Nostr Web Client

"We've allowed" is key there. The one who allowed them in is duty bound to vet them prior to letting them in, or give due process when unallowing them. The money can be found/printed if required.

It's not acceptable to deport the wrong people accidentally, it's like fishing using a bottom trawl.

Peter Todd 8mo ago

“The money can be found/printed if required.”

Nonsense. Money isn't magic. There just aren't enough judges and lawyers out there to make it happen. Printing unlimited money would not change that.

The fact is _all_ systems make mistakes. Due process doesn't entirely stop innocent people from being harmed either.

Tom 8mo ago

Due process would minimise the risk. Money can and does get printed. Executive orders can and do redirect it. So it's possible.

A "shoot first and asking questions later" approach seems a tad antiquated.

Or "guilty until proven innocent".

Think about the energy required to undo the harm done to one person getting mistakenly deported. The legal battles, lawsuits etc. Suddenly due process makes more sense.

bf

Gabe 8mo ago

“The compromise is some innocent people will be wronged” … i’m gonna hope you misspoke here because if not, fucking gross dude.

Same energy as “privacy tools should be banned so we can better catch criminals, some innocent people will be wronged but overall it will decrease crime”.

Tom 8mo ago

Completely agree. Wanted to zap you but you don't have a wallet yet so just liked and replied to say so.

Peter Todd 8mo ago

The fact we put anyone in jail, or deport anyone at all, is obviously a compromise because any legal system will make mistakes. You're just being absolutist in a ridiculous, obviously counterproductive way.

bf

Gabe 8mo ago

I’m not absolutist, I’d rather the compromise be “the legal system made a mistake” than what you’re advocating for which is bypassing the legal system entirely.

If the legal system makes a mistake there is at least a path to fixing the mistake. If there aren’t enough judges or lawyers and it takes too long, the legal system needs to be changed.

Its like you’re creating different classes of people. Some people have rights, others don’t?

Rounding up and deporting people en masse seems like a very dangerous precedent to set. Hopefully the next administration doesn’t decide you and I are environmental terrorists because we use bitcoin, and we belong in a foreign prison.

Rojo 8mo ago

Would you keep that same energy if you were deported?

OceanSlim 8mo ago

Can't get deported if you never enter a country illegally...

Abstract Equilibrium 8mo ago

Anyone who can't forcefully resist can be deported ("sent away from the ports") to anywhere at any time for any reason.

The only thing that prevents that is morality & law. Both may be lacking in the case of this administration.

OceanSlim 8mo ago

We deported him because he broke the law... By coming into the country illegally. I don't see a fault of morality or law here?

Rojo 8mo ago

This wasn’t about entering illegally. It’s about being deported without proper cause.

OceanSlim 8mo ago

Is coming in illegally not proper cause to report someone? Isn't that inferred in the "illegal" part...

Rojo 8mo ago

You’re not understanding. My response was due to the fact that Peter was saying, even if a few people who were here legally were deported it’s fine because the illegals are being deported. I asked him if he would keep that same energy if he was deported after being here legally.

OceanSlim 8mo ago

No of course not. Nor would you have the same energy if it was a family member or friend. But that's just a bias.

Rojo 8mo ago

Agreed. That’s the point I was trying to make. Peter’s okay with legal getting deported.

Jameson Lopp 8mo ago 💬 14

Blackstone's Ratio: it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer.

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freemymind 🇨🇭 8mo ago

Thanks. Since this is forcing the monopoly of power for proper legitimation. Since when the power monopoly of the state is not legitimized, through proportionality and reducing harm, how would this power be just?

finity 8mo ago

Is that why you support the murder of 15000 kids in Gaza without due process?

Nobody trusts you anymore.

Bill Cypher 8mo ago

I've hard this name around but didn't know or care enough to look them up.

Finally boosted into my feed and I found out they like to post bad statist takes. I guess I wasn't missing anything.

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Kingbee 8mo ago 💬 3

I've spent literally more hours than I can count contemplating this including El Salvador, the US, and the world. When considering the whole ball of wax (I'm a beekeeper), it's extremely difficult to figure out the perfect solution. It's not just black and white. I honestly understand what Peter and Vitor are saying and sympathize with both. Peter has a point with violent people, gangs, etcetera but Vitor also has a point. Lack of due process is a very slippery slope. It leads to bad things also. In El Salvador, Bukele is becoming a dictator, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Somehow the solution cannot lead to a dictator. Bitcoin will help fix some but not all of our problems. It gives people sound money but doesn't stop violent bad people.

Unrelated, penalties against white collar criminals who defraud people out of millions need to be much stiffer.

OK, I have a headache again from contemplation. I need a Gummi. Somebody let me know when you have it all figured out. I'll be relieved if it's a solution that makes sense to me. ☮️ 💜🫂

nostr:nevent1qqsfgqc3chhwkn57v3d2c9488qjel2wg56encat8aw8hvz0ayjk4gyqpz3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezummcw3ezuer9wcpzpn92tr3hexwgt0z7w4qz3fcch4ryshja8jeng453aj4c83646jxvqvzqqqqqqy94fnz7

2f

BossHawgDawg 8mo ago 💬 1

They are not citizens...they have no rights!

Matthew D 8mo ago

But they are humans, and humans have rights.

Kayne 8mo ago

They are deporting white USA born American citizens for criticising zionism

Vitor Pamplona 8mo ago

Bullshit. Due process is a requirement in this country. Even if you killed other people, you are still innocent until proven in court. The fact that it is expensive is the government of own fault.

Peter Todd 8mo ago

Nope. The US has different due process standards for all kinds of different situations. This is a situation where the scale of the problem is so huge that due process standards simply have to be diminished.

All sane, non-suicidal, societies do this. That's why pretty much every country has a martial law mechanism. Indeed, I'm in Kyiv at the moment, and subject to martial law. One of the reasons why I can (relatively) safely be here is because normal standards of due process have been diminished.

Vitor Pamplona 8mo ago

Dont confuse war time with peace time.

Peter Todd 8mo ago

As I said, the scale of the illegal/undesirable immigration problem in the west is such that it's closer to war than a pure policing operation.

Tens of millions of people have been allowed in who need to be deported.

freemymind 🇨🇭 8mo ago

But you know that this is mostly pure populism. Almost no good numbers to show a real problem. There is more problems within your mind, then there is problems caused by migration. Its called populism. Only because many people say migration is problematic, does not actually make it problematic.

Peter Todd 8mo ago

"populism" 😂

The facts are they the west is experiencing dramatic increases in crime in many locations because of terrible immigration policies. Many classes of non-(white/asian/Jewish) immigrants are _far_ more violent than the native populations. Those people damn well should be forced out.

freemymind 🇨🇭 8mo ago

Yes I dfnitly agree pushing out criminals by their second overstepping. And then even when their home country is violating human rights and they have to fear death.

All with you. But for this we have all capabilities within normal law and order. The only missing part would be creating the laws for this.

Laeserin 🇻🇦 8mo ago

Hmm. Yes. But flooding a country with foreigners, in order to undermine the native population, is a form of asymmetric warfare waged by the government upon the citizenry.

I suspect many Americans consider themselves to be in a civil war, and the mass migration is part of that. That means the migrants are part of a military conflict and fair game.

Peter Todd 8mo ago

Hell, in a different context flooding countries with foreigners would (quite rightfully) be considered a form of genocide. It's well accepted in international law that trying to dilute a native population out of existence via immigration is genocide. Tibet (Han migration) and occupied Ukraine (Russians) both being recent examples.

There are certainly people in western countries whose hatred of white people is sufficiently nutty they their goal with unrestricted immigration is to genocide the white population out of existence (also, Jewish and Asian populations in some cases).

Vitor Pamplona 8mo ago

Still, this is not war. You cant just make up a war on your mind to justify your actions.

Peter Todd 8mo ago

I'm welcome to make the argument that it's an emergency. As are politicians... Which is exactly what is happening.

Vitor Pamplona 8mo ago

Emergencies are not wars. Made up emergencies are also not emergencies. Wasn't COVID bad enough? You want another "emergency"?

Laeserin 🇻🇦 8mo ago

Not all emergencies are wars, but all wars are emergencies.

I would posit that COVID was an emergency, but the response was too draconian. Almost comical, in its ad nauseum absurdity. I feel the same way about remigration, but the side willing to listen to me complain about respecting due process was the same side ignoring me about securing the borders.

Either you have sensible laws and respect them, or you don't.

I no longer expect either the German or American governments to have sensible laws and respect them, so I'm increasingly indifferent to it all. I still have an opinion, but I'm all outraged-out and I'm hardly paying attention.

And I strongly suspect I'm not alone in that.

Peter Todd 8mo ago

COVID at the beginning was a potential emergency. But we should have figured out quickly from the overwhelming scientific evidence that it wasn't actually an emergency, and lifted all restrictions.

Instead, we artificially turned it into an emergency by fucking up society – and the medical system – for political reasons.

Getting the psychopaths responsible for this out of society is it self an emergency. Because they're probably going to do it again; they already tried to before with the H1N1 fraud.

Laeserin 🇻🇦 8mo ago

Yes, I'm glad the FDP was still in government, at the time.

Laeserin 🇻🇦 8mo ago

Furthermore, I think that obstracizing and demonizing Catholic conservatives, like myself, for nearly a decade, was a terrible own-goal for the liberal left. Those political chickens are coming home to roost, now. We're naturally more center-right, and we've always been willing to listen, but we got pushed away.

I have not forgotten that I was banned from Twitter, twice, nearly lost my employment and was reported to government panels, for saying that there are two biological sexes and that abortion stops a beating heart.

I am no longer angry, but I am wary.

Also, there are only two biological sexes and abortion stops a beating heart. Thank God for Nostr.

Yousif #fuck_jews 8mo ago 💬 1

idgaf, just tell your nephews to leave kids alone

Kayne 8mo ago

Always the ones you most expect eh

39

Unused 8mo ago

Hey what about violent, non productive Americans?!?

Cincy 8mo ago

this is complete bullshit

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DisparateBits 8mo ago

There are a lot of rapists in this country Peter, a huge backlog of untested rape kits. Costs a lot of money to investigate and test dna.

Maybe we should just kill or castrate alleged rapists without due process.

How would you feel about that, I wonder?

Peter Todd 8mo ago

The US does not have a society threatening problem with rape; the US did have a (somewhat) society threatening problem with false rape allegations, and I've personally been a victim of that.

The UK on the other hand does have a society threatening problem with with Muslim rape gangs (mainly Pakistani). In _that_ case, yes, it absolutely would be justified to reduce standards of due process to get the Muslims perpetrating that crime out of the UK. Although equally, the UK doesn't actually need to reduce due process standards by much to solve the problem: court cases have established beyond a reasonable doubt that a remarkably high percentage of the Pakistani Muslim population are rapists.

DisparateBits 8mo ago

That’s a lotta words to just admit you don’t give a fuck unless it’s your own ass on the line.

Peter Todd 8mo ago

I'm a Canadian, and visit the US and EU often, so wrongful deportation does affect me.

DisparateBits 8mo ago

we both know white people like us ain’t the ones that gotta worry about deportation.

yet.

NostrDamus 8mo ago

coming from someone who praised those signing bombs to be dropped on ukraine/russia.

Peter Todd 8mo ago

It's a war. Obviously the people dropping bombs on Russians are stopping innocent people from dying.

CptKook 8mo ago

Fuck you, piece of shit

Christoph Ono 8mo ago 💬 1

Disturbing statement.

🇵🇸 whoever loves Digit 8mo ago

Peter Todd is a Nazi, all he does is make disturbing statements

Dozer 8mo ago 💬 2

Apparently the guy was a MS13 member and was in the United States illegally. That being said, El Salvador should probably evaluate this person and make that decision for themselves. Mass incarceration is bad, breaking laws deserves consequences, most laws are designed to trap you, people in power are blind. Keep your friends and family safe and stand up for the ones you love.

acronym 8mo ago

The US admitted they made an error when they sent this guy. If he truly was a gang member, why say it was an error and would they not have also presented some MS13 evidence in their multiple court hearings?

I also question whether criminals at this level are holding down full time job to support their families.

Dozer 8mo ago 💬 1

I’d like to think that El Salvador has some background info on this person since he is a citizen of El Salvador Hopefully they take this international attention to look into these claims.

acronym 8mo ago

He was already cleared of gang accusations in US court a few years ago and that is why he was allowed to stay. You seem to be saying it is acceptable to contract out US democracy.

Dozer 8mo ago 💬 1

Understood,It seems like I don’t have the facts. So he was in court a few years ago for something, was cleared of being in a gang and then allowed to stay in the US on some type of visa or asylum request? He was then detained by ICE I’m guessing and deported with his old gang members who he had no affiliation with. I’m not for contracting out US democracy.

acronym 8mo ago

Reports are he never was a gang member and fled El Salvador originally as a teen to avoid being recruited into a gang. It is my understanding he was in US court a few years ago not because he got into trouble, but to establish his right to remain in the US ad someone with no status.

Kayne 8mo ago

So a group of pedophiles told you that everyone who criticise israel are ms13??

🤔Hmm now I wonder who benefits from you believing that..

Dozer 8mo ago

Please don’t kill me 😅

🇵🇸 whoever loves Digit 8mo ago

Nazi scumbag

BaronBurdock 8mo ago

I worry where this thinking leads. We certainly fuck up due process a lot, and yet due process is a fundamental western value. If we we just toss it whenever its convenient, and consistently do so, at what point do we cease being the West?

beejay 8mo ago

Tens of millions? Citation?

97

97390b44... 8mo ago

This man supported killing innocent people in Ukraine, supported the mass slaughter of Palestinians, showed he was genocidal and now he supports removing due process so innocent people can be sent to a prison abroad with no way of ever getting out. Absolutely disgusting that this man happens to be an imp figure in Bitcoin. 🤢

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samuel 8mo ago

Is it the immigrants fault that the US had an open border policy?

These immigrant’s transit was funded by NGOs they were ignorant to the process?

You seem happy to skip on recompense from them (the NGOs)?

Why should tax payers flip the bill at this point. Close the border and move on.

Peter Todd 8mo ago

If the US hadn't had that policy they wouldn't even be here. So returning them is just getting back to the status quo.

The _lack_ of consequence is one reason why this is acceptable: in most of these removal cases the US is _not_ punishing the person being removed in any meaningful way. They're just being returned to where they came from.

samuel 8mo ago

Trump is a man of his word, this is what he ran on and he is delivering.

I agree due process is not possible.

Even if it was our courts SUCK!

freemymind 🇨🇭 8mo ago

But you do know, that it is not exclusively people from el salvador, that get deported to prisons in el salvador?

Sorry to steal this illusion. It is not about deporting people back to their country.

Peter Todd 8mo ago

Find an example of someone _not_ from El Salvador who was deported to El Salvador. I haven't actually found one yet – there's been claims. But they turn out to be El Salvadorans when their background is investigated more fully.

There probably will be the occasional mistake. But that isn't proving to be very common.

freemymind 🇨🇭 8mo ago

https://youtu.be/E8BZADrecac

I think Trump is very clear with his intentions. No misunderstanding. He is willing to deport US citizen to the prisons of el salvador. Due to the reality, that court decisions are not respected, what do you need to hear more to see the problem?

Vitor and I say the current president is activly working to take apart the US democracy. Can you agree with this claim? And do you defend this destruction too? Can you read yourself how your words are defending authoritarian regimes for their methods in general?

freemymind 🇨🇭 8mo ago

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2025-04-10/about-90-of-migrants-sent-to-el-salvador-lacked-u-s-criminal-record

Really? Here it is actually proven to be very common. 90% of expelled people have no criminal record in the US. People are from Venezuela and El Salvador. In which part is there any mention about your occasional mistake? It is rather occasionally there is someone expelled for wrong doing.

YODL 8mo ago

Good points. Hard to argue with the practical issues of scale

e2

Wonteet Zebugs 8mo ago

Horrible take for someone who cares about freedom. The country with the international reserve currency and military bases around the world can't afford due process? No. It's a matter of priorities. There's always enough money for bombing people around the world it seems, just not enough for due process.

Peter Todd 8mo ago

Dunno if you've noticed but the US is in debt...

And lately, who are they bombing? The Houthies clearly deserve it. If anything, the US is making the mistake of spending too much money on carefully targeted attacks rather than just wiping out the Houthies cheaply.

e2

Wonteet Zebugs 8mo ago

Who is the US bombing? You're trolling right? US money and weapons in Ukraine, causing a genocide in Gaza, bombing the Houthis who represent ZERO national security threat to the US, just for starters "lately". Go back a few years and you have the destruction of Libya, Afghanistan, Irak (500,000 dead iraki children, "it was worth it"-Albraith), and more.

The profile says Peter Todd but I'm starting to think I've been had. It can't be Peter Todd, the bitcoin developer.

Ron Paul Rips Government in Last House Speech

'Our Constitution ... has failed,' said the libertarian in likely his last speech from the House floor.

By Kenneth T. Walsh, Nov. 15, 2012, at 8:06 a.m.

https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/ken-walshs-washington/2012/11/15/ron-paul-rips-government-in-last-house-speech

"Our Constitution, which was intended to limit government power and abuse, has failed," the Texas Republican said in what he described as probably his last speech on the House floor before he retires this year. "The founders warned that a free society depends on a virtuous and moral people. The current crisis reflects that their concerns were justified."

"All branches of our government today are controlled by individuals who use their power to undermine liberty and enhance the welfare/warfare state, and frequently their own wealth and power," Paul said.

He added: "If it's not accepted that big government, fiat money, ignoring liberty, central economic planning, welfarism, and warfarism caused our crisis, we can expect a continuous and dangerous march toward corporatism and even fascism with even more loss of our liberties."

Peter Todd 8mo ago

"US money and weapons in Ukraine"

..which is obviously preventing a genocide, by Russia, of Ukrainians. Just the other day Russia intentionally massacred dozens of Ukrainian civilians with two ballistic missile strikes to central Sumy, right when be streets would be busiest due to a Christian holiday. And the second missile was a few minutes later, to try to kill rescuers.

If you can't accept that talking to you is pointless because you're either evil or delusional.

e2

Wonteet Zebugs 8mo ago

If you don't see the role that the US and Europe had in causing this war, talking to you is indeed pointless.

Syd 💎 8mo ago

“it’s an emergency so fuck civil liberties and the bill of rights” was how the government justified 6102

Peter Todd 8mo ago 💬 1

It's also how the government justified WW2. And fighting the Nazis was the correct thing to do.

Syd 💎 8mo ago

You’re making a great case for forced vaccinations

Peter Todd 8mo ago

Force vaccinations would be acceptable if the vaccines actually worked and the disease was actually an existential threat to society. COVID failed that test on both counts.

Syd 💎 8mo ago

I find it hard to believe that you don’t see the problem in the subjectiveness in defining an “emergency” for the sake of revoking civil rights.

DZC 8mo ago

Do you realise that you are using Nazi's arguments, right?

🙄

Bitcoin Dad 8mo ago

First they came for the immigrants...

freemymind 🇨🇭 8mo ago

I doubt, that this aproach of utalitarianism will lead us to more free society. Maby it can be a first step out of a pure gang controlled system as they have had it in el Salvador.

But since in the US there is a working juristic system, there is no advantage in getting a more just system through ignoring juristic decision.

Since without no doubt, a system where anyone can be putten to prison without a sentence, no one is free. So defnitly the US is not winning any freedom, when judges are disrespected by the president. The same as the freedom of speech is not improved, when members of the press are defamed for asking questions.

67

Life is launched directly on the mainnet 8mo ago 💬 1

Are you really this dumb? Bitcoiners are really this dumb? Fortunately Bitcoin is smarter than bitcoiners

TheBitcoinBattery 8mo ago

Not all of us. nevent1qqsv28m6mnl5j7utwzhwhp8tj2992xuxt7j4ckynm2tj2zmead73h4gppamhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5pzpd7063e0lyp5g8kxe42mk5r0jazzzxnwdrjj2fw5y3z3dx76q066qvzqqqqqqym8f7yl

Anton Isidore 8mo ago

We are all immigrants.

OceanSlim 8mo ago

We can print as much as we need to ensure rights aren't violated right?

Faroaldo 8mo ago

Asking for due process in this case is just asking for a way to find some legal trickery to get away with law.

More immigrants = more violence and crime. This is just a fact, in Europe.

Kayne 8mo ago

Meanwhile in real life those gangsters are actually being brainwashed to create terrorists to be used against other countries..

Oh no it's just a coincidence that Syria is full of tatted up Hispanics now

2B7C89526 ⚡️🏴‍☠️ 8mo ago

This would be a reasonable trade-off if, even a mistake made is discovered, it is quickly corrected, but that is not the case here, and this unwillingness to correct the mistake undermines your argument for reasonableness, and results in the opposite effect, and unwillingness to even consider reasonable enforcement.

sitting at an airport bar 8mo ago

Awful white of you

Tristan Brice Velloza Kildaire 7mo ago

Coming from Mr Collateral Damage Todd, this would be expected of you.

Collectivist mindrot.

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