As both a tahini lover and seed oil disrespectooor, this is a question I've thought about more than I care to admit.

imo, the tentative answer is somewhere in the middle. With the caveat that I'm not a molecular biologist and I could change my view.

Some of the worst aspects of seed oils in modern processed foods are that they are produced with extremely high heat in an industrial process that damages them, they literally turn rancid, and then various de-odorizing chemicals are used to mask that. There's a million red flags there. And they're in everything. I went down this research rabbit hole like 15 years ago, and then tested various diets on my own body with blood results and such.

Tahini is a more traditional food, able to be made with low-tech and lower-heat methods. Blended up sesame seeds is likely not the worst thing to eat on occasion.

It's kind of like how when people who are too sensitive to eat American bread go to Europe and can eat their bread without obvious consequences. Their breads are lot less acutely bad. They're probably nowhere near an "optimal performance" diet, but there's some damage control there. Same thing for like "Einkorn wheat" and stuff.

I went through a big ketogenic phase, and then seasonal ketogenic, etc. That's kind of where I'm at now: seasonal. I eat tahini only when in Egypt. It's so good, including with Egyptian bread which I otherwise try to minimize, and rather than having all our family meals have to revolve around me, I just adapt to the local diet, eat the parts I love, and then when I want to be more strict, I do it on my own time.

My rule for diets is to optimize them up until they cause stress. Once they cause stress, they start offsetting the good aspects.

And for me, dipping some Egyptian bread into some Egyptian tahini, is worth it on occasion.

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I’m lucky as I am not a fan of tahini. Ruined a few recipes trying to incorporate it.

Cold pressed or not, it doesn’t matter? We renounce all seed oils?

Yes to all this, and also, cold pressed oils that have been traditionally used for thousands of years are really different to industrially refined/sanitized/overheated oils that often were never eaten in all of human history until recently

People have been extracting sesame oil for a long, long time. it's not a hypernovel, industrial era food.

I think we need a tahini exemption

Seems like there are omega 6 in tahini/sesame seed oils. The problem with the bad seed oils is that they are in all processed foods and we end up over consuming them, if not conscious about it. I'm guessing people here are not eating hummus like 3x per day. So I say keep going. It's effing delicious.

My grandmother used to say, ā€˜everything, in moderation’. My mom said it too. She added ā€˜ everything God made, eat. Everything man made, avoid.’ Two simple reminders to not make things complicated, just eat basic foods, whole foods and not too much of any one thing.

PolyUnsaturated Fatty Acids (PUFA) are unstable and damage your mitochondria as well as cause oxidative stress.

It's not that seed oils are bad universally, it's just that they usually contain high amounts of unstable PUFA. Monounsaturated Fatty Acids are reasonably stable & Saturated Fatty Acids (SFA) actually help stabilise PUFA.

The amount/volume you're consuming matters as does the presence of SFAs (in the meal).

Tahini is used for flavouring (generally not eaten in large amounts) and has 2.6g of PUFA for every 1g SFA. It's not great but not something to worry about. Worry about the fats in deep fried goodies, mayonnaise & creamy sauces.

Palm kernel oil is another seed oil which I don't consider harmful. It has 1g PUFA to every 5.1g SFA. It's the main fat used in SE Asia because it's easily produced & refined. Many cheaply made chips are made with palm oil & is so much less harmful than soy/sunflower/canola oil.

I've been working to heal my digestive system for a long time and have worked with a couple of ayurvedic doctors and an acupuncturist to get to a better place, after western doctors got me nowhere and did much more harm than good.

I've recently started easing my self-imposed restrictions somewhat, after a 10 year extremely restrictive diet, for a similar reason as you describe. It got to the point where the restrictions became counter-productive.

For example, an acupuncturist I've been seeing for a while kept warning me I was burning out my energy because the vegetarian diet wasn't enough to sustain my high energy needs as an endurance athlete, among other energy reqs ( I tend to push pretty hard in most aspects of life.) Sure enough, last winter I got sicker than I had been for as long as I could remember. I was out of gas.

Something else that your comment about eating tahini in Egypt reminded me of was reading that one reason digestive issues have become so prevalent is that western diets have such a wide variety of foods available to them, the digestive system can't keep up. (It also doesn't help that much of the wheat in the US is treated with RoundUp).

The seed oil mention makes sense too, as I've been trained early on to throw out any oil that begins to burn, e.g. ghee, olive oil, etc. Also cooking with honey is a no-go.

Anyway, thanks for the post and the space to expand some thinking along these lines.

To me, tahini is as much a seed oil as peanut butter is (I mean real peanut butter - just ground up peanuts). I wouldn’t expect unrefined, natural oils to cause a problem in one’s diet.

TLDR: unhealthy things taste good.

It's ok to eat unhealthy things in moderation.

No need to overcomplicate.

Jeez, Lyn why you gotta be so balanced and rational?!

I haven't been following the seed oil discussion much, but I understand now that almost all seed oils are heavily tampered with... Can we conclude the only safe/healthy vegetable oils are the ones that are mechnically pressed, unheated, and not mixed with chemical agents to maximize yield? And the only vegetable oil that fits this definition would be cold-pressed (extra) virgin olive oil?

Have been trying coconut oil for cooking, make everything sweeter imo.

Tahini is delicious. As is toasted sesame oil. I think you can enjoy these as flavors and that’s very different than using them as a base cooking oil. I put a squirt of toasted sesame oil in my omelette and it imparts a bacon like flavor. So good.

I appreciate this answer. Residing primarily in the US (for now), I have been on a solid ketogenic diet for the past year. In the last 6 months, I've been following research on how the body and brain process seed oils, beyond just the issues of seed oil industrial production. It seems there's an issue with quantity (our early ancestors would never have ingested the amounts of oil from seeds, even in one sitting, that we currently commonly consume) and an issue with the type of long chain fatty acid that makes up seed oils (it takes a lot of inefficient work for cells to break it down for energy, particularly in the brain, and leaving the high amounts of oxidative stress.) But I'm not sure if tahini strictly falls into this category. For myself, I'll look into it.

Here's an interesting interview that includes a discussion on this research by Dr. Georgia Ede. Seed oil discussion begins at 10:05, and the specifics on oxidative stress begin at 12:45. I think the entire segment on seed oils is 5 minutes in total:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=koh9WpXZNOg

With tahini …. It REALLY depends on the brand- best is home made - takes time - low time preference