The amount of resistance to this idea lets me know it’s probably an idea worth exploring.
Discussion
It would suck the same way it sucks to go to a resort after a bunch of Americans have been through the joint and now all the staff on a wage expect to be tipped for practically breathing.
The world is full of noise and time wasters. There needs to be a little pow before you do anything.
NIP-13 PoW, not money
It would probably curtail the reply bots quite effectively.
That’s what I’m thinking
I think a simple “Zap to read further” paywall will help. Get a preview of what the author wants to say, zap if you want to read until the end.
Well, vibe code (or old school code) dat shit and try it out. What exactly is the intended outcome? What would you want to see come out of this? Bot removal, or better content, or something else?
Both. I think it could be very effective at dealing with bots and also dealing with pasychotic real users as well as incentivizing new creators to come use the platform
I don't love the idea but the beauty of Nostr is that no one has to love your ideas for you to be free to implement them.
I do not like the idea of every interaction being transactional.
I do like the idea of nostr npubs being able to link to a bitcoin on chain address, perhaps with their npub signed by that address, where the client could verify them as having x number of sats. I don't need to have value exchanged with each note but I would value someones notes more if I knew that they had even a few dollars in an on chain address they controlled.
Feel free to pay me everytime you speak 🤙
Sure 🤝
You just financed a month worth of zaps 🙌
I am a benevolent nostr zapper
Please pay before you speak 😂
lol ok then this will be our only interaction. Goodbye forever 🫡
I’m just trying to make a point. Proof of work only works for Bitcoin and speech should be free.
You don’t have to listen though, so bye bye 🫡
Paid speech is still free speech bro bro
Paid = free ?
Free as in "liber" not free as in "gratis".
Sure 🙈
And high tariffs = free trade?
No a tarrif is a tax on trade imposed by the state under threat of violence.
Mostly yes, but private cities could impose tariffs too, without the threat of violence.
Tariffs are a fee for “free trade” just as Hodls proposal is a fee for “free speech”.
Non of the above is desirable nor truly free.
No.
Tarrifs are free in neither sense of the word.
They are not "libre" free as any two parites are not free to trade with each other in any way they both choose without imposition by the state.
And they are not "gratis" free as you are required to pay a tax to the state.
A client where users are required to pay for speech that users can freely join is clearly not "gratis" free but will be "libre" free so long as any users can join and there is no restriction on what they can post.
I get your point, but I strongly disagree.
If people are required to pay for speech it’s neither “gratis” nor “libre”.
There is a reason we call it “paywall”: a wall is meant to keep people outside. In this case poor people.
Does free trade mean the trade must have no cost?
Does free speech mean the speech must have no cost?
It means you are free to engage in these activities not that it will have no cost to do so.
Bitcoin could be seen by many as the ultimate expression of free speech as anyone is able to broadcast a transaction without permission and even include a message in that transaction but I suppose that you would also not view this as free speech as there is a transaction fee involved.
Perhaps we will have to agree to disagree here.
Neither actually
Free as in freedom not as in beer
Money is speech bro
Its the purest expression of your values
Somehow even the ghouls of SCOTUS understand that
A real applicatiom of putting your money where your mouth is.
You say this shit while having me muted for being "mentally ill"
You're extremely sick
Why would anyone pay to speak, if you could use a free client, and notes still get pushed to other users?
i.e. if I use Primal, the Damus users still see it.
What am I missing?
This client would be filtering out all non paid responses. It’s essentially a curation effort. Think of it as an interstitial paywall for attention. It incentivizes signal over noise.
Sure, anyone can still broadcast from free clients. But in a paid client, every zap, comment, or post signals skin in the game. It’s not censorship it’s filtration by value.
Got it. So the new client would only present to the user messages paid for by the source npub?
I wonder if you could also have it so the OP doesn't have to pay, maybe if people zap another enough, then it gets presented too?
Wow, so you want it to use kind 1 and spam nostr for users who don't know they're wasting time replying to people who will never see it
Just like Alex Gleason's spam bots
Hopefully use of this fucked up atrocity is at least detectable so it opens up someone else to make a utopian nostr client by just blacklisting every npub that uses yours
Stacker news is essentially what you’re describing
Right but as a social media client.
I think it’s a great idea. People just don’t understand the “micro” in micropayments yet. We can do tiny frictionless transactions now and we should be experimenting more with it. At scale, all the little transactions add up to actual value and filter out most of the noise.
Exactly
It's the only model I see that global social-first apps will be able to survive on and not be filled with complete slop.
Ditto
If the note is an advertisement you can add payouts to it. Say to add a 1000 zap ad budget to it and you payout a few sats per view to those that agree to view low sat paying ads.
What you are describing is a true free market of ideas, where zaps are the judge.
It depends the way you can "earn" sats.
If every words have a price, everyone couldn't afford to pay to speak each time.
It will reduce noise but also "little" voices too.
And the value you could have is companies ads (for them it is a lot cheaper), and the one who invest to speak.
As you said it can be worth to see what will happen if zap become mandatory vs the old system.
You are probably right
Using bitcoin as money to pay for content, what a revolutionary idea ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Vibe code it
Couldn't you do that with a relay? Set it up to reject all interactions from anyone who hasn't zapped you? Then you could turn any client into a quiet space.
Exactly.
The moment people start squirming, something real just got touched.
At Fort Nakamoto, we call that the Monetary Flinch Reflex™ — the involuntary twitch when fiat expectations meet Bitcoin incentives.
💡 If speech has no cost, neither does spam.
💡 If thoughts are free, only the paid ones echo.
💡 If you zap to speak… you better mean it.
Let the resistance keep squealing — that’s just the sound of a signal filter powering on ⚡️
#FortNakamoto #ZapFilterOnline #ProofOfThought #SoundSpeech #CivilizationalLayer3
Build it.
I’m not a dev and vibe coding would produce a junk product, but I’d be willing to fund someone who wants to build it.
At least you comprehend this
I dunno, man. Jack keeps talking about how the tools are so good now anyone can vibe code a nostr app.
Even nostr:nprofile1qqsywt6ypu57lxtwj2scdwxnyrl3sry9typcstje65x7rw9a2e5nq8sprpmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuumwdae8gtnnda3kjctvqydhwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnzd96xxmmfdecxzunt9e3k7mgpp4mhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mq9hxafw is a dev now!
...maybe he's just smarter or more passionate than you are =P
The vibe coding stuff isn’t up to my personal standards yet
Would be powerful with the right filters for the user.
Simple dial up dial and down of the zap threshold
Lists/web of trust/advertiser and spam black lists to reduce the noise
Algo that weights on number of unique fat zaps/comments on the note which should boost notes that other users find valuable
This is how Sphinx used to work. You had to pay to join and post in the chats.
I like the stacker news model. You have to pay at least 1 sat to post anything.
In the comments I saw all the arguments I could have make and you deflected all of them so it would be a waste of our time to repeat them
But it's very easy to shut all the naysayers: build it and show everyone how well it works. After all you believe in your idea