Subnostr

#1 this isn't wholely true - to obtain Monero in large amounts you have an insanely challenging problem & will probably leave a trail behind for capture, this is why the mining protocol sucks & they should've stuck with ASICs:

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/police-arrest-man-for-laundering-tens-of-millions-in-stolen-crypto/

#2 I'm happy people who cheated their way to riches (see above) get absolutely fucked, this is why I want a public ledger - so we can audit - not recreate the black box fiat system for crooked leaders to abuse.

Here's another example of Monero use case due to ASIC forking, it wasn't a good idea, but the real use case of Monero is stealing of resources (direct & indirect):

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/japanese-police-arrest-16-individuals-123213014.html

#3 Liquidity is a real issue for spending Monero, & so is liquidity on BISQ, Robosats, & basically all methods of acquiring Monero (see first link above).

This leads to real users obtaining privacy, meanwhile not giving thiefs & other criminals an easy way out to dominate the network's usage.

Imho this is a feature not a bug.

#4 Monero can have privacy leaks we are not aware of, & we can not be sure about the future. That's why hard forks are consistently executed. This is known in privacy tech & why people usually still protect themselves by using public computers:

https://crypto.news/monero-privacy-bug-decreased-anonymity-for-3-years/

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

#1 #3 You can get Monero KYC free easily. If you need huge amounts, buy Bitcoin KYC free -> swap to Monero. Tada!

#2 Doesn't make sense. It's either private for everyone or no one. You can't have it both traceable for criminals and private for honest users.

#4 Weak point too. You are worried about hypothetical future "privacy leaks" while your blockchain is completely public. Concern trolling. If you would read that article you would see it was only an increase in probability of choosing sender, wasn't deterministic. And even if they guessed correctly they would STILL NOT KNOW amount sent OR who the reciever was.

You cant do necessary upgrades in the privacy arms race without hardforks. The code is FOSS that is all that matters. If slim chance that all devs and maintainers nefariously collaborate we will just fork the project like we did from Bitmonero.

Replying to

smoak

Ok NGU bro. You follow Saylor too most likely.

Just to confirm to any Bitcoiner that reads this in the future, your previous statements on "criminals" mean you believing Ross should remain in prison for his double life sentence for his "crimes"? You hate criminals in bitcoin right?

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

They love NGU even if FreedomGoDown. They will learn, or get burned and learn after.

Replying to

ShiShi21m

Bitcoin has great privacy, with the largest anonset out of any cryptocurrency in the world.

Claiming it doesn't is proof of 🤡.

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

If you knew how Ring sigs worked you would know Monero anon set is larger.

KYC coin (Very few CEXes have Monero, users more privacy conscious obviously)

Institutional coin (institutions scared on Monero)

Users who don't coinjoin (Monero is private by default)

Users who don't use tor/i2p don't count (dandelion++ mitigates this with Monero).

That small fraction left is your bitcoin anonset

Replying to

ShiShi21m

It's pretty great reading how misinformed you are of how the world actually works.

Heuristics lead you to Monero, as how you acquired it will always leave a trail if you're moving a sizeable amount of money - no need to even break the privacy characteristics, which have been broken on numerous occasions throughout it's history.

This is literally my whole point, & you happily avoided the lack of ability to actually mine Monero directly for your own blind bias.

& you're wrong, there are hardforks that are going to take place no matter what - even if the frequency is reduced.

Like I said, I'm happy people are using Monero to avoid taxes, they'll learn soon enough & I won't feel bad for them.

If you want to avoid taxes, move, vote with your feet.

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

Ceteris paribus Monero will always be more private than Bitcoin. Bitcoin is a public blockchain. Cope.

Replying to

Parman - Activate OP_GFY now!!

If you're going to spend on something that will land you in jail (or are super paranoid about total privacy, achievable or not) doesn't mean you have a need to accumulate monero and choose it as your unit of account.

Even if a minory of criminals use it as a hot potato to avoid jail, the value declines long term because nobody needs to HOLD and accumulate it. The dominant store of value free market emerging money will eat everything else despite any perceived advantage in one feature of some alternative.

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

A good Store of Value doesn't necessarily make something a good Medium of Exchange. Also, no one on the planet keeps 100% of everything they own in a Store of Value. I'm sure you hold fiat, electronics, cash, vehicles, etc that you didn't trade for Bitcoin.

Your last paragraph is reminiscent of early criticisms of Bitcoin in it's Darknet Market infancy.

Replying to

ShiShi21m

There are low fees because there is a low usage rate.

There is no store of value because it is infinite & it's properties readily changed to fit a communist agenda (ASIC fork).

You can not audit the supply,

You can not audit the UTXO set,

You can only trust that it's working as intended without any inflation bugs.

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

There are low fees because of dynamic block size. In fact, the more users the cheaper tx fees become.

Then don't use it as a store of value.

No Bitcoiner is taking advantage of it's transparent/simple math to scrutinize the blockchain anyway so that doesn't help you audit. Are you making sure every block that all inputs = all outputs? No, you just run your node and pay no mind.

So in practice what is the difference?

Replying to

smoak

Number of people tracked IRL from their online #bitcoin transactions and then charged, undergone asset seizure and in some cases imprisoned: 100's

Number of people tracked IRL from their online #monero transactions and then charged, undergone asset seizure and in some cases imprisoned: 0.

Even hardcore OGs like nostr:npub1qny3tkh0acurzla8x3zy4nhrjz5zd8l9sy9jys09umwng00manysew95gx would agree that if you really need privacy in your financial transactions and your liberty in on table, XMR might be a better option for Bitcoiners.

Maybe the future will give us better options for bitcoin privacy but in 2023 it's lacking considerably.

Sometimes "EASY" isn't the key to freedom.

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

Replying to

ShiShi21m

Friendly reminder that Monero uses Tor the same way Bitcoin users do, as IP addressing is doxxed otherwise.

Buying Bitcoin not tied to your identity is WAY EASIER than buying Monero.

Spending Bitcoin is WAY EASIER than spending Monero.

You don't need to blind amounts or addresses if no one knows it's you...

This is literally the premise of Coinjoin protocols for people with KYC or unmanaged UTXOs.

---

As for atomic swaps between BTC & Monero...

They are promoting the swapping of doxxic change from BTC to XMR & then back again.

This is kind of unnecessary & will surely just cost you fees.

Why not just spend the doxxic change?

Either way, if it pacifies the Monero bros I don't see why people are up in arms?

I relish people using Monero over Bitcoin, more Sats for me.

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

If you are going to criticize Monero at least try and learn some basic facts about it.

Bitcoin doesn't protect your IP transaction origin automatically thru Dandelion++ like Monero does. So no, IP is not doxxed otherwise. A complete lie.

Spending Monero is *WAY EASIER* than spending Bitcoin. All privacy is by default. You just hit send. No need to tediously slug thru coinjoins and whirlpool which uses obfuscation; a weaker form of privacy vs encryption.

You can be deobfuscated using future data as happens often enough.

Coinjoining costs more tx fees and time for weaker privacy.

Bitcoiners tout transparency, and criticize Monero's opaqueness, but then think they are better than a privacy coin that specializes in it. It's laughable.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Replying to

George Saoulidis

I don't care what coins you use

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

Then why argue?

Replying to

Ingwie Phoenix (aka. birb)

Awesome site; just typing in "germany" didn't give me results unfortunately lol. But still neat.

nostr:note1xp68nx6l30mhk3mclqyk9a4wa5xpj6dd4rnqny42emyg2svgr5es75ltaw

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

If I'm not mistaken these all would have payment methods for germany:

-Bisq

-Agoradesk

-Robosats

-Peach

-Noones

bisq.network

agoradesk.com

robosats.com

peachbitcoin.com

noones.com

Replying to BTCFalk

Yes I'll probably recommend peach

Bisq&robosats aren't good for newcomers (unless they changed a lot since the last time I looked at them)

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

Ah sry, missed the newcomers part.

Agoradesk and maybe Hodlhodl would be good too. Check out https://kycnot.me/search?q=&type=exchange&btc=on&fiat=on

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

M...O...N...E...R...O 👁 👄 👁

Replying to

j

tx size still much bigger than bitcoin and there is no monero l2. Youre right that someone might figure out lightning for monero but then you have the same problems as lightning fpr bitcoin.

As it is bitcoin scales much better than monero

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

L2 =/= Lightning

Could be zk rollups, anything. Like I said, it may not even be needed if adoption rate is low. I highly doubt the whole world is ever going to use Bitcoin much less Monero anytime soon, if ever.

Bitcoin only scales better than Monero if you are transacting completely unprivately. Start throwing in coinjoins and it start creeping towards Monero tx size and in whirlpools case surpasses it. Obfuscation is also weak privacy, nothing is hidden, the connection graph and range of amounts are all visible. Available to potentially deobfuscate with future data.

The tx cost of always doing this is also not scalable/sustainable.

https://sethforprivacy.com/posts/comparing-private-spends/#results

Replying to BTCFalk

Any suggestions on the best wais/platform to get no KYC bitcoin over in EU?

For complet newcommers

#asknostr

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

[Fiat <-> BTC]

-Bisq

-AgoraDesk

-Robosats

-Peach