Yes. I'm in Bitcoin for the original cypherpunk ethos (personal freedom, privacy, and decentralization) outlined in the white paper—which is why I also use Monero.

There is a large sell-out, highly-regulated price to pay for government adoption and "money go up." If Bitcoin is not used as a currency, and only as an historically well-performing, highly-volatile asset/commodity, it will still likely be a good investment, but it will have been neutered as a global cryptoCURRENCY, and have failed in its original vision.

Snowden has been warning the Bitcoin devs for years to bake in privacy on the protocol level, and the clock is ticking. Cash can be used privately. Everything will be tracked when we go full digital on a public blockchain. When AI is put to the task of on-chain analysis, all the hoops Bitcoiners have been jumping through for years to try and use Bitcoin privately will have been of little use.

There is a reason Bitcoin is being co-opted by the powers that be, while Monero is being delisted from the CEXs.

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It is notes like this that make me take stock, reassess and ask why a few times to work back to the core reasons of what the hell I’m doing and more importantly, why am I doing? 🙏

ya but ava, don't discount the reluctance of coinbase to do lightning without some 3rd party scapeBOAT

they didnt want to do it.

theyre scared of the privacy.

fuckin’ A

And that is why I am ditching #btc. It's time has passed.

Seems like you lack the Nuances here in your argument and are dealing in absolutes. There can not be privacy in base layer bitcoin, get over it. This is an explicit trade off made for auditablity. Now that there is a immutable base layer that everyone can agree to on order to build the higher layers in which privacy for everyday payments can be made? Absolutely. Saying monero is a solution is missing the forest for the trees. Monero being delisted isn't something to be proud of. This limits its liquidity profile thus making it a worse money. Do some homework about this shit before forming naive surface level convictions (opinions)

Bitcoin Lightning is Bitcoin's "p2p cash" layer, and is very private.

Given your infosec background, I'm sure what I am about to say is nothing new for you, so I am mostly speaking to "the room" here.

Yes, Lightning offers better privacy than Bitcoin when set up properly, but it also has a more complex system, equating to a larger attack surface. LN's privacy features are not automatic; users must understand and manage their privacy settings actively, which can lead to unintentional exposure of transaction details.

A fundamental privacy weakness persists in the asymmetric nature of Lightning transactions—the sender learns extensive details about the receiver's node, channels, and liquidity, while the receiver learns nothing about the sender. Plus, there's the persistent hassle of maintaining channel liquidity.

Even with proper setup, Lightning faces critical privacy vulnerabilities against global adversaries who can monitor network traffic—while individual participants can't see payment details, entities capable of monitoring internet connections can track payment flows by observing message patterns between nodes, making its privacy guarantees fundamentally weak against sophisticated surveillance.

Lightning falls well short of the anonymity provided by Monero with its stealth addresses, ring signatures, and RingCT—and soon, Full-chain Membership Proofs (FCMPs) will fix current vulnerabilities like the Exchange Attack Everywhere (EAE) attack. With FCMPs, every input will have a 100-million anonymity set, up from the current 16 Ring Signatures.

Where privacy is a concern, I still recommend Monero over Lightning for most people, as Monero's privacy features are built-in on the base layer and work by default.

Monero is privacy by default.

Monero is also a little gay by default

As in happy or the other way? 🤣

😒😒😒😒😒😒 😏👉

cashu with professional “bitcoin banks” LN operators facilitating the money transfer is the privacy future.

Don’t like the custody trade off? Run your own node. Too difficult? Use a trusted mint.

It scales, it’s private, and it works right now.

Don't like either of those? Use Monero for strong default privacy. No intermediaries or compsci degrees required.

That's the worst future. The last thing we need is custodial on all ends.

#btc #theyaregoingtocatchontothis #tagtcott

Agreed with that. Also do not forget that there is no guarantee that a Lightning payment goes through and it is not really permissionless

The reality is currency is going to be between CBDCs, stable coins and Bitcoin. Monero is not going to be widely accepted. So I think it’s better to try and improve bitcoin’s privacy. That’s humanity’s best chance of having any privacy at all.

Says the dude with a Strike wallet lmfao. Neither p2p nor private from Strike.

The problem here is as soon as they bake in privacy on the protocol level there can be a higher possibility for delistings. This is against the fairy tale Bitcoin is a store of value because it will loose value. They don't want that.

Highly scarce money starts as primarily a NGU vehicle. Its use as a medium of exchange is enhanced by this. This trumps everything in the long term. It will not remain underutilized in spending forever. Number go up is intrinsically part of medium of exchange, and reinforces it to such an extent that it would take a tremendous amount of trust in government and slow encroachments to cause something significantly less sound to win. That's exactly what happened to gold.

Just a thought…

Low liquidity and delisting risk = censorable

Uncensorable > Private

Delisting Monero from CEXs makes it more private by pushing users toward decentralized alternatives and the network remains fully functional and private.

And its price, reach, and ubiquity in private txns all the more impressive

I understand hating memecoins, NFTs, etc.

I dont understand hating privacy tokens with actual users who rarely have ambition to get rich or for NGU.

But there is real animosity from bitcoiners at xmr, and its a bad, scarce look.

Maybe i missed something from the past and monero started with some shitcoining bros....but i dont see it.

Ive only ever came across monero convos on nostr. In those instances, price is never discussed, the protocol is.

Even still, What keeps me from engaging more with monero is i have only begun understanding and using the bitcoin and lightning protocols.

Bitcoin is my favorite and i want to know it better.

Isn’t a bitcoin layer two such as Cashu a good solution for private transactions?

(I admit to not having the deepest understanding of how Cashu works yet, still learning about it.)

But in general, why can’t layer two provide privacy instead of changing how the base layer works?

It's a good solution for private transactions but you give up self custody.

Yep. Nothing is going to pass bitcoin at this point and privacy technology can be introduced via 2 layer options ecash, cashu lightning etc

There are just too many alt coin alternatives for any to gain mainstream adoption. Id wager a 100,000 sats on it that monero never goes away but never gains any substantial market share on bitcoin either.

🧡🍻👊🏻

Monero is the most anon

So anon that hardly anyone uses it. Lol

lol no doubt

Do you have a preferred platform for non KYC bitcoin?

The only issue is p2p transactions. Either do it in person (or by mail), in cash, or you have to use some kyc shit to send or receive the fiat. When you don't live in the city is hard to find someone to transact. When you do, you can get knifed

i like monero, i use it and have taken the time to figure out how to run a node and mine to that node ( truly impressive user experience compared to the equivalent in btc).

but, since i dont need anything near an 'enemy of the state' level privacy..its just easier to use lightning for now since its more accepted. but im ready to flow in between the two dynamically when the need arises 🤙

The tool of choice is holding my own keys

at the end of the day its about freedom from goons wanting to freeze or seize my cheese

Really well educated response, I'd believe the same if I lived in El Salvador or somewhere with strong btc adoption I guess but for digital products I end up seeing the same adoption from LN as XMR equally so I always prefer using XMR, but can also move dynamically as needed

Yes. And at the same time Privacy is critical for freedom and protected rights. Need both Privacy and Uncensorable. Hence the ticking clock. Just need wallets to build in all privacy tools available.