OK, past few days were quite wild. I am currenly in El Salvador because I was attending the Adopting Bitcoin conference. My very limited internet connection here made it quite difficult to engage, I mostly just got push notifications. Hereby I want to take the opportunity to tell the story from my side.

TL;DR: We were just having fun, we thought it was okay. Apperently it's not and nvk is is so upset that he felt he had to file a GitHub takedown request. I feel that's not how bitcoiners behave.

### How it started

I have been working on the #BTClock since April '23. It started of some sort of bet where I challenged myself to make a BTC ticker as cheap as possible. I just ordered seven eInk displays on AliExpress with the intention of showing information related to bitcoin using an ESP32.

Why seven? Because the words BITCOIN and SATOSHI both consist of seven letters and connecting more screens to the ESP32 did not seem possible without adding I/O-port expanders.

Yes. The idea was inspired (among other projects) by Blockclock, which also uses eInk displays. I don't own one, so I couldn't "reverse engineer" or use any direct inspiration of it but the way you can combine multiple eInk displays to display information in an useful way is very limited.

After getting the schematic right. I created a 3D printable case for it (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6009628) and named it BTClock after someone's idea in the Dutch Noderunners community. Since it consists of seven characters I thought it's the perfect name since it fits the seven displays too.

nostr:note19zp3c8lsm4s5lwvuscu4dll3clkzvajrwthvqed5q7s83mazrr2swc6mqe

### May 2023

This allows you to create a BTClock for ±70 euro (if you own a 3D printer).

I shared the progress of the project in the MakerBits telegram group. Ben Arc checked with nvk how he felt about it, and I have seen his responsse where he replied with that he felt honored and that I should go ahead. In hindsight, I should've asked Ben to forward this to me but I wouldn't expect this to "haunt" me like it did last week.

After sharing the very spaghetti-y schematic in some Telegram groups, someone replied that he was working on making an actual PCB out of it. After some DM'ing back and forth we got our first PCB prototype that needed some work. After 4 iterations we finally got it how we wanted and were able to sell DIY kits. The PCB is real artwork, so we wanted to show it off. Therefore we added a acrylic backplate to be able to protect it while still able to see the proof-of-work by Madbo, the PCB artwork designer. We used a lot of through hole components to make it accesible for anyone who has a soldering iron.

### August 2023

In August 2023 we finally got the kits ready, while the initial plan was to only sell the DIY kit within the Dutch Noderunners community, I brought smoe with me to Baltic Honeybadger '23 as well, where it proved to be pretty succesful while sitting next to Ben in the chilling lounge.

I got a lot of encouraging and positive remarks about the project, including Daniel Prince (@princeysov) who tweeted about this (https://x.com/Princey21M/status/1698257536418267624).

It appeared that this tweet firstly poked the lion, since nvk sent some of his coinkite employees to me after this tweet, a group of 4 people asked a lot of questions while filming me (without my consent, I didn't realize this when they were asking it but when they walked away it was clear to see the iPhone was recording video).

Not a lot later, nvk sent out a tweet which was clearly about the BTClock project without explicitly mentioning the name (https://x.com/nvk/status/1698423362819682400)

However, in my opinion this did still fit the message I read he wrote to Ben that he was more flattered than upset. It was only then when I learned about how he reacted to Foundation Passport and how he behaves regarding the SeedSigner project.

### March 2024

During Bitcoin Atlantis in March 2024, there was a nice space for the MakerBits projects including the BTClock, the software by this time has many improvements, including real-time new block notifications by utilizing the Mempool.space Websocket API. Since the hardware is also open source, many alternative faceplates are available including a stainless steel one and a completely white one. Multiple people witnessed nvk walking passed the maker space while looking at me, but he did not engage or whatsoever. I would expect if he would take offense by the product, he would've approached me by now but he didn't. He does know who I am though, both in real-life and I'm posting enough on my social media accounts (Nostr and Xitter) to find me there as well.

### Fast forward to November 2024

A lot has happened in the development of the BTClock, among other things I added a BitAxe integration and Nostr Zap Notifications to the software and we managed to add frontlight to the eInk displays which I really think sets the BTClock apart from other "tickers" like the Blockclock mini.

The Blockclock mini hasn't had any updates for two years (since October 3rd, 2022) which seems to be like the Blockclick mini can be considered end-of-life.

I therefore was very suprised that when I woke up on November 14th, I received an e-mail that the BTClock GitHub organization was flagged because of alleged trademark infringement of the BTClock.

This was according to a report by Coinkite to GitHub. The letter I shared in the MakerBits Telegram group was ONLY sent to GitHub, not to me (although I haven't been home for a while so I don't know something is waiting in my physical mailbox).

Luckily git is decentralized version control and there are already mirrors of the hardware and software source available. Also GitHub allows me to appeal but haven't taken the chance to do so.

Although I do understand that the concept of trademarks exists for a reason, I feel this a very cowardly move and certainly not something that I would expect from fellow bitcoiners. Just sending me a DM on Nostr, X or Telegram is the least I would expect. I don't mean to offend or infringe, and would be happy to discuss options if open to it. Either in DM or out in the open.

I'm all about transparency so nostr:npub1az9xj85cmxv8e9j9y80lvqp97crsqdu2fpu3srwthd99qfu9qsgstam8y8 here is my invitation to discuss this out in the open. I'm sorry that we seem to upset you. what is it that bothers you, can we find a way to let the projects co-exist? Or even see if the BTClock software can adapted to your Blockclock mini hardware.

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Discussion

Your project is indeed unique and welcome. An open source project is not free to produce, develop, lead, work with contributors, etc. and I honestly don't see how the two products compare other than in looks.

You put in work and you should be rewarded. I hope that NVK has only a specific issue (maybe the name) and that this can be addressed sensibly.

It's a trademark issue, not a code or github issue. Trademark is garbage type of law. I'm running a company not a foss project. Even foss projects have trademarks they defend. Because there is no choice, defend or lose.

The drama due to people utter ignorance about trademark and is mostly generated and amplified by the scumbags from foundation and seed signer guy.

I don't know this guy, or was ever contacted by him. The legal trademark team has autonomy and go over all of our tradfemarks, he was just one issue.

If he ever contacted me, I would have encouraged him to create something new and different with his skills, but that's just my way of being. I see skills wasted not created something actually new. Heck he didn't even bother changing the display aspect ratio.

Because this is a legal mater i can't get into details or argue online.

You have dozens of mutual friends. It's basic decency to contact someone before taking legal action. Especially if all you demand is a name change and maybe a redesign.

Outsourcing stuff is good, but your legal department works on your behalf. So their behavior reflects on you.

Why didn't he reach out and ask if it was ok? The story is not quite that simple.

That is a complaint you could have raised while contacting him, before taking legal action.

More generally it's never a good idea to build up frustration about someone or something and waiting for it to explode.

(not something I pretend to be great at either)

Because this whole thing might hurt you more than him

I think this move has bring more harm then good to your trademark.

But that's just my way of thinking.

I like both projects/products and have one of each for different uses, the BlockClock name or idea isn't registered as a protected trademark/name here in NL-BE-LUX.

Imagine supporting this guy and his company after what this trademark move... yikes.

NGMI

The legal team has autonomy?

why am I not surprised your response avoids any responsibility and blames seed signer and foundation?

put on your big boy pants and admit you don't have a problem using state violence to protect your interests

"The drama due to people utter ignorance about trademark and is mostly generated and amplified by the scumbags from foundation and seed signer guy. "

That is enough to tell me all I need about your "way of being".

nvk is microsoft

BTCLOCK is the better version IMO. it’s clear you have done some awesome work on this project and pushed the idea much further than BlockClock– and ‘inspired by’ does in no way constitute trademark infringement. See: transformative use. It’s a cowardly move by nostr:npub1az9xj85cmxv8e9j9y80lvqp97crsqdu2fpu3srwthd99qfu9qsgstam8y8 to react in this way. Definitely does not embrace the ethos of Bitcoin and FOSS development. Keep pushing 💪

someone should trademark the COCKBLOCK

FINO

Coinkite sure appears to be

Foss In Name Only

Not even FOSS, just Source Viewable.

Everyone is allowed to choose their own license for their work, but everyone is also allowed to choose what licenses they want their purchases to be under. I will nevwr buy another coinkite thing, sadly...

Blockclock is closed source AFAIK

Ok! I was thinking of the coldcard. When they closed the code on that is when I gave up on them...

Coinkite website says many of the products are open source. Not the coldcard or blockclock? Wonder which ones are?

Coldcard is “source available” not open source (you can’t use it for “commercial purposes”)

NVK blind spot

He doesn't know his customers are loyal to #Bitcoin's Open Source Ethos, not Him or Coinkite

Great to read your side of the story! Hope your project will grow and develop even more in the future!! ⚡️⚡️💪🏻

Can’t get used to the awesomeness of this! 🤩🤩

Thanks nostr:npub160u5kdf4g2nr993qvteuj9rr35x7awny4u0esrvnjplwrvlq6nus90as4t! ⚡️

#Nostr #BTClock

neither can I! 😅

Can I get one?

can't eait to get mine.....

How did you get zaps working? I'm confused by my pubkey not starting with npub. Where do I find it then?

Are using Primal? Normally you can find it in your profile. This is your npub:

npub1qyxlpj2gl6dt2nfvkl4yyrl6pr2hjkycrdh2dr5r42n7ktwn7pdqrdmu7u

At the bottom

Hope you got it to work! 💪🏻

It does not use your npub. I found the key I used in my amber logs. I've never seen it report a zap, so that may still be wrong but it accepted the format.

It may also be that I'm a smaller account that doesn't get the volume of zaps of the bigger accounts so it just never announced one while I was in front of it.

Hmmm…that’s strange. Maybe try to zap yourself to test it? Bevause it also could be due to the relay you have set up within the gui…

Thanks for posting this and thank you for being such an awesome builder. I truly hope you continue your great work here and would love to buy a clock direct from you when/if you have them available.

Trademark a clock!? WTF?!

Some proof of work of the fist PCB design of #BTClock and some pictures along the way.

First PCB Design, unfortunately it didn't work 😞 (Jun-2023)

The first working prototype BTClock (Jun-2023)

One of the fist kits we sold (Aug-2023)

Our fist tests with our spacial made E-Papers with front light (Dec-2023)

(Dec-2023 / Jan-2024)

(Dec-2023 / Jan-2024)

Fast forward:

Full redesign for Frontlight support and also move to Full SMD instead of "through hole" components (Jun-2024)

What happens when the clock hits $100K?

You can customize how that turns out unlike the proprietary Coinkite BLOCKCLOCK

Dropping the USD/BTC ticker, or showing as $100K, so on

It will look like this:

Beautiful

Love the transparency. No reason this could not be worked out. Get it done. I have faith. 🤝 🙏 🙇‍♂️

it was great to meet you outside at the event

It’s a clock.. how does one stop another from making a clock!

I find it very funny how some people love talking about freedom and free markets but then they trademark a clock!

😱

I guess funny is a sarcastic word in this context 😂. But yeah, 💯

you copied someone else’s work and targeted them for having an expensive product.

stop crying and build something that’s original. language and framing above sound like a 5 year old tattletail

good point

Shit take tbh. As an “artist” I’d expect someone like you would understand the power of transformative use and its importance in advancing innovation and creativity.

It is not a shit take. 1000’s of clocks that aren’t rolex blatant copies.

Because its hard with a clock?! Do a web image search on clock. All the competitor clocks look so similar. But hey, innovation is inspiration by some other insights. For me it's the attitude from Bitcoiners and Nostr. I thought most are free open source and V4V minded. Some don't. Shit happens.

Blancpain surely wasn't very happy with Rolex either 🤷‍♂️

Hahaha damn, there’s always a source. What’s the story here 😁

They invented rotating diving bezels in the same year as Rolex, 1953 🤠🤙 there are "discussions" who was first

who made who

They are not blatant copies, they are homages. 😌 I don't see Rolex crying.

same visuals with different takes, great minds think alike...

and rolex and the rest are always crying

Who cares if he copied it. If it works similar and is 10 times cheaper... Thats what competition is about.

i like this reply, but it’s a copy not an original design. so make something cheaper sure, but why not be original while doing it?

Because the original is a substandard and overpriced product. Btclock is so much better!

I think they should be original too. But should you use legal system to force them into it? No...

Should any company that competes with an incumbent to provide a better and/or cheaper product be shut down? Doesn't sound like the free market to me.

Some leftist style projection going on calling people commies for participating in the free market.

Yeah, great argument for pretending to be ancap and then using state heavies to clamp down on the free market! 😂

i figured it out, ya'll defenders can't tell the difference between counterfeiting and recreation. i get it, not worth engaging more

Oh don’t get your panties in a twist, you weren’t engaging anyway, just doing the “I’m an influencer so I know best” thing!

It is not counterfeiting, there is no intent to decieve.

Hope all the free gizmos from Coinkite are worth it!

i’m sorry you’re having a hard time, i hope things get better for you 🥂

Is the hardware trademarked or the code?

Nothing is trademarked, especially not in Europe. This is just another dick move that will work to btclock's advantage.

Law is retarded, I mean subjective, which means the validity of your position depends on the opinion of your audience.

So trademark infringement depends on the likelihood ofconfusionn wrt the source of the goods (who sold the goods)

They consider various factors but my fav factor for noninfringement here is the degree of purchaser care.

Anyone dropping $400 on a CLOCK (i mean wtf, seriously?) is bound to exercise more care than making a regular purchase.

They'll exercise more care and realize that BTClock and blockclock are different/vendors.

Thank you for reading my law school essay

🫡

Looking forward to building mine. Great work.

Cuck move from NVK

nostr:npub1rxysxnjkhrmqd3ey73dp9n5y5yvyzcs64acc9g0k2epcpwwyya4spvhnp8 do you have a ‘how to’ for this? Would be a fun build.

Wow, Djuri that is such a well written post!! A clear and precise explanation! This is behaviour that should have been left behind on the bullies playground at the Fiat schoolyard.

There are proper ways for @NVK to communicate with other people who are genuine builders in the Bitcoin-only community, and that's NOT it!

That's not the Bitcoin ethos, that's Fiat/BIS ethos.

Interesting to note that the coinkite Block lock, has not been updated in 2 YEARS!

And the 2 products could not _possibly_ be confused!!

#BitCoinEthosNotFiatEthos

nostr:nevent1qqst22qclvkw7p8fqhcukrcc6m8unjh0ppp72t9heq8gf89eeu82qagpzdmhxue69uhhwmm59e6hg7r09ehkuef0qgst2yn6pr8nxctzwjqq5su83qdflx8qfwwrwytwjt09y5zfsc6uggsrqsqqqqqplemg8m

Let’s hear nostr:npub1az9xj85cmxv8e9j9y80lvqp97crsqdu2fpu3srwthd99qfu9qsgstam8y8 ‘s response before we assume his intent or motives.

Nobody really cares. This is the publicity btclock needed to go mainstream! 😂 🤣

Fair enough

In the Bitcoin industry, imitation is often seen as a catalyst for innovation, pushing companies to enhance their products.

However, my experience with Coinkite's customer service has left me hesitant to engage with them further. Their abrupt discontinuation of their costly payment terminals, which I had owned for less than four months, was disappointing, especially as they failed to honor their commitment to provide a discount voucher.

The sector merits a higher standard of service and integrity. Consequently, I commend nostr:nprofile1qqst2yn6pr8nxctzwjqq5su83qdflx8qfwwrwytwjt09y5zfsc6uggspypmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0v3jhyatwdejhyuewdejhgam0wf4j7qgmwaehxw309ahx7um5wgh8xct5dphkzunyv4ezucm0d5hszymhwden5te0danxvcmgv95kutnsw43z7f2mgdy's recent initiative. While I have not previously bought a btclock, this decision has certainly piqued my interest in making a purchase.

Coinkite taking down the GitHub repository of a free and open-source BTClock project is exactly why we need a GitHub alternative on Nostr. Fuck NVK, fuck Coinkite, and fuck those who support them.

nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzpdgj0gyv7vmpvf6gqzjrs7yp48ucup9ecdc3d6fdu5jsfxrrt3pzqythwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnwdaehgu3wvfskuep0qqst22qclvkw7p8fqhcukrcc6m8unjh0ppp72t9heq8gf89eeu82qagsz3vy4

When can I buy a couple?

www.btclock.store check after the weekend for the bamboo version

nostr:note1f747qmdumf6fmhfxjksthyhw3nqn879vtzqz0lj7as8ss7xuk9eqn2d68e

Le me see if I understand this. As a community this is "fix the money and argue about clocks". May need a little more time with great minds working on part 1 for now

so where to buy one (with international shipping)?

https://www.btclock.store, check after the weekend for the bamboo version

If you are US-based there is also https://btc-hardware-solutions.square.site/

nostr:note1f747qmdumf6fmhfxjksthyhw3nqn879vtzqz0lj7as8ss7xuk9eqn2d68e

Europe

Where is it possible to buy the one with front light? Or is it not possible because you’re not in the Netherlands at the moment? 🤞🏻

https://btclock.store/ limited stock though

Thanks man! I just ordered one! ⚡️🙏🏻⚡️

And now I want one!

Djuri's clocks are awesome. And they get frequent updates! Not every 2 years....

Also, it's a clock. It tells the time in Block height.

People really like to misunderstand the “ethos” of open source as some hippy utopia ideal. You clearly ripped off the block clock, which may not have been your intention but is clear nonetheless. Having legal action against you is purely the business protecting itself and if the situations/timelines were reversed, you’d be doing the same, or you’re dumb (clearly not given the proof of work).

Sounds like you started a competition and then got butt hurt when your competition fought back.

I use to love nostr and now it feels like I just come online to a bunch of whiney bitches complaining.

@nvk your clock is too expensive.

We talking about a basic clock?! Copyright is a fiat concept anyway. You can't own ideas.

Ripping of a clock. If Christiaan Huygens would know about this...

you dont understand open source.

also

"intellectual property" is a legal fiction enforced by state violence

the clock is expensive because they spend so much on lawyers

LOL!!!

Proceeds to wine and bitch :PepeLaugh: :PepeLaugh: :PepeLaugh:

Their support for their own BlockClock is not great either, as they refuse to answer my question about whether the BlockClock can display a $100,000 Bitcoin price due to the limited number of digits on the clock.

I've wondered that too. I guess we'll find out soon enough 😉

I wonder the same for what happens when block height reaches 1,000,000 blocks - both BlockClock and BTClock would need an update to display it, as it currently seems.

Thought of this, for the #BTClock it’s either one of these options for the price. Also there are expansion ports available so you can connect multiple clocks 😁

This story made me what to buy one of yours.

Keep moving forward 🫡

Someone just doesn’t like open source projects. He’s been bashing seedsigner for years, too. He hates that there are open source options in the bitcoin space. Not sure how you can trademark a clock? I don’t see Rolex getting pissed as Casio for making a way to tell time. They are two different products and different buyers and different experiences. No different here. If you want the closed source expensive experience go buy that one. If you want the open source dyi version with endless options and ways to customize go for this!

I think SeedSigner is criticised because it doesn't have a secure element, and because it uses a Raspberry Pi which is not really Open Source itself (the hardware).

I would use SeedSigner as a learning device and a HW with secure element for big amounts. However, Coldcards seem to break pretty fast.

Nothing wrong with building something equally similar in features but less expensive for the customer. Especially in the decentralized space such as this #lfg 🎉

i was at Atlantis and i saw this stuff and i never heard about anyone talking trash about it

something shady going on behind this i'm sure

I wanna build one!

You can get the DIY kits at https://btclock.store/

Need some tissues for your tears?

meanwhile NVK is blaming passport and saying he has no responsibility

and you think Djuri is whining 🙄

Let me get you some tissues too....

dumb.

really dumb.

coinkite stuff is too expensive. cypherpunks write code, they don't file complaints to create regulatory moats. bitcoin is about merit.

I want to buy one as well!

You can find them at https://btclock.store/ or https://btc-hardware-solutions.square.site/ if you are US-based

Is it possible to purchase these kits from outside US and Europe?

Yes but for some countries I haven’t calculated shipping costs yet. Can you try if check out works for you? (It should show the costs before needing to pay), and if not, send me an DM with your country so I can check the cheapest option :)

Thanks. Was able to select my country at checkout (it did not show up under estimate shipping) but it say its cant calculate shipping. Sent you a DM.

instead of fucking the banksters, we are fucking each others...

We? Luckily it's only NVK and two or three others.

Peak fiat mentality IMO

While I sympathize with the argument that trademark law requires enforcement, Blockclock is such a generic name that a trademark should have never been issued. Equally, displaying Bitcoin data like block height on a screen is an obvious idea that certainly doesn't deserve protection.

Notably, the term "btcclock" was coined 7 years ago by rcassata, for essentially the same idea: https://github.com/eternitywall/btcclock

There's nothing wrong with another project choosing to use that generic name for yet another implementation of the same idea. Coinkite should do the right thing here and withdraw their takedown.

nostr:nevent1qqst22qclvkw7p8fqhcukrcc6m8unjh0ppp72t9heq8gf89eeu82qagpr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmp0qgst2yn6pr8nxctzwjqq5su83qdflx8qfwwrwytwjt09y5zfsc6uggsrqsqqqqqp2zhuww

Djuri! What a wild story brother and what a pleasure to meet you in meatspace. Good luck with this wild ride.

Everything trends to 0 against BTC

There is no such a thing as intellectual property, only intellectual monopoly granted my the state.

Ideas are not limited, if one has an idea the other will not, suddenly be incapable of having the same idea.

So, I don't see any problem with your BTClock whatsoever

supposedly the bullshit relates to trademark but that's got nothing to do with copyright

I'll never buy a product from cuntkite

HFSP

Open Source Everything. You are doing great work on that project and I learned a lot from you! If I want to do it myself I can’t do it with a closed product like Bitcoin Clock. Happy to have you in the community!

We stand with you, brother! ⚡️

+ I can't trust those who are guided by mosCow time and don't see this as a problem

streisand effect in full force now. solid explanation. nostr:npub1az9xj85cmxv8e9j9y80lvqp97crsqdu2fpu3srwthd99qfu9qsgstam8y8 I get that trademarks are a "use it or lose it" situation, but this seems like a stretch for the mark itself. of course the design is similar but it's not a mark issue not a patent issue.

fuck that whiner where do i buy one of these 'illegal' clocks

Firmware seems 4 O 4

Yeah that's because of the GitHub takedown 😭 mirror can be found at https://git.rof.tools/mirrors/btclock_v3/releases or you can compile the firmware yourself from the git repo

Your argument is solid. But nvk is a self absorbed dickhead who has seduced several "influencers".

If he does the right thing I'll eat my shoe.

No permission is needed to write code, build, etc.

How / where can I support your project / buy a kit?

I saw your device at BHB couple of years back, it was cool and an obvious project of passion.

You can buy a kit at www.btclock.store