Nostr Web Client

Gzuuus 1y ago

Edits are just visible for amethyst users by the moment right?

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

yep

Gzuuus 1y ago

What implementation are you following? I saw that you purposed different ones.

I like the possibilities of this 👀

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

We are doing this one: https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/pull/1090

Gzuuus 1y ago

Thanks 🫡

Do you know if someone more it's implementing it?

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

Not yet. Everybody has always been so affraid of even testing it. We will see if this changes over time.

Gzuuus 1y ago

I like it, its pretty simple and straightforward, just another representation of the event without forcing a markup like EDIT: under the post. I also like the nostr:npub1jlrs53pkdfjnts29kveljul2sm0actt6n8dxrrzqcersttvcuv3qdjynqn proposal since its more wide and versatile... But i wonder what will happen if i do a kind1011 of a replaceable event 🤔

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

The kind 1011 should remain unchanged through multiple 1010s. Edits only replace the .content of the original event. They don't affect any other attached event.

Gzuuus 1y ago

A yea for sure, just first thought after read it fast... Not well thought out xD 🤦

69

Account deleted 1y ago

Not so sure about that last point. If somebody uses whatever language, that person is free to reject an edit and stick to its language. You make the “assumption” of the reason behind the language. But you could be wrong, and who are you in the context of the note?

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

Users judge each other all the time. This is just another datapoint for them to judge you. Yes, they might be wrong. But does it matter? They want what they want. And they are free to get it.

All we can hope for is that more tools can help users figure their stuff out. Edit proposals are just a more precise way to see where people trully stand.

69

Account deleted 1y ago

Then YOU should be able to see the edit if you were to chose to experience nostr that way, ask your follows what version YOU should see. I don’t have to accept an edit for you to please the other users. You can give me what I want (freedom of speech) and the “users” what they want (the right to police other people’s speech in their bubble)

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

Yep. That's exactly what was coded. Authors have the freedom of speech they want (they can choose to use edits or not) but authors have no control over how your followers will see their posts. That's their choice, their freedom.

69

Account deleted 1y ago

Ok. Got you now. Mind is a bit foggy. His rejection of the edit becomes a “data point” for the person who submitted the edit.

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

Makes sense. There will be a lot of new behaviors on this. As long as we let people express their points (either by a reply or an edit proposal), I think we are winning.

Tetsu Tamasi 1y ago

Interesting. Not for typos. For arguments. Mute button will become edit -off button.

The Beave 1y ago

I see it as a way to usher bad stuff into nostr as a whole. I can say that I'm very anti-edit, in general. The way I found out that you can't edit when I first acclimated to nostr shaped my expectations and behavior in a much more positive way. I think that is one of the reasons why nostr us so weird and so fun and so dang high SNR (signal to noise ratio).

Editing let's people hide stuff. Editing brings in the impulse to correct everything. Editing lets someone self-censor. Editing can cause a covering up.

I especially don't understand why it was done the way it was done, as it seems to have broken basic compatibility with other apps in a seemingly self-serving way. This is pretty much the primary example of why I don't like it.

NOSTR didn't need edits. NOSTR didn't need to become even more convoluted for new devs.

But hey, you do you. I'm just not gonna edit.

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

Nostr is full of editable kinds. Blog posts for instance can be edited without even showing the history of the edits. Your follow and mute lists are edited when you add and remove people. You are using edits all the time in Nostr.

The beauty of these edits is that they don't delete the history. Yes, people can do all that behavior, but you can see them doing that. And knowing they are that type of people is better than not knowing.

But yes, in the end, if you don't like it, you don't need to use it. Let's other people have their fun with it.

The Beave 1y ago

Of course it is. A list would be mostly useless unless it was editable. But, the content? That's another story, especially if the implementation breaks compatibility in a rather almost combative way.

Yes, you can obviously do that. But should you?

I certainly will leave edits to those who wish to use them, though, I still don't think this is a good move for the whole of NOSTR. Adding complexity to a pillar is the protocol is not what I consider a good thing. But, I'm also not a dev/coder so I can't really say much about it in a practical sense.

Rock on with your bad self.

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

Frankly, you can do way more damage editing lists (tags) than editing the content. That's why this version only allows you to edit the content and not the tags of the post.

The Beave 1y ago

I wouldn't know. But, cool.

I'm very sure you are sure you know what you are doing!

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

I don't know anything. I just ship stuff and observe how people use it :)

ManiMe 1y ago

nostr:npub1q6ya7kz84rfnw6yjmg5kyttuplwpauv43a9ug3cajztx4g0v48eqhtt3sh and nostr:npub1m4ny6hjqzepn4rxknuq94c2gpqzr29ufkkw7ttcxyak7v43n6vvsajc2jl and others have raised this point. It’s important to hear, and I’m not sure you have acknowledged.

Editable posts breaks nostr. If user on A client sees all versions, but users on B, C, D clients only see the first version, then nostr is broken. Users cannont have a reliable conversation anymore.

This is serious flaw in your implementation. Until … what? … all client MYST adopt editable posts?

#nostrisforked

ManiMe 1y ago

> MUST

Can someone edit that to for me?

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

No, you have to sign that edit yourself. No one can do this for you.

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

No it's not. It's a choice. If you don't want to see edits, you don't need to implement it and as a user, you don't need to use a client that does it. You would see exactly the same thing as if edits didn't exist. It's perfectly backwards compatible.

Also, posts don't look the same in all clients. That's a myth. They will never look the same. We all render different things.

ManiMe 1y ago

Dude. Posts don’t look the same, but the content SHOULD be the same.

And a user who “disables” editing in a client capable of editing … GFY. That’s not the problem case.

ALL edits are the problem, for ALL clients who don’t implement edits.

Joshua 1y ago

For clarification: if a note is edited,will the new version be pushed to all clients? Or will some clients show the original note, some show the updated note without history, and other show the current plus history?

Laeserin 1y ago

The edited note will be pushed to the relays and the various clients will display (or not display) it the way they are configured.

Laeserin 1y ago

Beave clearly meant "lists" as in "mute list" or "favorites list".

Not "tags in the json file containing a microblogging note".

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OceanSlim 1y ago

Why would the ability to edit something usher and the bad stuff? Why wouldn't the bad stuff just be said on their initial post? Bad stuff doesn't require edits. that's silly. I'm very pro edit.

The Beave 1y ago

Editing isn't so much the issue.

1. The method used in how this version of editing was implemented has forked nostr irreparably. This is without warning or consultation with other devs. This HIGHLY discourages a consistent protocol and will hamper further protocol development as it balkanizes. Nostr is too small yet to deal with that, and I am concerned this will be the end of innovation with emphasis on collaboration.

2. The issue is that there is more no cost to editing, and less with forking. The fact that up to this point what you type and hit send on a note is more or less permanent is a positive, IMO, behavioral modifier. When you know you can fix something, you will not put effort into anything. It's basically as trashy as fiat now.

3. Edits could always be done in replies, anyway. So now we have a broken ecosystem for something of very dubious value and also opened up a new attack vector. There are ways to mitigate this, but, I hesitate to propose anything since I'm not a coder.

OceanSlim 1y ago

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree here bud.

The Beave 1y ago

Good. 😊

Nice and Kind Vic 1y ago

What kind of spam does it generate? Do proposals show as notifications? Is this filterable? Only from people you follow?

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

Up to clients to decide how help remove spam edits from the way they choose to notify the user.

Nice and Kind Vic 1y ago

Yes.

Im just curious how its implemented in Amethyst today and any recommendations for others based on it.

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

We just show every incoming edit right now. Users can block or hide the users they dont want to see or select "All Follows" in the top of the Notification bar to receive only edits from people they know and trust.

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51

516add19... 1y ago

My guess is a flood of passive aggressive edits coming..

nostr:nevent1qqsflnldxn0k7v52q4kfju55uza2gs2upmpz0dxzp8wzqetmvqzzddspr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzyprqcf0xst760qet2tglytfay2e3wmvh9asdehpjztkceyh0s5r9cqcyqqqqqqg27x0rv

Leo Fernevak 1y ago

I don't see the point to be honest.

If I disagree with someone's statement I can just write a comment. This drives engagement.

When I read other people's thoughts I want to hear *their* voice.

If they fatfingered a couple of words on the phone or misspelled a word or had an editing accident where the grammar ended up a bit off doesn't really matter that much.

There are many self-professed 'experts' that have spoken out against Covid critics and vaccine skeptics in the past few years. They can make their statements in their own posts. No need to encourage them to invade other people's posts.

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

If they accept an edit, it is their voice.

Leo Fernevak 1y ago

I haven't updated to the new Amethyst so I have not seen what the UI for this looks like, but you alluded to that others could see the edit even if it is not accepted?

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

No, your followers will only see edits coming from you.

You receive notifications when other people edit your post. From there you can "accept" the edit, which essentilly creates a new edit on your name. That edit then becomes available to your followers.

Leo Fernevak 1y ago

Ah, I see. Sounds reasonable.

Sai 1y ago

I haven’t had time yet to check it out on android. But I’ll get you some feedback and ideas.

VictorieeMan 1y ago

people can also fork and improve the expression of a way to say something, also an interesting dynamic. Say that to rude words was used to formulate something really useful, then someone seeing the useful message could fork and reforumalte to move the point across to more people, who otherwise would have been distracted by the rude words.

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

Yeah, I think the Fork is more difficult to code right but it's a more powerful tool. I don't think we got that right yet.

VictorieeMan 1y ago

let's continue testing and iterating ^^

Laeserin 1y ago

Penis, you asshole.

Go fork yourself.

2c

puddintaine2 1y ago

😝😝😝😂🤣👍

someone 1y ago

A lot of news companies first 'do harm' and then revise. I generally don't like the editing idea. But editing can be done in 30 seconds maybe. Like an AI could help with typo's.

Other than that, "hitting quickly and then claiming you didn't do it" may be an abuse of the feature.

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

Or, because edits are open for everyone to see on relays, people can start assembling a pattern of intention and call these people out with real and easily parseable data. :)

Lighthouse 1y ago

I get editing but I still don't get forking

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

Yep, I don't think we got forking right yet. It's a more powerful tool, but it might not have been correctly implemented. :(

VictorieeMan 1y ago

"Yep, I don't think we got forking right yet. It's a more powerful tool, but it might not have been correctly implemented. :( "

nostr:npub1gcxzte5zlkncx26j68ez60fzkvtkm9e0vrwdcvsjakxf9mu9qewqlfnj5z

Is there more going on in the backend than seen in the app? Where in the repo can I take a look at the forking process?

Maybe we want to store some backtracking data, like a git tree to the fork history of a note?

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

just a test.

n0>1 1y ago

No edits, EVER!

burns 1y ago

Here’s a test:

Raise your hand if you love getting your typos quickly fixed by somebody else who can just write better.

no₿ody™ 🧱 1y ago

From the other side, i prefer to reply to with a typo *correction, repost their note, and add #typostr

Tetsu Tamasi 1y ago

LOOOOL, FUCK THAT CUNT 😂

Tetsu Tamasi 1y ago

unless you write an essay you either dont care about typos or give zero fucks about them, imagine spending time writing notes and some cunt comes

d7

Nobody 1y ago

💯💯💯 Will happen and will kill the mood. That's no way to have a real discussion... It will devolve into a form of spammy censorship.

RealJohnDoe 1y ago

They may also be creating a new grammatical reality. Like, Slam Dunk..😊

https://youtu.be/SB-Qk7pVMsM?si=fhX9aRy-4XDGtE9i

Azz 1y ago

Preferable to a comment highlighting your error

burns 1y ago

Don’t touch my notes.

Chris Liss 1y ago

Think this would be a big mistake. No one is more expert in what I’m trying to say than I am. They might have some narrow technical expertise in the topic about which I’m posting, but they would only be guessing as to why I’m saying it or what I really mean.

Hard pass — I don’t want busybodies cleaning up my posts for people who follow me, even if some of them would prefer it. If you don’t like them, unfollow.

Last thing I want is my name on some sanitized posts from busybodies that no longer reflect my intent.

Seriously would go back to Twitter, and wait until someone re-constituted nostr to what we have now.

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

Why are you saying "your name on posts"? No one can publish edits on your name. You control everything.

Chris Liss 1y ago

sounded like users could choose to view the edited ones, even if you reject them.

https://nostrcheck.me/media/134743ca8ad0203b3657c20a6869e64f160ce48ae6388dc1f5ca67f346019ee7/fb8410e7e8e1818c3d15ee081fedab262142cbcd138c379538e7d2a8231c62b6.webp

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

If a client implements the edit spec, they users can only see your changes.

Now, edits are public. So, if you design a client, you can go and browse all proposals made to each post by each editor. These changes are not using your keys, though. So, they wouldn't be yours.

Chris Liss 1y ago

right, but sounds like people could suggest ways to sanitize your posts to what they’d prefer them to be, and then other people could (if the client allows) view only the sanitized version of your posts (unsigned by you, but with your avatar/bio/etc) as though you posted it that way.

Am I misunderstanding?

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

They can suggest anything, but it will show with their pictures/profiles until you approve that and create a new event signed by you.

Chris Liss 1y ago

So it's like a community note on Twitter that you can incorporate into the original post only if you so choose, and there’s no way to substitute the suggested version for the original unless the poster himself green-lights it?

Or followers can see the busy-bodied version if they select that view, but that version will have the profile-pictures of the busybodies attached to the note, so it would be impossible to mistake it as authored by the OP?

Hazey 1y ago

A client can't show an edit not signed by OP as coming from OP.

Chris Liss 1y ago

I suppose people can build whatever they want and choose to view whatever they want, but then I think you’d have a demand for clients that allow for blocking other clients that allow the unsigned sanitized version of posts to be used in a feed. (If I’m understanding this correctly.)

Hazey 1y ago

If edits that aren't signed by OP show up in a feed, they are clearly not the OP's. Just like a quote boost is not. There is no ambiguity.

Chris Liss 1y ago

Yeah, but the quote boost has the original unedited post. This would not. So people would have no way of knowing at a glance the difference between an edited post solely with typos removed and one with the intent changed. They would know it was edited (and not signed off on), but not why or how in the sanitized version.

You kind of see this is corporate media now, omitting context and delivering the sanitized feed to its terrified viewers.

Hazey 1y ago

Yes there are people who will not believe their own eyes, until it has been repackaged and sold to them on MSNBC. But whereas the news will pawn off their narratives as truth, an unendorsed edit can never make such a claim.

Chris Liss 1y ago

We’ll see — I see the corporate media as basically making unendorsed edits and credulous partisans thinking it’s 100 percent true.

Good for nostr:npub1gcxzte5zlkncx26j68ez60fzkvtkm9e0vrwdcvsjakxf9mu9qewqlfnj5z to consider something new that hasn’t really been done on legacy platforms, but I’m still a hard pass on this one.

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

Correct.

RealJohnDoe 1y ago

WORD!..💎💜🧡🦅🗽😊🦍

Doog 1y ago

Intentionally leaving in typos is a great tool to identify midwits so you can mute them.

nostr:note1nl876dxldueg5ptvn9effc9653q4crkzy76vyzwuypjhkcqyy6mqydj9hv

unknown 1y ago

Feels like can/will be used as a way for people to harass if the don’t like your opinion about something. I might just be going to the negative side here, but feels like it will be abused rather than help encourage discourse. I can think of other ways it could be useful with regard to reviewing documents or other such things. But in context of notes (tweet type messages) I think it’s not a net positive.

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

But I can harass you with simply replies. Or any other post that goes straight into your Notifications. Edits don't change that. People that want to harass you don't need edits for that.

And you can always block people that are sending the edits and then you won't see them anymore, or select All Follows in the Notification bar to hide everything from random keys.

unknown 1y ago

You’re not wrong. I’m just not seeing the added value for posts right now. My mind could be changed, but right now it just feels like a hassle getting submissions for something that I’m posting as my thought or what I want to convey. For me it feels like it would be the passive aggressive way for people to say “no, your wrong” and I’m going to prove it by changing your wrong think. Sure they can do that in the comments and reply’s. But that’s what feels like a conversation.

Vitor Pamplona 1y ago

That's fair. But they can still choose to do it in the reply. If they are doing it over Edits, they might be crossing the line and I think it is fair game to block them.

unknown 1y ago

I love seeing how quickly all y’all devs are iterating here. Keep the ideas flowing and keep hitting that commit button! 🤘🤘

IntuitiveGuy☯️ 1y ago

I like hownyou are building different.. 🤯

Joshua 1y ago

There is definitely a use case for "announcement"-type notes. It would be apparent if someone was trying to harass via edits to notes and replies which are part of a conversation. And the fact that not all clients support edits should dissuade trolls because the target may not even be aware of the attempted troll. The incentives don't align to support trolling, IMO.

The Beave 1y ago

Yet.