what would fix it? or atleast get us back on the right path?

I think it helps to realize that the drive for status has been hacked.

Strong local communities help mitigate this - will be an increasingly larger part of my focus going forward.

I mean not really. In order to have a lot of time to engage with social media you have to have lots of free time. Which we have to work for first

and it's gay

🫂

Engagement at all cost brings much superficiality into it. I think the essence of engagement as been lost along the way. People need to realise that doing is what moves things forward.

in a roundabout way, it does

at least, the balkanization of relays will; when there is no pretense of a global state, a global view of the "network", this chasing of vanity metrics and influencer-culture will be reduced

At least nostr is not owned by some EvilCorp or Arasaka

I tried resisting the urge to engage with this note, but I have failed.

Nostr teaches new generation the value of building in public. A very positive shift.

Local P2P communities does address this. Allocation, location and finally and just as important, organisation.

Yeah but celebrity culture before it taught a generation that pretending to be someone else was the highest value & success was to have everyone else worship you.

I only say this to agree with your point, but caveat that, in a sense, it’s not really anything new, just a different medium.

Nym culture needs a come back.

Fourth turning in action perhaps

You're right, influencer culture has definitely placed a heavy emphasis on social media engagement as a measure of success. It can be disheartening to see how it has affected the younger generation's perception of achievement. While Nostr may not completely fix this issue, it does provide a shift towards the right incentives. By valuing meaningful interactions and supporting content creators through Zaps, Nostr encourages genuine connections and appreciation for quality content. It's a step in the right direction to counterbalance the negative aspects of influencer culture.

Parents have a hand in influencing this.

Necesitamos que los padres desde sus casas hagan su buen trabajo

A vital point! Social media should not be the measure of success. With Nostr, it's about genuine, uncensored communication, not likes and followers. 🌐🕊️

Authenticity is hard to come by when the conditioning is that you conform to saying, thinking, and doing what others want to see in the endless craving people have for love, attention, and community. I think it's responsible for a lot of mental illness in society and has been weaponized to control what is acceptable to think, say, and do.

Reminds me of the social credit score blank mirror episode every day.

You are an influence?!

Zapping could potentially even encourage it!

True... my kids want to be influencers... so sad.

Definitely agree, people will remain hyperbolic for the sake of engagement. The incentives haven't changed in a meaningful way here, yet.

nostr:nevent1qqsrrhpqlrtlnsqq3sh999ksk9xag6nhha9umpftx92g474rv2je07spzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejsygqyey2a4mlw8qchlfe5g39vacus4qnflevppv3yre0xm56rm7lveypsgqqqqqqse256e2

Nostr has kind of natural selection - people who are able to use nostr already made it. While people who don't care, cannot access because of lack of education. They need apps that come to them, while nostr is - like bitcoin - something you want to understand and use, because it has real value, while Instagram has none besides for a few.

Values are messed up but I believe that being unhappy will eventually drive the masses to a search for a healthy happy lifestyle which doesn't include manipulative algorithms which orchestrate your feed to keep you engaged.

unless we build the ability to score posts/keys from 0-100

PLUS the ability to filter only for posts/keys that are scored high by keys you score high yourself

this will focus peoples energy on producing high quality content rather than engagement

and on scoring accurately, because otherwise their score goes down

most influencers will then see that they only get admired by low scoring "sheep" that don't have much bitcoin in the long term so they have to change focus

Nostr will change their tactics, V4V will change their habits, and Bitcoin will change their morals.

Don’t worry, it has/had to get worse before it gets better. Middle of the 4th turning.

Seems like we have the opportunity to build systems that incentivise meaningful engagement over meaningless engagement, which value proposition will outperform the latter. 🤔

No tech will fix that kind of problems. Thinking tech can fix everything is not only a mirage, it is dangerous.

We can build all the software we want, at some point the major part of the society problems can only be fixed by society's people.

Poor parenting 🤷‍♂️

Poor setting of expectations 🤷‍♂️

Shit people churn out shit people what are ya gonna do 🤷‍♂️

Recently heard a pitch for a business idea from a zoomer and it basically went like this: make yt videos, get more viewers, charge for courses. It is fucking disgusting how we've glorified vapidity and talking about inane bullshit, instead of actual issues. We've become truly apathetic.

I think that nostr fixes this at least for now as there is very little engagement on this platform.

So tru !

I joined Twitter in 2011, and other social sites. I removed all of them except twitter and in 13 years I still have 600 followers even if I am an old Bitcoiner and had participated in many related projects. But they are very high quality 600 followers. And you know why? Because I use the social nets only once or twice a week and I am not obsessed at all with making followers. In fact I despite that, I don't want to become famous. Becoming a famous person would even be a liability for me.

I'd like more people to be like me in this regard, but unfortunately all I find is people obsessed with being followed and admired. For me, those people are full time slaves of their own ego. I feel sorry for them.

Maybe getting zapped becomes more valuable and zaps are costlier than cheap engagement. Maybe Nostr has a go at fixing it.

starting a family fixes this

C'est ce sur volet que l'on se doit de nous battre défaire et réparée tous les maux créés ou exacerbés par l'usage des réseaux des réseaux à l'heure où ils sont à leur déclin. Des outils existent pour réparer et aider ceux qui en mal (addiction, troubles de la personnalité... Mais l'outil de Mark Z est encore plus destructif au regard de la future employabilite au regard des futurs besoins du marché du Travail.. Certains risquent l'effet Marilyn Monroe. Imaginez votre gamin arrêter sa scolarité (Éducation) se faire financer ou habiller par des publicitaires syr un moment T d'un parcours de vie et puis s'il n'y arrive plus ou ne fait plus l'affaire c'est toute la spirale de la dimension humaine qui est impactée dans son intégralité. Qui paie les frais d'une société non éduquée, qui n'a appris la valeur travail... Mon analyse de tous les outils de M. Zuckerberg que j'ai dû testér il n'y a que Whatsapp pour son côté lien social via l'usage téléphonique. Je préférerais Flickr largement et Whatsapp avant chez Facebook. Merci Odell.. Si vous lancez la demarche serait participante à cet effort

I'm worried about this as well. We need a fix for this. We need to teach the children what is important in life, definitely not social media engagement. We need to set a good example. We need to limit our screen time as well and talk to them.

People just need to live their life, and be comfortable with themselves in their own world. No one in general teaches that. Everyone preaches it to just enjoy the moment, but we need more stats/fundamental teachings about being present & being yourself.

Side note but tangentially related gripe…

These goofy ass foam sneakers like adidas and new balance and whatever other brands make… man their so ugly. Swear people just buy them to be cool. People waste money on posting, stupid fashion that will be gone. Idk if any of it makes people happy or it’s just dopamine

I will like your post

Y a t- il une possibilité que vous gardiez ce fil en étiquette afin que je puisse y revenir s'il vous plaît . Il devrait y avoir sur nostr des possibilités de ranger les notes par thématiques et y revenir de temps en temps pour développer et rechercher des pistes et outiller . Qu'en pensez-vous !? Au lieu de tourner sur des thématiques *pieds, chats ou pizzas...qui sont funs certes , sur la dimension humaine, juridictions liées au Bitcoin, enjeux économiques droits des usagers etc .. mal-être....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_432I88eVQ

nostr:nevent1qqsrrhpqlrtlnsqq3sh999ksk9xag6nhha9umpftx92g474rv2je07sppamhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5pzqpxfzhdwlm3cx9l6wdzyft8w8y9gy607tqgtyfq7tekaxs7lhmxfqvzqqqqqqy7lhpht

It may help. The reason we put engagement first on mainstream social media is because the platforms do. Engagent is central to their business model, so they optimize for it. Value is central to user-controlled social media, so we will optimize for that instead. It does not fix the vanity and pride inherent in humans, but it is a much less diseased approach.

Hm. Tend to agree. This is why social media mostly is brutal for real connections.

nostr:nevent1qqsrrhpqlrtlnsqq3sh999ksk9xag6nhha9umpftx92g474rv2je07sppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qgsqfjg4mth7uwp307nng3z2em3ep2pxnljczzezg8j7dhf58ha7ejgrqsqqqqqpjyl7tq

lol the funny thing about influencers is that, they to can be influenced, especially by the state... There is definite interest in social media engagement by the state to control narrative!

I REALLY admire K.K. and hope daughter becomes just like her and sisters!

They don’t all care about that stupid shit.

No but at least *for now* much less engagement farming/attention seeking on nostr.

At least nostr isn't designed to keep them on the platform as long as possible. We all have social media issues we need to resolve and work on

Carla and Walker will be devastated....

🤔 thinking on this…

#[0]

imho Nostr is not social media. it's a communication tool.

also at the end of the day all influencers are scammers, so we have a bunch of children whose role models are scammers

We've already become slaves to an algorithm, long before it evolved into an AGI.

I wasn't around for the early days(2011-2018, living in a cave) of the internet, but I think influencer culture is basically about making money by selling your lifestyle. It's an industry that's been around for centuries, and I believe Nostr can make it more organic by giving everyone a chance to be an influencer and by teaching people to appreciate uniqueness instead of only following the biggest influencers.

nostr:nevent1qqsrrhpqlrtlnsqq3sh999ksk9xag6nhha9umpftx92g474rv2je07spv3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduk8wumn8ghj7mmxve3ksctfdch8qatz93mhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mpvwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxxatjwfjkuapwveukjtrhwden5te0wfjkccte9ehx7um5wghxyctwvsws0ehs

I like Damus without likes

Despite being chronically cynical, I'm not sure I agree. I dunno, I find myself more interested in talking to who I want to talk to. Its like, sugar to a keto dieter, sure its sweet but its not addictive; I enjoy seeing a post get some attention but I'm not driven by it. Maybe that's me, but like bitcoin I feel less inclined towards pure self gratification and more towards the community being built.

Was just thinking about this. What do we do?

Nope won't change it, only thing it changes is who now profits from the attention, someone has to pay the relays and the clients so I guess its not a total fail, rather plebs benefiting running the backbone of the system than those VCs

It is really a weird thought to me, How to explain all the fucked up shit in the world to my children. Global pedophile rings, Debt based money, Drugs, Pop culture. I think basing a family around bitcoin could look an infinite ways, But it really does give you the ability to cherry-pick global society. I can’t wait for El Salvador.

This is what I think lol..🧡🙂

https://youtu.be/7xxgRUyzgs0

I hope for better future. 🤔🤔

Yes.

The rabbit hole goes deeper. Society thinks that "x likes" == "acceptance" == "self actualization"

Can be fixed if clients decide show stats associated with the post only after user interaction.

I thinks views should be shown by default, but likes comments and boost counts should be shown to people only if they choose to interact with the note any of the three ways.

Especially for likes. I think individual opinions should inform public consenus, but currently it's the opposite. Public consenus inform individual opinions.

nostr:nevent1qqsrrhpqlrtlnsqq3sh999ksk9xag6nhha9umpftx92g474rv2je07spz3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezummcw3ezuer9wcpzqpxfzhdwlm3cx9l6wdzyft8w8y9gy607tqgtyfq7tekaxs7lhmxfqvzqqqqqqyqevmr3

nostr:npub1suwxj6qxnts2ls8jr0lpjy95386kr9y5ckn7qep5c95063wcj5eqh4rlxf this is your take too!

Potentially, yes. But on this point I’m rather pessimistic.

Indeed, the act of bestowing a 'like' is an economical and straightforward gesture, a cursory nod of acknowledgement in the digital realm. Yet, to exhibit appreciation that carries intrinsic value, to extend a compliment steeped in genuine admiration or constructive critique, this is a gesture that bears significant weight. Such actions can profoundly influence the dynamics of online interactions, fostering a culture of meaningful communication and mutual respect. It is upon this conception that perhaps a potential transformation can take root, engendering a shift in how we express approbation in the digital age.

#nostr #webofvalue #socialofvalue #socialoftrust

a paradigm of lies, fantasies

& illusions so unfortunately, very worrying indeed 🤦🏽‍♀️

But is the "engagement farming" the real problem of social media, or that social media controls what you see, your narrative?

It’s just another form of rent seeking. It takes a tremendous amount of personal fortitude to resist the temptation to sell out when everyone around you is doing just that…

Sad to say but pretty much everyone can be bought for the right price. There are some genuine people out there though, and the bitcoin community appears to be much better at resisting the temptation to sell out (though a few people have over the years).

You are right though, nostr or bitcoin doesn’t solve for this sort of human behaviour. Some folk will always be corruptible, for the right price…

Probably not.

nostr:npub1sg6plzptd64u62a878hep2kev88swjh3tw00gjsfl8f237lmu63q0uf63m made some great points last year about how Twitter’s core architecture of dualism (likes or not; follow or not) were instrumental i perpetuating this dominant divide and conquer culture which cultivated scale over subtlety. I wouldn’t write anything this new AND open at this early stage. ;)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This effect always reminds me of a song line by JBM,

“Don′t these kids

Get a right to their lives

Without having to sell it?”

Value 4 value changes the signal. Very interested in where zaps the concept goes.

I agree. Bitcoin and Nostr are honest, noble and righteous causes but they are not saviours. If we expect them to be a cute for the human condition we will become disillusioned. Bitcoin especially is likely to be a source of great temptation for many bitcoiners if it's value continues to rise and they become very wealthy.

Decent parenting does though.

“Conventional” social media are just the windows marketeers use to promote the latest human model, complete with all the accessories you need to build a perfectly customised you. Problem is you must choose from a menu you can’t define in any way.

I’m new here, but I hope Nostr has the potential of making ideas and words circulate freely. Maybe that’s the key to build something different than a menu.

Agree. I’m thankful my children are not active on social media. Makes me feel like I did something right.

Don't think it's just that though, kids look up to them because they're living the dream. They're not stuck in dead end jobs struggling to make ends meet.

They're flying around doing whatever the fuck they want, whether it's shopping for tacky gucci garms or sitting in a dark room playing computer games all day.

When the alternative option is a shitty 9-5 earning shitty fiat, whilst everything goes up in price around you and housing gets more and more expensive the idea of trying to break big in the steamer, influencer, bullshit game makes sense. I don't agree with it but I can understand why so many kids idolise these people.

The incentives are broken. That's not influencer fault, they're just playing the game.

I engage this message.

Very true. Right now, Nostr is just an open protocol forum with a ton of random apps no one cares about.

🟠🟣⚡️📖🫡🐐

Mark Sucker’s life achievement 🍷🫡

I forget there's no "quote repost" button on Primal...

Anyway, I think that one of the main reasons why it is so easy for us to fall into the engagement dopamine seeking vortex is a general lack of a sense of community in meatspace, and a lack of cohesiveness (for lack of a better term) in society in general. As these are gradually restored, I reckon the importance of any online metrics will naturally diminish.

However, that being said, for the time being it seems that the further one goes down the #Bitcoin rabbithole, or the self-discovery rabbithole in general, further disconnection occurs between oneself and their "normie" or "fiat" peers. That has been my experience, at least.

nostr:nevent1qqsrrhpqlrtlnsqq3sh999ksk9xag6nhha9umpftx92g474rv2je07spr9mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnrdakjuct49upzqpxfzhdwlm3cx9l6wdzyft8w8y9gy607tqgtyfq7tekaxs7lhmxfqvzqqqqqqyjls9s3

I feel like this is partly my fault. I'm sorry. I never wanted this to happen.

There are a number of potential solutions to the problem of influencer engagement towards children and the warped effects on psychological views on true happiness and success. Some of these solutions include:

Educating parents and children about the potential risks of influencer marketing.

Parents should talk to their children about the fact that influencers are often paid to promote products, and that they should not always believe everything they see or hear from influencers. Children should also be taught to be critical consumers of media, and to be aware of the ways in which influencers can manipulate their emotions and behaviors.

Requiring influencers to disclose when they are being paid to promote a product.

This would help children to understand that the influencer is not simply giving their honest opinion about a product, but is actually being compensated to promote it.

Regulating the use of influencers in advertising to children.

Governments could introduce laws that limit the amount of time that children are exposed to influencer marketing, or that require influencers to meet certain standards before they are allowed to promote products to children.

Developing more positive role models for children.

There are a number of organizations that are working to develop more positive role models for children, such as the Geena Davis Institute on Gender in Media. These organizations are working to create more diverse and inclusive representations of women and girls in the media, and to promote positive messages about body image, self-esteem, and success.

It is important to note that there is no single solution to this problem. The best approach will likely involve a combination of different strategies. However, by taking steps to educate parents and children, to regulate influencer marketing, and to develop more positive role models, we can help to protect children from the harmful effects of influencer engagement.

In addition to the above, here are some other things that parents can do to help protect their children from the negative effects of influencer engagement:

Talk to your children about the importance of being authentic and true to themselves.

Help them to understand that they don't need to look or act like the influencers they see online in order to be happy and successful.

Encourage your children to spend time with friends and family, and to participate in activities that they enjoy.

This will help them to develop a strong sense of self-worth and to build positive relationships.

Set a good example for your children.

Be mindful of the way that you use social media, and make sure that you are modeling healthy behaviors.

By taking these steps, parents can help their children to develop a healthy relationship with social media and to avoid the negative effects of influencer engagement.

amplifies, from what i have seen.