What about those who are not involved with bitcoin and have no interest in getiing involved? Does this not limit the "open source" open attitude of nostr?
What am I missing here?
Discussion
Then those people would not be able to use this feature. Bitcoin is programmable money so it allows us to paywall things this way using open protocols. How would you suggest to do it without bitcoin ?
As I asked, what am I missing here? My impression is that this is some sort of paywall that prevents those without bitcoins from full participation with others on nostr.
Yes but it’s a users right to use any mechanism they want to filter posts to them. Another client could require you to send a wire transfer to do the same thing, it would just be more difficult to program that .
Kind of like Elon Musk charging money for Blue Checks. I get it.
I suppose thinking of paywalls as a feature and not as a way to block users is rational to some, but wouldn't it just be easier to program a way to block users without requiring a payment that only some can easily use?
It almost seems like a reminder that some are more equal than others, which seems to go against the whole concept of a free, open source, de-centralized platform that is designed to prevent censorship... particularly if you have bitcoins
What are you suggesting? The point is to put some friction so that not everyone can DM you.
Could you do it so you could exempt some users of your choosing?
That would be nice, more for convenience once you’ve established trust with a person
Exactly.
I think the point is that you would be forced to have Bitcoin to get past the paywall.
Some people ARE more equal than others. Even you mustadmint that you don'tbtreat everyone the same. You have frienda, family, crushes, etc that you treat different than people who dont fall into those categories.
Like if some random came to you and started to tell you that you are tying your shoes incorrectly. You'd tell them to fuck off. Your friends and FAM? You'd laugh, or riff on them. Or even listen.
No one is forcing you or anyone to use bitcoin, or nostr. You are free to not use bitcoin, as you are free to not use the internet, internal combustion engines etc.
Everything on #nostr is voluntary.
If you don’t have bitcoin, and don’t know how to get it you could ask here.
Tag the #plebchain , #zapchain, #grownostr , #introductions hashtags and you will find very friendly and open folks who will show you how to get started.
Bitcoin is the open money protocol to nostr’s open communication protocol.
Nobody’s stopping anybody to get some bitcoin and fully participate in paid nostr features.
I don't even understand what bitcoin is- I'm just here to post stuff. Most people don't understand Bitcoin to be honest, regardless of how much you few people know about it. :)
You don’t have to know about bitcoin to use damus
I keep reading about how new users should add a lightning wallet.. my understanding is that it relates to bitcoin. Why is there so much push for lightning wallets?
You also don't need to know much about bitcoin to benefit from using it. Download a wallet, get zapped, zap others. It's pretty simple. What's the argument for not taking advantage of it?
Some people believe it’s killing the planet because the media told them so
I came here because I want to post my content, not because I want to spend my money. It's just strange when you have people telling new users to get a lightning wallet and start zapping. I don't want to be told how to spend my money, or whatever it is. I don't think the general populous wants that pressure either, or to be coerced into investing their money without first using the system and finding value in it. Give us a reason to spend and maybe later we'll put money into it.
You don't have to follow Will you know. Or listen to anything he says. But he is a Lightning dev so it's not abnormal that he talks about what he is passionate about and wants to incorporate it in his app.
It's not a matter of whether to use it or not- It's just something I noticed being pushed, and it isn't clear to me what the use is. If it is a monetary thing, it seems like there is some push for getting people to buy into this. I came here because I want to post content- not because I want to spend my money. If you want people to adopt this nostr thing, you need to make people feel like investing their content, not investing their money. I don't want to come to a place and have people telling me I should spend my money this way or that way, because that smells of a scammy ecosystem.
It's just really freaking cool to be able to send someone a fraction of a penny instantly when they produce content I like.
Participate or not, nobody cares.
That said, I don't see how anyone could think that's *not* really freaking cool.
To each his own I guess.
That's not what bothers me- what bothers me is the precident. You have people pushing this monetary system onto others before they even have a chance to develop a sense of what value there is here- if there is any. Like, I have just started using this nostr thing, and I have yet to find any value in it for me. When I see people pushing this monetary thing everywhere it starts feeling very scammy. It's like asking someone to start paying for something without knowing what they are getting. It makes no sense from the standpoint of someone new. Maybe it makes sense to you, but for people like me, it just adds a sense of disingenuousness to this whole thing.
how exactly is it being pushed
My initial impression is that the community pushes it. Maybe I'm not following the right people or something, but having had to learn about nostr, I've had to watch videos and tutorials to learn how to start using it. I guess the lightning thing is pretty strongly tied into this nostr thing, because it keeps popping up. I've had to learn about lightning wallets, and zaps, and sats, and apparently it relates to bitcoin.. all these things I've never needed to know about before. All I want to do is post my content and find content that I like, and I'm still unsure how to do that.. I'm instead being indoctrinated into some sort of bitcoin thing where transactions take center stage.. I'm seeing many posts about bitcoin on the feeds.. or relays or whatever they are. It's not a great way to be introduced to a platform that is suppose to rival or replace twitter or other social media, in my opinion.. You need better on-ramps to this, that remove all the esoteric crypto jargon, but primarily, I need to be able to get to the actual content I want to see, otherwise I just get stuck talking to you guys :)
Your sentiment is shared by a lot of people. Nostr began its initial adoption from the Bitcoin community leaving Twitter to use nostr. So naturally there’s a huge amount of Bitcoin enthusiasm here and people are focused on zaps and heavy Bitcoin integration. Nostr is much bigger than a bitcoin community but it will be some time before that’s realized. I wouldn’t focus on the monetization you’re seeing, it’s not the point it’s just a feature.
I think you need to add some paid relays and start exploring all of the facets of what nostr has to offer.
I would also like to add that when someone offers you a zap, it is them welcoming you to the community. I do not believe anyone is attempting to indoctrinate you. It’s a big deal for a bitcoiner to send sats, and it’s our way of showing you respect and opening the door to what nostr has to offer. We are excited for what this platform has to offer and there is a lot of passionate people here, but that passion does is not limited to bitcoin. There are poets, writers, musicians, philosophers, and technologists.
You don’t need to use bitcoin, like it, or even want to learn about it. Here you can say and be whatever you want. There are no limits. Give it a chance and you will be amazed at what it has to offer.
You need to look for content, explore, look at follow lists, and engage in conversations. The content will not magically just come to you. You are in charge and in control. If you create good content, people will follow you, engage with you, and challenge you. This is the beauty of this protocol. You have to build the experiences you want to have.
I joined NOSTR for the value-for-value idea. I would rather show a content creator I appreciate their content with a zap of anywhere from a couple pennies, to thousands of dollars. I don’t want to pay a third party, or have the creator pay a cut to a platform or other entity. I give them something of value (Satoshis) for their content which I have found value in, be it art, snark, prose, or story.
I want to be rewarded for my content… not the platform selling advertisements off my content. I want to share the value I find in other’s content.
But that doesn’t mean you have to. Social media is what you make it, and the avenues you choose to participate in.
I choose to step outside of the wall gardens, with the iron fences, gatekeepers, and censors.
I choose Freedom over algorithms anyway.
It is not being pushed or forced, it is just a feature that can be used on nostr which is available because of bitcoin’s programmable nature. It’s not possible to implement frictionless global payments on a communication protocol with fiat currencies (which WERE forced on you btw), but bitcoin makes it possible. The reason you see everyone talking about bitcoin is because nostr was built by bitcoiners and adopted first by them, so I get that if you don’t like all the bitcoin talk it can be annoying but nostr is expanding to more and more communities and the topics will diversify.
That's interesting to know that nostr was built by bitcoiners, and that explains the prevalence of it. It makes me hopeful that as nostr grows, it would bring in more diversity and hopefully not just attract more of the same.
Yeah #[6] was the original creator of nostr and was building on bitcoin & lightning network beforehand, same with #[7] and many other devs you see building nostr. Here’s a short article that kind of explains it https://fortune.com/crypto/2023/02/21/bitcoiners-flocking-to-nostr-social-network-jack-dorsey-edward-snowden/amp/
And as fiatjaf says in the article, the bitcoin integration is more of an add on feature than an integral part of the protocol.
I joined in December and can tell you that the conversation topics are becoming more diverse week by week as more and more people join
Thanks- just finished reading the article. That's good to know.
I'm still getting oriented with everything, so the more time I spend on here the more I'll get a sense of things.
good to hear this perspective, it’s true there are a lot of people excited about bitcoin on nostr, but it shouldn’t be an echo chamber, and won’t be in the long run.
I see what you mean. #[9] and #[10] addressed it perfectly.
I came here mainly because I like trying out new ways of communicating via social media, but I mostly talk about music lol
I think this is really important feedback for us all to digest, for the success of nostr.
It doesn’t take away from the value of what has been made, but we need growth and adoption from other groups. Understanding if/how that value is translating and how we can improve is going to be important.
Nah. Try to please everyone and you end up pleasing no one.
It would be a scam if you had to invest your own money. You don’t need to invest anything.
If you post useful content you could get sats, if you choose to. Later, you can choose to redistribute the sats you got by zapping other posts. I never invested a single dollar on Nostr.
Using sats or understanding Bitcoin is not a requirement to use Nostr. In fact, there’s probably too many Bitcoiners here! 😅 But most would be more than happy to answer any questions you may have about it.
Heck, many people even went sats to newbies, no strings attached. A reverse scam? 🤣
Thanks- At the moment, it feels like it is a requirement to understand it though based on how prevalent it is, and how much it permiates the content. It is like traveling to another country where everyone speaks another language. You have to learn their customs and so forth in order to get around, which is fine if that is your destination, but I'm not interested in that stuff. It is a learning curve, and I might think I understand something, but I'm always questioning myself whether I do or not and always feeling uncertain about everything. But anyways- I guess I just have to see where it goes, because I don't really know where I'm suppose to go next here. 😑
Bitcoin is an opt in money. It is native to the internet, decentralized and can be used as commodity money so it’s the best one to be used on a protocol like Nostr . One may also opt in for value4value, payment for content instead of advert attention for content. If you don’t get it, don’t use it, but experimentation, iteration, education and communication won’t be stopped for those inventing the new decentralized paradigm for information, entertainment content renumeration.
You are not forced to pay for anything. If anything, people can send you money if you’d like and you don’t have to buy anything. Get a wallet of Satoshi and I’ll send ya some sats to spend
Read this book https://thesimplestbitcoinbook.net
And follow #[8]
nostr:note1ej3re04pdqn3duamtfnvvhkyh396p60mhledtxersmj2czuv09xqwnpyvw
Wait, out of curiosity, how did you find out about this place if not through an affinity for #Bitcoin? That’s fascinating to me.
No one is telling you to buy anything:)
But we are strongly urging you to study Bitcoin.
Read this article and DM if you have any questions:
https://medium.com/the-bitcoin-times/bitcoin-and-the-tyranny-of-time-scarcity-1d1550dfd8b0