Attempts to build apps "on top of" Nostr or that "use Nostr" are wrong, harmful and abusive, and will necessarily fail.
Nostr wants open protocols to be built on it, not proprietary shit that is trying to use relays as their private free databases. This behavior should not be encouraged.
wow…who did this…make #[1] mad. No zap for them.
Ethernets vs internet.
I agree. An open protocol distributed with no license is good for the world. I am experiencing problems with some apps and make me mad what some clients do backdoors with weird calculations on how many followers twitter-marketing-like ideas.....
Not convinced by this. I've no objection if people build commercial email client programs on top of SMTP, say, or commercial web browsers. Doesn't affect the underlying protocol.
Unlike code, there is no license enforcement for protocols.
it's funny you think the licenses for code are enforceable
relays can enforce access to only open source software
Do you not then end up back at square one facing the same issue that is being solved?
It boils down to enforcement.
We can’t enforce it. All we can do is encourage and incentivize open development on Nostr and outcompete proprietary usage.
However…what if I built an app and ran my own relays that I published to only for said app that allowed users to interact with it from other clients if adding my relay. That is then using the protocol as an open network as intended but also allowing for any number of additional use cases in which I control my data and don’t abuse it.
Nobody thought we’d send ourselves emails to remind us to take out the trash or dinner with the spouse since we have calendars…but here we are.
Eh... Open protocols are open. Pretty much inevitable that this happens. 🤷♂️
other stuff
yeah that’s what NostrCash is for
I fully agree and unfortunately, if something is made possible, people will just do it. Whether it is good or bad, humans create beautiful things like you did but have a natural ability to also destroy them.
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If nostr's integrity relyes on people being nice and not trying to abuse it, then it has already failed.
Things that last in nature are antyfragile things, that works in reverse, relying on being atacked (up to a point) and getting better the more they are attacked.
In summary maybe the antyfragiel path forward is triying to abuse the hell out of the protocol as fast as possible to figure out eary posible threats.
All the things in the world rely on people being nice. It should come as a surprise to you that most people in the world are indeed nice.
❤️✌️
Deep down I actually find that people are raging optimists. It’s the world that stymies their allowing themselves to act genuinely towards this feeling.
I think that is a bold claim, is hard to measure how much of the good interactions are such because of the implicit capabilities of punishment by others (social or physical) if people deviates from that. Probably that is embedded deep in the unconcient🤔
I think that people indeed are mostrly nice but not because they are harmless but because we're used to interact with others that can do something to enforce a minimum of nice behaviour in us (and the other way around).
As far as I know there has been reaserch in simulating different strategies in societies to see what set of rules were more stable, "tit for tat" was the fist successful strategy so that should say something about the importance of being able to not be nice some times, but more sophisticated models were finded later, all with some sort of variation of a punishment rule.
I don't fully understand what you thing should be tha basis of the soundness of the protocol should be
Assuming relays would be able to deny access to an app like this right? ELI5 plz 😂
Thanks...could you tell us the bad effects of doing so?
People tend to abuse free things
Problem lies in the "free" part of it. It must not be free.
Good for start to attract enthusiasts. But it must be sustainable in the long run, thus paid.
#[0]
relays could make it a condition of use that software using them is under open source license
Nonsense. It's open, Freedom Zero.
If you wanted to control its use, it would necessarily have failed.
As for anthropomorphising it and becoming the arbiter of the desires of a piece of code, in fact not even code, a protocol described in English, is typical of the censorship one thought this project was designed to elude.
I thought it would be fine as long as I hosted the relay but then I was like wait.. why don’t I just use a database?
so what is the right way to phrase it? apps that integrate with nostr? apps built FOR nostr? I thought it's a protocol for notes and other stuff. what is the other stuff, if not anything else?
Nostr is just a protocol isn’t it? Any two nodes can talk in Nostr. If they use public relays, the “databases” are not private
So let's assume I am indexing nostr notes for a search project. Can I still comply by e.g. open sourcing my code, maybe providing a NIP-50 like endpoint? What else can/should I do to atone? (Or should I be morally prohibited to index notes "centrally"?)
It should not be news to you that anything uploaded to the public web is fair game, technically speaking.
There are no good answers, only better questions to ask ourselves:
"Is the likely effect/outcome of my project more likely to ultimately help or hinder the movement towards freedom-orientated tech?"
"Have I thoroughly and deeply considered the ways in which bad actors might leverage my tech towards undesirable ends?"
"If everyone knew what I was doing, would that bother me? If so, why?"
I think all apps should be built on nostr. It’s just a way to share data. Clients can implement many different schemas via the NIP process. Each message should be self describing.
Beautiful to see those qualities! 🤍🕊️What’s your name darling :)
How do you plan to stop someone doing this given the nature of nostr?
The protocol being widely used should be a good thing. Shouldn’t we differentiate between the protocol and the network of nostr relays.
The operators of the network of nostr relays should be able to control access, protocol support, and more.
A network made up of free public, paid public, private, paid content, and hybrid relays can coexist. Same with clients apps.
doesn't the relay DBs have auto expiry by default ?
