have the knots node runners realized they’ve been manipulated by a social media campaign built on lies yet or is that still a thing.
Discussion
Dont you have some keyboard buttons to play with? 🤨
i’ll take that as a no
He’s an ecash hater too tho…to be fair 🤣
why does everyone need to be into ecash? it has nothing to do with bitcoin.
I never said everyone needs to be into ecash… and it has a lot to do with bitcoin
You’re dead wrong…
no, i’m not wrong.
Its only connection to bitcoin is that some implementations piggy back on lightning for interop, but that is optional. It doesn’t need to use bitcoin at all. You could have buttcoin tokens.
it’s just data that has no value, its just an entry in a non-bitcoin database. It’s a shitcoin.
It only becomes useful when you convert the worthless token to real bitcoin. Then you’re back in a territory which is more interesting to me
It’s the same reason i am not interested in wrapped bitcoin on ethereum. Because it’s not bitcoin.
hate is a strong word. I simply can’t think of any interesting use cases for it, at least for things i want to build. I like lightning’s finality and non custodial properties better.
I love lightning too. But There are tons of interesting use cases for ecash. Your crazy lol
Try doing lightning offline .
Or how about when the lightning network fails all the time my local meetup is already saying ECash is a better solution….
ecash sats
Basically there is lightning sats and ecash sats but they are both bitcoin.
So when u say it has nothing to do with bitcoin. That makes me think what are you smoking?
Not the shitcoin… *
you can trade worthless tokens offline, go for it. It’s not real until it’s in a utxo you control.
I can meet you offline and share ecash tokens worth 21 million bitcoin. Unfortunately you won't be able to redeem them for bitcoin once you are online.
👀
It’s not for savings or even large amounts
It’s for small payments
Being more private
And more reliable
Or in the case of no internet
Or onboarding new users to lightning ⚡️ that don’t wanna pay to open a channel…
I’d never have a large ecash balance cuz u can get rugged
The same way growing up you wouldn’t want a ton of cash in your wallet because it could get lost or stolen..
Just enough to go out to eat and spending money.
Everything else ya on chain or at least self custody lightning ⚡️
In the example of 21 million bitcoin… ya obviously u wouldn’t be able to redeem…. But that’s not the point
It’s for small payments
Fast and free like lightning
It’s definitely a better custodian
Self custody is better but jb55 is in denial or has no clue… idk which
no its knowing that we can do better and putting all my time and energy into making it easier for people to hold bitcoin and use bitcoin software non-custodially.
one example of this is lnsocket and #clndash, a way to make it easy as possible to connect to your nodes, if you choose to go that route.
the fact that ecash cultists get mad that I'm not interesting in custodial tech is crazy to me.
Agree to disagree
But I love the work your doing and keep it up
you disagree with how I choose to spend my time, that's nice.
No you can spend your time however you want obviously lol
I disagree with you on knots and ecash
Big time tho
I maybe have 100 sats in ecash
Not a cultist.
But you saying it has no use cases and nothing to do with bitcoin is completely false.
I love ecash
But all my shit is onchain mainly
I love knots
But I run core
I think ecash is great
I think knots is great
I disagree completely with jb55 on this
I can literally zap you sats with ecash
How does that have nothing to do with bitcoin?
Followed ser. 
Not interested in knots 🪢
As a non-depth tech (compared to you) do you have a good resource(s) or high level points to help with this.
Also, being on knots— is it easy to roll out of it?
Yea. It's concensous. Just swap out the bitcoind with the one from core and boom, you're on core.
Abount 16%, just below the latest core. It was pushback against a very unpopular PR merge. I am not saying there were no lies. But this understandabl push back has now split the node eco system. Oh on hand it makes a split more likely, on the other it may ossify bitcoin. It is something we will have to live with.
Still a thing...
Man, you Core apologists just don’t get it. Standardizing large OP_RETURNs that you can already easily get mined today, and are more costly than just stuffing the witness data, WILL KILL BITCOIN 😭
Give us both sides.
Why run Core?
Why run Knots?
Why not to run Core?
Why not to run Knots?
Put these out with clarity and no bias and let folks decide. Knots wouldn’t exist if there wasn’t a reason in the eyes of someone. Help folks understand.
please recommend some good posts to get informed on this topic
It’s not this post, that’s for sure
yes the virtue signaling flat earther bitcoiners class of 2023 are a better resource than a bitcoin engineer who’s been working on bitcoin since 2010.
Please share some more enlightened posts from them so i can educate myself.
Oh shit he hit the with the "flat earther" 🚭🚭🚭
Well bitcoin engineer since 2010 is still shilling cashu even though its use case is obvious.
Roger Ver was bitcoiner since the same time and now he’s gone rogue.
In any case, please share more information on the OP
i think most people early on got into bitcoin for its non-custodial properties by guy.
apparently not shilling custodial tech is bitcoin class of 2025 now. sad.
Trust the science, what a low effort take lol
you don't need to trust the experts. you just need to read and use your brain for more than 2 cycles.
I requested some reading, what do you recommend?
Thanks. In your view, is the UTXO set the critical resource to protect wrt being able to run a node on modest hardware?
yes, which is why we should not create perverse incentives for people to store data in unproveably unspendable outputs like bare multisig, something which knots proponents are all for apparently.
they think they are doing the right thing but it will most likely just make the problem worse.
Do those options cost a spammer more per byte of spam payload, compared to OP_RETURN?
this was also the nail in the coffin for me recently
nostr:note18hkztahjp3nfle7le06u7wmw9uryyd2quy4m536jtpne7du58kqs9z8gdz
Strange that we come to different conclusions then.
My understanding after the storm:
Why run Core? More devs involved.
Why run Knots? More settings enabled.
Why not to run Core? Poor judgement by devs in a restrictive way to not accommodate node runner prefs.
Why not to run Knots? Single dev added settings to 99% Core codebase, but now centralizes power there.
Is this incorrect?
The number of Knot nodes continues to go up.
The people redefining words like Deprecation and Consensus 1984 style are the ones doing the manipulation.
It’s still a thing🙄
I run both 🤷♂️
I also don't blame ReiserFS for its creators behavior.
There are not many alternatives to core and I don't feel well with a monoculture.
i think people are still uncertain that none of the core devs have been manipulated or coerced (even unknowingly) by external parties to push code through that benefits said parties.
like i alluded to before, people should actually be begging for alternatives and it's weird to centralize development and not give node runners a choice, even if it's just with config options
decentralization is a net-win, so its good that knots is a thing, and I didnt heard lies from the sources I respect. I still run core (used to run knots for many years just because Luke Dashjr was the mantainer of the gentoo bitcoin packages and my machine just defaulted to knots).
I understand it is nice to have options, but yeah the whole knots thing just felt like sibling rivalry or a petty high school fight… I’m running core because I already was running core, and some day when I need more storage, I’ll buy more storage… by that time 4TB will cost as much as 2 cost when I got it… lol actually I think it already is.
Yes, giving people more options is bad. Censoring nodes that aren’t yours is good. Are you British? That would at explain explain your perspective.
ok lets give people an option to set their bitcoin higher. more options is always good! great engineering insight!
🙄 there’s no engineering insight in anything you or I said. It’s a discussion on whether or not you believe in choice for node runners. You make zero technical arguments but simply claim some are being manipulated. Maybe they don’t like core. Or core devs. Or you. You’re all so fucking arrogant you can’t admit that some people might not agree with you and that’s ok. That giving people a choice is actually a good thing. You’re the mob despite playing the victim. I ran core until they pissed me off so I voiced my displeasure by switching. That’s how the system is supposed to work. You’re not entitled to anything
I would engage in debate if there was anything left to say. the debate is done and people have taken their sides. it's not my job do the work of thinking for other people.
If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
Fair enough. Nobody wants you to think for them anyway. I don’t like the “yall are being manipulated” position. Some of us think for ourselves and disagree. And that’s ok. We might all see you as a bunch of core sycophants. But I’d rather presume that you’ve thought about it and came to your own conclusions. Even if it’s flawed
It's good to have multiple implementations and it's not even written from scratch.
It will continue to be a thing as long as core devs create demand for an alternative client. The tactic of accusing your opponents of some conspiracy (social media campaign built on lies) is lazy and disingenuous. And your smug confidence that you yourself cannot possibly be manipulated, only those who disagree with you can be, is laughable. There's plenty of manipulation going on from both sides, it's called persuasion and you suck at it.
What's your take? Knots facts are solid as far as I am concerned.
I think instagibb's writeup sums it up nicely
https://gist.github.com/instagibbs/c436110890ab25aa9997b13c2270d5ce
Almost all TX adhere to the op return limit, so saying that the filter doesn't work is just dishonest and it's utility is to limit non financial garbage which it empirically does. Why take away the choice of a node runner to not facilitate spam?
I'm still on the fence in all honesty. But just so you know, in case you're genuinely trying to influence people, this sort of rhetoric is ineffective. You sound like a smug cunt.
I am not trying to influence people, I really don't give a shit. I am not an influencer.
calling it a campaign is a huge overstatement. it’s just an unfortunate group psychosis
Have you realised you are Core's little cuck subject?
I am an independent bitcoin core engineer with no affiliation to anyone. apparently that makes me a cuck. nice one!
You do realise no one's going to use Core 30 when it drops lmao. Core are so out of touch. Can't wait to wipe the smirk off of all these smug genius computer scientist devs faces
I will
is that a threat?
Knots can’t stop the NFT spam and Core doesn’t know how to stop it.
Instead of being at each other’s throats we should recognize these facts as (current) technical limitations — not tribal beliefs.
Please try to stop going down ever decreasing circles.
And I mean that for both sides.
We are all better than this, especially you Will.
Yeah we are tards and need super intelligent beings like you who indicate the way...
GFY!
People taking the rage bait is crazy. Just run wtf ever you want it's your node lol.
