As an observer across decades, it would seem an app on the phone is what brings people local together. I see lots of young men frightened to walk up and chat. How about you? What are you observing?
Discussion
To me hookup culture turned dating into a highly competitive sexual marketplace dominated by top tier men who get to experience the majority of women in their youth. These men have plenty of options and will never settle so women end up sharing them en masse.
Young men disillusioned whose only access to women is sending money to them. A growing resentment of the opposite gender inevitably brewing inside them.
Women approaching the end of their fertility panic settling or completely unable to lock down a suitable partner. A growing resentment of the inadequate men available to them at that point.
When I was a kid everyone knew the man or woman who didnāt marry. Itās becoming commonplace. Most marriages end in divorce because the race never seems to end and the grass seems to be greener.
You arenāt wrong. Fiat mentality made its way everywhere. High time preference run amok.
You donāt need to be top tier anything to participate in hookup culture tho
I remember back when cruising was hookup culture. Again, even then it was material. Leave the Omni at home and jump in a friendās firebird.
Such is life
Interesting perspective, but I think there is a lot of cultural context that can explain some of these trends that arenāt due to what youāre describing - not sure if correlation is causation here. Not to mention divorce rates are at a 50 year low and continue to go down. Statistics would imply marriages are happening less and when they do happen itās with a bit more forethought. Not to mention the role marriage plays in society has changed significantly now that women are actually more able to work and support themselves.
I concede that what I describe is more nuanced than just saying itās due to "hookup culture". It is indeed a result of many factors and every culture is and reacts differently in these regards. The cause may be different but the effects we are seeing today are undoubtedly somewhat related to a new set of dynamics that we may not even have a name for.
I think marriage is simply not serving the newer generations the same way it did to those before it. People donāt need each other anymore the same way they did before.
True. People are becoming far more financially independent. It's no longer the norm for women to stay home and take care of the kids while the man of the house goes to work.
I agree. I think marriage is turning into something that is actually because people want it, and not because itās a need or a requirement for survival. And that changes what an āideal mateā is, in biological terms. It wonāt look like it did when we were kids, because the rights and opportunities of people (women, LGBTQ, etc) donāt look like they did back then (nor 30 years before that). People actually have more freedom to choose (or not choose) marriage, or the relationships they want. Freedom for groups that historically didnāt have those choices is bound to change how people relate to each otherā¦ IMO the pros outweigh any cons or growing pains as we adjust to the new paradigm. I hope as a species we continue to evolve vs trying to hold onto the past where many humans were extremely limited in their opportunities.
When was the last time a man had to get married for survival?
Bingo! Now women have that same choice.
Such an interesting conversation! When I was younger an single and going to university in a big city I definitely fell into the "sexual marketplace" trap as @cameri mentioned above - there was a point I didn't swipe right on anyone who wasn't [insert insanely unrealistic physical requirement here] and my self worth was ~completely~ entangled with the perceived ~caliber~ of man I could get a date with.
I think it's a phase, and while I don't think it's necessarily detrimental to anyone's wellbeing in the long run, I do know for sure that it takes a fair share of deprogramming and personal growth to get out of thinking that way.
Technology (i.e. dating apps) and subsequently culture (specifically hookup culture) is changing so much faster than our psychology evolves to keep up.
I think hookup culture itself is neutral, but the apps definitely encourage unhealthy mindsets. Some people are immune I think, but not me in my 20s, and not the majority of young people. If you think about it, until now, having so many options for dates at your fingertips wasn't "natural". Now it's a part of reality, and we have to learn how to navigate it in a healthy way and think about dating differently. We haven't unlocked it yet!
šAll of this. I never was much for app dating, but I had friends that used it and I can see how the gamification of dating can be psychologically harmful. I do think itās hard to come to a point in our lives (no matter the technology) where we are able to look for value in people that isnāt highly skewed by what society tells us is valuable (appearances being one of the main ones). For me, the journey of unlearning that is as much for loving myself as it is for enabling me to love someone else successfully.
So the assumption you built your whole point on in the previous post is wrong
š¤ No. my point was that at least 50% of the populations rights are substantially different, and heterosexual relationships, which consist of 1/2 womenā¦ are naturally impacted by that. I never said ALL people married for survival in recent history. I said some people do - just a measley 50% of the human species.
Something that impacts āonlyā women (50% of population) impacts 100% of heterosexual relationships. The point is that heterosexual relationships are not the same. The goals and utility of them are different.
Many men previously married to have someone to help them run a house and operate a farm. There was a literal need to have someone in the kitchen to cook otherwise no one was eating.
I feel like, collectively, the male gender still struggles to know how to handle tasks around the home and kitchen (not to say there arenāt men who excel here). And whatās interesting is that being willing to carry their own weight in this area would actually go really far for making them more desirable as a partner. My experience is that theyāre resistant to this because it wasnāt modeled for them in their homes growing up.
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I never understood how it seemed like all apartments belonging to men in their early 20ās shared the same odd stickiness everywhere until I watched my nephew clean things. I have seen strategic incompetence in action and used from a young age. I wonāt be infantilizing men. Iāve known plenty of men capable and willing of being partners in household chores and cooking. Itās the bare fucking minimum. As an adult seeking out the skills you need to improve is just basic life skills.
Do you think women in general find men who do chores around the house, chores traditionally done by women in the past, like washing dishes & clothes, sewing, cooking, sweeping, dusting, an attractive quality in men?
They all say they do, but in reality no they don't.
Itās so hot. Having a capable caring partner so very hot! š„µ
When talking about partnerships, 100%. I canāt speak to those looking for physical connection only. But women are learning new skills to be competitive in the workplace and are interested in partners who are able to be equals and who are also striving to improve and grow. Continuing to do all the tasks that are typically āfemale codedā, while also bringing in incomes equal to or greater than their partners, is a recipe for resentment. From what I know from my experience as a woman, those that Iām close to, and the content Iāve read - equality during the second shift is HIGHLY attractive and desired and largely missing. To me, this is a natural pain point of societal growth and no one expects people to instantly evolveā¦ but some acknowledgment and effort here can go a LONG way.
My dad vacuums! Be with a man who vacuums
I personally enjoy vacuuming... Weād drown in cat hair otterwise. This one has a laser light that shows you the hair and particles on the floor in low light! No idea how we lived before this vacuumā¦
Yes! Even better is acknowledging the reality of how hard this work is and planning to hire a third party if the couple both have busy jobs.
Communication, organization and planning is key in a successful relationship (in addition to soul level sex to bring each partner to their genius level āØ
Working in the fiat grind 40hrs/wk for 40yrs and debasement of currency of 40% since 2020 lockdown? Working together as team is 100% attractive. Bitcoin is freedom from the grind ššš
plus all these kids of boomers saw their parents divorce en masse, and realized that was a bad path function to successful, multigenerational families
,, I donāt see a planet without at least two. originaly Marriage was a Hebrew idea , not really a definition or a piece of paper or a contract with a government/state,, the idea from Hebrew was that a marriage was something that existed between two people who loved each other , and by love I mean , treated each other, cared for, protected, considered for in everything .. the lord blesses a marriage,,,,,it took me a 20 year marriage with a state certificate to finally learn that! #GodIsGood #NeverGiveUp #plebfession
All the types you describe are wasting their sexual energy and I bet havenāt created anything great.
FWIW Iāve only know one person who has panicked settled bc of fertility reasons and it was a guy
All the women I know talk about how the bar is so low for men itās in hell. If a woman says anything dudes just chime in with maybe you should lower your standards. I see so many dudes complaining about dating and being single but never looking in the mirror. Granted women are guilty of that too. Iāve spent significant amounts of time single. It wasnāt like I wouldnāt get offers but they were terrible. When I would try apps at least half or more of the responses were guys telling me I had dudes falling all over themselves for me and they werenāt going to be one of them. I just felt like so many guys were telling themselves the story that they couldnāt get the girl so they ended up doing things to sabotage themselves.
I see what you are saying. Whatās the standard though? If you turn on YouTube to a channel, which I admit is not representative of the entire population, in general what is said is that the standard for women is the Three Six Men which basically eliminates a majority of the male population if you apply it to the most recent US census.
Some doing quick napkin math will realize you canāt match 1 to 1 to say 20% of men to say 80% of women, who are both active in the sexual market, just with the Three Six Men standard.
On the other side, most men have not changed their own standard of wanting a Traditional Woman. These are declining in numbers rapidly too, which further complicates matching and forming couples.
Both men and women are increasingly becoming less attractive to the opposite sex.
Thereās societal consequences for keeping these same old standards and not adjusting to the modern age.
Iāll admit, Iām not familiar with the Three Six Men standard, so maybe Iāll have to educate myself on whatās being said š but I agree that the standards and expectations must evolve. I donāt think the answer is lowering them, but redefining them and listening to each other. Nowā¦ I want to preface that with the idea that Iām not sure matching is the end all be all goal for everyone. I donāt think marriage is virtuous for the sake of marriage, personally. And being single as a choice is perfectly valid, IMO. But of those wanting to be āmatchedā, I think itās important to be willing to understand that people are human and growth/change and grace is part of any human-human relationship. I also donāt think anyone is entitled to a match. And I think that sense entitlement is what breeds resentment and honestly just gets in the way of actual human connection.
I am not familiar with the three six men theory and quickly trying to look it up on YouTube didnāt really yield anything. But Iām not familiar with these mythical ideal men that the majority of women are sharing.
I mean there was this dude in San Francisco back in the day who a lot of women had slept with but they all talked about him like he was a SF newbie mistake. To the point Iād hear women meet a woman who just moved to San Francisco and warning her about this dude felt like part of the welcome packet. Personally Iād hope the average guy was aiming for quality not quantity. Didnāt want to be multiple womenās mistake.
Hehe sorry this is what I meant: 6 feet tall, 6 inch š, 6 figures income. I havenāt read your note yet but wanted to clarify this bit.
Letās be honest there are some women and people in general who have some honestly batshit ideas of whatās necessary in a partner. Iāve had Jabba the hut looking guys who are underemployed, reek of cigarettes, dribbling Mountain Dew down their rolls, probably couldnāt find their dick if their life depended on it, sitting outside a country gas station telling me Iām not pretty enough to date and how itās sad Iām so old in my 30ās and going home alone to my cat. These same dudes think they deserve a Cindy Crawford type.
Yes there is a weird percentage of women surprisingly hung up on the 6 ft height rule. Which Iāve always found odd because Iām 5ā11 and never been hung up on height. While Iāve met 5ā2 women who refuse to match with someone under 6 ft. Does not compute to me.
I do think online dating does lend itself more to āelimi-datingā so you get hung up on things that might not really be an issue just to narrow down to a reasonable sample size. At the end of the day you just have to show up as your best self. Know what youāre looking for and not get too demoralized on the search for it.
Letās be honest there are some women and people in general who have some honestly batshit ideas of whatās necessary in a partner. Iāve had Jabba the hut looking guys who are underemployed, reek of cigarettes, dribbling Mountain Dew down their rolls, probably couldnāt find their dick if their life depended on it, sitting outside a country gas station telling me Iām not pretty enough to date and how itās sad Iām so old in my 30ās and going home alone to my cat. These same dudes think they deserve a Cindy Crawford type.
Yes there is a weird percentage of women surprisingly hung up on the 6 ft height rule. Which Iāve always found odd because Iām 5ā11 and never been hung up on height. While Iāve met 5ā2 women who refuse to match with someone under 6 ft. Does not compute to me.
I do think online dating does lend itself more to āelimi-datingā so you get hung up on things that might not really be an issue just to narrow down to a reasonable sample size. At the end of the day you just have to show up as your best self. Know what youāre looking for and not get too demoralized on the search for it.
Letās be honest there are some women and people in general who have some honestly batshit ideas of whatās necessary in a partner. Iāve had Jabba the hut looking guys who are underemployed, reek of cigarettes, dribbling Mountain Dew down their rolls, probably couldnāt find their dick if their life depended on it, sitting outside a country gas station telling me Iām not pretty enough to date and how itās sad Iām so old in my 30ās and going home alone to my cat. These same dudes think they deserve a Cindy Crawford type.
Yes there is a weird percentage of women surprisingly hung up on the 6 ft height rule. Which Iāve always found odd because Iām 5ā11 and never been hung up on height. While Iāve met 5ā2 women who refuse to match with someone under 6 ft. Does not compute to me.
I do think online dating does lend itself more to āelimi-datingā so you get hung up on things that might not really be an issue just to narrow down to a reasonable sample size. At the end of the day you just have to show up as your best self. Know what youāre looking for and not get too demoralized on the search for it.
Letās be honest there are some women and people in general who have some honestly batshit ideas of whatās necessary in a partner. Iāve had Jabba the hut looking guys who are underemployed, reek of cigarettes, dribbling Mountain Dew down their rolls, probably couldnāt find their dick if their life depended on it, sitting outside a country gas station telling me Iām not pretty enough to date and how itās sad Iām so old in my 30ās and going home alone to my cat. These same dudes think they deserve a Cindy Crawford type.
Yes there is a weird percentage of women surprisingly hung up on the 6 ft height rule. Which Iāve always found odd because Iām 5ā11 and never been hung up on height. While Iāve met 5ā2 women who refuse to match with someone under 6 ft. Does not compute to me.
I do think online dating does lend itself more to āelimi-datingā so you get hung up on things that might not really be an issue just to narrow down to a reasonable sample size. At the end of the day you just have to show up as your best self. Know what youāre looking for and not get too demoralized on the search for it.
Letās be honest there are some women and people in general who have some honestly batshit ideas of whatās necessary in a partner. Iāve had Jabba the hut looking guys who are underemployed, reek of cigarettes, dribbling Mountain Dew down their rolls, probably couldnāt find their dick if their life depended on it, sitting outside a country gas station telling me Iām not pretty enough to date and how itās sad Iām so old in my 30ās and going home alone to my cat. These same dudes think they deserve a Cindy Crawford type.
Yes there is a weird percentage of women surprisingly hung up on the 6 ft height rule. Which Iāve always found odd because Iām 5ā11 and never been hung up on height. While Iāve met 5ā2 women who refuse to match with someone under 6 ft. Does not compute to me.
I do think online dating does lend itself more to āelimi-datingā so you get hung up on things that might not really be an issue just to narrow down to a reasonable sample size. At the end of the day you just have to show up as your best self. Know what youāre looking for and not get too demoralized on the search for it.
Tbhā¦ woman being empowered to have their own careers actually enables men with different qualities to be desirable. I think this will take some time to fully be reflected in societal expectationsā¦ but men donāt have to have their core value be defined by so significantly based on how much they earn. That is something that both partners are able to offer each other in moderation. I think this transition is confusing on both sides - men are trying to be attractive using an out of date playbook and women are having to also deal with the struggles of the gap between what they actually want vs what society says they should want.
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Never let a man steal your youthful years.