Nostr Web Client

i mean we all agree twitter is broken right? not functionally, but incentives are broken. and I can't say i trust the people that built those broken incentives.

obviously I am generalizing and there are exceptions. but would trust someone who quit more than someone elon fired.

signal_and_rage 2y ago

so if they weren’t principled enough to leave their job because of financial obligations they have been compromised?

maybe those people would be happy to work on nostr clients and be thankful that they don’t have to choose between a paycheck and a mission

monlovesmango 2y ago

as someone who has had to choose between paycheck and mission I might be super cynical at this point. my views are what they are.

just to be clear, i don't think ex twitter employees are bad people or 'compromised'. but they def put stability over values. as did I at one point.

signal_and_rage 2y ago

principles are expensive

lots of gray areas in life

but for those that got let go from Twitter, the ones that supported more voices being heard and were against the censorship and government influence that was taking place, we should be reaching out to them to come work on nostr, existing clients, micro apps, and bounties.

monlovesmango 2y ago

i agree with you here. I just don't think the majority of fired twitter employees are in this camp. if they were the majority twitter wouldn't be where it is today.

I also think anyone that has shown this propensity should be recruited. not just fired twitter employees.

nerd2ninja; ©️📺 2y ago

I think it would be better to focus on translation rather than filtering when it comes to language

monlovesmango 2y ago

what if people who speak a language other than english don't want garbage translations dominating their feed?

I think only english speakers would prefer what you are suggesting.

jo 🇺🇸 2y ago

*los

**Estados Unidos

***!! (Do not have that keyboard)

Americanos necesitan practicar su Español...está terrible!

Actualmente, las personas en Estados Unidos necesitan practicar, en general.

monlovesmango 2y ago

de acuerdo. mi espanol esta terrible 😂😭

nerd2ninja; ©️📺 2y ago

Well first of all, you only get translated notes if you connect to a translated relay

Second, relays that reject other languages are possible

Third, "Only English speakers would prefer what you are suggesting" is very ironic. I'm much more used to Americans complaining about Spanish.

monlovesmango 2y ago

first, relays wouldn't do translation clients would

second, yes and the language query parameter would help with that

third, I agree americans complain about spanish which is why they would prefer to just have it translated for them. but don't totally understand your point here

nerd2ninja; ©️📺 2y ago

That clients would translate rather than relays is not a technical limitation and is rather entirely your assertion. I don't recommend it because memorization really does help with performance.

And my point on the third was that your assertion that only English speakers would prefer translated notes rather than language filtered notes was merely that it seemed to me to be a strange assertion to make.

nerd2ninja; ©️📺 2y ago

That clients would translate rather than relays is not a technical limitation and is rather entirely your assertion. I don't recommend it because memorization really does help with performance.

And my point on the third was that your assertion that only English speakers would prefer translated notes rather than language filtered notes was merely that it seemed to me to be a strange assertion to make.

monlovesmango 2y ago

its less an assertion about english speakers and more an assertion about people who speak a dominant language.

if you speak a dominant language (and have a mono lingual culture) you are likely more ok with not being able to filter by language (and solely rely on translation)

nerd2ninja; ©️📺 2y ago

Why? Your observation is not something I've seen. I've rather seen a dominant language get angry and yell at other language speakers to learn the dominant language and shoo away translation efforts.

monlovesmango 2y ago

sure this is definitely a thing, I agree. but not what i'm talking about.

rn on nostr most conversation is in english. who do you think would prioritize language query filters more, those speaking english or those speaking something else?

Erick 2y ago

I’ve been playing around with creating a nostr client focus on Latin American users and would welcome the language filter. Any way to increase the signal to noise ratio for users is a welcomed improvements in my eyes. 🤙

nerd2ninja; ©️📺 2y ago

You really don't have to do this at the client level. I mean sure, a client with relay defaults that reject other languages or something, but you don't have to use the users processing power and battery life to do sorting.

In any case at least we all agree on a language parameter for both of our use cases and the protocol level is all we really have to agree on.

monlovesmango 2y ago

having a languages query parameter would mean clients can query for only one language of notes and don't need any processing power for sorting notes by language....

yes at least it seems like we all agree on that point which is promising!

Le Chiffre 2y ago

LOVE this tag.l and potential to use it as query param. I’d like to browse English, German, and Spanish nostr separately as I am less than fluent and have a hard time switching back and forth rapidly.

nerd2ninja; ©️📺 2y ago

You still have to do

if lang == english

return note

else

#implicitely drop the note

But I guess the argument is supposed to be that this check for every single note relayed to the user isn't significant enough to have noticeable performance issues for the user....

monlovesmango 2y ago

no the argument is that every note relayed to the user would already have lang === english. bc the client uses '["#l","en"]' query filter which means relays only send back posts with language tag of english.

monlovesmango 2y ago

ugh filter would actually be '{"#l":["en"]}' or something

nerd2ninja; ©️📺 2y ago

You're still performing a check.

monlovesmango 2y ago

yes but its less checks bc client receives less notes

nerd2ninja; ©️📺 2y ago

Oh so we're still talking about relay filtering then and not actually client side filtering. Yeah alright memorization can help there then.

monlovesmango 2y ago

i'm talking about the same query filters that search for hashtag or event thread. relays would still hold all languages (unless they want to be a specialized relay). standard query filters from clients would query the posts the user wants.

I think it makes the most economic sense for there to be specialized relays specifically language specific relays, but there's nothing keeping both from existing (except that maybe nonspecialized relays might go broke or switch to being paid services but I think we're moving towards paid relays or friend hosted relays either way)

monlovesmango 2y ago

yes, hard to know what the future relay landscape will look like. I do agree that languages specific relays will be a thing. I also agree that people would likely want translation relays and such.

all i'm saying is language query filter is first step and good short term solution to jump start language specific feeds.

monlovesmango 2y ago

yeah i think it would be nice for users to have specific language feeds as well. or if multi lingual, have the ability to push one language to one relay for broadcasting, and another language to another relay

fiatjaf 2y ago

When you go to the internet to find things, do you really search for "italian things" or for the things that interest you?

fiatjaf 2y ago

I think this (mine) was a bad argument, but I have a better one now: why hasn't this language stuff ever been a problem on Twitter?

partof 2y ago

in twitter there is a tweet translation option which can be very helpful (it uses google services though)

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OLD Jack Chakany npub1chakany8dcz93clv4xgcudcvhnfhdyqutprq2yh72daydevv8zasmuhf02 2y ago

It also has options for you preferred language, with the option to add multiple languages

fiatjaf 2y ago

What do these do?

partof 2y ago

monlovesmango 2y ago

I guess I assumed twitter has a lot of fancy algorithms for their curated content

daniele 2y ago

Contents powered by algorithms + click to translate?

fiatjaf 2y ago

Contents are not powered by algorithms. They literally show stuff from people you follow. My timeline has most posts in English about Bitcoin, some posts in Portuguese from Brazilians, and sometimes Turkish, Italian and Russian from Bitcoin people that decided to interact with their fellow countrymen. I just skip these weird languages. Twitter does nothing to prevent me from seeing them.

monlovesmango 2y ago

it doesn't prevent it from your follows. it does prevent it from the twitter general content it seems. like if you sign up for new account and have no follows you will only see your own language.

monlovesmango 2y ago

I guess i think its higher signal if you can filter which language you see from your follows (especially if you normally skip those weird languages)

daniele 2y ago

No usually. But if I enter a "space" with a lot of content I would like the option to filter by the languages I understand or because a specific lang is related to some contents/culture I'm interested in.

Metadata can be useful.

monlovesmango 2y ago

you've never used the google search feature that allows filtering by language?

fiatjaf 2y ago

No, I didn't know that existed, but I barely use Google these days. When I search in English I get results in English, when I search in Portuguese I get results in Portuguese.

7d

7d67ce29... 2y ago

#[0]

sandwich 2y ago

Why not use language detection? TextBlob and Polyglot come to mind.

https://textblob.readthedocs.io/en/dev/api_reference.html#textblob.blob.BaseBlob.detect_language

https://polyglot.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Installation.html

sandwich 2y ago

js: https://www.npmjs.com/package/languagedetect

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