Bro I was thinking about this yesterday and I canât think of any moral argument for worship. It doesnât do anything for god. It doesnât make god stronger or anything. And if god doesnât get anything out of it, why does he want people to do it? And if itâs such a good act, why is worshipping something else considered a sin? If someone worshipped satoshi, that would be considered sinful. How can act be considered be evil just based on who that act is directed toward?
Discussion
I've thought a lot about this. Satan eants you to worship him too. For the same reason, I believe. It's just like in BC when you would sacrifice animals or crops to attone for your sins, and like Christ sacrificing himself for our sins. I think it's about energy. If you do something negative selfishly, you have to do something positive selflessly. God draws energy from your worship. Demons (that is fallen angels, read Enoch) draw energy from the same thing. Moloch and all the other watchers draw spiritual energy from our sins, especially when they're done in their name. In return, that's why "Satanists", the occult, do sacrifices to dark spirits. They give in the physical to receive in the spiritual. I can't explain further because I'm a physical being who can't possibly fully understand the spiritual realm.
If god wants us to worship him so he can have more energy, then isnât god selfish? And if he wants energy, then that means he is lacking in energy. Because one only wants what he lacks. But if he doesnât need energy, then that means god wants energy in excess. That is greedy. Either way, this argument paints god as either selfish or greedy. Possibly both.
For one, I think we should step back. You say selfish like it's a cuss word. There's a difference between doing something selfish that hurts others and doing something selfish that only improves your situation. Life is painful and God made life. From what sense I can make, God only even made anything because what else would you do? If I can make a universe, bro I am making a universe. So yeah, you could call God selfish. But he also allegedly wrote a book, and sent angels to help us live happy healthy lives. Like the verses about don't eat animals who chew the cud of the field in Leviticus. Maybe we should only eat Kosher pork because of some spiritual woo woo. Or maybe he was saying "he don't eat that shit. Pigs eat anything and they're likely to have worms." What sounds like comandment because it's written in the language of the bible, is probably actually just wisdom of best practice. Now the energy thing. Let's say God is all powerful. No matter how much spiritual energy we give Him, it can't change Him. And I buy that, so I was saying that incorrectly earlier, I believe. So you're right. Still don't wanna give energy to evil spirits. Maybe He can't get any bigger but they can? Again, Im a physical being so who the fuck knows. But also, is it selfish to tell the beings you made to make good choices? i believe something evil is working through the IMF, Davos, world governments. Not metaphorically. Actual evil. And if I'm right, wouldn't it make sense that God, looking out for his creation's best interest, would want to say something like "hey those are evil spirits who will eventually hurt you or others. Don't worship them. They're gonna fuck you over in the end." But again, biblical language. So instead it's "thou shalt have no other gods before me"
The idea that if you can do anything then youâd do what god did and create the universe is a fallacy. It defies logic. A truly perfect entity is perfect in every sense. A perfect being is perfectly content. Perfectly satiated. Perfectly knowledgeable. The reason you would create the universe is because youâre interested in seeing the outcome. But youâre only interested because you have imperfect knowledge. If you had perfect knowledge, creating the universe is a pointless act. God would already know all the outcomes. A perfect entity has no reason to act. This is one of the main premises of Human Action by Mises. Humans are not perfect. We are deficient and vulnerable. We have a sense of uneasiness with life. We feel hunger, pain, fear, boredom, and loneliness. These sensations push us to act. God doesnât experience these sensations. Therefore, a perfect entity would never have a reason to take any action. So it is illogical to say that god would want to create any of this. Itâs pointless. It provides no entertainment because god is already sufficiently entertained. It provides no meaning to his life because he is above meaning. It provides no sense of goodness to himself because he is perfectly good. It makes no sense that heâd do anything. And people contradict this sense of perfection about god when they say things like god doesnât like when people do evil. This implies that god gets upset with human actions. A perfect being can objectively look at things as they are without any negative consequences. So if god is real, Iâd say that it makes more sense that he doesnât do anything. Which is why I donât understand why people would worship. It doesnât do anything for god.
If god wanted to look out for us, he could just get rid of the IMF and WEF or whatever. I certainly think plenty of prayers have already been made regarding that issue. God also looks by without doing anything about people dying and starving all over the world. If god is real, it makes more sense that he wouldnât intervene. He has no motivation or reason to act.
See i disagree with the perfectly satiated part. That seems like youâre assuming the meaning of perfect. Just because you are without fault doesnât mean you donât want things. A person could theoretically live a perfectly moral life, but still wish they could have a boat. I believe by âperfectâ if the Word even says that, and it probably does, it would mean it in the sense that God didnât destroy anything to create, that He doesnât do evil in order to do good, back to the energy thing. It could mean, though lost in the translation of middle eastern jews from thousands of years ago, that God is the only thing that can create without destroying, where we have to chop down trees to build a house. And even if thatâs wrong, one can be satiated but still curious. I can be full on dinner but still be curious what the dessert tastes like. Free will would be the key factor there which would explain why God wanted us to have it. This is a big part of why Bitcoin pushed me to want to know more about God. God wants free will, the devil wants control. Trees look like lungs and trees feed our lungs. Mycelium feed our brain cells and they look like braincells. Itâs the mirror image that seems so recurring in nature that intuitively leads me to believe that there is truth in God. And that doesnât even necessarily demand that I find God through a religion, because belief and religion are also two different subjects. And I kind of get what you mean, that creating everything would be pointless if you know how itâs going to end. Maybe. I know how a rollercoaster feels, but I still wanna ride it. In reality, none of this would be necessary to God. Iâll finish that point in a second though. How do you know what God experiences? You could only read about his experience in flawed books written by flawed men. That doesnât mean you know what it feels like to be able to speak things into existence. I donât think God gets upset, tho I donât know. I think itâs more like âWelp, another one wonât make the cut. Oh well.â I donât think worship is necessarily for God. Even if it does do something for Him, humans still get more out of it than He does. But even without the need to worship, I still find it easier to be appreciative to God than to just feel appreciative. Attitude of grattitude got me out of the darkest moments of my life. Undoubtedly. Then I directed that energy to God because I believe that to receive you must give. Itâs metaphysical to me. I think thatâs the law of attraction, magnetism, however you want to perceive that. So in a sense I guess that is a form of worship. But to your point about âYou donât thank your parents every day for having you.â No I do not, but I am grateful that they did all the time. I just donât bother to text them about it because that takes a lot of time. Thanking God in my heart and mind is literally just a thought. The parallels between God and my parents only go so far because you obviously canât equate humans to God.
About the none of this is necessary, I actually think thereâs something beyond all of this. The Book says God created everything, but Iâm actually inclined to think itâs the other way around. God didnât create nature, nature created God. For one, try to imagine no space, no planets, no stars or gravity or lack thereof. Absolute nothingness. I donât think thatâs possible. I think reality is absolutely inevitable. Nothingness canât exist. Donât ask me why that would be the case but it just sounds right to me. Now quantum physics leads to the fact that entanglement can happen regardless of the space between the entangled particles. Lightyears apart, theoretically at least, what happens to one happens to the other even in wildly different circumstances. They also talk about how information can travel, can be carried by atoms. Seems to me like God would be the conscious part of that equation, that God is the culmination of all molecules and interactions that somehow manifested into a higher consciousness, almost like how transistors and resistors and cables canât do anything apart from one another, but put em all together and suddenly you can get on the internet. I like to the God is the culmination of all reality in one spirit, one metaphysical being or consciousness. Does that mean that Christ wasnât really the son of God? Nope. Still couldâve been the will of God. Does that mean that Allah couldnât have had some legitimate tie to the ultimate? Nope. Iâve met people who have that connection to something higher, who could do things that the physical world canât explain. Doesnât negate that it exists, just that the story about it is flawed, which we have already agreed, it is.
If nature created god, then why isnât nature considered to be god? That would make more sense. I know some people that believe that but religion calls it blasphemy.
God being consciousness is plausible but again, why this specific god from the Bible and not a different god? And why is worship good simply because it derives benefits equivalent to meditation? Other religions have followers that feel good and derive benefits from their forms of worship. Every religious person Iâve ever met swears that worship gives them peace and joy even though they oddly always say that they should do it more but consistently fail to do so. How can worshiping be so beneficial when most people are going to be worshipping the wrong god? Since every religion claims only one religion is correct and that the other gods are false. That means most people are worshipping the wrong god. And if theyâre worshipping the wrong god, but still deriving benefits, then it means that god is arbitrary. It means whoever god is, doesnât actually matter. You can worship god or worship the state or worship celebrities. The act of worship is clearly more important than the entity being worshiped.
In my opinion, for whatever reason, humans evolved to be obedient sheep. They are followers. They find peace and comfort in outsourcing their thinking. This is consistent with what we see from humans at a large scale. They donât verify anything. They believe in things without being able to articulate why. Ask someone why they get vaccinated. Theyâll tell you they believe in science. But thatâs not how science works lmao. Ask someone why they continue to vote. Theyâll tell you itâs because they want to preserve their freedom. More illogical contradictions. The act of voting is a surrender of your freedom. But people feel good after they vote. They feel they are more free because they participated in democracy. But that is proof that just because you feel good, doesnât mean youâve improved your life in any way. Like eating fiat food full of high fructose corn syrup.
But the worst thing about worship is that it rewards inaction. Instead of fighting for freedom, people close their eyes and imagine freedom being handed to them. Instead of ending the fed, they pray for a better economy. Instead of ending wars, they pray for peace. You are dealt a a shitty hand of cards and told to wait for your reward in the after life which no one can prove even exists. Itâs the biggest scam.
Those are my two sats. I think weâve gone around in circles plenty so letâs just agree to disagree here đ¤
Because the last church of nature got the boot from Jackson and put on reserves. And i don't know every verse, but i know Revelation 11:18 says "The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth."
The earth is as much a temple to the bible as your body is. You sound like you blame God and religion for what people do. The fact that Christian morallity and logical mortality are basically the same is one reason, another is the repeating consistencies with history. Another is evidence, including but not limited to the Shroud of Turin.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/2pZJuZe2qJJaqKSufA8EhI
The meditation question, it literally says your body is a temple. Why wouldn't both be a way to tap in? To worship, because most of worship is directed gratitude which feels good no matter where you direct it.
There's lots of wrong things that make you feel good. Heroine feels amazing. Long term? Not so much. Also, again, gratitude which again, gives chemical release.
There's also a distinction you should consider that religion the practice gives meaning and religion the institution is a business so obviously it's going to be corrupted and resistant to change. Every tried to get somebody to use a new kind of money? đ
Good hash, my guy. I hope i made the slightest thing seem more sensible đ¤
I think the best forms of religion encourage the golden rule and seeking divine guidance within oneself. From those two edicts, it is necessary to act where we have control. "Faith without works is dead."
It is true many people use it as an excuse to do nothing, but I don't think that's the core of most quality spiritual practices.
Nice thinky thoughts tho, Hdo, quality pondering. Have some sats đĽ
I am more fond of the silver rule personally. I think the golden rule is retarded lol
What is the silver rule
Don't do to others what you don't want others to do to you. For example, if you don't want to be robbed then don't rob others.
This is more practical than the golden rule. Treating others the way you want to be treated is impractical and most people don't actually follow through. For example, I would like others to give me free money but I don't want to give others free money. The golden rule kind of sucks.
Also, just keep in mind the King James Version of the bible was a rewritten bible to allow King James to not be seen as a heretic by his people when he divorced his wife. I literally find it impossible that that's the only time the Word has been manipulated or changed.
So if there is no way to know for certain that the Bible hasnât been corrupted/altered, how do you confidently know that youâre worshiping the correct religion?
Because I think God is a name for the energy that makes existence exist. It's just wildly misinterpreted because of Paul and Peter and all the other writers of the book who took liberties in doing so. I think Paul for instance was way more of a hardass than the big G God actually is. If your worshipping a six armed dancing indian lady, I have my doubts. If you're listening to your heart, your spirit and reading the signs of your life while you make decisions based on the good of yourself and those around you, you're moving in the right direction. And that comes with a feeling in my experience. I believe that feeling comes from God, along with chemical interactions, such type as the serotonin you get when you do something good for someone. Yes, that's biochemical. But if God made everything, then clearly, He's also a bit of a chemist himself.
I think that goodness you feel is just based on who you are and the social values youâve adopted. These things are based on your genetics and life experiences. It doesnât mean itâs from god. Thereâs a great book called the expectation effect and it proves how much your brain will distort and filter reality to show you the answers you want to see. This explains why everyone believe their religion is right and all others are wrong. It explains why people of all religions have unexplainable experiences with what they claim to be god.
Also this point brings up another important question. Why donât all people have this good feeling when they help others? Psychopaths are incapable of empathizing with others. They feel nothing when they watch others in pain and agony. Why would god create people that way? They are incapable of being good. Theyâve been set up to fail and their destiny is eternal hell. But god made that person that way. Why? Isnât that cruel?
Itâs like breeding an abomination of an animal. Imagine taking the two sickest dogs with the worst genetic defects you can find and mating them together. Then the puppy is born and has no chance at living a normal healthy life so you punish it by killing it. If you called that an experiment, youâd be considered cruel. But if god does it, itâs somehow divine wisdom because my brain is too small to comprehend god?
Well yeah and narcissists, same story. The question is did God create those people or did their circumstances? Iâm given to believe narcissism is an adaptation, the kind youâd develop if you were say one of the guards on the trail of tears. Or in a war, or any of the other zillion fucked up scenarios human beings have been in. Again, I see God as an energy more than a deity. Seems more to me like God created the conditions for humanity, for life to exist and develop and develop it did. It just went in every direction. Jesus has a parable akin to this. He talks about some seed will fall on stone and wither in the sun and blow away. Some will fall on infertile soil and sprout, but soon dry up because it never had roots deep enough to grow fully. Then other seed will fall on fertile soil and multiply hundreds of times over. You might be that seed that falls on stone. Maybe you have nothing but degens and derelicts around you. But in reality you have two feet and a heartbeat. You have the freedom to go where you find good influences. You are capable of making decisions for yourself that your influences wouldnât. You can make decisions guided by your own intent to be better for yourself and others. Will you? Or will you swallow that feeling that the people around you are peices of shit and just do what they do? I think God has compassion for those who recognize that something is wrong and do something about it. For people who give in to lust and greed and adultery and all the things that donât do anything truly good for anyone? Less so. I might go to hell for killing someone who didnât do anything to me besides a slight of disrespect. That would be a huge moral leep for me because I wasnât brought up in a world like that. I would have to make the conscious decision to make that moral leep. For someone whose dad is in the pen for life and all his friends are thugs? Maybe God has more empathy for that person in a similar scenario. Or maybe if you kill somebody, God finds a way to kill you back and you get the extra crispy treatment. I wonât know until I get there. But Iâm willing to bet my soul that the next life exists and that itâs a better chance of it being a good experience if I put effort into being decent while Iâm on this earth.
So god sets some people up for success and others for failure. Is that justice? Is that fair?
Seems like you believe more in god than religion. I have no issues with that. My issue is with religion which is clearly manmade.
Religious Bitcoinerâs đ
I mean if you wanna die to verify, then come back and tweet the deets, you have my full support.
Is that the only way to verify?
#asknostr
If weâre talking about what happens when you die, probably.
You canât extrapolate from other statements of the source, find contradictions and disproof the source based on reason?
Try it out, then bet your soul on it.
Too many contradictions, I donât have to bet a thing.
The bible is fiat đŹ
The idea of a god comes from humans so those same humans have to carry the burden of proof. Religious people like to twist that around and ask you to prove where the world came from. But they can't prove where god came from. And lack of proof for the origin of the universe does not mean I have to believe in your god.
Hahahahahahahahaha
sustainED spirtual value/naturalpATH*****
Prophet Rand is the only one Iâll accept revelations from
#loveIZbase & i luvya nostr:npub1ghcetnluhryhynhuyj8s2pazldjm27wl40nu6dfeskvpv09twcnsneygat t *Y* buttbut i am Just a relay my *B*rO đ
The stories are a roadmap,and the map is not the territory.
That said, some maps get your where you want to go, and others don't.
Ye shall know them by their fruits.
That's why Cosmotheism is different from neatly all other religions. While not rejecting intuition or the race-soul, it embraces science as the best means of ascertaining reality.
Science is a misleading term.
Many experts assert that anthropogenic climate change is settled science. Similar claims are made about the Big Bang and thousands of anthropological ideas. None are factual or even have any merit. Much of whatâs called âscienceâ follows these patterns.
I donât need a narrative or label to find and internalize credible evidence and accept the massive level of existential ambiguity I will always face as a human being.
I'd say that science is a misused term these days. (I don't think the CO2 and vaccine cultists are honest, and honesty is an essential ingredient of science.) But, used honestly and properly, it's not misleading. The scientific method is a well-tested way of gaining a more realistic view of reality. For example, one can make a test to determine whether moving air at a given speed exerts less pressure on a surface than slower-moving or stationary air. A further experiment will show whether or not an object's curved side experiences a greater air speed compared to its flat side when moving through air. Before you know it, you've got a wing that can lift a 20-ton aircraft a mile high. Neither faith nor common sense, good though they may be, gave us that for 50,000 years.
The essential element of science is credible evidence and the ability to verify evidence or consistently repeat outcomes. Thatâs all. And thatâs all that can be counted on.
Well said. Sure science has been somewhat corrupted because the masses are retarded and prone to religiosity with anything. Trust the science is literally not how science works. Everything should be open to scrutiny. Any claim can and should be tested. But people are retarded and want to be sheep. And you canât question religion. Itâs a part of faith. If you question religion, youâre scared into thinking that youâll spend eternity in hell. Just for questioning. In a world full of scammers and grifters, religion teaches you to be blindly obedient. Wild. Religion is legit harmful but people constantly tell me that Iâm mean for not letting people be happy with their delusions. I canât imagine how much better off humanity would be if people started thinking for themselves and developing their own moral compass. Imagine a world where people acted toward solutions instead of praying.
People are absolutely terrified of dying and having no answer to the unknown that lies beyond being alive. So humans have made up many stories with âanswersâ as cope that make them and their kin feel better.
Of course those stories and âanswersâ were all weaponized by the sociopath humans to control populations / tax / wage war / kill / etc.
Just happy Iâve been able to see through all of it. Religion is one of the creepiest mental prisons Iâve ever seen. Antithesis of freedom and critical thought.
Iâm so glad I broke out of it
Respect dood its a very hard one to break out of.
I was raised by atheists but found their position to be as weird and as extreme as religious people.
What is so hard about saying âI donât know.â?
Youâre not wrong
Perhaps god only comes into being toward the end of universes, after life has sufficiently evolved.
âGodâ is absolutely energy.
Can energy create itself?
Wouldnât surprise me if base reality is far stranger than we can possibly imagine and literally incomprehensible to the human mind.
There is so much information we canât perceive. Iâd be amazed if humans could measure even 50% of total information available.
