Hey nostr:nprofile1qqsf03c2gsmx5ef4c9zmxvlew04gdh7u94afnknp33qvv3c94kvwxgspr9mhxue69uhkscnj9e3k7unpvdkx2tnnda3kjctv9uq32amnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwv3sk6atn9e5k7tcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0g4rts7 I'll zap you 200k when you update the docs of welshman!
I see you did some work on this recently, if you say it's totally up-to-date I will zap you
Hey nostr:nprofile1qqsf03c2gsmx5ef4c9zmxvlew04gdh7u94afnknp33qvv3c94kvwxgspr9mhxue69uhkscnj9e3k7unpvdkx2tnnda3kjctv9uq32amnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwv3sk6atn9e5k7tcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0g4rts7 I'll zap you 200k when you update the docs of welshman!
Marketplaces thrive on liquidity and trust. The two seem to go against each other on the surface.
The more liquidity the more people, the more bad actors, the harder to maintain trust in general.
The safer you want it to be, the more trust you need between parties, the less people you can allow, which comes with reduced liquidity, unless everyone is trusting one entity which comes with its own downfall when those become parasitic middle-men.
Nostr is the solution to this problem. The more apps you are using, the more connections you can examine, the easier it is to introduce parties.
A high level of Liquidity can be achieved while trust is not eroded in the market.
nostr:nprofile1qy88wumn8ghj7mn0wvhxcmmv9uq32amnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwv3sk6atn9e5k7tcpr9mhxue69uhkscnj9e3k7unpvdkx2tnnda3kjctv9uqzp978pfzrv6n9xhq5tvenl9e74pklmskh4xw6vxxyp3j8qkke3cez0c7vk7 one question: I finally was struck with a spam porn reply. My only relay at the moment is nostr.land (and Coracle does show that), which should be spam-free, but the spam post is reported to be on 1 relay (Damus). Is this related to the relay mechanism you described the other day?
Spam protection on relays needs go hand in hand with some kind of protection on the client-side BY DEFAULT, with carefully crafted UX to empower users, not patronize them.
More decentralized = more open = smarter filtering necessary.
#wot #vertex
This kind of hustling for perms in an endless loop should not be happening:
https://v.nostr.build/uHCDllCLgHCTaWdw.mp4
#primal
Congrats to all the winners! Thanks to you, Nostr has become the place for health care!
nostr:nprofile1qy2hwumn8ghj7erfw36x7tnsw43z7un9d3shjqpqqjgcmlpkeyl8mdkvp4s0xls4ytcux6my606tgfx9xttut907h0zs22zhu4 RunStr -> 8 million sats
nostr:nprofile1qy2hwumn8ghj7erfw36x7tnsw43z7un9d3shjqpqq6mcr8tlr3l4gus3sfnw6772s7zae6hqncmw5wj27ejud5wcxf7qmrmpr0 Safebox -> 4 million sats
nostr:nprofile1qy2hwumn8ghj7erfw36x7tnsw43z7un9d3shjqpq2xyl6w6aacmqa3gmmzwrr9m3u0ldx3dwqhczuascswvew9am9q4sacc6ka nostr:nprofile1qy2hwumn8ghj7erfw36x7tnsw43z7un9d3shjqpqwxazmmaj28dsvc80fsvxfyy9dvtwrfltss977hgqlp3txjk8v60s2atkyy Wellness Ally -> 2 million sats
nostr:nprofile1qy2hwumn8ghj7erfw36x7tnsw43z7un9d3shjqpqzvu0wuq4rf5839sangchz8h7rq6ejp22zhvn8sncwc3eaq987qdsw2n42x nostr:nprofile1qy2hwumn8ghj7erfw36x7tnsw43z7un9d3shjqpqm3xdppkd0njmrqe2ma8a6ys39zvgp5k8u22mev8xsnqp4nh80srqrsqt7j MedSchlr -> 2 million sats
Let's keep pushing!
Lehetne az is hogy nostr:nprofile1qqstdxz2sprl0ap54w52jzcmpcyp2yawytk4td4u2m5e6yech48ld4sppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0vuz5fk bitcoin tartalommal, nostr:nprofile1qqsthm6sjw7ef2plpw2efhan99xt8z67ky53qkltk73etr2dwy3gtyspyfmhxue69uhk6atvw35hqmr90pjhytngw4eh5mmwv4nhjtnhdaexcep0qy88wumn8ghj7mn0wvhxcmmv9uq3qamnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3wd4hk6tc4jjpnk pedig noszterrel járul hozzá
Bitcoin:
Nostr:
Lehetne az is hogy nostr:nprofile1qqstdxz2sprl0ap54w52jzcmpcyp2yawytk4td4u2m5e6yech48ld4sppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0vuz5fk bitcoin tartalommal, nostr:nprofile1qqsthm6sjw7ef2plpw2efhan99xt8z67ky53qkltk73etr2dwy3gtyspyfmhxue69uhk6atvw35hqmr90pjhytngw4eh5mmwv4nhjtnhdaexcep0qy88wumn8ghj7mn0wvhxcmmv9uq3qamnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3wd4hk6tc4jjpnk pedig noszterrel járul hozzá
nostr:nprofile1qqsdqnk0xw3s8fvc2t7mdq0d3dqjyqd6shvdyxv6a3eukcngr4324yqpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgtcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qythwumn8ghj7cnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmp0c6dswr csoporttagunk ismerettágító honlapját ajánljuk a kezdőktől a tapasztaltabb nyúlüreg felfedezőknek egyaránt. Irány a felfedezések csodálatos világa!
#huszonegy #bitcoin #tanulás
És mivel egy-két tartalomnak jót tenne egy kis frissítés (meg akár újat is lehetne belerakni), írjon aki dolgozna ezen egy két hónapot, satban fizetek.
Outbox getting out hand.
Communities will constitute a good middle ground, or even substitute in many cases.
It could have been the relays, if they all hate you 🤙😄
The problem is that the user doesn't know the trust tradeoffs of the app.
If it's about money you can easily degrade trust if user assumes things that turn out to be different.
Look at test.satshoot.com for an example flow. It could improve a lot but it's sth.
You could create a new account, go to wallet and deposit a minimal amount. Then withdraw.
Or you can test payments too. Follow that new npub with your account inside satshoot to appear in your freelance WoT and create a test Job, place bid, accept, close and pay with ecash.
It is being reworked somewhat but gets you an idea
No default.
I would show what the user's web of trust uses, otherwise just random announcements from mints.
Would you choose a bank for a stranger?
One that users choose for themselves
Yeah, now I saw it, #Amethyst should include DMs from people I don't yet follow but are in some kind of #WoT .
My only inbox relay is filter.nostr.wine .
Still getting the spam replies with the garbled rephrasing of a note.
So either #Amethyst must be aggressively picking up every single reply regardless of #WoT or relay settings, OR the relay cannot really filter spam. Or, I am just doing sth wrong, of course.
#asknostr
I'm all in on Freelance!
https://satshoot.com is going to become the tool to bootstrap a freedom economy on nostr built on LN and Cashu.
The juicy stuff on nostr is just getting started.
I think the problem to bootstrap a valuable marketplace built on bitcoin has been the lack of focus on freelancing. People wanting to earn in bitcoin will drive their clients towards nostr, the only way to effectively build your business without middle men to take a forced cut (LinkedIn, Upwork, Fiverr etc) and controlling who you can connect to.
That's why the next version will feature Job boards as well as Services posted by freelancers. Clients post Jobs and order freelance Services, while freelancers post Services and bid on Jobs. Both will be available.
Nostr as a global Reputation network of pubkeys gets you the best opportunities to find work or get the best freelancers. Simple as that.
I feel you. When I was dealing with LN zaps had/am having similar issues.
One of the nice thing about nutzaps is that I the developer control what I put in that damn zap receipt. Liberating.
Sadly there's no nostr-native way to promote these.
Looking at ppl's list kinds is the only discovery mechanism I know of
Lol, and here's the link until all apps render freelance kinds :)
Protocol in name only
"The signer is safe and effective"
Yes bitcoiners can help, but I wonder how many real bitcoiners there are on nostr, who have the skills and the time to onboard others. Very few I believe.
And even if that's true, it is a daunting challenge to make outbox really work, and the inevitable rough edges make user retention hard.
It is telling that apps with plenty at stake, e.g. Primal and Satlantis don't even connect to relays directly. Damus has not used outbox for a long time I don't know about nowadays.
Guess why?
When you want to publish a product that works, it is quite important for stuff to load.
If you hardcode relays or use some caching server shenanigan with your own api things will definitely load using the same app on both devices.
This is not the end goal but you can onboard ppl, things are still signed etc.
I disagree with specifically the proprietary api method but it showcases the problem:
We are told "outbox is an art so we don't make a spec out of it". Okay, but this is sort of a cup-out.
Outbox is a brand new paradigm to build apps. No one has proven to my knowledge that it works in production with more than a handful of users. How many web apps use 100s or thousands of server lists to calculate the right subset **for different contexts the user can navigate to in the app?** and you have to score relays that misbehave and handle disconnections, auth, timeouts, and resource management to not exhaust battery and data of the user rapidly. To name a few.
What if we take this to the labs and create sth we can use in the meantime that also showcases the fantastic properties if nostr?
Rather than chanting "outbox" on no-true-scotsmen ?
Communities are a better solution to these issues bc most of them will start out on one relay. If we make these compatible with each other, what we get is a Fediverse that is 100X better already, with opportunities for further development.
I love bitcoiners but outbox was born out of the bitcoiner mindset that diverted our attention prematurely I think.
The problem with outbox is that the user has the mental burden now that not only should he understand the importance and implications of cryptographic keys but also do some research on relays in a similar fashion.
We could say this is the end-goal to normalize concepts like keys and relays but there has to be a learning path leading to that goal, coupled with the right incentives and UX.
This path is lacking from each and every nostr client out there right now. IMO it has to be communities bridging the gap, because you have an already bootstrapped natural trust that you take to the digital realm with you.
We cannot assume this trust will be built effectively by automatically following ppl, or attaching a default social graph to the user. This is the mistake of big tech. They want you to be comfortable, without friction so they control your experience on all levels.
If we want a realistic path forward we need to onboard real communities to nostr and create software that effectively builds up this learning path towards increasing user-control.
This is a tremendous task compared to go full haywire with outbox right away, or the other end of the spectrum, hardcoded relays forever.
It takes time but I'm hopeful we'll get there, we just need more focus on real communities.
Don't even understand why we would go as far as critical software.
I haven't ever seen any vibe-coded software in production that is more than a hobby project.
The error vibe coders make is thinking that you don't really need human understanding to write code that works in reality. I would stop wasting my time with sweating over learning new programming stuff if that was even just directionally true.
But it's not. Perhaps some day we will get there, with a different technology. But LLMs will never replace the need for human understanding. They are really useful to bounce off and refine ideas, and learn/look things up much faster than googling stuff. That is still far off though, and ppl don't appreciate how amazing human beings are, if they don't realize the huge gap.
No one needs talk big about vibe coding. Just demonstrate your work. Publish your app and we'll see.
Not to me ofc but any potential mediator.
Deniability is an obstacle for the good guy and an escape hatch for the bad guy in marketplace disputes.
I need DMs in SatShoot. I also need them to show up on other clients, to have more reach when important things happen, like a Bid lands on a Job.
#Amethyst is planning to drop support for nip04 which is understandable...
But here's the problem: I actually don't want SatShoot DMs to be deniable in case of a dispute between the parties, like we have in nip17.
And since the parties are already related due to the SatShoot deal they have between each other, privacy is not of utmost concern in this case anymore. Encryption is enough is it not?
Mostro uses a special scheme to hide metadata with gift wraps but on level 2 the message is authenticated, not like with rumors in nip17 (and there's a twist for moderation purposes but let's not go there).
While I Iike that solution, it is not interoperable with other popular apps.
I also thought of supporting both nip17 and nip04 at the same time to be more compatible but seems stupid and wasteful.
Wonder what's the best decision here?
nostr:nprofile1qqsyvrp9u6p0mfur9dfdru3d853tx9mdjuhkphxuxgfwmryja7zsvhqpzamhxue69uhhv6t5daezumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6tcpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7qgwwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkctcscpyug nostr:nprofile1qqsf03c2gsmx5ef4c9zmxvlew04gdh7u94afnknp33qvv3c94kvwxgspz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhszrnhwden5te0dehhxtnvdakz7qgewaehxw309a5xyu3wvdhhyctrd3jjuum0vd5kzmp0er5gcs perhaps you can chime in?
#asknostr
Reminder:
In a truly free market the only real scarcity is Reputation.
https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/pull/1605
Gist of it:
List and set kinds will serve this purpose the most
Much discussion went into this topic, and the conclusion has been so far that the interoperability of nostr apps would be seriously threatened by such a move.
We have nip46 bunkers and now with #Frostr I really think the subkey hell can and will be avoided.
lol, brand new, still in beta. It’s basically a P2P protocol for “home servers” (just think relays) and then personal “domains” (think keys). Similar in concept to Nostr, except the record of users is placed in the DHT, so it’s insanely censorship resistant and if you ever want anyone to find you or your content, nobody can take down your DNS record because it’s stored through the BitTorrent network.
So there are solid censorship resistant benefits to pubky, but the server model is more traditional, where you don’t really have control, you are just using their server space. You don’t sign every message like you do in #Nostr. Great for UX because you don’t have to keep keys online, but a trade off on trust because each “relay” has the ability to arbitrarily change your messages (like Twitter or any other server).
So my take on Pubky v Nostr nostr:nprofile1qqsw4v882mfjhq9u63j08kzyhqzqxqc8tgf740p4nxnk9jdv02u37ncxzszx8:
the trust relationship is worse in Pubky in some regards because all activity isn’t signed by the user, decentralization makes the likelihood of abuse slightly higher, but the UX of just having to “sign in” and it works as expected and you can use as many clients and servers as you like, plus run your own at home is a solid benefit, and the censorship resistance of the DHT is probably best you can get.
Honestly I think they can be used in tandem where each is optimized for a particular piece of the puzzle. Delays and DHT domains could be used with Nostr. It’s a matter of the right tool for the right job. Curious how each will be used in the long run. Watching both closely
This is a great answer!
Also, I learned that the two protocols could be made compatible but sadly they use different cryptographic curves (pubky: ed25519 vs nostr: secp256k1) which makes this kinda problematic.
Is this hyperdrive related?
If so ask Pablof7z about it, he had experience with it but said he eventually dropped it mentioning overcomplication / overengineering reasons.
The feed problem as nostr:nprofile1qqs04xzt6ldm9qhs0ctw0t58kf4z57umjzmjg6jywu0seadwtqqc75spz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsz9mhwden5te0wfjkccte9ec8y6tdv9kzumn9wshszxnhwden5te0wpuhyctdd9jzuenfv96x5ctx9e3k7mf0dv4ph5 mentioned on several occasions got me thinking lately.
Can't stop wondering communities can fix that too.
It is more relevant and not global by default, therefore it's easier to implement:
- Smarter, simpler algos and search
- Non-spammy digests as notifications
- Well-defined borders and therefore easier connection with the rest of nostr (whatever that means)
- Easier moderation
- ... any problem is more soluble that I can think of
The only use-case I can think of that benefits from a feed is marketplaces. The user is inherently more goal-oriented and data is inherently less noisy, only contains the bare necessities. So it's still simple to handle, regardless of abundant data.
So more liquidity on marketplaces actually makes user choice easier, while more social type of posts from a wide variety users is inherently disruptive to people seeking signal.
Social use cases: less is better, from selected people
Marketplaces: more is better, feed is justified, don't really care about people just their reputation in the marketplace context
Thoughts?
Some people seem to think that if we make nostr the go-to social media, then somehow the "inherent properties of nostr" will always keep bad things in check.
We can all just lay back on the beach and sip cocktails in decentralized la-la land.
Sorry folks, that is not how it works.
And you know what happens in B-movies with characters like that.
Entropy is the default.
Stay sharp and keep building.
Reading through Jack's thread makes me realize I need some kind of #wot -based reply ordering.
Nostr.wine for DM inbox and search,
Nostr.tools for my nip29 community
This simplified diagram will help me refactor Nostr Wallet in SatShoot:
Thought I would publish if anyone interested to implement nip60-61
#cashu #ecash #nostr-wallet #nip60
I could not fix the issue in the time frame I could dedicate to this.
Now I'm paying others to figure out the details.