my totally unbiased presentation slide as to why damus notedeck/android exists. Listed some of the main features that I wanted in a client that didn't exist elsewhere. 
Discussion
What does a rogue relay do?
generally return bad/dos results when given a query. notedeck only reads from the local relay so its immune to these kinds of attacks. It doesnāt have to do extra robustness/checking logic when receiving results from random relays.
Jeez primal doesnāt do too well here does it!!
Nostr browser (for apps), outbox and crossplatform I think are the major distinguishers.
Even though, I don't think outbox has been implemented yet in notedeck? Just a local relay to sync to, if I remember correctly.
yeah its pretty trivial to add, i just wanted to focus on the android release first
Trivial-ish, there are a whole lot of other issues that can surface in the process, probably not in regards to the UI though, as it's decoupled. So that is good.
Two I've noticed awhile ago: centralization of (and missing) NIP-65 info at relays (could be a whole research project) and a need for broader support for negentropy for greater efficiency with hundreds to thousands of relays to communicate (and not always online).
true, it's probably not that trivial, but i wouldn't even bother to attempt it without separating UI from relay behavior
didnāt exist elsewhere all together *
Primal gets 2/9. Lowest score by far š
Is notedeck available on iOS?
not yet but its planned
Add columns to support for external signer and embed Tor for private queries :P
everyone has different things they care about.. I don't care about those.
Every corp IT vendor has this slide in their slide deck haha
Inevitably shows their product checking more feature boxes than competitors.
But all the competitors have the same slide too lol
You are going to make a lot of people mad š
I love notedeck, and I somewhat agree with your assessment. But this is a little bit unfair, only because itās not a user generated categories.
Can I use it on Android now?
if you build it yeah. I am not officially releasing it yet because it's going to be a larger announcement
Okkk. I hope you publish it on nostr:nprofile1qqs83nn04fezvsu89p8xg7axjwye2u67errat3dx2um725fs7qnrqlgzqtdq0 as well. š«”
I may but I heard that is centralized ?
nostr:nprofile1qqs8y6s7ycwvv36xwn5zsh3e2xemkyumaxnh85dv7jwus6xmscdpcygpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezumrpdejz76jympz
What is centralized about it?
i dunno, if its not then great
There was a time when my understanding was that Zapstore worked on only a singular specific relay. Not sure if that was true or if so, if that has changed since then. Itās a great idea regardless as the decentralized aspect of it unlocks so much. Would it make sense to combine it with Blossom if itās not yet doing that?
Where does Zapstore keep apk files?
Oh looks like the docs mention Blossom support already, so the answer is anywhere you want. Great! I think it can read from GitHub or other arbitrary internet sources too. nostr:npub1wf4pufsucer5va8g9p0rj5dnhvfeh6d8w0g6eayaep5dhps6rsgs43dgh9 can correct me if Iām wrong. Iām several months out of date on his project.
Yes! With the latest zapstore-cli you can choose any amount of Blossom servers to push your assets to, in addition to the default cdn.zapstore.dev.
For Github releases (which will soon be living in a separate relay) the APKs are fetched from Github first, and we keep a copy as backup.
Zapstore is decentralized.
You can use it with any relay as long as it follows the Software Application NIP I proposed. To change the relay, at the moment you need to fork the app because it's hardcoded.
I will of course make that much more convenient, relay management is coming to the next major version for which I'm working my ass off.
Every piece of the stack is open source and I will encourage people to run other relays instances with software releases.
I don't know who said it was centralized but why would it be, when it's built on nostr and supported by OpenSats? Makes no sense.
I might have accidentally embellished it in one of my conversations with some other folks, around the fact that thereās only one client and one relay at the moment. Wasnāt meant to be a dig at the project, just sharing the state of affairs. But thereās no reason why there canāt be more clients and relays. Keep at it!
Thankyou for your service š«”
Zapstore is an improvement over centralized app stores by virtue of building on top of nostrās relay model. That is, information can be stored on an infinite number of relays, which makes banning by any censor a much more difficult task.
nostr:npub1wf4pufsucer5va8g9p0rj5dnhvfeh6d8w0g6eayaep5dhps6rsgs43dgh9 how many relays does ZS publish to today?
If I am a censor, what do I ban in order to censor one or all apps on nostr:npub10r8xl2njyepcw2zwv3a6dyufj4e4ajx86hz6v4ehu4gnpupxxp7stjt2p8 ?
Today, Zapstore publishes to one relay.
No one is going to censor any apps on Zapstore anytime soon.
Definitely not before I add relay management. It's not "just" about the UI, there are a lot of considerations specific to software releases (not the case for kind 1 notes).
Also, unlike many other devs on nostr, I do want to get the spec right- learned many lessons over the past year. No need to pollute relays with half-assed events that then I would need to be backwards compatible with. Keeping things in one relay is much easier for migration.
Keep buidling šŖ
No. Fran can explain it.
Ohhhh I see now.
When you wrote/android you were saying this apple client is as good as an android client?
Because when I initially read your post I thought /android meant this was an android client.
Primal offers easy zaps, Damus doesnāt?
false. we have a one click, non-kyc wallet that works anywhere in the world. I canāt even use primals wallet in canada
Is there a short video that explains?
Just open the wallet tab and click setup. Done.
Well hot damn, I didnāt realize a wallet had been added to Damus. ā¤ļø
Can someone please help explain this NWC thing. Is my nostr private key also my wallet key?
Here's more information about nostr wallet connect.
I create new NWC connections for multiple apps using albyhub on Start9. It's also available on Umbrel and as a cloud service at albyhub.com.
Hope that helps answer your question.
Got it. So maybe this is a damus specific question because Iāve now got a coinos wallet without ever providing or receiving any additional information. All good for a fast setup, but if reinstall damus how do I restore or reconnect the wallet??
Damus derives the wallet from your npub. So you can delete the app. And just ask it to fire the wallet back up. Iāve done it a few times. Works great. Restores your balance just fine.
Scam? I donāt see Sats in CoinOS. Where are my options in Damus to send/receive?
we had this in the next release which apple blocked, the workaround right now is to change your lnurl to your other wallet and zap yourself
Whatās the Inurl?
the bitcoin lightning address? thats how zaps work. it just fetches an invoice from your lnurl and then damus will pay the invoice. if you have another wallet you want to send to you need to zap that lnurl
Nothing shows here?
the one-click setup wallet is not accessible on the web, you have to zap it out of your damus wallet until apple approves our send feature
How? Inurl? First screenshot from Damus doesnāt show me the option. How do I do the zap from Damus using Boltz?
Damus can only zap profiles or notes, you have to update your profile bitcoin address and zap yourself as i mentioned before
Is there a quota that I can send? I get this error. I probably have to update my Bitcoin address after I send the Sats from my screenshot out.
Trying to zap it back to nostr:npub1jcr32x73453qdjp9wplk5kp6mxhdzttrvl4dvfhtyj3f8punn2hqds3whq
nostr:nprofile1qqsr9cvzwc652r4m83d86ykplrnm9dg5gwdvzzn8ameanlvut35wy3gpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumt0wd68ytnsw43qzyrhwden5te0dehhxarj9ekxzmnyz6hhf0 the support messaging feature doesnāt work? Also how do I configure my wallet?
is this coinos? we are adding a quota limit modifier to the UI very soon. nostr:npub13v47pg9dxjq96an8jfev9znhm0k7ntwtlh9y335paj9kyjsjpznqzzl3l8 is this in master yet ?
Yes coinos
Not on master yet, but it's ready to go.
Merged it!
It will be on the next TestFlight!
How do I get on TestFlight? Still says I reached a quota.
Hey Joe! You can get TestFlight through this link: https://damus.io/purple/login/. Youāll need to sign up for our subscription as those users get early access to features through TestFlight. Let us know if you run into any issues! Thanks!
This the sliding feature youāre referring to. Just slide it to the max and zap myself? Zap will go from default wallet to Bitcoin address?
Hi Joe, the new max budget setting was successfully implemented but it is not yet released to the public ā However it will be released and made available soon! Please stay tuned!
Do I wait for update to make connection? Can I connect my online profile to the address with Sats?
just set your "bitcoin lightning address" in your profile (edit profile) to the lightning address you want to send your sats to, then zap yourself
Did you see my screenshot about amount? I zapped nostr:npub1jcr32x73453qdjp9wplk5kp6mxhdzttrvl4dvfhtyj3f8punn2hqds3whq back and got error.
If I update my addressā¦ how does it know to zap from the correct wallet that I canāt seem to access, if I change address on profile to another address isnāt it going to use that wallet?
If I have a Bitcoin address for CoinOS and primalā¦ when I updated Damus with wallet it changed my primal Bitcoin address, so if I change my address back to primal, how does it connect to my CoinOS wallet?
Is there a max amount I can zap to a profile? The 329,000 Sats that I apparently received, I couldnāt even send back to nostr:npub1jcr32x73453qdjp9wplk5kp6mxhdzttrvl4dvfhtyj3f8punn2hqds3whq ?
Youāre over complicating this. If you still have that wallet that shows 329k in your damus wallet section then do the following:
1. Go to your profile and put the lightning address that you want your sats to go to. (WoS, alternate CoinOS, Strike whatever)
Profile > edit > bitcoin lightning tips [save]
2. Go back to your Damus profile and tap the lighting bolt and then zap yourself the total that you want to send.
No doubt when it comes to me overcomplicating it.
I changed my Bitcoin address to Strike, I zapped myself 20,000. Nothing added to Strike and this is what my Damus Wallet looks like now.
Maybe I tried to zap too quickly after updating Bitcoin address?
Also I see this? Does it need to be local default because I am Zapping from there, or do I need to change to Strike even though I setup Bitcoin address to Strike? nostr:nprofile1qqsr9cvzwc652r4m83d86ykplrnm9dg5gwdvzzn8ameanlvut35wy3gpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumt0wd68ytnsw43qzyrhwden5te0dehhxarj9ekxzmnyz6hhf0 any insight?
I promise to teach 100 people once I understand correctly.
Oh if it has its own wallet that's just as easy to use as the primal one this could be my new default client.
You forgot localization. Only Damus iOS and Amethyst have multi-language support and automatic note translations. Nostur supports only English and Dutch so I donāt really count it fully. Notedeck will have multi-language soon.
The translation feature on amethyst is cool.
Like how well it works. It seems better/more accurate than the Facebook translation feature.
You should also make a second slide about the average user. They do notc are about a bunch of things.
How clients handle outbox doesnāt matter, as long as it works.
Local full text does not matter, if it works well matters.
Cross-platform and microapps are a big sell.
nostur looking quite good
can you add comparisons to web clients?
š 
You can be censored on any Nostr client if you use WoT relays.
How does that work?
Because WoT relay runners can refuse your posts or remove you at any time for any reason.
Any relay can do that whenever they want.
True but WoT relays are the worst offenders because they function like a social credit score.
The idea of a global firehose feed is impossible. Nostr is barely used and already its impossible to find any note worth reading if you look at the global firehose feed. Every relay that doesn't make use of some form of heuristic based automatic filter will get DDOSed at some point by petabytes of spam. WOT is just one tactic to sort it. The prevailing alternative will probably be paid relays, but even the tiniest payment is a hard sell when people are used to the internet being free. So much of the internet is just a massive struggle against the inevitable end where everything is monetized. Lightning micropayments make this possible.
The problem that WoT has is that spam is such a vague term. How would you even define it?
This isn't a blockchain. There's no need for consensus. The point is that every relay operator decides what they care about storing. Everyone can define it themselves. WoT is one type of spam filter that trusts follow lists of known real users to try and guess who else is a real user.
Think about the lack of advertising on nostr.
Like if nostr was Facebook or Twitter right now, a pretty portion of those users would seriously be willing to pay a micro transaction to remove all the advertisements.
People don't realise how good nostr is without ads because it never had them.
The people who would pay to remove ads from other social media, those people should all be willing to contribute to relays for an improved experience. But they probably wouldn't see the point because nostr already does not have ads.
I think the real issue is user friendliness.
I barely understand how to configure the relays, actually I don't even barely understand, I haven't bothered to learn yet.
The easier it gets for the common non tech users the easier it'll get for everyone else I think.
Convince people that the spam is actually advertisements
They will 1 stop complaining about spam because everything else on the internet is more oversaturated with advertising than nostr is with spam.
2 be happy to pay a small fee to remove the spam, assuming they think of the spam as ads
Sorry if I am mistaken, but if your relay is private (you run your own) then DDS attacks are not possible as only activities of my nsec get saved there. Or am I missing something?
Yes. There's still risks that any computer connected to the internet has of getting attacked, but filling up your drive with spam notes is not one.
this is why wot relays are dumb. wot should be done on the client
Any relay runner can do this.
Cool I'll check it out.
Could not find it in the app store.
Where do I download this client?
Waiting for the matrix from nostr:nprofile1qyx8wumn8ghj7cnjvghxjmcpz4mhxue69uhk2er9dchxummnw3ezumrpdejqqgzn9kpsmllqnsf7wh5tz3wgy4cclsftqqplv8tpayrhwgw8llunevgnmdf3 now š¤£
'Has shirtless jungle boys'
Adding multi-protocol to Notedeck would be a total blast!
what do you mean?
wait so primal censors you? talk about defeating the whole purpose of the dang thing