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Expatriotic
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I'm glad you understand what a non sequitur is. And here I was thinking you were an absolute moron

Define this.

You say "this" is a stupid argument.

But

1. I never argued Monero is better money than Bitcoin

2. I had a list of different points. Which of them were "this" which is singular. Or are you completely incapable of comprehending nuance.

Yes, I get paid $100 every time you use monero. Please use it! Please!!!

Replying to Avatar rafael_xmr

GM

nostr:npub168euw93e4cam59llcmydav0akwjk2p4nfy3p85pn22xv9y2jxuzq4s9uaw more account time added with :orange:

nostr:npub1y69efz664d96krj5xrhync707ythdncc8hunkvs4n7t8pm25zj2snkwae6 VPS invoice paid with :orange:

nostr:npub1j9qyxka5lck4tw50v7qfrs6gdwczz5ydt7ugqy6nhuva9p6dpy5q8rs2yg gift cards 🚗 🛒 paid with :orange:

RoboSats / Retoswap :transparent: 🔀 :default: traded more ṩats for mɱs

#monero #bitcoin

monero.com app is really good. Horrible name, good app

New territory on stacker news.

https://stacker.news/~monero

First post announcing it.

https://stacker.news/items/877547/r/expatriotic

## Calling all from the #monero and #privacy on #nostr to help shift the conversation that takes place on stacker.news

```People have questions. They don't even know where to get monero.```

Also I made two monero posts on SN before my territory went live.

1. "Monero Shill" in the cryptocurrency territory. https://stacker.news/items/877476/r/expatriotic

2. "The privacy discussion of LN versus Monero as a Bitcoin layer 2." In the privacy territory. https://stacker.news/items/877460/r/expatriotic

💯

These are all the same points that I constantly go round and round with LN maxis. There are several metrics you can look at to see that LN is largely custodial users and so the full potential privacy benefits of LN don't apply to vast majority of it's users. That's obviously because of it's horrid UX of using privately.

1. "find my transaction" is a funny one because they are sort of right. If I'm using Wallet of Satoshi I'm pretty private from the general public, but that isn't the only threat. You're not private at all from Wallet of Satoshi, hackers/data leaks that get access to that centralized information (data breaches happen constantly), and governments that coerce WoS into giving them that info. It's similar privacy to a bank.

2. Very common misdirection tactic: Transactional privacy --> SoV

3. Yep pretty nuanced and depends how the person you're arguing with uses it.

4. "The market is right" as they often say. I think if Lightning started off with similar ease of sovereign UX (and default blinded paths) it would be probably be competitive with Monero on DNMs. But that still isnt the case and it would take a lot to change current inertia especially with Monero being able to support L2s soon.

5. High fees onchain translate to problems transacting on LN. This happens every time there is a high fee environment - like early last year for example.

ASINQ already tell us we have no privacy from them:

https://phoenix.acinq.co/faq#how-private-are-my-payments-on-phoenix

https://phoenix.acinq.co/privacy#lightning-privacy

Not sure if you've listened to this conversation about the nuances of LN vs Monero privacy with SuperTestNet and Luke Parker:

https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1824429972976467968/vid/avc1/1280x720/l3yDSpkAxQhHIWN6.mp4?tag=14

It stopped playing at minute 49... Couldn't find this on the Opt Out podcast on Podverse

Replying to Avatar Expatriotic

I've been on nostr for about a week.

In that time I've observed an argument between two camps.

LN vs Monero.

I've observed some issues with this argument that will result in it never being resolved. For LN advocates, take note.

Follow me ⤵️

1. LN advocates saying "find my transaction". This is problematic because this is something a nation state or WoS COULD do... But not me. So stop asking. We get that LN is a network. Also what about receiver privacy? Which is distinct from senders. Is everyone (and every LN flavor) using trampoline, MPP, blinded routes, taproot etc.? See argument number 3.

2. LN advocates talking about Bitcoin being a better store of value than monero. Sure. Okay. But I'm not convinced this is compelling. First of all, most people on nostr actually use bitcoin as a SoV already, so it's a moot point. Plus, the LN vs monero argument is about payments anyway. Eg the BEST way to make LN is custodially anyway, and most people say, "don't worry, I only have a small amount with custodians, for use as a proxy for receiving or to spend more easily." Okay, well many people use monero similarly, only holding enough for some payments for the next month or so. But at least with monero one has the benefit of not relying on a custodian.a

3. It's actually impossible to argue with someone about LN because of how many ways it can be run. Fully custodially or super hardcore mode. And each one has problems. But this makes it effectively impossible to argue against because the goal posts can just keep shifting. I call this the infinite edge case problem.

4. LN advocates need to think about why DNMs have no desire to receive LN payments. If LN gets good enough from a UX and DEFAULT privacy perspective, it might see more adoption by privacy advocates.

As if a DNM wants to manage the help tickets that would flood in from the barrage of people complaining about failed payments.

5. Anecdotally, I remember during the high fee environment I got really into the idea of only using LN.

So I set up Blixt and got tons of inbound liquidity (which cost me over 200,000 sats), only to have constant issues with RoboSats and payment failures. It's NOT a panacea when one tries to do it self sovereignly.

And IF ASINQ or WoS or LNbig are always one hop away we need to really ask ourselves if we have the privacy we think we do. Or are we trusting these super nodes to be benevolent.

💯

These are all the same points that I constantly go round and round with LN maxis. There are several metrics you can look at to see that LN is largely custodial users and so the full potential privacy benefits of LN don't apply to vast majority of it's users. That's obviously because of it's horrid UX of using privately.

1. "find my transaction" is a funny one because they are sort of right. If I'm using Wallet of Satoshi I'm pretty private from the general public, but that isn't the only threat. You're not private at all from Wallet of Satoshi, hackers/data leaks that get access to that centralized information (data breaches happen constantly), and governments that coerce WoS into giving them that info. It's similar privacy to a bank.

2. Very common misdirection tactic: Transactional privacy --> SoV

3. Yep pretty nuanced and depends how the person you're arguing with uses it.

4. "The market is right" as they often say. I think if Lightning started off with similar ease of sovereign UX (and default blinded paths) it would be probably be competitive with Monero on DNMs. But that still isnt the case and it would take a lot to change current inertia especially with Monero being able to support L2s soon.

5. High fees onchain translate to problems transacting on LN. This happens every time there is a high fee environment - like early last year for example.

ASINQ already tell us we have no privacy from them:

https://phoenix.acinq.co/faq#how-private-are-my-payments-on-phoenix

https://phoenix.acinq.co/privacy#lightning-privacy

Not sure if you've listened to this conversation about the nuances of LN vs Monero privacy with SuperTestNet and Luke Parker:

https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1824429972976467968/vid/avc1/1280x720/l3yDSpkAxQhHIWN6.mp4?tag=14

HMU on Signal @expatriotic.01

I can pay you with monero for the dollars

Was about to sit down and write a guide. But shenanigans on stacker.news had me go a different way.

Just made two monero posts on SN

1. "Monero Shill" <https://stacker.news/items/877476/r/expatriotic>

2. "The privacy discussion of LN versus Monero as a Bitcoin layer 2." <https://stacker.news/items/877460/r/expatriotic>

#privacy

#monero

Time to write another guide.

For sure, Bitcoin not tied to your identity is awesome! I mine Bitcoin and never buy KYC. Did you mean to comment on my post or a different monero maxi post?

This post was to help educate LN advocates about some of the difficulties with their argumentation. Or maybe you didn't read it? Only reason I can think you'd post such a non sequitur.