Is there anyone who thinks Monero is a shitcoin?
I want to know your reasoning
Discussion
Hopefully I can provide a kind and helpful answer here. While Monero is attractive because of its privacy benefits, similar benefits can be achieved through Bitcoin.
All cryptocurrencies, in my opinion, are shitcoins except for Bitcoin because they are not secured by the vast amount of energy that Bitcoin is secured by.
The PoW energy that supports Bitcoin is what makes it truly something special.
Are you really implying xmr isnt PoW?
It’s not just about whether or not it’s PoW or not. Many shitcoins are PoW. Dogecoin and BTC Cash are PoW.
PoW is progressively more secure the more mining that happens. This is one of the equations in the Bitcoin white paper.
Comparing the PoW of Bitcoin to the PoW of a shitcoin is like comparing a wooden box to a metal safe. Sure, both can secure your funds, but one is far far far more thermodynamically secure than the other.
Ok, I can see your point to a degree. How is monero less secure than btc then? And preferably a real world situation as evidence to the claim, not an opinion.
If a coin is secured by less hash power, then it is easier for a state actor (as an example) to come up with enough hashrate to rewrite the chain. The more energy at your disposable, the more capable you are of creating a longer chain and rewriting the networks history.
This has not happened yet, but it’s possible. It is why Bitcoin is so secure. The amount of energy required to rewrite Bitcoin is immense. This isn’t as true for the others.
Ok fair enough. That said, do you see no problem with Blackrock, in addition to their paper btc in the form of ETFs, is majority share holder in the five largest mining ops? I find that far more troubling, and something that is a real world thing, than some down the road hypothetical. Or Lightning Labs being a proud partner of the WEF? Or the fact that governments love btc, unless you try to add privacy (ie Samaurai)?
While it’s good to be wary of all of that stuff, I certainly do not find it any reason to store my wealth in a less secure network.
Bitcoin is money. Everyone will own money. That is inevitable.
If you wish to own some coin on a network that no powerful entities hold, you will likely never have money that the rest of the world accepts as a medium of exchange.
Those entities hold Bitcoin because it is secured by energy. Energy is power. Bitcoin gives power to anyone that holds it. I can’t say the same for the other coins.
Well if you wanna ignore red flags, thats your choice. But to think there will ever be a situation where the ENTIRE world accepts btc, that's just straight hopium. And as it currently stands, monero is the most used coin for everyday transactions. Btc is fine for long term Im not denying that,, but to shit on monero for literally no reason is just some hive mind shit. Its very useful, without jumping thru hoops for privacy, and all the alleged problems are hypothetical. Blackrock controlling miner companies can do exactly that 'state level' attack you mentioned earlier.
That’s cool, you are entitled to your opinion.
I am a little unsure you quite understand what a chain rewrite would entail, because BlackRock having influence over Bitcoin mining companies certainly does not lead to that possibility. It would require so much more.
I have also rarely ever, maybe never, seen monero being accepted at any merchant I have interacted with.
I pay for my life using bitcoin, I don’t see how that would be remotely possible using monero.
I also very much disagree on many levels that it’s hopium to think the world will move to a Bitocin standard. But this thread of replies is long enough.
Again, I am happy to agree to disagree.
All good bro. Getting late for me anyway. I just wanna say I truly appreciate you actually having this discussion. Quite literally any other time I have tried to have a similar one with a monero hater, the person freaks out and its just retarded. So thank you and have a great night or day or whatever time it is for you 🫡🏴☠️
#breakthestate #anarchy
I used to think that labels were just symbols of pride.
But over time I've seen they only serve to divide...
- Youth of Today, Break Down the Walls
Much respect to you too brotha. Always happy to have a civil conversation.
Not to me
$NIGHT will be better imo.
Monero quotes from current and former BTC maxis:
"Monero is a very good privacy complement to Bitcoin" -Nick Szabo
"I looked at all the other major cryptocurrencies that had adjustable blocksizes and the only one that I thought that didn't completely suck was Monero" -Jameson Lopp
"Maybe you need a Monero" -Michael Saylor
"For really strong privacy, Monero is much better" -Andreas Antonopoulos
"There's a lot of advantages to using Monero" -Matt Odell
"Monero is the only goddamn currency that's used!" -John McAfee
"Monero will be a champion in that space and we'll have a Bitcoin-Monero duopoly" -Max Keiser
"All fiat systems and all tokens outside of Bitcoin and monero (to my knowledge) have middlemen you cannot get rid of" -Adam Curry
"I would say Monero is not a shitcoin. I think it's a very innovative and new research project that works." -Max Hillbrand
"Monero; Just use it. Objectively it's better than Bitcoin [for privacy]...it's obvious" -Amir Taaki
"Monero is closer to our hearts than whatever Bitcoin is turning into today" -Samourai Wallet
"99% of cryptocurrencies are complete and total garbage, but even among the upper echeleon of real ones, Monero is in the top percentile, so it deserves our respect" -Paul Sztorc
"Surprising number of Monero lovers on #Nostr. It’s the only altcoin that I consider has a community of actual cypherpunks with similarly aligned values as bitcoin." -Guy Swann
"Monero has always been the altcoin outlier for me, never a shitcoin because I have a valid use for it that I can't achieve with #bitcoin." -Peter McCormack
"I have an issue when Bitcoiners get so closed-minded and says Moneros a shitcoin. No it's not. There's some brilliant people there and there's a lot to learn...I'm a fan of Monero." -Nicholas Gregory of Mercury Layer
"monero is the best of all Altcoins" -Calle
"To me Monero is the litmus test in Bitcoin...Monero is such a good money just technically" -Ragnar Lifthrasir of Guns N Bitcoin
"There are altcoins out there that have interesting ideas, but they are very very rare...if a couple altcoins exist, like Monero, where they actually have an interesting idea and a different model that's fine." -Peter Todd
"Monero is doing the job that gave btc its start." -Ray Youssef
"No, I don't think that Monero, Zcash, or Litecoin are scams." -Liam Eegan
"Your average Monero person is much more likely than your average Bitcoiner to value: privacy, freedom, cypherpunk values, not bootlicking politicians, etc" - Matthew Kratter
I have never been a Bitcoin maxi but I also agree Monero is good
I have yet to understand why its an either / or for so many people.
Because on a long enough time frame it is either or winner takes all
That doesnt even make sense. Do you use a hammer when a screw driver is needed? Different tools for different jobs.
What do you see the current trade offs / tool set looking like?
Monero for spending, btc (and gold and silver, to keep everything digital is pure madness and very short sighted) for long term.
Why wouldn't i just save in monero?
Privacy means more complicated supply audit process which might mean it always loses the contest of value growth (unclear though)
Paper bitcoin has created more bitcoin then the protocol dictates and your worried about not understanding how to do monero supply audit?
Paper Bitcoin isn't Bitcoin and I feel full certainty saying that
Idk if Monero could have counterfeit coins on its chain so I wouldn't put too much of my savings in Monero
Thats a you problem for not auditing
Nope, there's no point auditing when it would be too complex to explain to everyone and thus not change the result that Monero is perceived as potentially having counterfeit coins
Why did you even need this explained? Seems like you're discussing this in bad faith, wasting my time with bullshit
Have at it. Not saying anyone shouldnt, but for me, thats for spending not saving. Diversification.
I think thats a current time issue that we have to deal with but on a long enough time frame the money will be chosen. In the 19th century you didn't have to diversify the money everyone was in consensus that it was gold
And silver and copper... at minimum
Those where scaling solutions
What do you mean?
People used silver and copper because they couldn't reasonably carry and pay with gold flakes of gold for coffee. The exchange rate was often price controled by the gov for example 15:1. When the gov removed those price controls the free market heavily preferred gold and it sucked up the liquidity from the economy.
The answer you already got was good but I would say:
Monero for purchases of all sizes, some donations
Doggie coin for savings, donations of all sizes, some purchases
Bitcoin for savings, donations, and purchases, especially for large amounts
Gold/silver also for savings
Why would i need to use all these. Sounds over complicated?
The world is complicated and all of these are worth using. You don't have to use them, you just have certain risks and limitations for each one you take out. E.g. less privacy if not using Monero
Ok so what are those risks what are the trade offs. Thats what im asking
Universal: remove one, lose more if whatever else you put it in dies/is lost
No doggie coin: more risk of ending up with weaker buying power than other people, if doggie coin continues growing faster than Bitcoin
No Monero: more risk of police state rising up, more risk of being blamed for stuff, possibly more risk of being robbed due to people knowing how much money you have, etc.
No Bitcoin: can't use with retailers that only accept Bitcoin, etc.
No silver: more risk of ending up with weaker buying power, if silver to gold ratio continues historic patterns
No gold: more risk of ending up with nothing if electronics fail, unless you have lots of silver anyway
So mostly your decision is based on fomo
What are you talking about?
I just think that the free market will settle on one coin that will do it all scale/trustlessness/privacy. A god protocol.
How? Why would that happen, how could it even work?
Because its inefficient to work intercoin for trade because of market volitility. Eventually everyone just will want to join the biggest chain that can accommodate privacy and scale without the risk of being rugged by custodial scaling solutions
Then why are there silver holders and a Bitcoin inventor instead of just everyone using gold?
And what's the actual process? Like can you explain with step 1 step 2 step 3 etc how people will stop using gold?
Gold isn't used as money and hasn't been for some time. I don't really have the process mapped out its just what I think the market will gravitate too in seeking efficiency
Gold is definitely used as money and has been for all of recorded history... You're not making sense
Who pays for things in gold
That's not true but even if true would still seem like a reason to want both, not either/or
Have any qualifying statements to make regarding this?
Not sure what you mean, I just definitely want both if one is gonna be gone someday
Why
Idk what one will be gone, and if I thought I knew, I'd be concerned about that backfiring on me
So you dont want both you want the one that wins and your hedging your bet
Since I remember you saying fucked up shit to me in the past, I've gotta point out that your wording makes it sound like we're not discussing a hypothetical you presented, and I assume that's not an accident
But also, what are you even saying? How do you suggest you'd hedge your bet without holding both in this case?
I'm saying hypothetically it would be more efficient if there was just one that could do it all and you wouldn't need to hedge
Maybe, but that could also help power consolidate into a small group of people over time and then backfire
If a consolidated group of power seeked rent based on position then a new coin with better decentralition would outcompete the rent seeking
Then that's not just one
Eventually we solve the problems and have the coin
Seems unlikely, like people would always keep things changing instead
Theres not really an endless improvement to money. There are a number of attributes and i think they can be perfected in crypto.
None of them said that BS
Lol cope.
I really don't feel like digging for every single quote and timestamp on a Friday but here is most of them.
"Monero is a very good privacy complement to Bitcoin" -Nick Szabo
https://x.com/NickSzabo4/status/1347088215941861377
"I looked at all the other major cryptocurrencies that had adjustable blocksizes and the only one that I thought that didn't completely suck was Monero" -Jameson Lopp
"Maybe you need a Monero" -Michael Saylor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccJ33hLaMF0
"For really strong privacy, Monero is much better" -Andreas Antonopoulos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC5vHoTX6fE
"There's a lot of advantages to using Monero" -Matt Odell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TbpvcAE5Eg
"Monero is the only goddamn currency that's used!" -John McAfee
https://youtu.be/FnKrMKo_WlU?t=398
"I would say Monero is not a shitcoin. I think it's a very innovative and new research project that works." -Max Hillbrand
"Monero is closer to our hearts than whatever Bitcoin is turning into today" -Samourai Wallet
https://x.com/SamouraiWallet/status/1298678086276468738
"Surprising number of Monero lovers on #Nostr. It’s the only altcoin that I consider has a community of actual cypherpunks with similarly aligned values as bitcoin." -Guy Swann
"Monero has always been the altcoin outlier for me, never a shitcoin because I have a valid use for it that I can't achieve with #bitcoin." -Peter McCormack
https://x.com/PeterMcCormack/status/1536319095490199552
"I have an issue when Bitcoiners get so closed-minded and says Moneros a shitcoin. No it's not. There's some brilliant people there and there's a lot to learn...I'm a fan of Monero." -Nicholas Gregory of Mercury Layer
"To me Monero is the litmus test in Bitcoin...Monero is such a good money just technically" -Ragnar Lifthrasir of Guns N Bitcoin
https://youtu.be/hFJu4TDRxUo?t=1961
"There are altcoins out there that have interesting ideas, but they are very very rare...if a couple altcoins exist, like Monero, where they actually have an interesting idea and a different model that's fine." -Peter Todd
"Monero is doing the job that gave btc its start." -Ray Youssef
https://x.com/ray_noOnes/status/1801333939379851539
"No, I don't think that Monero, Zcash, or Litecoin are scams." -Liam Eegan
"Your average Monero person is much more likely than your average Bitcoiner to value: privacy, freedom, cypherpunk values, not bootlicking politicians, etc" - Matthew Kratter
Anyone who do, exposes their own lack of knowledge and basic intelligence. (Non-Player Characters)
It's not ideal that bitcoin has a better NGU. That isn't the fault of monero, it's a fault of society.
If there is they probably muted you and this post already.