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Answered earlier bud👇🏻

A godly father exercises headship over what he “owns” in trust from God:

His children belong to him and ultimately to God, so he leads them.

His home is a little kingdom, and he is the appointed king, under the High King.

That’s why a godly man does not apologize for making decisions for his household. That’s his job. That’s what he’ll answer for.

He’s not treating them like property. He’s treating them like his responsibility.

FikaTimeBooks.com 5mo ago 💬 2

Belonging is in the category of family.

Owning is in the category of property.

Conflating these leads to problems in the violations of interpersonal boundaries, that God has endowed to each person, and child.

Men are responsible for leading and stewarding their father relationship to their kids, because they belong to him. But he doesn't own them. And thinking he does own them is a categorical error, not only in how he relates to them but also in terms of implicitly believing he is God.

And that's the arrogance Laser is inadvertently demonstrating. No person gets to decide for another person their life choices, including their career. That is the person's choice alone.

So if a father insists on making that choice for his daughter, he is implicitly communicating, "I know better than you." And, "I don't trust you to make choices for yourself " And is entering into a version of codependence and enmeshment. And that is dishonoring towards her, and by extension, God. Because he's saying he doesn't trust God to be God of his daughter.

Do fathers get to steward their households? Yes.

Do they get to control their children's lives once those children have grown to adulthood and can make their own choices?

No.

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Discussion

Boadee 5mo ago 💬 2

Now accusation of arrogance. This will not end well. Perhaps tend your own garden

FikaTimeBooks.com 5mo ago

In some sense, arrogance is, "I know best. I am better than others."

Lasers assertion that, "My daughters are too valuable for a career," implies that he knows better than his daughters how they should live their lives. While I'm sure he loves his daughters and wants the best for them, it seems, based on his assertion, that he already thinks he knows that that is, rather than helping them to discover their destinies themselves in partnership and intimacy with God.

Perhaps it is an accusation, but for me it's less an accusation than an observation.

"Perhaps tend your garden." I don't mind debating as long as it remains respectful. I don't like when people give me unsolicited advice, because it's a sign of an effort to control.

knightfall21 5mo ago

The deeper issue is that you see women as men with different genitals. But women aren't men. Their brains are wired differently. They are wired to nurture, and make sure people are nice and follow the rules. Men, on the other hand, are wired to be colder logical thinkers, risk takers, and have a better ability to directly give and take critical advice.

This difference makes men temperamentally suited for business and the workplace. It doesn't mean women can't do it, it means men are better at the inner fortitude required for work. (Notice that nowhere did I mention IQ, it's irrelevant).

With that basis, it's clear that women on average are better suited be nurturers at home by default. Existing under the headship of a father or husband becomes the natural place for girls to be.

Contra 5mo ago 💬 2

Ownership in this sense is about covenantal responsibility, not property. And if that offends you, the problem isn’t slavery, it’s that you’ve accepted the state’s definition of personhood, where children “belong to themselves” at 13 and parents are just moral consultants.

nostr:npub1x458tl7h9xcxa66vr4a8pg0h2qz96pnhwnfpcra0le9090uk5t5qw7armt isn’t acting like his daughters are slaves. You’re acting like they’re orphans.

She should make her own life choices.

Yes, and she will. But not while she’s still in her father’s house. And Lord willing, she won’t be entering adulthood as a blank slate with no compass because her father was too cowardly to draw a line in the sand.

A wise daughter may choose her path. But a faithful father clears the weeds and points to the path worth walking. Laser’s not making gods of his daughters. He’s refusing to worship their autonomy.

FikaTimeBooks.com 5mo ago 💬 3

"Ownership in this sense is about covenantal responsibility, not property." I truly wish that was the case, but Laser's initial assertion betrays that value.

"My daughters are too valuable for a career."

The problem isn't so much Laser's opinion or believe. It's that he's already undermining and relating to them through a lens of, "You're incapable of competence." It's incredibly condescending, and it's a lie that's already damaging them.

"a line in the sand." What line? You're not allowed to work? That's not a good idea.

My personal philosophy of parenting seems quite different from yours, or Laser's. Whether it's a son or daughter, it's not fundamentally a father's responsibility to clear the weeds and point to the path worth walking. "Don't be careful. Be competent."

It's fundamentally a father's responsibility, beyond the practicals of food and shelter, to help and inspire their son or daughter to discover their voice and identity as designed by God, to give them a base of security in part by making sure they know they are loved no matter what, to emotionally coach them in how to handle themselves intrapersonally and interpersonally, to teach them what boundaries are and how to assert them, and to give them the tools necessary to make decisions that lead to Heavenly outcomes, personally and generally. Or, in your language, to teach them how to pick the weeds and clear the way, in intimate partnership and relationship with God, because to some degree that's how they learn, how they become competent, and grow in character.

I don't think Laser is making god's of his daughters or of their autonomy. I think he's worshipping his own judgement, probably without asking God what He wants Laser to teach his daughters. I could be wrong, but that's the way it seems to me.

FikaTimeBooks.com 5mo ago

"She should make her own life choices." I agree. But I don't think Laser agrees, unless I'm really misunderstanding him

Contra 5mo ago 💬 1

Appreciate the back and forth. I hear you. I’ve laid out MY case. I think it’s better at this point for nostr:npub1x458tl7h9xcxa66vr4a8pg0h2qz96pnhwnfpcra0le9090uk5t5qw7armt to answer what he means If he’s so inclined. But I believe I understood his whole premise and understanding of where he was going.

FikaTimeBooks.com 5mo ago 💬 1

Based on the feedback I've been getting from him, though I could be wrong, he seems to be doubling down. But I hope I'm wrong.

Laser 5mo ago 💬 1

You wish to send your daughters into the arms of the world to "protect" them from the tyranny of father control.

This is evil. Of Satan. Masked in progressive apologetics.

I wish to send my daughters into their own families to be wives, mothers, and home makers.

You will hesitate to create the environment, culture, and expectations necessary to protect them from the world and provide a life of lasting meaning and dignity.

I will not.

https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMg%3D%3D_ca485a4a-12cb-4b81-be69-188e473cfac5

Ryan 5mo ago 💬 2

This mother raised my wife (little girl in photo), she is the kindest sweetest hardest working woman I have ever met. And her 15 children all rise up and call her blessed. Her youngest daughter is just like her. ❤️