Shitcoin "new chains" are part of the scam marketing.
I don't think scammers want bitcoin side chains because they can't make absurd Rube Goldberg machine claims.
This is probably why Liquid didn't find much traction. Why I there won't be demand for Drive Chain. There is pretty much nothing shitcoiners are doing that can't be done on Liquid.
Go play on liquid first, show demand. 
⚡️
Complete agreement. The Elements project is open source, even has a tutorial on spinning up an instance.
As for Liquid, the only semi viable thing ive seen built on it is Raretoshi for tokens tied to metadata that references ipfs hashes for images.
#Nodeyez has a fun panel that exhibits art from Nodeyez and will switch through different creators automatically
Can someone make a monero like coin on Liquid? I’m asking bc that was the draw for me on Drivechain.
Yes. Confidential transactions
But what about chain analysis? Is that still an issue with using Liquid?
Liquid has confidential transactions so you can’t see the amount that is exchanged in every utxo. Chainanal can at most try to correlate amounts in swaps in and out of liquid e.g. You swap in 0,02 and swap out around 0,02 2 days later, heuristics associate you to those transactions even though no one can be sure (same as onchain heuristics)…
my understanding of Liquid is you can still follow the money, but you just can’t see the money
Why would you not just use Monero at that point? It's more private than almost everything I have ever seen for Bitcoin.
Why would you want that? Liquid is a permissioned network. It would be a worse Monero.
Short term price flucatuations occur on both Monero and Bitcoin so it's a wash anyway.
Just swap to Monero when needed and vice versa.
Liquid only has confidential txs. Transaction graph is still completely visible. IP visible by default. And it is a permissioned network.
Yes, they stand to lose if just anyone can create theirnown liquid like network.
Adam Back has to be neutral or pro ,because i suspect his cadre is behind the push smears against it.
His public personae has plausible deniability because his minions are working behind the scenes.
Yeah don't fuck with my Sats and Sats are the standard fuck bits 🤣
would be nice if we can zap with liquid
Use all this shit first
What are your thoughts on nostr:npub180cvv07tjdrrgpa0j7j7tmnyl2yr6yr7l8j4s3evf6u64th6gkwsyjh6w6 ‘s argument that Drive Chain is necessary to scale bitcoin to the masses?
While I may not share the same viewpoint as him, as a non-developer, I believe that #Bitcoin should primarily serve as a secure store of value, akin to a savings account. For day-to-day transactions, it seems practical to utilize centralized services such as CashApp or Strike as a checking account alternative. The key is to embrace #Bitcoin’s stability and reliability, and avoid unnecessary attempts to change its core principles. Let’s remain humble and continue to stack sats for the future.
I disagree
Seems to be correct... So necessary only if we considered it as a foretaste of ‘Layer 3’...
Drivechain doesnt scale Bitcoin. It enables sidechains constrained by miners and tokens on one Drivechain are not compatible with another. This is the same fundamental limiting factor of Fedimint and Ark and other sidechains like Liquid. Moving from one to another to transact takes a minimum of 2 onchain tx or some form of atomic swap or trusted intermediary
Not true
Which part do you disagree with
Drivechain tokens could be cross compatible
It can be with atomic swaps or a trusted intermediary, neither of which exist today. There may be other solutions as well, but the inherent drive chain design does not address and by default each side chain via drive chain is its own encumbered token.
As long as you recognize they can be.
Lighting has a drive chain port called thunder, so a txn could never even see main
That just allows sending tokens of that type through a lightning network
Wrong
That was not my point at all, but I yes, I support Drivechain, so whatever, be my guest and misrepresent what I said.
Apologies, it wasn’t my intent to misrepresent your thesis. My understanding from your article “The Place of Drivechain in Bitcoin’s Future” was that:
Bitcoin needs mass adoption otherwise it will die. And “without Drivechain, Bitcoin will be a fragile success in the best case and dead in the worst case scenario.”
Anyway, even though I don’t have the technical chops to know the right way to scale, I appreciate the different points of view and ways to attack the problem. Build on brother 🤛
OK, yes, that is better.
I don't think you need to have technical chops to be able to understand Drivechain, it is just a game-theoretical construct that makes Bitcoin much better if it works, not worse at all if it doesn't.
Maybe you need some technical chops to understand that all other scaling methods that rely on pure cryptography and Bitcoin script have horrible tradeoffs. Not saying they shouldn't be tried, everything has its place, but it won't get better than Lightning -- which is not great.
And if applied, introducing unintended consequences. The risk is higher then the reward applying drivechain. Ordinals was not seen coming from implementing sigwit and taproot . If it is a great idea, let it be tested on litecoin.
Drivechain is less intrusive than taproot.
You actually dont know that. Usually when people are this confident, it bits them in the ass. If its actually worth it. It should be tested over a fork of bitcoin. Otherwise its just a risk or an attack. The open market already shows people dont want care about shitcoin assets. Rootstock and liquid have no demand. Building off lightning is the logical step
Lightning on drivechain, Thunder.
Liquid is custodied by 15 signatures. Very centralized. Drivechains are escrowed by 3-6 months (several billion dollars worth) of decentralized hashrate.
Slight diff here.
What is the meaning of « drive chain » ?
How often do new blocks get generated on Liquid?
The problem with liquid is that you have a trusted party. I think that’s why it’s not widely used.
Liquid is the shitcoin🤣
nostr:note1u25r5kvmxtcn30cjjuek4dfaajvws36jd2n80w8p8mdpmcw3dlqssgtnu2
Why do we need sidechain?
nostr:note1x04dmvwsw7mua4dnrdwqhkhvay9mj7uj3vm5zn57fredxjqza5rq6tswjk
If ethereum was a bitcoin side chain, you could create an erc20 shitcoin that could be dumped for BTC instead of ETH. Sounds like a very compelling scam to me.
I'll spin up Blockscream as a company and start operations on 10/31.
nostr:note192qur87xt34sxdqd0qd0sy20vnehtqtudcyz2t9pyd9cw5wpfd0skxsqt6
This is a legitimate critique of the sidechain idea.
Personally I don't like liquid because you need permission from an exchange to peg out. Basically a kyc chain.
If we had a nym controlled no-kyc elements chain I'd play with it.
You can use sideswap. Very good and no kyc.
Drivechains don’t add anything meaningful until there’s a clear argument that show people are not using liquid because of the federated model.
Keep in mind lots of bitcoin are circulating on ethereum as wrapped tokens with worst trust models than a federation. Which indicates that it is not not trust model that people are after.
What do you think about the fact that lots if people use monero light clients for privacy? Similar trust model to bip300.
I think these people woukd prefer to use Bitcoin on a zcash sidechain instead (because Bitcoin has more network effect)
Yeah, sideswap is awesome.
The guy that made it is pro drivechain and has said somewhere that he would upgrade it to support swapping Bitcoins between drivechains.
Check out Trocador.app
Exchange aggregator that you might find useful
true words! send your shitcoins over liquid and be happy.
The great thing about the free market is you don't have to worry about that.
Liquid requires signup and trusted legaly responsible parties (kyc).
Comparing it to DC is only useful in specific cases, such as that a sidechain might be useful to anyone at all, not in determining Drivechains appeal.
Drivechain opens upnliquid like functionality to plebs. Untrusted parties.
As an aside opinion, to demonstrate my point, the entire blockstream faction is supper into trusted parties. For some reason they along with fedimints are really really into multisig and shared wallets, and they invest in technologies and techniques that spread trust over more people. I guess that is where the money is, business relationships, but it's weird to me.
