Nostr Web Client

I’m fed up with the hypocrisy surrounding the Web of Trust in Nostr. It’s clear that this model is just a way for a select few to maintain control and push their agendas. Instead of fostering a truly decentralized environment, it creates a system where only the voices of influencers and their friends matter.

This isn’t about building a fair community, it’s about leveraging connections and manipulating trust. The conflicts of interest are glaring, and it’s disheartening to see how easily some people are swayed by popularity rather than substance.

Im here to call out this nonsense. A Proof of Work approach would dismantle this elitist structure and ensure that everyone has a fair shot, and spam doesnt go up.

Than with just a setting in the client choosing what difficulty of POW the user wants to see notes.

Nostrudel already implements a version of this, and all clients should do the same!

Fuck the influencers and they shaddy agendas, we can see clearly what you are doing!

It’s time to reject systems that prioritize influence over merit. Let’s demand a network that values genuine contributions and holds everyone accountable.

Enough with the favoritism and elitism, let’s build something that truly represents freedom and equality for all, not only for some!

Web of trust = Ethereum

Proof of Work = Bitcoin

#nostr

#grownostr

#bitcoin

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Discussion

Prisoner24601 5mo ago

I'm not an expert in Nostr. Can you explain HOW Nostr favors a selection number of influencers?

🇵🇸 whoever loves Digit 5mo ago

Look at the default feeds in apps like nostter and primal when you're not logged in, or when you're on a new npub

Almost all the posts are from people who've personally gangstalked me and almost all the exceptions are still varying degrees of glowie

Prisoner24601 5mo ago

So its about default feeds created by individual clients?

🇵🇸 whoever loves Digit 5mo ago

That was my example but OP was talking about the culture of having people filter spam by isolating themselves in heavily filtered relay servers

franzap 5mo ago

Yet no one here is using nostr:npub1kpt95rv4q3mcz8e4lamwtxq7men6jprf49l7asfac9lnv2gda0lqdknhmz personalized pagerank that addresses all of this

🇵🇸 whoever loves Digit 5mo ago

It doesn't

Russo 5mo ago

Not only that, not only the defaults, that way they can silence who they dont like, it just need to an account with a big score mute u and block u and u are on the black list

For exempla nostr:npub1wamvxt2tr50ghu4fdw47ksadnt0p277nv0vfhplmv0n0z3243zyq26u3l2 appears to me allways like a dangerouse post, and i never mute him and their posts are sensored even without my choice to sensor him

Prisoner24601 5mo ago

But is the point that clients censor accounts initially, or that relays do? Who has the black list?

Scoundrel 5mo ago

Ya, but the last time we spoke you said like 99% of people are gangstalkers anyway so your observations don't really say anything about how biased or unrepresentative thise feeds are.

Scrotus 5mo ago

Nostr is the best approximation of proof of work in social media imo. Not perfect though. Spend time on nostr, post, reply, zap... Meet nostriches in real life.

Hanshan 5mo ago

nostr is just too small for WoT, which becomes "me and the other Bitcoin maxis"

not that we can do it eventually

kidwarp 5mo ago 💬 2

It’s pretty fucking simple…

Wot don’t work for the whole internet & it’s not going to work on nostr the same reasons… not sure why n e one thinks differently???

🇵🇸 whoever loves Digit 5mo ago

I've been trying for over a year to demand a network that values genuine contributions and holds everyone accountable. I hope your post is sincere and you'll be on board now, too. 🙏

il_lost_ 5mo ago

i read this note because you are in my web of trust, so you are elite, (a influence score list 😅)

also nostrudel has Web of trust

Russo 5mo ago

That doent mean that this aprouch is the best

I know nostrudel has Web of Trust, but it also has proof of work notes, and that is a fair way to prevent spam, web of trust is like proof of trust, you will rely in big accont to say what is good or bad

Then there are accounts i didnt block or mute that appear dangerouse content without i choose because web of trust

il_lost_ 5mo ago

yes because some people following a thousand people ruin everything a bit 🙄, yes amethyst has content filter moderation, if 5 people you follow have muted one you don't see it, but I don't think anyone says WOT is perfect and aspires to be, it's useful

Scoundrel 5mo ago

WHAT?! IS THAT AN UPDATE? I hope My Amwthyst isn't blocking people!

il_lost_ 5mo ago

no amethyst you in the settings 😅

Scoundrel 5mo ago

Could you rephrase that please?

Russo 5mo ago

The default setting make amethyst censor some users, you need to go to safety settings and take off the security filters, because if u have them enabled you just need to follow 5 people that block someone and you will not see his posts

Scoundrel 5mo ago

I don't remember that. Vitor Pamplona talked about it and said that it only blocks people who made the exact same post 5 times in a row. Though when I first installed Amethyst I disabled the setting anyway just because I didn't know what it did.

Russo 5mo ago

Yes also that, but 5 people blocking one person is a stupid default, if i pick 5 friends here, and i say lets fuck any other dude, we all block him and now anyone that follows me and my friends dont see the guy that we choose to block.

Its a nonsense default, if it was like 50 people or something like that it would make more sense, 5 people is a easy way to make someone disappear from others feed, specially if done by the "bitinfluenzors"

Weatherall 5mo ago

the influenzas

🦠

Scoundrel 5mo ago

Like I said, I don't even think Amethyst does that in the first place. But also 50 is a ridiculous number. There aren't even 50 Nostr users period, let alone 50 who would all encounter a particular user and go the effort of blocking them.

Russo 5mo ago

But it does that with 5 people blocking one the posts of that person start being marked as sensitive/dangerous content.

There are more than 10k active weekly users, and if someone is postimg dangerous content for sure that more than 5 people seeing it.

But at least the app should allow the user choose the settings, that would be better, than choosing a low number for everyone.

inpc 5mo ago

One day we’ll get there! #50Users

Scoundrel 5mo ago

I read the note because someone I follow boosted the note. I'm dollowing them because they have replied to me and I think the person involves themselves in interesting discussions.

Just because you used a web to find a post does not mean it was at all necessary.

franzap 5mo ago

This is not a good take.

How do you combat impersonators with Proof of Work?

Scoundrel 5mo ago

With time-stamp protocol or with trusted side channels.

franzap 5mo ago

What is a trusted side channel?

He literally just associated trust to ethereum, lmao

Russo 5mo ago

Of course i associates trust to ethereum, because you need to trust who has the big stake, here works the same way, you need to put trust in others judgment

franzap 5mo ago

It doesn't work like that

Russo 5mo ago

Of course it works like this, if your client block the posts of people because someone else you follow block them ypu are relying in third parties to judge for you

Scoundrel 5mo ago

Sorry not a side channel, I meant a trusted out-of-channel message. For example, someone could post their npub on Twitter or Github, or someone could have the website they own corroborate their identity. (There's a NIP for that.)

Don't ask me to comment on the comparison to etherium though. OP has crypto brainrot.

Captain's Nostr Log 5mo ago

proof of work is not a solution to social trust. the web of trust works great, with a few tweaks

Russo 5mo ago

Social trust is like proof of stake, u need to put trust in third parties instead of your own analisys

cloud fodder 5mo ago

this is why running a relay and offloading this processing there to have a combination of your own custom wot, lightning memberships, and pow is the way.

...

it doesn't have to be one or the other.

Captain's Nostr Log 5mo ago

you can just run your own WoT algorithm

Decent RAL izzy 5mo ago

U WoT m8? nostr:npub1dc9p7jzjhj86g2uqgltq4qvnpkyfqn9r72kdlddcgyat3j05gnjsgjc8rz

Let's be clear.

I'm new to nostr.

I'm all for merit and genuine contributions.

in blockchain sense PoW is just an automated demonstration of a hashrate, computing power, hardware resources.

still could be used by financially motivated spammer/attacker to propell own agenda to feed.

so as a captcha that doesn't stop irrelevant posts it doesn't make sense. Allows Sybill 51% attack.

Web of Trust is when you as a user decide whos content you'll follow and is Publish/Subscribe model. Makes sense.

in rostra for exemple there is extension where you can follow/subscribe only to certain parts of personality/areas of individual like #movies or #cooking where you trust them to publish high quality posts, and not #politics for example.

In nostr there is 2 layers of #WoT that may filter : A relay & a client (via friendlist) .

A #Hyphanet also rely on decentralized WoT. And it does work for 25 years. Web Of Trust doesn't mean a blockchain by itself per se. It's more of a keychain. See the difference?

#Etherium you mentioned is a PoS , Proof of a Stake. probably with optional WoT on top, since it could be their second time either reversing major transaction or forking. But discussing this would belong to separate #ETH thread. I'm not of a big ETH expert, but willing to learn.

Noisy signal 5mo ago

Best you stay lost in the whispers of the wind. Lost being the operative word.

You make assumptions, claiming that influencers are hogging Nostr. The other side to that coin is you imply those that follow are too stupid to think for themselves.

I am here to learn stuff. For me its about content in the one place that's vibrant with developers, Bitcoiners, cybersecurity and a host of hardware/software information, AI and everything in between.

If ethereum rings your bell - there's nothing to stop you from creating your own following.

Just cut the whinge / deport yourself or stay and create stuff.

Russo 5mo ago

Noisy, im here from the beggining, when nostr were just dust and tech guys, a normie couldnt even use the protocol.

Ive see the creation and evolution of nostr, and im talking about an implementation of a system, Web of Trust, the basicly puts the users rely on the preferences of big accounts, that was done to boost the accounts of influencers here even if they tell it otherwise, that makes the user need to trust third people choices, specially big accounts, because its on them that 90% of people rely on, and thats what i compare with Ethereum.

Noisy signal 5mo ago 💬 1

Thank you for responding, and its awesome that you are an original since Nostr's inception. Forgive my anger.

Prior to Nostr I was following Lyn Alden (her macro view on broken money), Jeff Booth (his comparison of BTC/USD), Matt ODell/Marty Bent (geopolitical, BTC updates and regulations likely to impact BTC), Jack Dorsey (the various projects to create software to help onboard people into BTC), Peter MacCormack (the impact of BTC people in countries suffering high inflation and their currency is practically toast).

I've never considered them influencers . I respect them for their knowledge and their willingness to share what they know. Influenced by them? Of course. When they have something to say - I sit up and listen. The kicker is - I don't blindly follow them. I don't worship them. I apply their teachings to my bubble. We all have different realities, different priorities and yet they have helped shape my education on what is money. There are many more out there that deserve a mention.

All have one thing in common - they see Trumps train wreck coming and its picking up speed. They are helping us get off the train track.

I'm sorry I misunderstood your comparison to ethereum. I get the point.

Russo 5mo ago

Im always here for talk and show my views, i try to put it outside and i want to see a big future for nostr as a permissionless and fair for all protocol and with uncensorable caracteristics.

But i also saw shaddy agendas behind some big accounts and clients.

You have some clients example, you download it and create an account there and you are suddenly following all this "friends" accounts, also they have sensored accounts that they didnt like.

They say that it is for being easyer to find people to follow, but "possibly or probably" that isn't the case..

They also say that using the custodial wallet by default that KYCs you is to make it easy to onboard people to use bitcoin, and we can know that it "probably" isn't the case, because the funding that comes to that client comes from that custodial wallet , that is also funded "probably" by some big company that makes stablecoins.

Sometimes 1+1=2 sometimes no, time will tell

Noisy signal 5mo ago

I'm new to Nostr. Not even a month.

First impressions -

1. Reading a breakdown of Bitchat from Calle.

2. Discovering the possibilities of Whitenoise

3. Cybersecurity issues. Currently studying Minimalist Privacy set ups.

4. Finding out Proton is front run by Cloudflare. Looking for an alternative.

5. Reading that bombing Iran, didn't affect BTC mining by sooly.

There's more, but you get the gist.

So much learning material and I'm really grateful.

Now, back to the issues you list. Can we separate perception (BS) from perspective (reality).

1. Clarify big accounts .

Are they BTC maxis?

Or they have a big fan base.

2. Clarify clients.

Are you referring to the apps used?

If so, which apps.

Or are you referring to the fan base.

3. Can you give an example of a client where I can see what you've experienced. I understand your concept, just can't visualize the issue. Especially the one issuing KYC wallets. That is not BTC. That is not Nostr.

As a side note - I keep being followed by a band of 5-6, no engagement. Checked out a couple of them - meditation and cosmology - and I don't understand how that equates with my notes. A mystery.

4. I don't have a problem with censorship. In fact I muted one - caught him out in a lie and he tried head fucking me. I gave him, his pedigree and muted him.

5. I hear your frustration, and am truly sorry for biting your head off.

I don't know where this journey will take us, but I'm on board if you'll let me.

Two heads are better than one. And there is a wrongness in your experience against what Nostr was built for.