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I hear people say things like “a wife should be submissive”, “relationships can’t be 50/50, they have to be 51/49”, “the breadwinner/protector is the decision maker”, “the man is the leader", "women need love not respect" etc, etc. And then nearly in the same breath ask “why don’t women want to get married anymore?!?!”

Well ya know, when you are offering people servitude, and they have other options in life, you shouldn’t be surprised when your offer gets turned down. The human spirit wants to be free 🕊️

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Discussion

Ava 10mo ago

So very well said: "The human spirit wants to be free 🕊️." 🙏🏻💜

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Deleted Account 10mo ago

I’m a man and I never hear men that talk like this.

HannahMR 10mo ago

That's excellent! I have unfortunately hear this quite a lot. Especially in the past 3 years. I have people follow me around a room just to try to explain these things to me.

smallworlnd 10mo ago

That sounds very tiresome

Deleted Account 10mo ago

Sounds like you have surrounded yourself with shitty people. Unless, you have no control over who surrounds you. 🫤

HannahMR 10mo ago

I have surrounded my self with Bitcoiners and libertarians. People who I thought I had values alignment with. but over the past ~3 years I've watched a lot of them change their values. ...it's been a sad few years for me.

Deleted Account 10mo ago

I’m sorry to hear that. I’m a libertarian bitcoiner myself. But, libertarian bitcoiners can be shitty people too.

Don’t fall for the sunk cost fallacy. Get the fuck out of there.

Ava 10mo ago

Tried zapping you on the post and directly, and I keep getting this error.

HannahMR 10mo ago

I know, it's broken, thanks.

U-P-G-R-A-Y-E-D-D 10mo ago

You just need to find a man that inspires you to follow his lead, defer to his judgement, and to "submit" your feminine energy to his masculine energy. Even in this case, the feminine will ultimately remain in charge, but not on the physical plane.

I think the problem is that, unfortunately, such men (and women) have become exceedingly rare in contemporary times. Men have been programmed to be feminine and women have been programmed to be masculine.

Ultimately, my attempt to make a rational argument for this is futile. You'll only understand it once you feel it, and submit to it.

HannahMR 10mo ago

Ya, I will decline that offer. I prefer to be free 🕊️

U-P-G-R-A-Y-E-D-D 10mo ago

every year that passes, those "other options" will become fewer and fewer, until the only options that remain are: which netflix show to watch, which cheap bottle of wine to drink to avoid facing reality, and what cope to tell yourself when you see beautiful happy families living fulfilling lives.

Not trying to be a dick. I only responded because I wanted to be helpful. Young women have been marinated in harmful anti-family propaganda for their entire lives.

It doesn't end well for most of them. After that last egg drops, and the bloom of the flower wilts, the hummingbirds stop coming for the nectar. Most only realize that they bought into a lie after it's too late. The rest lie to themselves and celebrate their "freedom" as a psychological cope.

Would you rather live your life in a cubicle, or lonely remote office, and ordering uber eats for one? Serving and submiting to a mid-level manager that would wouldn't think twice about dropping you to make his quarterly numbers?

Or, would you rather serve and submit to an honorable man that loves you unconditionally, that would do anything, even give his own life, to provide for and protect you and your children, and their children?

HannahMR 10mo ago

"would you rather serve and submit to an honorable man that loves you unconditionally" no. I would not want that and they don't either, and that is the point here.

U-P-G-R-A-Y-E-D-D 10mo ago

I knew it was futile, but put in the effort anyway. I wish the best you and hope you find what you're looking for.

HannahMR 10mo ago

Ya know these topics are interesting because it gets pretty existential pretty quickly. What do you think you are? What do you think our purpose is here?

Personally I see us as souls temporarily inhabiting human bodies. I am not a woman, I am a soul existing here very temporarily in a female body.

I find a part of the purpose of life (guessing here as claiming to know the purpose of life is wild hubris) to be personal development and individuation. Having a sub/dom relationship holds both parties back from taking on full responsibility for their life and in letting go of trying to control others. I see these arrangements as contrary to development and contrary to the purpose of life itself.

HannahMR 10mo ago

Here is one of my favorite quotes along these lines.

HannahMR 10mo ago

Be free, and support the freedom of others 🕊️✌️

purrs_for_Her 10mo ago

these people are just promoting a non consensual D/s lifestyle, basically

HannahMR 10mo ago

yup. ...well, you get to consent once, and then that applies for the rest of your life.

purrs_for_Her 10mo ago

lol

but not for "70% of women"

plor 10mo ago

I don't disagree with you, most pushing this are scumbags. However I think submission does not equate to servitude. I'm not trying to convince you to want to submit, but that some women (and men) find it appealing.

HannahMR 10mo ago

Trust is very appealing! it is so wonderful to have a partner that you can trust and rely on! And I think that's what people often mean.

The technical definition of submit is "accept or yield to a superior force or to the authority or will of another person." Certainly that is not healthy in a loving relationship.

plor 10mo ago

I just think there is a burden on submission (i.e. loss of full autonomy) as well as a burden of leadership (i.e. responsible for others). Again, only arguing in principle, you do you.

HannahMR 10mo ago

Ya burden would be a good word.

I see these kinds of arrangements and a failure of development and individuation. To become a fully actualized adult you have to take on responsibility for yourself and you have to realize that you don't control others. These arrangements hold us back from that.

HannahMR 10mo ago

*as a failure of development

plor 10mo ago

Ok, that makes sense. The whole women submit thing is basically an extension of childhood then. I can probably agree with you that this is bad. I will think on this more, because maybe my framework for understanding is flawed.

purrs_for_Her 10mo ago

well, "submission" can very well exist in a healthy, loving relationship.

but it's not something the "dominant" partner demands—it's something the submissive partner needs.

the submission is an expression of love and given willingly.

HannahMR 10mo ago

If you were to use the word "trust" I would agree with you.

purrs_for_Her 10mo ago

you know, i thought about adding in something about trust since you mentioned it in your other reply. but it's more than just trust—there's a deep intimacy, a mutual respect, and vulnerability in this type of submission. it's something that's desired and inspired—just a way *some* of us are wired.

trust is foundational in this—in any healthy relationship. but this greatly differs from the view of "submission" that most of these trads types espouse—the focus never seems to be on choice or trust, but compliance.

nout 10mo ago

Where do you keep finding these assholes?