How will nostr feel when megacorps start monetizing your free and open data and profile metadata (across all clients you use)?
Discussion
excited
At least the LLMs will be more based
😂
plenty of ways to "poison" images to counter data harvesting; just need to do the same in text.
Anti-CCP trolls and Chinese dissidents have become masters of this and other censorship-avoidance techniques.
Not that we want to constantly have to live in fear like the long-suffering Chinese people, but you gotta do what you gotta do when you live under a repressive regime.
Yeah we already replaced big social media corp with nostr now we need keep going replacing all the other big corps. that's the only way
You nailed it.
Buy at your local stores. Or a local market for things like produce.
If you must buy on Amazon, seek out small business owners that sell through Amazon.
Find local meat market/rancher, that carries grass fed grass finish beef. Along with pasture, raised animal protein.
Online is an option too, you just have to find small businesses and buy directly from them.
Always ask if they take #Bitcoin.
lol
If I make something public, can't be mad if someone uses that information 🤷♂️. Beauty of nostr is that I have full control over what I make public 😎
Isn’t that the case with every single platform out there?
No, idts. Name the platform and they are farming additional data from you without your knowledge (location, DMs, etc). On most platforms I might think something is private, but it's actually being sold to advertisers. That's only possible on Nostr with closed source clients that do shady things.
Everything you do here is on relays.. closed or open source means nothing
It means literally everything. I know the notes that I'm signing, making public, and posting to relays. That's the entire point. On closed platforms you have zero control over that process.
We’re not in disagreement …
All good. Just want to make sure passerbys understand there is a massive data sovereignty difference between close sourced, centralized platforms and Nostr. It's night and day.
People selling your public data farmed off nostr relays is not the same as what takes place on something like Gmail, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok.
You're in the driver seat on Nostr. On the others you're more like a doped up passenger in the backseat.
Not really, you should ran a server so you can see how many stuff you’re giving them. Soon Bill Gates, Elon and Jack gonna run the biggest nostr server and bum you lost it again.
I do run a relay. I'm only giving them the data that I want to be public. It's night and day different. I don't think you understand how much an app like TikTok or Facebook spy on you...
Yeah I understand that’s why I don’t install them on my mobile. #nostr still has many flaws that can be abused by many abusers, like spammers. Watchers can see all you query or see. I can query your PM metadata. Just to list some of the weakness.
I just don't agree with the classifications of "flaws" and/or "abuse". Both are misleading and inaccurate.
They insinuate something was promised and not delivered or that something is broken.
When your client publishes unencrypted data to a relay, that information is public. People will consume, query, and datamine public information you publish to the internet. That's no more a flaw than "if you scream something out your window, your neighbors might listen". It's just the reality of the activity your engaging in.
On Nostr, I decide what I want to scream out my window. The decision isn't made for me by some mega-corp.
meh
What do you mean exactly?
All of your data is public here. All the connections between apps you use are public. You basically create a complete profile of your online activity for the megacorp. And if it’s tied to a real identity - as many are and will be, you’re creating the perfect ad serving profile for anyone who wishes to use it.
Ad serving profiles only work if you use platforms that can serve ads.
The federation of Nostr between relays creates that mega platform
But I won't use a client that serves me ads.
Doesn’t sound bueno 🤔☹️
Meh they already do. At least it will lower things to the marginal cost quicker since they can all do it…maybe.
rough
Like it’s scaling.
The mistake is thinking this isn’t already happening.
🤷♂️ we’re still pretty small
how do you see that materializing? targeted ads?
Not sure yet. Maybe ultimately it doesn’t matter.
I feel it has already begun. All your nostr belong to us
For that they need to create/copy a relay.
If they begin to monetize personal data, they will be subject to royalties from people. That a dumb move to make.
If they do, i will take my share, nothing on nostr is private.
Nostr was suppose to be for private stuff ?
I would not object to a customized ad feed that I can access or not based on what I'm looking for. It would take all of my notes and replies, and allow me to put in a search parameter, and would come out with specific recommendations for products and services that it thinks I might be interested in. Then I can choose to buy those products and services and move on with my day. But the second those ads or algorithms start showing up in my main feed, I will mute that npub trying to push/pull content and I'll never have to deal with it again.
If I'm in the market looking for something, show me that thing. If I'm not in the market looking, get out of my face.
Ask Mastodon.
They can tell you a thing or two.
Meh. It's public data and an open protocol. They can do what they want.
The same as before lol
As good as I feel about not having a delete or edit option.
I've been thinking about this as well.
Here are my thoughts so far:
First, over the next decade I think we'll further define, cement, and make mass-aware the differences between anonymity and privacy.
It's hard to have both, but it's also hard to make the case for one and not the other. Technologies like Bitcoin and nostr are pushing this, as is the amount of force in the push for anti-privacy by governments and even corps.
Second, might take longer than a decade, but I think the ad-based, data-mining, revenue model is proving to be rotten and it's starting to crumble.
The ad-based model was chosen as an easy exploitation of the internet when it reached the masses - But was never designed to be sustainable. Data-mining specifically will be the hardest of the practices to get rid of and is why educating people on anonymity vs privacy is important, but is also why platforms that allow for those will be the first line of defense. It's just not sustainable as people reclaim their rights to sovereignty. It's precisely why so many consider nostr a different internet altogether - It's the accessibility in running related infrastructure.
Of course, all this hinges on the people actually wanting to fight for rights and sovereignty that was lost over time, on people equally accepting responsibility they once let go of.
Overall, you can absolutely monetize things solely off of digital data, but it's hard to do so without an anchor to a real-world identity - The where, the when, doesn't have to be the who, otherwise you can't ensure data-relevance for whatever you're selling or buying - Those that choose anonymity, even on nostr, may well win out here.
One thing to consider also... Would a form of PoW implementation potentially help in stopping monetization crawlers as it does against spamming, for instance, within communities? 🤔
... kind of like Fiat world and the collection of people I'd rather not hang out with.
I'll choose my relay(s) the same way I select events/occasions I attend. If there's good people, high signal a low noise, I'll look forward to the interaction. When I can no longer hang with those like minded individuals because they've chosen to follow "the popular kids" on the megacorp relay, l'll move on in the same I do when many of our favorite things become commercialized.
I know I can't prevent everything I willingly offer to the relay to be exclusive and private anymore than I can prevent someone from over hearing my conversation in public. If privacy is a must, I'll govern myself accordingly. That's on me not a protocol. Give me the open source and let me figure it out. I like that better than censorship, rules and mandates.
Ultimately, if the client(s) I use sell me out, I'll go elsewhere or build one myself.
There is far, far less metadata on #nostr by “default” when compared to any other socials and some apps do not collect extra data if you choose wisely
Free for all has no market value. I’m good with that.
Seems pretty lame. What a waste of life, studying humans to strategically sell more products.
Like, literally take care of your self, hangout on the beach, and enjoy the gift of Latinas.
there was a time when folks would return your wallet full of cash when you dropped it. it was an honour code.
i am confident those days will return. it may take a generation to filter out the fiat habits but btc's deflationary nature will return the values we have lost.
in the short term, we just have to keep moving forward, building better. those who take the old will always be steps behind. keep communicating. the next great idea is out there.
if they have the imagination and ability to combine various old items into something new and beneficial (a la Steve Jobs). its best we just thank them and enjoy the fruits.
be the change
GM 🙃
People will comply like usual. They need the money.
They wouldn't if clients started charging for usage, otherwise they will be incentivized to start advertising.
Advertising incentivizeses data collection.
Take away the incentive, problem will never exist.
Take my money, don't spam me with ads.