Where can we donate to the relay?
It reminds me when Reddit started using gold “badges” as a way to pay for “servers”. It was a community phenomena.
Discussion
All my servers are costing $600 a month.
Only revenue i get is through zaps and that is dwindling it seems :(
Appreciate your service 🙏🏻
Zaps incoming ser ⚡️⚡️⚡️ Keep building you will figure it out.
Please send out contribution requests an a regular basis so we can better support
Paid relays are the future, feel free to charge me for the value you provide.
Damus Purple fixes this
$6.99 ⚡️
We really need to implement a mechanism to share zaps with client developers
And relays.
⚡️🍎⚡️
🫂
🧘🏼♀️
I'm not going to assume this hasn't already been considered but how about prioritising notes that are archived by the amount of zaps they receive and/or finding a way for some of those to go to a relay automatically?
There's no reason all of my notes need to be kept forever, for example.
When optional subscription?
Everyone!!!! Set a monthly reminder to send #[4]some funds to keep the #[5] relay going.
#[0]
We need a some kind of sustainable business model.
My sense is that we would start seeing archival relays before too long. That is, relays with slower storage and retrieval that free up the critical path relays from having to keep events at the ready for as long.
I’ve been working on something very tangentially related to this as a side project for a little bit now… wonder if all relay operators are feeling the squeeze as well around storage/service costs 🤔
I very rarely see events older than a month in my timeline having been reacted to, commented on, etc.
Most relays could store a rolling 1-3 months of data and be very useful. Keep hot the metadata kinds 0/3/10002 and then a month of data.
The concern however is a similar problem to broken http links on legacy internet.
I think the archive relay is certainly the direction headed. We don’t need to keep 2 year old data indexed as well as recent. Or we can purge older revisions or replaced events (if stored).
An alternative to the archive relay is paid relays that persist a pubkey/members data for longer periods or forever. I think this will be common too.
All relays all data.. that will die the next couple Nostr 10X jumps.
That’s crazy
Millions must zap, billions even
What is the most costly part? Maybe you can optimize and reduce costs for that. Or charge for relay - 1 month for free and then sats per month, that could be good?
Start setting a fund button for @Damus, and maybe a monthly zapraizer with the amount you think is needed to cover the costs and nkt only, I think you pay the bills at the end of the month so.. 😅
Don't be afraid to monetize, try with free donations and monthly zapraizer, if it doesn't work I am sure user would pay for a monthly/annually subscription to Damus or an upgraded version.. like, why not upgrading testflight tonmore people and let them pay to be have new builds and implementation first than anyone else. Just an idea.
#[4]
I’d bet a lot of plebs would setup zap splits to share a portion of their zaps with devs if that was an option.
Paid relay is totally reasonable.
Maybe a few months free to help onboarding, but then sats.
I think it’s important to have free relays to on-board normies. But if you can set up a paid relay, a whole bunch of early adopters would happily migrate to it.
Finance your investment and stop whining. Are you an entrepreneur or are you employed by us? I've gone for years without any income on some of my projects. Learn what future income means. You're going to be filthy rich.
don’t make too many assumptions about any individual’s motivations/commitment or financial circumstances. no two people are ever the same
How many assumptions did I make?
I have no idea what this guy is talking about. I was stating facts and observations, not whining. I am planning on making damus revenue generating, but I am focused on making the app good first. I don’t want to sell something that is crap.
You're doing a great job, that's beside the point. What I'm triggered by is that you say you depend on zaps, and you say those are dwindling. While we're still in this fiat economy where money is cheap and you can get a loan to bridge this period. Get some financial advice and you'll be well off for building one of the best apps ever created.
#[4] is building something that lit a fire of inspiration in all of us and (IMHO) is amongst the primary reasons that nostr is gaining the traction that it is. If he needs zaps to support him in this beautiful moment in time, then let's support him with bitcoin and not suggest he take a fiat loan or go into debt. He's a driver of a community that we've all come to love and have gained enormous value from. He'll get to revenue and a long-term business model, but until then, let's show him how a community can support young, important projects.
I like your take, but hopefully there is room for someone who doesn't shower jb55 in likes and rose petals for everything he says. My response is genuine and from experience. I appreciate the man for the beauty that he is creating. I'll give the response he doesn't want to hear but has a place.
This is a good take. Tough love works wonders. Just don’t start tough love with an insult. Whining was not what he was doing and if anything, the guy just builds without sharing any of the actual tough shit that goes along with it. I know whining, this ain’t it. And by starting off with that, your overall point will be discounted, discarded and that’s unfortunate.
Good point, the wording could've been better.
I don’t ask for this. I’m simply trying to build the best nostr client while simultaneously trying to make it sustainable. I can’t control how people respond to my posts. I am not fishing for compliments, and my posts are not made to generate sympathy to get zaps. I am m posting what things cost to get an idea what it’s like to run the most popular nostr relay, and to point out that zaps can not sustain it at this number of users and zaps. This why I have been focusing on bringing damus to the masses so that we can get to the scale where it might be possible.
well said
Thank you for your honest response. Sorry for using the word whining. I hope you do understand that I am on your team, even though I'm not being nice to you. I know what it's like to start a business and live with the uncertainty of revenue and I hope you make the right financial decisions to finish your work. I will keep supporting devs, and you.
I never said I depend on zaps
But zaps help I’m sure.
I was making an observation that zaps is are not a reliable revenue source, at least at this user level. everyone kinda knows this by now.
can i help offest the burden with an adjacent relay on embassy not looking for zaps?
BAN HIM!
Haha 😆 JK.
This is NOSTR, decentralized and open to opinions and conversation. You’re doing a great job Will and your investment will pay you multiples. And perhaps Lau is trying to give constructive criticism.
All Damus users are receiving value for your efforts here Will
I believe we all have an obligation to support those efforts, within our means ⚡️
Yes, but he should not rely on that.
He stated facts/ observations re: his entrepreneurial efforts… It’s not an easy ( or free) journey
If you don’t want to support development, that’s on you and it’s your prerogative. No judgement.
But If that were my stance, I’d just remain quiet vs calling him a “complainer”. Because that’s just dick and incorrect
ios is a such a small market
Ain’t that right, David, since what had been the cause for two people if not the root causes for all this mess, when destroying for those doing their job, but hey, guess the ego and power getting hurt when incompetence becomes illuminated is not mentioned, and if only the two were not so different from themselves. Go swing an axe.
👐🏻
He’s not whining, he’s stating a fact.
That's not what that emoji says. He has a great following and this statement will generate more sympathy in the form of zaps which he shouldn't rely on to begin with.
Didn’t know you were the emoji police 🧐
Build the next Damus and then offer advice on what he should or shouldn't do #[5]
That's a pretty lousy disqualification. I'll say what I have to say.
Zap
What’s your lightning address?
Have an idea
Zapped!
Not sure where you’re hosting these servers (AWS, Google, Azure etc). If you’re using one of those, make sure you contact your account manager and apply for funding in the form of credits. It takes 5 min. Most will give up to $100k in credits for those backed by VC, and smaller amount for those that aren’t.
I’m sure this has been covered but I can’t zap from Muun right? I get an error.
#[3] needs some zaps⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️
A recurring fee option?
Zapped ⚡️
Thank you for your work.
That’s a lot. Thank you for your service
#[3] 🤯 I owe you so many drinks now 🙇♂️
if there's time in japan, i'm all in 🫂🍸
Cant get my zaps through lol...keep getting error guess your ln address under duress 😎
Here you go ⚡️💜🧡🙏Thanks for your work on Damus
paid relays
i wonder why twitter doesnt show an ad sometimes before a video starts. damus could do it too?
Zapped! But I would also pay a subscription.
p2p no servers
Bro I think it’s time you work on some paid features 😏
Wen ads?
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Atleast you get zaps #[4]😏
Excellent work, bro, as the amount of data increases, we need to think about sustainable models for commercial profitability.
How do you see the future of relay if Nostr goes mainstream ? You will not be able to store everything. Are professional relay substainable ?
Ok here is an idea (I’m not a developer), it would be cool if there is some lightning based community funding standard / mechanism where each participant automatically pays an equal amount of share but the more people participate the less you pay. Fully automatic , probably with some max amounts to prevent you get rugged. (Same as streaming sats)
This should work for any cloud related federated service that just need funding to pay the cost, for commercial services we can let the market decide on solutions.
It is dwindling because there is no PR campaign to promote NOSTR and the number of new users is dwindling. The last good PR was the Forbes article in May. NOSTR is the best kept secret in Social Networking! Anybody interested to pitch in for some good PR? I'll contribute 1,888,888 sats if Damus, Coracle, Amethyst and a few others contribute like amounts. 30,000,000 sats should at least get a small PR company to do some promotions! #grownostr