I don't really have the legal freedom to stop funding the never ending banker's wars, so my opinion of the flag flying over all of said wars is meaningless, which was the goal. The superficial appearance of freedom without the ability to act on one's beliefs without breaking the law. But fuck their laws too.
Discussion
End the FED , NOT THE FLAG
The flag is the symbol of the govt religion that makes all govt criminality socially acceptable. Let go of your false idols.
The flag is an obscure symbol. The Nazi flag before Hitler surely represented some good things to people waving it. Now, it illicits a quite negative response. So also, I refuse to waive flags and I sure as heck wouldn’t pledge to the flag and the republic.
Dying for an obscure symbol is surely a false idol. +1 to Jeff
You could just decide to use Monero for that very specific reason.
But you choose to ignore it. And by that compromise your own values.
Bitcoin is the tool to end the supply arm of government. Monero is the tool to end the demand arm. Once you see it you can not make it unseen.
Why choose to cripple yourself in this fight? Use both to the best of your abilities.
The idea that people are going to trade with one money & save in another money is just a hangover from all of the Keynesian bullshit people have been fed. The scaling & privacy tools on Bitcoin are going to drain the value out of Monero & everything else.
Are you part of the people that defend themselves from coercion or are you just a lazy dude waiting for others to fix the system?
We really don't know what people will hold and use in the future. It largely depends on future circumstances.
I guess you are the one waiting for a price signal. Thanks to ETFs by BlackRock and the delisting of Monero from CEX you'll get your price signal that will help you evaluate things.
Imagine relying on your enemies to pump your bags to get rid of your enemies. Don't you think that's ridiculous?
Trading with one money and saving in a harder one is what 75% of the world does already, just sayin'.
Most fiat currencies are even softer than USD and Euros, and people do the best they can with the options they have.
Huge fallacy... this is a slave mentality, you're probably paying your taxes in fiat too because we'll, it's easy for trade? Definitely not because of the threat of jail time. Nooooo 🙄 do yourself a favor, just study/adopt #Bitcoin 100%. Thank me later.
Yes, that is the Keynesian bullshit that I meantioned.
Truth.
I'd call it "coerced choice" bullshit, a larger category than "Keynesian".
But even absent coercion; gold, bitcoin, monero, whisky and 5.56mm have different properties and more than one may be useful / optimal under a particular set of individual circumstances.
I don't maxi anything except freedom itself.
Yes, all of those things have value, but because one of them is perfectly scarce I think all monetary premium will accumulate there.
A widely shared opinion, plausible, and quite possibly correct.
I believe that if current trends continue, Bitcoin will accrete the lion's share of the monetary premium. But not 100%. No money has ever achieved 100%, and that's fine, single points of failure are hazardous.
I guess we will find out sooner or later.
There are no "privacy tools" on Bitcoin that do what Monero does.
And there has always been a complex ecosystem of various monetary instruments with different properties.
Maxis always emphasize "one coin to rule them all" because they want ngu.
Liquid has confidential transactions. Cashu is Chaumian ecash, both are networked via lightning so that with the right wallet(s) you can move seamlessly between the two.
The tools are definitely not as mature and seamless as I would like but they are there, and more is coming. Altcoiners don't want to see reality because their bags depend on it.
Even in a world where hundreds of govts force people to use national forms of money, everything has tended toward one. Govt force isn't going to be there to bolster altcoins as the world wakes up from this financial dark age we have been trapped in.
Too bad both privacy solutions you listed are custodial 😥 (and liquids anon set is non existent)
I'd like to at least have the option to have privacy without requiring me to be cucked
both of those solutions are centralized and custodial. ok well, Liquid isn't custodial, you just need permission to peg out.
bitcoiners don't wabt to acknowledge this becasue their bags depend on compromising 1st principles for the sake of NGU.
You don't need permission to swap out via Lightning.
And using Monero requires either losing wealth or some sort of exchange cost, so if neither monero nor cashu are good places to store money, why not use the cheaper swap to make private payments? Cashu being custodial isn't any more risky than trying to exchnage btc for xmr. And like I said, better L2/L3 tech is coming.
Atomic swaps are a thing. So no there is no risk.
And its nice to theorize about how great ecash will be when its not battle-tested.
As it stands, you have to immediately swap out to you own mint or to LN becasue we cant trust the mints.
All of your "solutions" have considerably more friction that just having a stack of monero you use for private payments.
I guess you aren't aware of https://app.mutinywallet.com/
You need to make an coherent argument for a solution.
Are you trying to make a case for Mutiny being private LN payments?
Are you saying enuts is not custodial?
Do you know the point you are trying to make?
Mutiny allows you to use fedimints.
It doesn't matter if a small amount of spending comes with some custodial risk if you gain privacy in the process.
But clearly the increasing optionality on bitcoin is never going to pump your bags so you are going to be opposed to all of it. Good luck with that.
Tell Jeff to use PayPal instead better solution than your liquid
This post was typed from a Copium Den
Name one. Ill wait.
Non KYC bitcoin + coin join + lightning network + proxy node for receive privacy
Just cuz your copium stupor turns you into an 80 IQ zombie doesn’t mean everyone’s like that. I can run this infra with ease. It’s a matter of time before it’s all automated and retards can do this too.
There is no Zerolink CJ operational st the moment.
JM cjs have been unwound and wasabi sucks.
So no, there isnt a good CJ option atm.
Receiver privacy on LN is non existent and even sender privacy is subjective since LN can be highly centrlaized.
"proxy node" isnt a thing.
iow, there arent any tools on bitcoin that obfuscate the sender, receiver and amount.
agree with no-KYC though.
no KYC only 👍
You can automate wrapped invoices to obfuscate flow of funds. Bolt12 is coming which uses blinded paths so that will soon not even be necessary.
All of these tools will continue to automate and obsolete Monero. Anything else is cope. Monero is the most respectable of the alt coins. I am glad people care about privacy but it’s just a fact that bitcoin will keep moving forward and improving.
"privacy is coming" is the cope.
Ive been having these arguments for over 7 yrs and its always "privacy is coming."
There is nothing that comes close to monero privacy guarantees and that's a fact.
furthermore, if you do NOT have protocol level privacy there will ALWAYS be centralization/custodial tradeoffs.
I use bitcoin privately all the time. You just don’t want to hear it. I can get send and receive privacy out of lightning transactions today. Just because you’re on copium and don’t understand what LNProxy or Bolt12 is doesn’t mean it isn’t private.
The only issue at this point is ease of use for Normies/UX frankly. Cope seethe and dilate.
You're promoting beta software and untried tech as privacy solutions.
LN privacy is a complicated issue and when you say "I use LN privately all the time"
you're obviously full of shit.
This is five year old thinking. “I don’t like it therefore it’s not true! Buy my Monero bags!”
Obvious signs of copium overdose. Get help anon.
Sender privacy is quite good if you use your own node and hardware like a real man.
Receiver privacy is possible and improving. LNProxy is quite simple to use and soon will be obsoleted by Bolt12 with blinded paths. At that point you have pretty much no argument. L2 obsoletes Monero.
Cope seethe and dilate shitcoiner. Your bags are going to zero against bitcoin. Accept it.
Send me your main BTC addresses, if you are so confident.
Han can send you their XMR address, and you won't know shit.
How can you fail to see the power differential ?
All your lightning support infra can be compromised through poor security practices, or damaged in a local event. So now you have to have redundant offsite systems that also require trust in third parties, just to guard against downtime.
All this is default in Monero. So Monerans are more efficient users than Bitcoin and Lightning users, their time does not need to be spent of troubleshooting, maintenance or updates of all the various systems just to have a worst version of privacy that can have operational channel issues and routing failures, or be custodied as with the most popular lightning clients.
Monerans can focus on building important problems, services and businesses in private while Bitcoiners are wasting countless man hours on problems it solved and deployed years ago.
I could send you $10M in Monero today wherever you are on this beautiful planet without anybody knowing anything. Just you and me.
Try this with any other financial tool.
Ecash - trust and liquidity issues
LN - privacy and liquidity issues
BTC - privacy issues
Gold - transportability issues, trust in delivery service
Cash - transportability issues, trust in delivery service
But unlike a Bitcoin maxi I would never claim, that there is no value in other financial tools.
I see distinct and specific use cases and trade offs for each of them.
There’s not nearly enough liquidity for you to spend it in the real world without leaking data or causing yourself a problem. Kind of a moot point. I know people IRL that I can spend bitcoin with on private channels that can feed me, house me, sell me goods I need etc.
There's enough liquie within Monero. And as it is in fact used more as a medium of exchange than a store of value people on average care less about on and off ramps.
So what I said is still true. I could send you the money on chain.
And all the things you describe I have on Monero. In today's world it's not s problem to live mostly on Monero if you are dedicated enough to release and relieve yourself from the fiat nightmare.
Could you walk me through a few real life scenarios?
I’ll give you one: there are ranchers all over the US that will sell you high quality beef directly for lightning payments. No questions asked. I pretty much can feed myself off of only goods purchased through bitcoin.
That sounds wonderful. I am agnostic when it comes to farmers and merchants and their preferred choices. I would pay them whatever they want, BTC, LN, hell even bcash.
But I still would use Monero from my side with an (atomic) swap in between.
Can not afford to compromise my privacy for my business partners coin selection.
First off thank you for actually addressing some key issues instead of being a blind shill. For the record I’ve never said Monero has zero value. I think it’s the only alt coin that has any value at all. That said it’s cringe that Monero people are acting as if bitcoin and lighting are not adapting or moving forward at all. Are you aware of Bolt12? If so: What are its implications?
Lightning solves half the problem of privacy with superb sender privacy. Full stop. Monero shills refuse to accept this. Now let me address your criticism:
>all your lightning infra can be compromised
Isn’t that the case for all computer systems? You don’t think that can happen with your Monero node/wallet? I’ve taken every precaution I know of. I stay NKYC I fly below the radar and I use dedicated hardware with open source code I audited from people I know IRL and verified the checksum. I’ve recovered my node multiple times with no hiccups. If I get owned by alphabet people I get owned lol. The same goes for you on Monero.
>the anon set isn’t big enough
This wasn’t yours but this was someone else’s criticism. I promise the anon set on lightning is at least as good if not better than monero’s and that will intensify with the upcoming bullrun.
My position the entire time hasn’t been bitcoin is more private than Monero today. It consciously made other trade offs that make it a superior money. There are developments happening today that are moving privacy forward and it’s foolish to just ignore those. That’s why I think Monero will eventually go to zero against bitcoin.
We are not maximalists. We are celebrating every development that leads to better privacy plike Bolt12. In the end its also better for Monero if Bitcoin upgrades its privacy.
But we believe that 99% of people need privacy out of the box or it will fail. It's great that the Bitcoin cypherpunk after putting 100s of hours of research into their OpSec can handle BTC privately. But 99% will never reach that point. So anything that is not protocol level privacy will have to be added by projects in top of which at least some have the interest or are forced to by governments to collect data.
See. Most Monero people are early Bitcoiners. It's our roots so we have mad respect of what has been achieved. But at the same time we concluded that Bitcoin lacks in some aspects.
But as free markets are a great way to hedge there is no problem. I can hold both and gain the upsides of each coin without having to live with the downsides. "Trade offs" they call it not without reason.
The maxi position is anti hedging and doesn't acknowledge trade offs. In that sense I am neither a BTC nor a XMR maxi. I value freedkm, the cypherpunk ethos and I will fight for better tools. Calling out weaknesses as I am not intending to sacrifice my friends and family. So I tell them about perceived weaknesses in BTC and XMR.
Fair enough. As I’ve stated I respect Monero but at the same time I believe that bitcoin will over time improve. Monero made a trade off of privacy for transparency which I respect but ultimately casts doubt on its usefulness as a store of value. I suspect it will play out that lightning will cannibalize Monero over time. Either way I wish you success and luck as we collectively build toward a better future free of parasites.
Cheers
Bitcoin Carlin
>Send me a BTC address
No. How about a lightning invoice?
What services are Monerans building? Monero doesn’t even have sufficient scripting infra.
Haveno and Serai for a start. Plenty of good wallets that are used by Bitcoiners also like CakeWallet because its Monero bros who take privacy on BTC more serious than most Bitcoin devs.
Ok they’re non KYC exchanges. Those exist in bitcoin too. Wallets are a bare necessity.
Bitcoin can do things like L402 which lets people pay for API usage a la carte . Is there anything like that in Monero? Not trying to be mean but if Monero really was more efficient I’d expect a lot more success in terms of business profitability and innovation. Truthfully bitcoin lacks the former but I’d argue there’s no shortage of the latter.
You’re arguing that Monero is more efficient so I’d assume they’d have more to show for it than just that.
A lot of these swaps are trusted because Monero does not have sufficient scripting functionality which bitcoin does have.
I know what Bitcoin can do. I've been here since the early days.
Monero does not try to be anything more than stupid digital cash. Boring? Maybe. But not to me.
Seraphis and FCMP will advance Monero's protocol. There is plenty of good and solid stuff. Maybe nothing spectacular for you.
Monero doesn't shy away to implement or build and iterate upon things Bitcoiners invented.
So Nostr, ecash mints and the seedsigner will all see their Monero equivalents. By the way Monero is the only other project that really cares for what Bitcoiners develop.
And thanks to CEX deliatings and no ETFs ever it's forced to create the right conditions for a circular economy.
Please try monero. Just do 10$ or something, with feather wallet or one of the supported mobile wallets and try a transaction.
You can read about pie, you can research ingredients and even take a pastry course, but unless you taste it, you don't know.
You did the meme
So you only transact in bitcoin only 100% of the time.....all the time?