Say hello to Nstart, Nostr's onbarding tool!

Nstart aims to guide new users to Nostr offering a easy and no-nonsense onboarding wizard, with useful hints about the protocol and some really exclusive features:

- Easy local backup of your nsec or ncryptsec

- Email yourself your ncryptsec, as additional backup location

- Create a multi-signer bunker URL for Nostr Connect (more info below)

- Auto follow the contacts list of some old and trusted Nostr users

- Customize of contact suggestions, useful for onboarding friends & family

Try Nstart live at https://start.njump.me or watch the video below to understand how it works.

A note about the multi-signer bunker. This is really cool stuff made by nostr:npub180cvv07tjdrrgpa0j7j7tmnyl2yr6yr7l8j4s3evf6u64th6gkwsyjh6w6, that uses FROST to split your nsec in 3 (or more) and distribute each shard to an independent trusted remote signer. This will give you a bunker code that you can use to log in to many web, mobile and desktop apps without exposing your nsec. If you ever lose your bunker code, if the signers vanish from Earth, and it stops working, or if it gets stolen by a malware virus, you can use your nsec to create a new one and invalidate the old one.

More info and source code: https://github.com/dtonon/nstart

Enjoy it and send back any feedback!

https://chronicle.dtonon.com/77b9a397cbbcd63f3bfc78ff2b2c0607e4ffa698a1fad33ab4736593c8ad4f90.mp4

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Discussion

So helpful and useful. Thanks for you dedication and hard working 🫑

Thank you!

The step breaking the key into three remote signers with FROST is really slow for me, is that because a computer is working very hard somewhere on the internet, or do you think that's a local issue with my vanadium browser?

Still, thank you for this amazing open source nostr gift and my new years wish is that no more victims have to raw dog their nsec into clients ever again.

Creation of the bunker requires some proof of work (cpu calculations) to avoid spamming the signers, so it can actually be slow on some devices. Fortunately, it is a process that needs to be done only occasionally.

Wow .. absolutely amazing .. at least first two screens cuz I didn't create a new account yet .. will test it later ... So far .. spot on and to the point ..

While more clients and more features are good to have .. making these process bottle necks is super super important..

I absolutely agree, in fact this is not the end of the story, there is more interesting news for the coming weeks :)

Bel lavoro, complimenti!

Grazie! :)

nostr:nprofile1qqs8hhhhhc3dmrje73squpz255ape7t448w86f7ltqemca7m0p99spgpz3mhxue69uhhwmm59ej8gmmwdahzucm0d5qs6amnwvaz7tmwdaejumr0dsq37amnwvaz7tmrdphhyatn9ekkj6m9v35kcem9wghxxmmd8g6rgdqfmj4gw does it work for an account that is active ?

Not yet. In the near future I will offer the ability to invalidate a bunker and create new ones, this will unlock access for everyone.

I'm looking forward to see that and use it 🫑

This a great onboarding tool, thanks for building! Bookmarked for future reference πŸ€™

nice! super cooool

nostr:note1qqqrulwlqd8rh7866pkyeg0gkt6rjlfgufy4eckqpp5p25yy6s3sc4y0lm

That's freaking awesome!

Small typo: "create you keypair" should be "your keypair"

Love it! 🧑

After clicking continue after the "save nsec" step. I only provided a name, left everything else blank.

Ehm sorry, I was deploying the fix to the typo you just spotted!

Please try again now :)

Thanks for the support!

Damn, now I feel guilty πŸ˜‚

Actually this incident allowed me to find out that the deployment procedure was not optimal, on restart the server would timeout for 90 seconds and not respond. This has now been resolved. So thank you! πŸ«‚

Just tested this. This is very nice!

It also doesn't throw you a load of bitcointwitter recommended users like some other clients do. Very minimal. Which imo is a good idea.

I would probably throw in ditto.pub as a recommended client to use at the end.

I would definitely give this to someone to onboard them!

Nice:)

Thanks for the feedback!

I will certainly add Ditto as soon it supports NIP-46 with the multi-signature update.

Very cool! My wife needs to sign up, going to use this.

Thanks! Let me know her feedback :)

This is awesome

Incredibly simple setup process with great backups. Tested from mobile

New onboarding method to Nostr apps for sure

nostr:nevent1qqsqqqp70h0sxn3mlradqmzv585t9ape055wyj2uutqqs6q42zzdggcpzdmhxue69uhhwmm59e6hg7r09ehkuef0qgs8hhhhhc3dmrje73squpz255ape7t448w86f7ltqemca7m0p99spgrqsqqqqqp2wwncg

amezing

Yowza

nostr:nprofile1qqswaptqf78vde8zf78272nzf5zza02rrkhyfrlpzau6mnakhdu9whspzemhxue69uhk2er9dchxummnw3ezumrpdejz7qg4waehxw309ahx7um5wghx77r5wghxgetk9uqsuamnwvaz7tmwdaejumr0dshsm09w87 just today was looking for something like this

Fantastic idea. Looks like you guys could use a proofreader though. Hit me up if you’d like some help

Thanks! Any help is absolutely appreciated, do you know how to open a PR on github?

lol no I find GitHub intimidating and know nothing about it. I’m willing to learn, though.

This is fantastic. My feedback would be to make the bunker step optional/advanced. I could easily see a normie being utterly confused and/or intimidated by it and bailing.

Thanks!

I know, it can be a bit intimidating, but I believe that bunkers (perhaps in more compact forms) will be the future way to access every Nostr app, so I want to expose them as soon as possible, to see how users react and thus improve the UX.

My feedback. I think the main issue is with double dipping on two separate narratives. With nsec bunker, you don’t get the benefits of the keys. It’s a reversion back to username and password. But you do get other benefits with that. So just pick one or the other. Presenting both just shows the annoyances / cons of both.

nostr:nevent1qqsrw4tgcsjg46q0j77v7vgq30qme9cnuj7t43agqcusza6ej2krs2spzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejsz9rhwden5te0wfjkccte9ehx7um5wghxyecpp4mhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mqpzfmhxue69uhk7enxvd5xz6tw9ec82cs23m699

With this solution you actually get both benefits: you own the keys but you can use a safer and revocable login token that is "semi-custodial" (all signer need to collude to steal the nsec). Of course the user need to understand a new paradigm: keep the may nsec safe and just use the derivated token(s) to login or sign.

awesome

what's the best way to translate this to other languages?

I am preparing the multilingual version for the next release, then I will share all the information so those who want can help me with the translations.

Great ⚑⚑⚑⚑

THIS is awesome πŸ‘

nostr:note1qqqrulwlqd8rh7866pkyeg0gkt6rjlfgufy4eckqpp5p25yy6s3sc4y0lm

βš‘βš‘βš‘βš‘βš‘πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰

Thx for open-sourcing. I'd like to offer help to localize this app in more languages. I can do dutch, spanish and perhap catalan myself :-)

I see the app is in svelte and never did anything in it but will try and play with it this week

This would be amazing!

The translation process will only require updating a simple formatted file, so no experience with Svelte is required.

πŸ‘

This would help us explaining / onboarding (dev) people very well at the FOSDEM conference!

πŸ‘€

πŸ†’

Well that's one way to guarantee a 100% Nostr abandon rate. 🀦

What

You just made onboarding 2 minutes and confusing AF.

Onboarding should be 1 second. Easy enough for a 4yr old to understand without any explainer. Learn via use. Not via reading.

It's not just an onboarding, it's also a learning process. Not everything can be *safely* acquired by direct experience, otherwise books would not exist. Maybe in 5 years when Nostr will be mainstream and many details will be known to the general public, we could offert a one click onboarding.

Feel free to point out the confusing parts, currently you are the only one that is experiencing this.

I'm working on a solution. Slowly.

Wow, it`s very usefool!

I see what you did there

This is very nice! I wonder if it could expand into relay selection...

nostr:nevent1qqsqqqpcnqpudg4ryfcrzccapj67c9ftdp6yp6summ9eml6sv7wx3vqpypmhxue69uhkx6r0wf6hxtndd94k2erfd3nk2u3wvdhk6w35xs6z7qgwwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkctcpypmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuetfde6kuer6wasku7nfvuh8xurpvdjj73s4xfh

How do you pick write relays? Either try to write from a new pubkey, or sign up to one.

How do you pick read relays? Make sure everybody can write to them (when tagging you).

How do you pick discovery relays? Make sure any pubkey can drop a 10002 relay list onto them. If you can't, probably nobody else can either.

How od you pick DM relays? ....

The system would need to test relays and only offer the ones that are suitable.

Most relays say things like "user unauthorized" or "you must auth"

Really nice work!

With quick start follower lists, please show the Goats from a wide range of # categories, not just bitcoin OGs. Otherwise the onboarding process is just an efficient way to put off most normies. As anyone who has tried orange pilling knows, most people don't respond well to having bitcoin in their face. Get them in with great UX and privacy and all the rest of Nostr goodness,, then we can quietly educate them on the most important hashtag here. Cheers

I have the same fear, and in fact the current selection was created by choosing very different types of people. Also, this is a temporary solution, the ultimate goal is to offer a kind of β€œstarter pack” with specific topics, unfortunately we don't have accounts that post only specific content yet, so we have to wait a while for that.

Although Nostr is now used mostly as a Social Media type of tool I can see a future where is is used to actually verify your identity online for activities like accessing personal records and interacting with services.

In a future like that we will need to take good care of our private keys.

Was thinking of that as you mentioned sending keys via email…

Nstart only sends the *encrypted* version of the private key via email.

The idea is actually just that: save your nsec in a safe place and use the revocable multi-signature bunker for everything else.

I really want to like remote signing, but so far the experience has been pretty bad. It's a bit better when using my own relay, which isn't an option here for understandable reasons, but it is still unreliable. Not sure what is going on in the background, but it seems like signing requests are sometimes just never received by the bunker.

I think local signers are still the best experience. NIP-55 and NIP-07 signing just works without any issue for me, while NIP-46 signing is iffy. I have no idea how to make this experience better for NIP-46 signing, just reporting what I have experienced.

Tried out using this onboarding flow to create a test account and log into Coracle with the remote signer option. It logged me into the new profile fine, but reactions never went through, and it's just sitting there waiting for the bunker to respond when trying to create a new post.

Aaaaand new user gone...

I agree, NIP-46 needs to be more solid. Talking about that I probably just found a bug that break the signer when only one realy is unreachable. This probably caused the bug with Coracle you are talking about.

NIP-07 offers a good experience, but unfortunately no one use extensions. NIP-55 is a really good solution, but it's not so immediate and works only for mobile apps.

If NIP-46 can be made more reliable, I am ALL FOR this onboarding flow. In fact. I would present the remote signing bunker string as, "This is how you log into Nostr apps. No email or password needed. Just keep this in a password manager and paste it into any compatible client. They will have it listed as signing in using a "bunker." Here's a list of clients:..." Then just give the nsec as a way to recover the bunker if it is compromised. Done.

This quorum of FROST signers is very interesting indeed! No single point of failure. However, it is still a relatively small group needed to collude, and I assume you need their cooperation to retire a bunker string, right? So if they DID collude, it would be no different from your nsec being compromised.

> I would present the remote signing bunker string as, ...

This is the plan!

> So if they DID collude, ...

In the future we will have a wider range of signers, and users will be able to choose their signer in an advanced wizard tab, so that risk is really minimized. A signer is a really simple and lightweight process, it can be hosted on a phone too, so maybe you can choose friend's or familiy's signers, too.

It's like Fedimint, but for your Nostr signing... Sure, it's not self-custody, but it's still a massive improvement over the status quo of a single entity owning your identity. All for it! Especially since those of us who want 100% control of our keys can still do so.

There is no local signer for iOS. I want this really badly too. Remote signing is so buggy and often just doesn’t work.

If I remember right, there is someone in the process of trying to build one. I can't recall who, though.

Couldn’t a local signer be added to an app like Damus? Then it just becomes your main Nostr app?

I always wanted nostr:npub1tnpfz60snm7ler8k8c69335n37we6690qttl88t556yzkjxhahjq3kkkpe to become a local signer but that never came to fruition πŸ˜”

Probably, but I have no idea what the limitations are in iOS that have kept something like that from being built already. Not a dev here, just a power-user and one that only uses Android for mobile these days.

There are a lot of ideas about what the ideal onboarding experience should look like. I think they will all be tried and we will narrow down on which is best based on how well received they each are by non-technical users.

I've thought it would be a great idea to have a signer built into a password manager, like Bitwarden. However, there are a LOT of people who still don't use password managers for some reason. (What is wrong with you people?)

Others like the idea of building it into a native client on each device, such as Damus on iOS and Amethyst on Primal, etc. Perhaps all native Nostr clients could have it built in, and users would just choose which one they want to use for it. I think this would create artificial lock-in for whatever client they chose. Yes, they COULD just set up a different client as their signer, if they wanted to switch, but most would just see this as an enormous hassle, especially if they have remote signing set up with multiple other clients that they would need to set up all over again.

Another idea I have seen that would possibly work on Android, but could never work on iOS, is to have the signer built into a Nostr app store, so that the user would use the app store for their original onboarding and for finding apps to use with their signing credentials. Over here on Android, that would maybe mean nostr:nprofile1qyv8wumn8ghj7enfd36x2u3wdehhxarj9emkjmn99uqzqun2rcnpe3j8ge6ws2z789gm8wcnn056wu734n6fmjrgmwrp58q390rp63 adding it to nostr:nprofile1qy2hwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnyv9kh2uewd9hj7qghwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxummnw3ezucnpdejz7qghwaehxw309aex2mrp0yh8qunfd4skctnwv46z7qpq0r8xl2njyepcw2zwv3a6dyufj4e4ajx86hz6v4ehu4gnpupxxp7sdvr7w9 . I think he has more ambitious goals than just having Nostr apps in his appstore, though, as can be readily seen by perusing what is already available there.

Personally, I think having it as a separate app, like Amber, is just fine. I would love to see that signer app actually become the app used to onboard new Nostriches, and then suggest to them clients they can use with the signer, and how to get Zapstore in order to find more. However, for that to happen, the signer app needs to be readily available in the system's main app-store, otherwise you are expecting newbies to download it directly from GitHub or first get Obtainium or Zapstore (ALSO not available in the Google Play Store) to download it.

Flow should be: Go to app-store > install signing app > set up basic profile > back up nsec now or skip till later > select client to try and be redirected to download it > open client and main option for login is using a signer app which automatically reaches out to already installed and set up signer > be amazed because the client you just logged into has your profile information and a default feed because you haven't followed anyone yet.

I agree with your ideal. We just need amber on iOS.

The browser based app like nsec bunker just doesn’t cut it. It makes the whole system feel finicky and brittle.

To be fair, I have tried using NIP-46 signing with Amber and it is spotty at best right now. Sometimes Amber receives the signing request, but the client never receives the response. Sometimes Amber just never receives the request in the first place. But occasionally it works as intended, and it's absolutely magical! So, need to figure out how to have the latter be the consistent experience.

NIP-55 signing with Amber is always quite consistent, though. We'll need some kind of similar spec that works on iOS.

Test replying from Coracle with a fresh new FROST account.

nostr:npub1kun5628raxpm7usdkj62z2337hr77f3ryrg9cf0vjpyf4jvk9r9smv3lhe it's working for me.

Yes!

Will play with it some more today and see how it goes. Was working for me yesterday afternoon as well, certainly way more reliably than NIP-46 via Amber. Wonder if we can dial in on why this is working well while Amber can be finicky.

Could not help myself. PR incoming

Thank for the proposal, but I prefer a more compact design for a such simple form.

Note: Nostr does not have *usernames*, in the sense used by centralized platforms; this is a real important point that the text in the sidebar explains.

Sure. Your project.

Just figured some of the info on the left (optional fields, hint to store password, display name) is better displayed closer to the fields.

> is better displayed closer to the fields.

I agree, in fact I was thinking to add a small help icon near every inputs to explain contextually some details.

That was what i was trying to achieve

But then playing with it (on mobile) made me feel that field labels would help as placeholders are easy to miss once you have the form filled in.

But hey, like I said, your project so feel free to disregard the PR. There is another PR adding a missing dependency at https://github.com/dtonon/nstart/pull/3

Pushed an update that picks some element from your suggestion.

I'd say "no identity documents or phone number required" instead of No KYC

Yes, many people suggested this, I think I will replace the KYC part.

Fantastic tool! I'm going to use this one to onboard newcomers to nostr.

Some very small feedback:

- On the first page KYC is mentioned. I don't think everyone knows this term. Perhaps show a short explanation.

- Showing the label optional for the fields bio and website makes it more clear immediately whats required or only put required for the name field

- Instead of a brief presentation, which for me was unclear, perhaps use something like "a bio in max x char" or "a short bio" e.g.

Noted. Thanks for the feedback!

no mention of using a vpn, so basically everyone signing up through this shitty service is exposing themselves to whatever relays you have set up to gather this info.

fukkin honeypot

What πŸ˜‚

If you want more privacy you just use a VPN regularly, it's not Nstary's job suggest that.

Less paranoia, please.

Who owns nstart?

It's a project built by me and nostr:nprofile1qqsrhuxx8l9ex335q7he0f09aej04zpazpl0ne2cgukyawd24mayt8gprfmhxue69uhkcmmrdd3x77pwve5kzar2v9nzucm0d5hszxnhwden5te0wpuhyctdd9jzuenfv96x5ctx9e3k7mf0qydhwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnhv4ehgetjde38gcewvdhk6tc4rdlnm

Thanks for putting it together! For those that are worried about exposing their nsec, what are their options with nstart?

It offers a multi signature bunker.

Try to generate a keypair to see how it works, in the left column you will find some informations.

In a near future it will be available for already existent profiles.

When using your ncyyptsec, does that make your account end-to-end encrypted? If it does, now would we do this for previously created accounts like my own

Ncryptsec is simply a way to store your nsec (private key) encrypted. It's useful to limit ad personam and malware attacks. You can encrypt your current key using a client that support ncryptsec backup (e.g. Gossip or Amber) or using a command line tool like https://github.com/fiatjaf/nak

Thanks friend

πŸ‘‹

Thank you for working on this!

I wanted to try FROST but can't login with it, probably because I got a bunker string w/ promenade.fiatjaf.com as relay, and that relay requires auth to read, so subscription on replies gets CLOSED. Am I doing something wrong?

Ah ok, it's outdated ndk subscribing to wrong kind.

What client?

FROST bunker requires a little update: all bunker uris before had the user pubkey on them, so instead of calling get_public_key clients were just taking the pubkey from the uri; FROST bunker can't support that, it uses a different key for each user, not the actual user's key, so clients have to call the get_public_key method.

Yeah thanks, I know about that upgrade - just didn't get to that issue due to old ndk misbehavior. Now implementing it in nostr-login, thanks for the push.

Great!

Published nostr-login@1.7.0, now apps using it's latest version should all work with FROST bunker urls - nostr.band, npub.pro, nostrapp.link etc.

Fantastic, thanks!

Btw frost bunker can't do nip04/nip44 encryption/decryption, right?

Exactly, it is an inherent limitation.

Imho we put too much into that identity stuff. It makes onboarding unnecessarily difficult.

What do you mean?

What's the meaning of that characters?

Nice answer 😁 Anyway, if there should be accountable adaption, nostr needs different Auth. Nobody wants to share their secret with one or many service. I.e. a delegation signing key per service, created while onboarding, secured by passkey etc. Every other approach imho is distortion...

Bunkers have exactly this goal, they are revocable tokens used to sign events.

Thanks nostr:nprofile1qqs8hhhhhc3dmrje73squpz255ape7t448w86f7ltqemca7m0p99spgpypmhxue69uhkx6r0wf6hxtndd94k2erfd3nk2u3wvdhk6w35xs6z7qgmwaehxw309a3ksun0de5kxmr99ej8gmmwdahzucm0d5hsz8rhwden5te0vdhh2mn5wf5k2uewve5kzar2v9nzucm0d5hss3mr7u, and sorry that I was to lazy to read the complete thread. Than bunkers are great 😁

Looking good Peeps

Very cool. Random question, is there no zapping on the wikistr client?

Correct.

Cool

I've complained about nostr onboarding many times. I think this is exactly what people need to start using Nostr. Well done!

Hey nostr:nprofile1qqsq36k72r04rkj2gt6acpz7xkehrypwqmt2spfpt0kr6ukudp7vkpqpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgtcpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5hsz9thwden5te0wfjkccte9ejxzmt4wvhxjme0v2l6t9

Wondering if this could be integrated into nostr login on npub pro sites .

nostr:nevent1qqsqqqp70h0sxn3mlradqmzv585t9ape055wyj2uutqqs6q42zzdggcpz4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezummcw3ezuer9wchsygrmmmmmugka3evlgcqwq3922wsul966nhrayl04svauwldhsjjcq5psgqqqqqqsxrrj8t

Interesting! How do you see this? Show users a "JOIN" button somewhere so that this start.njump.me would open up, and when user is done ask them for the bunker url to connect to their keys?

If you want to attract people to Nostr, don't use that ugly and dated computer image. Get the readers attention

Any suggestion?

1. What is Nostr

2. Why you should join Nostr

3. Benefits of Nostr

4. How Nostr is different from others

Weren't we talking about the image?

I kinda like the computer, but a nostriche could do :aliendance:

I have to add, as a pathological account hoarder, i think this on-boarder is by far the best i've seen!

Also, You should explain what Nostr is first, not jump right into keypairs

Should you? πŸ€”

The relay talk will scare noobs

You can easily give a high-level pitch about what nostr is and why you should join it.

Marketing 101

Never dive that deep from step 1

I've always thought the best way to start is to tell people that they're creating a self-sovereign identity that works on multiple clients. Don't talk about cryptography

That way the keypair talk makes sense ... Identity = keys

You are just jumping the gun a bit, high-level to low-level

I just think you give people a nice overview and perspective if you tell them they're creating a #nostr identity that ports across the entire ecosystem

Yes, eventually that is important

Tell it like it is ... #Nostr is an open source communication protocol - a set of technical rules - that allows users to post information on social client apps. Unlike traditional social media, there are no servers where users have accounts and where this information is stored. Instead, ... Also, there are no user account databases. User identities are created through a set of keys ...

When you think of it like this, you realize that #nostr is cutting edge πŸ˜€

relays are servers and store your data though

Okay, there are no centralized servers

Below the button you have it:

Would you like to know more about Nostr first? Read a quick introduction

that points to https://njump.me

Yeah but that should be how you start, not hidden down below. You need to think high-level first, so readers know what they are getting into

In fact this is not actually the start.

The main landing page is https://njump.me , as soon Nstart will be tested enough a big "Join Nostr" will appear there.

sorry for off-topic tangent... but which client do you use to format links like that?

Links are not formatted, they are just plain URLs. Maybe is your client that formats them in a special way?

Thanks! Yes indeed, now looking at it in amethyst and it's just a plain URL. On nostrudel.ninjal it was a string of words linking to the URL. I can't remember what it spelled, but it made perfect sense in the sentence. πŸ˜…

Is auto-follow suggested users an option where you can unselect people? I'll share this but I don't think my friends would care about most of the suggested follows.

Sure, the follows suggestions are absolutely optional, the user have to actively select them.

But you can customize them to apply personalized follows, for example you can share:

https://start.njump.me?s=npub1cwhy4k8qd2guyqz8t45u4yzyp4k4fhnjn573ukh6e77mde2dgm9s2lujc5

And your friend will find your profile, pre-selected, in the final follows proposal.

You can also add more profiles, separating them with commas.

That's amazing

Who choose people to follow ?

For a community like ours (french community) is it possible to have some active local people ?

Nstart suggests some old and trusted users, but in the end it copies their following list, so we choose the initial limited selection but actually these people create the final lists.

In the future I will probably add some sort of "starter packs", that will also include coated selections by countries or languages.

To achieve what you want now, as suggested you can add one more npubs (separated by commas).

You can also trick the system: create a fictional "French community" user and use it to follow a bunch of people, then add it to the suggestions!

Humm, I don't understand everything πŸ€”

How could we create a selection of french nprofile to onboard new come?

Do you have an example?

Just as them to the URL, separated by commas

https://start.njump.me?s=npub1,npub2,npub3

The "trick" is simply a new Nostr account with a descriptive name that follows some people.

πŸ’‘

Ok. Simple and evolutive !

If I prepare something like this could I have a special link with this profile to onboard Frenchy ?

What do you mean with "special link"?. You build the URL as explained and just share it directly.

Ok this part I need to add! I don't see it 🫠

/?s=npub1,npub2,npub3

Ok now it's clear πŸ‘

Exactly :)

πŸ‘€ nostr:nprofile1qqspcx43hd9acc0jyvna2e6fg0hc0eyhpz4n30y4z47lgyqfld78m0c0kpqfn un peu comme Γ§a

I'm stuck trying to email my ncryptsec to myself, send button isn't doing anything

Weird, it seems working for others people.

I'm going to DM you to try to debug the issue.

I’ll check it out! Thank you !!!

Needs more mobile client options.

Do you mean at the end? They will be added as soon they support the multi-signature bunker.

Of course you can always use the nsec/ncryptsec with all clients.

Yes at the end.

Why are clients being forced to support multi sig? Thought this was for new users, not privacy and security OGs?

Had a buddy totally new through it and he's not a fan.

He'd like to just be able to use nostr, not go through a bunch what he calls "unnecessary steps that make no sense to him".

🀷

We ended up just installing amethyst and minibits after.

These bunkers are not for OGs, they are first of all for casual users that need a way to use Nostr without accidentally burn their nsec.

At the same time they also protects from buggy software and malware.

So in this first phase I'm specifically promoting apps that support this connection method.

If your friend doesn't need these onboarding features he did very well to download his favorite client and create his account there.

Remember him to backup his nsec.

It doesn't matter why your doing it. It's counter productive for onboarding new people to nostr.

New users backing up(saving) their nsec(password in layman's terms) is enough.

If the common social media user doesn't know how to protect and save their passwords for social accounts, thats on them.

Running in with an extra step to play hero for their nsec(password) is not the way to get new users.

Please read on Wisdom of Crowds.

Basic nsec(password) backup and entry for log in and security is the median.

Options above this should be sold separately for those who find value in it.

Options below this and you wouldn't even have a nostr account.

Thank you for sharing your point of view.

Just tried it,

Great job.

Really solid. The copy is a little lengthy. Hard to read. Might put off new comers.

will there be an option in the future for existing npubs to use this to create multisig keys πŸ”‘

just came to comments to ask this too 😊

Yes, as soon as I add the management area to invalidate bunkers, existing npubs will also be able to create their own bunker.

A great resource i wish I found when I fell down the rabbit hole

Beautiful, clean and useful.

I think there are many steps. I would remove the option to save nsec locally and would keep only the option to save it on email.

A lot of people don't have an email.

Btw, I'm evaluating a "compressed" version for people who are in hurry.

A lot of people don't have E-mail? I don't know anyone that doesn't have an email, haha.

Maybe give the user an option to save locally or save in an email.

API type thingy mapopper for apps to use so the onboarding is more uniform across all of them?? That's would be something...

Hosted over a decentralized system, on top of tor or something of course... You geniuses get in it. 🫰🫰

Check this out for onboarding nostr:npub1gef8q9pzq6jpug58lhycrwm2w6qd65wzv6lr2ew2yuzf5yyz4wjqg53eyc

Thank you πŸ™

Don’t mean to be that guy but just a heads up ….There’s a typo

Good job That Guy. It was fixed. πŸ€™

onboarding is def getting better. i tried joining a while ago and gave up. but today, here i am.

Welcome

Onboarding these days can be instant or even 1 step. Just depends on how deep you want users to understand nostr.

Instant: https://girlsoncampus.app or https://undocumented.app

1-2 step: https://robotsbuildingeducation.com

Welcome!

Welcome!

is it simple enough for my grandma? I let it create a bunker, and in final step I opened Coracle., but no guidance how to login in Coracle ? (I expected it all down automagically).

I friend of mine tried to use Start and reported the window closed after downloading nsec file.

I have not yet added automatic login to the proposed applications at the end of the flow. When they all support this feature, I will update this part.

If you pick an app that currently support signup via Nstart, like https://jumple.social, you will experience the optimized flow.

The closed window seems a browser issue, the wepapp cannot close itself.

Right on! Is there a way to use the bunker for an existing nsec?

Not yet, it will be available as soon the management area will be released.

Thanks a lot! Looking forward!

What are the frost shards that promenade uses? Are they relays or dvm-like agents?

Ah found in the promenade description, never mind

One thing missing in the promenade description is that signers connect directly to the coordinator. In theory one could use a different relay as a proxy, but connecting directly is more private and more efficient and allows coordinators to know which signers are online.

Currently events shared between coordinator and signers are not encrypted in any way.

So currently signers aren't really "multi-party", right? And the plan is that eventually independent parties will run publicly known signers and promenade will somehow choose among them?

What do you mean? They are multi-party.

Promenade is two things: a coordinator and the signers. There are currently 5 signers I think, ran by different people. The client (nstart) will select 3 of these at random to do a 2of3 scheme (I think ideally it would be a 3of4 or maybe 3of3 if we get very reliable signers). The client can in theory select any signers they want and any coordinator they want, but currently it's all hardcoded because we don't have anyone else interested (do you want to run a signer and be added to list, by the way?) and I don't know what would be the UX of giving people options.

nostr:npub10000003zmk89narqpczy4ff6rnuht2wu05na7kpnh3mak7z2tqzsv8vwqk is working on a "manager" client companion to nstart that I think will give the user ways to configure these things. In the future (always in the future) we may have a more decentralized market of coordinators and signers and friend recommendations and stuff like that.

Oh, unrelated but also if you compromise your bunker currently you can delete it from the coordinator so the coordinator will just stop answering to requests for that specific bunker URL. Or you can redo the bunker setup process with the same signers and coordinator and your previous stuff will be deleted and overwritten. For this you need your main nsec.

Well I meant "hey are you running signers yourself for now?", but it's great to know those are different people - found the list on nstart source. Happy to run it too: nostr:npub1qaekjyulztkfmc3lu08pr57jvx0cdcrg9qx5gm55kltklaz233qs4c0kuu

The UX of giving people options could probably look like "Choose 3 of these 10 signers passing wot score threshold" with some defaults set. Signer owners should put their signature somewhere (nip89 event?) to enable that.

How do I ask coordinator to delete the bunker url?

How do you have a WoT threshold if you're just creating a Nostr account?

App either has hard-coded pubkeys of trusted owners, or trusted "wot root" pubkeys, or may infer some context from the place where user is signing up. I.e. if user signs up on npub.pro site then we'll use site admin as wot root (we already reuse their relays for new profile, and suggest new user to follow them).

Even if wot roots or owners are hard-coded I guess it's better then hardcoded signer pubkeys bcs new good signers can be discovered/suggested without recompiling the app.

Let me know your signer pubkey once you have one running, make sure to pass the --accept-relay flag to the signer.

I sent it, the signer pubkey is nostr:npub1qaekjyulztkfmc3lu08pr57jvx0cdcrg9qx5gm55kltklaz233qs4c0kuu

To delete you can just send a kind:5 to the kind:16430 that represents your bunker at the coordinator. You can also fetch it if you do a REQ with AUTH (using your main nsec).

The promenade repo also has an "accountcreator" tool for doing the setup flow in a CLI.

Thanks, will check!

perfect on-boarding

#introduction