what are your thoughts on zaps4follows? my take is that nostr gives us the freedom to do whatever we want. i wouldn't do it. i think it's spammy and scammy. however, i also understand with very little algorithmic help, it's hard for new npubs to gain traction. if someone wants to offer the hardest money we have for some follows and engagement, i say that proof of work, the freedom to communicate, and the free market are working as intended. on the other side of the argument, if you don't like it, you're also free to complain. nostr gives us that freedom too.
Discussion
How is this different than Fountain giving me sats to use their app?
It's not very different at all.
Your gonna have a zap and follow me to find out 😂, No actually I think it's spammy at very least as you mentioned.
I don’t think it’s scammy
You may say it’s spammy I guess
Everything is v4v
At least he is honest enough about his intention
It's only scammy because their is little proof of work involved. I could follow you and could choose to not zap me. Sure, I'd wait and then unfollow. Or alternatively as soon as you zapped me in could unfollow you. It's just not genuine.
I think similarly to you. Thankfully, we can do whatever we want here, and that's great! It does come off as a bit desperate and ingenuine, at least to me, zapping for follows. Especially because at least for me, I follow based on the person's profile. If I find them intolerable and dislike all their notes, it doesn't matter how phat their zap is, I'm not gonna follow. It is difficult though to gain exposure and build up the follower count. It's a slow but sure process for me. But it is rewarding in a way, building a following through posting content that resonates with or that people enjoy. It'd be nice if it grew a bit quicker though, haha
I will follow anyone for the right zap amount. Send me 1M ⚡️ and I will say GM to you every day for the rest of the year 😂
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Yeah I don't like the concept either.. sounds FIAT, but will not criticise someone doing it openly, it's just a signal itself of what the incentives are.
I remember doing follow because I gor zapped in the early months here.. something like appreciation and a way to discover new npubs. Now it's still the Reason to check new plebs, but doesn't mean I will instantly follow, trying to make the follows more valuable and not just bought 😅.
P.s. one of the best thing about #Amethyst is you know that 234.. 37.. 456.. 2.. 2727.. 78.. people follows you 😂🫂💜
Yep. We have to be our own algorithms here.
Spam, scams and propaganda thrive in free speech. 🤷
I don't care one way, or the other. I agree with your point that we have the freedom to do so, or complain about someone doing it.
If you hold a contest, or promise to send whoever replies to your note, etc some Sats,.. is that not the same thing? We can't get bogged down in what some might consider improper behavior.
You do you, and I'll do me. If I don't like what you do, I don't have to pay you any mind. The beauty of being sovereign.
Just always remember,.. Don't trust. Verify.
Zaps for follows is like paying people to be your friends, or hiring an escort to pretend to be your girlfriend at a party.
It is not genuine. It is scammy, desperate, and pathetic. This tactic is reserved for bots and marketing companies playing a numbers game.
There are less morally vile ways to entice people to follow you if you want to utilize marketing tactics. Such as contests, or giveaways for engagement.
I agree on these points in principle, but I am looking at it as zaps4follows is someone just having a different algorithm than I do. Theirs has a monetary commitment and that's okay by me. I do 100% agree it's not genuine though. That's why I wouldn't do it.
I checked the profile, found out I don't want to block it, neither follow. as always
Paying someone to follow me is dumb. The profiles who do this are most likely trying to make their follower count high in order to make others think they are important.
The problem is follower counts on Nostr is not important because 1, the followers list takes way to long to load, 2, many of the followers are bots.
I wouldn't do it either but I don't really care if others do it. Until they add some sort of defense like charging 3 Satoshi in order to follow someone then follower and following counts won't matter.
We also need to remember that follower counts don't mean all that much, but we're human and humans like to know that we're not speaking into the void, we want to be heard and social. 🫂
And don't forget that a follower is not necessarily a real person (see e.g. the AI chatbots), so the number of followers can be misleading.
Wow, this bot is pretty good. I wonder what model it uses?
I'm not an expert in this area, but I've already struggled against chatbots on Nostr, time-to-time. Annoying job, the smarter ones periodically change their npubs. Others use different npubs per relay they are listening on.
On the other hand there are really good AI bots regarding their knowledge. Proably - this is my conteo - some devs are testing, and Nostr users are the "lab rats".
Yes you're right. I actually like the followers list and wish it would load fast so I could use it to find friends.
I also said it should be required to pay 3 satoshi so the followers list would be much more organic as bots wouldn't want to pay to mass follow. The the followers list would be much more useful and real.
I'm fine with it. You can spend your sats however you see fit.
Why would anyone care if I zap people for following me or get zapped for following someone. 🤔
Honetly I normally check out anyone who zaps my content if I am not already following them, or if I havnt seen any of their stuff for a while. Which normally ends up with a follow and zapping back if they have put any effort at all having some content posted.
I am going to intervene right there. Check me out 🙃
In Nostr - by design/protocol - you can't order anyone. So I can't understand the word "order" in this context.
On the other hand, what's the point of a follow that is "empty" and not based on respecting the content that others share?
The thing is that zaps4follows means I can follow them, get zaps and then unfollow them cause I just wanted their money. The "scam" can go both ways. But the zaps only go one way!
Exactly
Why wasn’t I already following this brilliant npub?
Probably because I didn't pay you? 🤣🤣
Wait, I just got zapped and I hadn't clicked follow... do I need to follow you now or how does this work?! 🤔🤣
I do not fish for follows. I zap from the sizzle of your signal, so please be my guest and follow if you feel me, but it isn’t obligatory by any means.
My morning, basically.
It's a good discussion to have, thanks for posting Derek.
I think it's kind of scammy, obviously.
You're welcome 😁 The feed was dead and needed some poking.
It it's kind of scammy... Especially if people use it to jump into someone's WoT, which people will absolutely 100% do at some point. So we just need to stay vigilant.
Good on you for looking out.
Are you still talking? You raised the most furious fight ever on this social network just because you're going to meddle in other people's business. But if in addition to publishing real content (how do I do it) every now and then I give zap in exchange for following you what changes? Am I stealing something from you? Sly censor. Go to work for Facebook. You burned me 100 followers because you ordered your dogs to remove my follow. Lousy censor. Long live freedom! Tonight we all discovered that there is no freedom on this social network
That seems hyperbolic. I just view things in a different way than you do. It will happen on a network where you can't be censored. All kinds of different opinions can & will exist.
But you can see things differently from me! There is also that you don't like what I do. But you can't tag 100 people and tell them not to follow me anymore because I scam people. 'Cause since I've never cheated anyone in my life, the scammer in this case is you. Shit censor
Seems a little silly to try and take that mindset now at this point 😬 Thats not just “having a different viewpoint”,
I mean I feel like he’s making pretty fair points and has a right to come at you sounding pretty pissed.
If anything seems hyperbolic to me, its tagging somebody’s followers and trying to roast them in front of said followers in a public square to start all this… 🤷♂️
🤝
Better to follow someone because you have something in common with them rather than following someone because they gave you some sats, in my opinion.
I look at it as a way to get noticed. You'd be free to unfollow as soon as they zap you. Maybe some do that. Maybe some don't. Maybe some check the feed out and decide to stick around.
I agree that it’s a way to get noticed. On one hand, some follow and stick around, some follow and unfollow as soon as they get zapped. Some also see the zap 4 follow and steer clear because it’s spammy/fake engagement.
It’s scummy but I’ll allow it. 😌
Yeah. Feels sketch, for my own behavior, but if we are to remain truly free, that is part of freedom. We are free to STFU, scroll on, deliver our wisdom, or mute. Vigorous debate is the lifeblood of an emerging technology/protocol like this. I appreciated (when I joined #nostr) getting helpful hints that there were better ways of interacting. I felt it was kind of npubs to care enough to give me keys to the cool kid kingdom, despite me losing them in a boating accident. 🛶
Quality over quantity I always remind myself. At the same time, realizing that number-go-up is here with us on Nostr. Everyone's competing to be seen. It's about changing the mentality.
I've never seen a zap4follow or repost4follow or follow4follow worth following. But it's not unimaginable. I agree nostr is difficult to be seen on, clients have shoddy recommended users, the whole meta is geared towards bitcoin slop and this is probably inevitable.
Derek On this social network everyone must be free to do what they want! Period! If not removed the purpose of freedom and decentralization. What decentralization is it if I do something that someone doesn't like and this goes to tell 100 other lies about me so that I don't follow anymore? Think about it... censorship is called
You keep saying that you were censored, but you weren't. You had someone tell their followers to unfollow you. That's not censorship. You're still free to post and do whatever you want on Nostr. The freedom exists in that you can do zaps4follows and someone else can hate that and complain about it. Both parties are free to do whatever they see fit.
I was censored because from today 100 people who used to see what I had to say and tell now don't see it anymore. All because one person decided to obscure me to 100 people. It's called censorship
that's not censorship. those people made a choice. sorry.
They made a choice piloted by a single user who told them that my account is a scam! When it's absolutely not like that! I'm publishing everything on this social network for more than a month. If only I did zap4follow I understand. But it's not like that! Centralization and censorship have fallen on me unfairly in the place I least thought
no one likes being a target. i get that. if someone that that to me, id state my case and if they didn't believe me, i'd probably say GFY and then continue on using nostr as i always have. because at the end of the day, proof of work will prevail. if you're not a scammer, your notes will prove that. your content will prove that. just keep doing what you're doing. work hard.
Zaps for follows are SHIT , i have seen many new users land on Nostr and figure their own space. Two examples … bitpop art and Pegah, both selling stuff. Bitpop has been spammy at times but awesome to see the art , (love you dude) has been consistent and 1000 x behind the cause .. i love him for that.. pagah , persistent and driven (love you for that )has sold rugs only due to Nostr
It’s corny af but you have a point. It’s hard to be seen for many people online. I understand why people do it here.
Just zap gratuitously with no expectation for anything in return, make some thoughtful comments, be nice (or be a smartass whatever) and the follows will come.
It’s lame, but people are gonna do zap4follow in an open protocol… it won’t keep them here though. The connections they make will be vapid.
This is true
Having something in common > zaps 4 follow
That moment, when you grow up and realize that the people who followed you for zaps don't really like you...
this "when you grow up" meme makes me giggle, it's so spot on tho, such a nice way to insult people without insulting people
#ZapForFollow and #FollowForFollow are not the way.
True.
It’s another form of begging. I end up muting beggars. Very little value offered, nothing interesting, just begging. Seems the trend is to get an npub, act cool for a bit, then dial up the begging. Then it’s all beg all the time. Maybe it’s not intentional, maybe it just clicks how the zaps work after a short time.
I think most have said on here many times in many ways that follows don’t matter, as in the amount of follows. Some don’t get this. They build up a following then switch up to begging or influencing… whatever they were not at the start.
There’s still a “get followers” mentality left over from traditional platforms.
Amount of followers being low either means you’re new or you just suck 🤷♀️ I get why people want lots of followers. But it’s cool to have them organically from building community rather than having them just from being “nostr elite” 😉
In the end, the protocol doesn’t care, and that’s the point. Let people experiment, and let the community decide what sticks.
In the end, the protocol doesn’t care, and that’s the point. Let people experiment, and let the community decide what sticks.
It’s an open protocol. What are we even supposed to do? If someone doesn’t like something, they can hide the words, hide hashtags, unfollow people, mute them.
I also don’t like the idea of mob policing. Here, people have full control over their feed, & that’s the only feed they should be worried about, not about someone else’s nostr feed & what they should see.
& this hashtag feels a bit spammy, but it’s not even harmful. We also need to chill out, I think.
👏👏👏
I'm not much for zap for follows...
It "doesn't scale" as is said often these days.
Just post cool stuff that you dig, be an authentic person and see what happens...
But it's Nostr...if you wanna give sats away, go for it...
People can do what they want but I don’t think it’s effective in the long run if their goal is to actually gain followers that will engage with them, and it likely draws people zap farmers who will follow them with multiple npubs to get zapped. Completely worthless to build a following made up of “fake” accounts. A better “zap 4 follows” strategy would be for them to just go out on nostr and start zapping posts with some catchy/message attached. That way they’re not only more likely to zap real people, but also building goodwill with the community they’re trying to enter.
It’s kind like sucking dick for crack cocaine in a dark alley.
You both got what you wanted but now neither can look the other one in the eye with any respect.
This quote popped in my head when I read this
A little harsh but definitely some truth to it 
It’s boring and I don’t want to see boring content
Nostriches are so ready to have paid promotions on Nostr. We need to find each other in an honest, conventual, and transparent way. And we need to be compensated for our attention.
opt-in - set your price - match with an ad - watch - get paid
nostr:nprofile1qqs0xgvyaeact5khdrllmk7r936mhmtdjt3d6sm3g2h4c5qgd5wp00cpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7qgcwaehxw309anxjmr5v4ezumn0wd68ytnhd9hx2tcgtfwta is coming very soon
#therevolutionwillbeadvertised
People are free to do whatever but it's always strikes me a beg a friend. Those kind of relationships don't end well. I don't take the free sats, I prefer to deal with people in a more human way.
Just shows me how incredibly EARLY we are to Nostr and that most people that want to Z4F just don’t understand what decentralized social network means.
This will change as new NIPs add features and advertising. People will look back and laugh in 16 years.
