?

Silberengel 1y ago

I could. Thank you for asking.

Agi Choote 1y ago

Well, you didn’t.

I’m so curious to see you coming out with something.

Honestly I’d love to have a live conversation with you cause you are the most curious personality on Nostr for me. Basically I disapprove of at least 90% of what you type out loud but I’d really love to see you succeed with your projects cause I think the goals are great.

Zaelus 1y ago

I suppose you think all forms of product reviews that exist in the world should be illegal unless the person reviewing has created an equal or better product themselves, right? Nobody is allowed to say anything is bad unless they prove that they can do better first in your mind?

Maybe you should provide an example of some software you wrote first that we can use as a benchmark to gauge if your responses here have any merit. If you haven't written something better, how is it fair for *you* to ask someone else to provide that?

Agi Choote 1y ago

Well I don’t happen to express any opinions about software (witch I do not do myself) development here on Nostr.

I happen to have a bit of experience with design and product development so I did work with a fair amount of devs.

Next to that most of nostr:npub1l5sga6xg72phsz5422ykujprejwud075ggrr3z2hwyrfgr7eylqstegx9z comments that I see reposted are actually about product development and about the idea of polishing internally before publishing.

I’ve seen this attitude fail and underperform a few times. Including myself. I used to have this attitude. Thats why I really wish them to succeed despite my and others examples of failing.

There are so many disadvantages..

without users you don’t really know who are you building for

If you don’t do work in small increments you’ll have to redo a lot once you’ll find mistakes

If you are not getting externally stress tested you have a blindspot for bugs/vulnerabilities

If you don’t have users to feature request you might miss opportunities for adoption

And so on and so on.

P.s. would Nostr community i.e. adoption would exist at all if all devs had this attitude?

P.s.s. Maaaan, nostr:npub1l5sga6xg72phsz5422ykujprejwud075ggrr3z2hwyrfgr7eylqstegx9z I’d really like to talk to you, especially if you held up the sign “change my mind” or maybe you’d change mine

Silberengel 1y ago

You know nothing about anything about me.

Agi Choote 1y ago

I know for sure you feel constantly under attack. Pity

Silberengel 1y ago

This is the sort of gaslighting common to Nostr, which has happened -- repeatedly! -- to myself and my friends.

Stop telling us to not believe our lying eyes, and demanding we somehow prove to have expert knowledge, when simply pointing out that something we have been sold as a product is terribly broken and should be fixed.

This is the "If you have never grown potatoes, why do you expect potatoes to be edible and complain when they are rotten?" argument.

Perhaps, we should be asking the opposite: "If you do not know how to grow an edible potato, but you insist on growing them and selling them at market, why do you never take the time to learn how to grow an edible one?"

It is not difficult to learn. Google it.

Agi Choote 1y ago

I’m grateful to every Nostr dev that has published a broken-ass-barely-a-prototype thing they are building, so we (users) are given the opportunity to build the social layer while the tech layer is getting bootstrapped💜

Derek Ross 1y ago

Nostr developers do care and do work hard, putting in a lot of time, effort, and their lives into their applications and projects. For the most part, these applications are being built by small teams of one person or just a couple people in their spare time. It's very different from traditional software applications that we use every day.

Do issues exist with most applications? Yes.

Are developers aware of said issues? Also yes.

Do they have infinite man hours, time, and budgets like large tech companies? No. No, they do not.

Do they still work on improving their applications? Yes. Yes, they do.

Have faith. No developer says hey I want to build a shit application today and piss people off.

nostr:nevent1qqsfd7kdvr6hnf9ymp0cf8zuzn6hxdac249w6asl3uasr5wc77xeq0cpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7q3ql5sga6xg72phsz5422ykujprejwud075ggrr3z2hwyrfgr7eylqsxpqqqqqqzfxcfm5

BITKARROT 1y ago

... and BTdubs..... if i can come out of "retirement" and do shit in a weekend, y'all millenials and gen Z are NOT working hard enough.

WORK HARDER. 😆💪🫂

hzrd149 1y ago

What apps and what devs? I'm not asking you to start drama but it could be helpful to give them a nudge since I often find that I forget about the most obvious bugs in noStrudel until you or someone else reminds me

Silberengel 1y ago

Right now? What has me so riled up?

Primal Web

Can't tell you how bad Primal Android is, as it doesn't work well enough for me to even run it.

hzrd149 1y ago

Is it the performance issues that everyone has been talking about? I don't use primal but I find that odd since they run a central caching server

Silberengel 1y ago

I literally see less and less of the app on my screen, ever day. The incredible shrinking app.

And they have not fixed (or even read) the bugs I reported last month.

Silberengel 1y ago

I didn't even notice any performance issues, as it doesn't work well enough for me to be able to measure that.

cloud fodder 1y ago

i wuz curious too, but afraid to ask 😂🙏

Marko 1y ago

Hey nostr:npub1l5sga6xg72phsz5422ykujprejwud075ggrr3z2hwyrfgr7eylqstegx9z thanks for your feedback! We are definitely aware of the issues we are having related to slow sppeds on our Web and Android apps. I'm going to reach out to you via DM, would you mind taking a look?

:P 1y ago

Purple Painter 1y ago

Primal was my daily driver, now it is unusable. nostr:npub1vp8fdcyejd4pqjyrjk9sgz68vuhq7pyvnzk8j0ehlljvwgp8n6eqsrnpsw notprimal.lol became my daily driver.

I’m back to mostly Damus.

Niel Liesmons 1y ago

nostr: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

Would love to use PWA noStrudel again 🙏

hzrd149 1y ago

I believe thats an issue with the underlying NIP-49 code, sometimes it seems to use really inefficient code

Also thanks for opening a nostr issue. I'm planning on switching to gitworkshop at some point but there are a few things blocking me

0xtr 1y ago

What's blocking you? I haven't done too much research yet but was thinking about moving to nostr git too

hzrd149 1y ago

Its not a technical thing. but using kind 1 as replies to git issues, I really dislike clients using kind 1 for everything since it shows up in the social feed.

I want to add NIP-22 support in noStrudel and then hopefully gitworkshop can add support for it too

0xtr 1y ago

There are multiple NIP-22 PRs in the nostr repo, is this the one you're referring to? https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/pull/1233

hzrd149 1y ago

yes, its fairly simple and straightforward, it should also help with comments on articles

0xtr 1y ago

Yeah NIP-22 seems great. Do you know if any clients have implemented it yet?

ABH3PO 1y ago

Calm down, a lot of devs are learning as they code. It's mostly a one person show, infact most of the time it's a one person in their spare time thing, and not a team of designers, product managers and whatnot. Most nostr software that gets written only gets written because the dev wants to write it.

I understand you can't respect It, go ahead and write a better client.

Silberengel 1y ago

1) Do not tell me to calm down. Nobody asked you to join this thread, you are free to leave, if you can't handle it.

2) You are not a developer, if you are still learning. Then, you're an apprentice. And even an apprentice should have the decency to at least pretend to care, if someone points out a bug.

3) Anyone working alone, is doing so by choice. Nobody is stopping you from forming teams.

4) If you are just writing stuff "to write it" and not because you want anyone to use it, then keep it to yourself and do not actively promote it to other people.

5) LOL get stuffed.

Jimmy Bond 1y ago

Calm down, you whiny bitch. You're acting like you paid for the shit. Either put up or shut up.

Thank you to all the devs spending their time tirelessly trying to improve their apps despite ungrateful cunts like this offering nothing but bitching and complaining. Most of us are very appreciative.

Joel Walbert 1y ago

"go ahead and write a better client."

This is the exact bullshit faggot ass attitude that is the problem here. I bet you say have fun staying poor quite often as well.

ABH3PO 1y ago

Wow. Such entitlement, lemme guess, spoilt child?

Joel Walbert 1y ago

I would love to hear you speak to me like that in person. Don't act tough online you fucking elitist cunt.

ABH3PO 1y ago

You came at me. All the nostr stuff I built so far was for free, I don't deserve to be abused for it.

Joel Walbert 1y ago

and calling out your shit attitude has nothing to do with entitlement. I dont expect shit form anyone, but I will tell you your attitude, which is very common here, is that of pure faggotry.

ABH3PO 1y ago

Thank you for being an advertisement for the mute button.

00

nicodemus 1y ago

What you’re seeing are all of the inexperienced devs rushing in out of enthusiasm. It’s all just proof of concepts at this point.

Experienced software devs take their sweet time. “When it’s done”. They know the implications, otherwise. They build for the future expansions of their product.

“Experienced” vs “inexperienced” is not about years, either, but growth.

da

Rand 1y ago

i'm having fun! c'mon fren corn&cob is open4biz!

da

Rand 1y ago

amirite Cuz/left hook (0_O)

Silberengel 1y ago

If I am not replying to you, then it's probably because I can't see your note.

My inbox is available at https://theforest.nostr1.com

Jimmy Bond 1y ago

The interface there doesn't even show inline images. Sucks ass

BITKARROT 1y ago

Frankly I think we need more lightning developers. Less tolerance for error when it comes to value transfer and more attention to detail and accuracy than pressure to release asap.

I find it really obnoxious on nostr that people often ask me release fast and furious and that its okay because nothing "bad" happens as its just social media, not money transfer. But hey you want something slapped together, that's what you get, LOL.

Nostr in my mind is just a toy right now, to get attention from others, so yea please keep posting your critiques; much needed.

Nostr has also been a great way to recruit people to help out on projects..... on LN it was literally like pulling teeth to get contributors and testers while its been super easy on nostr. Eventually I hope can then steer them back down to the lightning layer where there is a severe shortage of good devs and a lot of really important stuff needs to be done.

Silberengel 1y ago

I've also worked in the finance sector, among others. The indifferent attitude to software quality around here is bizarre. It's not an effect of the software being new. New things don't actually have to be buggy, and all software is new, at some point.

I also think that they're kidding themselves, with the idea that users don't mind if things don't work. They aren't down here, trying to get people to use the features and apps, and having it simply not work. That is really embarrassing and those people don't let themselves get talked into a second attempt.

BITKARROT 1y ago

don't worry, they'll get washed out. Just keep posting about it :D

Silberengel 1y ago

Yeah, I mean, obviously, it'll correct itself over time. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I'm surpised at how much impact this post had. I've complained about the overall product quality numerous times, and I write issues constantly, but nobody has ever cared. Must have struck a nerve.

Slimer 1y ago

Uh oh some one hasn't tried #Amethyst

Svoboda 1y ago

I agree with pieces of your commentary and have been saying it for awhile. I only use nostr on desktop and cycle between 3 different clients to get a fully-featured experience.

SweedWick 1y ago

Lfg

namosca 1y ago

I always thought of developing an App for hobby but Always thought it would be too hard to get users.

Now with nostr I know I have a huge user base with very easy access to it, so it's much more motivating.

To have so many apps in nostr, even with low quality, is just an indicator of bow easy it is to create something on. Nostr. It's a good sign!

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