Are Saylor, Larry, Brian & Trump hijacking Bitcoin to back the dollar.
Will we end up forking Bitcoin to keep it self custodial and become the next Bitcoin Cash?
Discussion
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Wait, what? I'm not backing any dollars with my Bitcoin.
I think this is the fight
But how to fight this fight?
I think Tether over Bitcoin is potentially a battle we were unaware of and have therefore lost 😂
Just like Ordinals (probably how Tether works). The influencers, like #NatalieBrunell and #PeterMcCormack, believed what they were told, much of which was true in the beginning (p2p, decentralized, change the world, etc), and did a great job of spreading that info and teaching us all about the virtues of Bitcoin. Unfortunately, in the Bitcoin Only world, people are blind to all of the amazing other projects that are out there, whether they are money related or technology related.
I mention Ordinals, because 1. It was not (publicly) anticipated. 2. A miner deliberately put it in a block (is thisdecentralization?). This indicates to me that Bitcoin is not really functioning as a currency, but as a toy. It's extremely strange to me that Bitcoin (Coke) is doing it's best to be more like Ethereum (Pepsi).
Whats wrong with bitcoin cash? Isn't that the hard fork already?
BCH is a metaphor.
Ussle Craig's coin
Read the Bitcoin whitepaper and Satoshi's emails & blogposts.
Things never mentioned:
SegWit, Lightning, TapRoot.
Things that were mentioned:
Simplified Payment Verification (SPV).
Nodes run by large entities, like businesses & colleges.
Bigger blocks to scale.
BCH works.
Bitcoiners prefer UASF because they believe they have a vote. Yet, none of them remember 'voting' for lightning, ordinals or Tether. They only know how to continue to upgrade their nodes (oh yeah, very few run nodes) and accept the updates as if they were delivered by God, and not a handful of developers working for people who are heavily influenced by money from Blockstream, Blackrock, Tether, and very likely with strong influence from the CIA.
They believe liightning is amazing (again, maybe 2% run nodes), but that it's entire structure, with coming regulations, entirely mirrors the current banking system. Wow! What a win for being bankless!
From a principled standpoint, it's laughable, but humans are humans and human nature has a tendency to follow blindly.
If they take BTC out of circulation to use solely as bank collateral to back dollars, I'm not sure those of us with self custodied coins need to care, any more than we particularly care about coins locked up in wallets that ended up orphaned because they weren't properly backed up. Worst case scenario, their increased demand and the diminished supply may mean BTC's price gets high enough we have to seriously consider whether the satoshi really is the smallest unit of Bitcoin. The most insane valuation projection I've seen was $1 Billion USD BTC before 2040; at that price we'd really probably want to consider sub-satoshi units in order to facilitate microtransactions that really aren't even so micro anymore. Assuming of course that billion dollar valuation isn't simply because a cart of groceries costs $10,000...
That's how I see it anyway; is there an angle you see I'm missing?
As for price:
The entire wealth of the planet is currently $454T
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/global-wealth-distribution/
At $20M per BTC, 21M BTC would more or less equal that.
What you decide could be a possible value of Bitcoin in the future should bear some resemblance to reality.
As for it being used to back USD and becoming primarily an asset. That is definitely the trend, but not a good one. I see BTC being adopted globally as an asset as winning 50% of the battle. The other 50% is for it to be used as a currency.
If this fails, then we get government regulated currency imposed on us for the rest of our lives.
I want freedom money as well as freedom assets.
I want us to control the flow of currency, not government.
We have pretty much won the asset battle, we now fight the currency battle.
It is very possible for us to loose this battle.
Sober take. Good shit.
#Monero for the win
I love your reasoning, and I almost always agree with your statements and analysis.
That said, today I'm feeling pretty pessimistic about Bitcoin as a tool for freedom.
It appears to be in the process of being captured by the powers that be, as it seems to be mainly a collateral asset for debt, fiat currencies, and shitcoins.
Centralization, regulation, and intermediation follow. AML, KYC, and compulsory custodial services are already in full swing. After 16 years of circulation, almost nobody accepts #Bitcoin as a payment method.
I mean, it would still be a great financial investment—probably the greatest—for a while.
But in the very long run, will it still be a sound store of value without being, at least potentially, a widespread means of exchange?
I'm not very confident about the trajectory we are heading toward, or maybe today is just a bad day I went through.
I understand, we are definitely now fighting the battle of Bitcoin as a currency.
It's not an easy one and nothing is guaranteed and you definitely shouldn't be complacent about it, but remember, we have now effectively won one of the two battles in the war, that of Bitcoin the asset.
If wars were easy, then victories would be hollow.
All things worth fighting for are hard, embrace the fight and most importantly realise you're not fighting alone, we are all in this together, across the globe.
I can't guarantee victory, but I can guarantee a good fight.
Or just use #Monero #xmr, or #litecoin (84 million) or #bch / Bitcoin Cash all 3 are far superior to Bitcoin Core's kooky ass, roundabout methods of attempting to be a daily currency, or even decentralized.
https://www.audible.com/pd/Hijacking-Bitcoin-Audiobook/B0D1M2N1ZN?origin=serp_auto
#ltc #hijackingbitcoin
Lol.
After today's bitcoin news stories, are you still laughing.
Bitcoin has been overtaken by the US Dollar via USDT and El Salvador gave up on BTC as a legal tender because the IMF told then to. So much for financial independence and "be your own bank"
Bitcoin was hijacked long time ago not now 👀
The move is just unfolding now clearly as water 👀
Bitcoin Cash was the fork made when Bitcoin was hijacked 👀
I am going to go against my better judgement and attempt to engage with you in what I hope will be a fruitful discussion.
I've already written an article about Bitcoin Cash, it is here:
https://habla.news/u/mhardcastle@nostrplebs.com/1733908437101
The part that discusses BCH starts at this paragraph:
"Roger’s case is also being used as a weapon of fear."
If you believe my analysis is wrong, I would be open to a genuine debate. If you want to sling slogans and meaningless rhetoric, I will not respond.
I suggest you spend time formulating a reply if you wish to win the intellectual argument.
My personality type is INTP, which means I do not have a hubris and do not hold onto bad ideas if there is a defined better option. You have a chance to change my mind.
I have read Rogers' book "Hijacking Bitcoin", he suffers from anger issues, which means it is nearly impossible to dissect valid argument from uncontrollable hatred.
Let me start by agreeing that Bitcoin base layer is unusable as a day to day currency and that L2 Lightning is a shit show.
However, centralisation of any form allows government or corporate control of any threat to fiat.
I also agree that Bitcoin mining is dangerously centralised due to the dominance of Bitmain and the 2 largest mining pools.
All that said, I still choose Bitcoin over Bitcoin cash as it is mostly decentralised, whereas BCH is mostly centralised.
Take as long as you like to respond. I will wait.
Second most common Bitcoiner.
I’m the most common - INTJ
We’re what people think of when they accuse Maxis of shit. That’s us. Shitting in people’s cornflakes because we can. 
I’ve told you already, I’m taking flowers to my grandads grave tomorrow, not brown cornflakes 😂
Oh look, reading this:
https://www.16personalities.com/intj-personality
It says this:
INTJs aren’t known for being warm and fuzzy. 😂
I like being warm and fuzzy
I’m warm and fuzzy!
When my brain isn’t engaged. When it is, I’m not..
INTP won’t shit in the cornflakes. The P is for prevention.
The J though, INTJ, WE WILL SHIT IN CORNFLAKES.
We don’t care, that’s where we differ.
It’s the difference between a medicated autist (or equivalent) and an autist who just doesn’t GAF and will take the shit not for fun, but because the Judging element has overridden the brain and determined it’s right overall.
That’s Bitcoin Maximalism. A third of us will shit in the cornflakes because Fuck You, that’s why.
I don't think I like cornflakes anymore.
Is muesli still a thing? 😂
Yeah I’m happy to shit in muesli or cornflakes or weetbix or on toast or pancakes.
Rack em up. If it means making normies uncomfortable, I’m there as is the INTJ army.
I’m going on a diet 😂
I reckon that’s the difference between P and J.
You don’t have the stomach to do what we would do.
Would you #BBTG? 
On a serious note, I always shy away from a fight, but if a fight is forced upon me, I will do anything and everything to win and will put everything into it. Once engaged, I can’t back down and I can never loose.
At an event a few years ago, I met a girl I went to school with, I thought she was too cool to hang around with, but she told me she was too scared of me and avoided me.
I always thought I was a cute puppy, but I’ve since been told by many F&F that I can be very fearsome if engaged.
Js pick fights.
If you’re wrong you need to know - that’s how our brains work.
I got muted by hodlbod today because I resisted his “DeepSeek doesnt answer Tiananmen Square” horseshit.
He’s a P, not a J. Someone judging him is too uncomfortable for him, he wanted to make that observation unopposed but my mind saw it and it was like a red rag to a bull - fuck him, he needs to eat shit for his nonsense and I don’t care the consequences to me, I want to impose reality on him.
INTJs are the Maxis because they don’t care about consequences. They’ll shit in any bowl if they think it the right thing to do, even if that bowl is headed to a grave this afternoon.
INTJs are the best and worst thing to ever happen to Bitcoin. It’s catnip for us, and we become cunts once we go down the rabbithole.
To add nuance, I will initiate a fight if I see corruption or immoral actions.
Also, I tend to be more thoughtful and logical, I agree with your analysis, but I struggle to filter out the emotional and antagonistic tones.
This was the problem I had reading Roger’s book “Hijacking Bitcoin”, he was so full of anger, it hid his arguments, some of which are valid.
>”To add nuance, I will initiate a fight if I see corruption or immoral actions.”
That’s just another red rag to a bull for the Judgemental side. Corruption or immoral actions will be smashed.
Js don’t care about emotional and antagonistic tones; they’ll just attack them. That shit doesnt work on them.
I’m not saying we’re right, we likely aren’t as much as we think we are. I’m just describing the nuance you’re pointing to in real terms from the J side to a P.
Adding my own nuance I guess.
Interesting, thanks.
You've probably explained a lot about the types of fights I've engaged in over the years and the personality traits of the individual with whom I've fought.
It sounds like Roger Ver may well be an INTJ 😂
Yes when you frame J vs P like this a lot more Bitcoin arguments make sense.
The important thing to note is the Js are the ones dragging the Overton window. They are impossible to outnegotiate. They are the real autists. They don’t care what the Ps think, they’ll beat them over the head until they agree or subvert them.
Bitcoin will either fail or meet INTJ standards - the middle ground is unacceptable to Js and at 1/3 they are the minority to reckon with.
Just to add some nuance to your nuance.
I’m guessing the major fights in my life have been fought with INTJ’s primarily because they thought I was soft and they believed they couldn’t loose (as you suggest).
Be careful of making assumptions, those opponents were in error.
Hubris is a weakness, mine is huge, but I am self aware and mostly able to control it.
Also, I'm a passenger now with Bitcoin, but LCDs, the Internet and LoRa are all Overton windows I have moved in my time.
That’s a lot of nuance Mike!
It’s not that INTJs didn’t think they could lose. It’s that when they pick a hill to die on you’re gonna have to go through them and kill them all (metaphorically speaking) or you’ll end up at their position in the end. I don’t know how to describe that phenomenon, but it’s true.
This is where most opponents go wrong. When they plant a flag it’s not their first point of retreat. That’s not how INTJs work - where they plant the flag may seem arbitrary to you but it’s real to them - that’s the line and it’s life or death at the line.
Hubris is not a good accusation against them.
Js are rightly or wrongly, principled AF. They’re not acting from hubris, they can justify their position.
Like me with Hodlbod - he muted me but I had a whole chain of logic behind my comments; he was too weak to hear it. I could be wrong, we’ll never know, but I’m not just gonna let some fucktard cry bald eagle as if that’s a winning move whilst I repost and laugh at him.
Interesting, it is definitely my personal sense of morality that doesn’t allow me to back down.
Perhaps I have a little bit of J in me 😂
INTJ here too.
We’re gonna inherit the earth bro 🫡
It just won’t be us, it will be our offspring or their offspring; we’re too intense to be in charge of normies
Great article and points Mike!
Satoshi Nakamoto’s early communications, including emails and forum posts, clearly articulated a vision for Bitcoin as a decentralized, P2P electronic cash system. Central to this vision were principles of user sovereignty, privacy, and resistance to censorship. However, as Bitcoin has evolved, and it has strayed significantly from these foundational ideals.
One of the most pressing issues is the centralization of mining power, which undermines Bitcoin's original intent. A handful of mining pools now control a substantial portion of the network's hash rate, raising concerns about the potential for censorship and manipulation and all if them are at the mercy of benevolent regulation.
This centralization not only threatens the security of the network but also compromises its ability to function as a truly censorship resistant currency. If a small number of entities can dictate which transactions are processed, the essence of what Satoshi envisioned a decentralized and open financial system becomes increasingly tenuous.
In Satoshi's early discussions, there was a clear intent to address scalability challenges, including the potential to increase the block size to accommodate more transactions on the base layer. Satoshi recognized that as Bitcoin gained popularity, the network would need to handle a growing volume of transactions without sacrificing its core principles. In emails and forum posts, Satoshi expressed a willingness to explore solutions that would allow for greater transaction throughput while maintaining decentralization.
One notable initiative that emerged during this period was P2Pool, a decentralized mining pool designed to allow miners to work together without relying on centralized entities. P2Pool aimed to enhance decentralization by enabling miners to contribute their hashing power while maintaining control over their individual contributions. However, despite its innovative approach, P2Pool development was largely abandoned around 12 years ago. The decision to set it aside by core developers and the broader community reflects a shift in focus toward other solutions, like lighting that instead bringing decentralization does the opposite.
The abandonment of P2Pool underscores a broader challenge within the Bitcoin ecosystem, the struggle to balance innovation with the community's evolving priorities. While alternative solutions have emerged, the centralization of mining power remains a critical issue that continues to threaten the foundational principles of Bitcoin.
It is essential to reflect on Satoshi's foundational principles and the lessons learned from initiatives like P2Pool. The centralization of mining power and the ongoing debates about scalability underscore the need for a renewed commitment to user sovereignty and decentralization.
All that i mention before has solution, but who knows why core devs and big names in the community are agaisnt this improvements and are in favor of centralized solutions like Lightning and eCash.
That's why in my vision i think bitcoin was hijacked.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this perspective.
I pretty much entirely agree with your points, in fact you are putting flesh to the points I had already conceded.
May I also suggest that you’ve used AI to generate your answer, AI is still early and the style of answer reflects an AI engine.
Your agreed points make no arguments beyond the ones I’ve given and no arguments supporting the “hijacking” of Bitcoin and no arguments in support of BCH.
Are you happy that we have consensus?
No i don't use AI to generate my response, i use it to translate from my native language so it be easier to me to make my points understandble, but as you wanna go by that side, it's the end of conversation to me.
Understood.
Thank you for interacting.
Have a nice day.
This is my favorite thread o day…so far🤔🌅🫡
I usually prefer the humorous posts of my retarded digital frenz (they know who they are ⭕️…I’m afraid to name them and leave the prez ( nostr:npub1v7k63c6y2vktlqhsuupywt3yc7ykursujc34at964f9cv9s9y9csjutfk0 ) out again…it rankles his little legal feathers🤔😂)…
This thread has made great points on both sides of this argument …I now feel more confused but less stupid🫡🌅
Bitcoin is fucked. I'm out.
What a compelling argument, you’ve convinced me, I’m out too 😂
I don't like your face. I don't care what you do.
I know, it’s dreadful isn’t isn’t it 😂
At least I don’t have to look at it, I feel sorry for my F&F tho, they have to put up with this curmudgeonly view whenever they are talking to me.
Have a nice day pal 🫂
I just went to see BCash mining stats. Looks like ViaBTC and Sbicrypto concentrate together the same % as Foundry and AntPool in BTC “core”.
Yes, hashrate concentration may be a big problem but BCash didn’t made any change on that specific problem.
miningpoolstats.stream/bitcoincash
PS: I don't think BCH is the solution for all the problems, i think Monero is, that's why i use Monero
Understood.
Monero definitely adopts a privacy first approach, so if you want privacy, you should use this coin. I also support the right to choose to use Monero if you wish
However, adoption is also an issue.
We are discussing the recent announcement of Tether onto the Bitcoin L1 and Lightning networks.
It has good and bad consequences, however the reality is that Bitcoin is not spendable in most scenarios today, whereas the USD is, so a tokenised dollar running on the Bitcoin network makes the use case as a currency much more compelling in the short term.
The problem, however, is that Bitcoin was supposed to replace the dollar, not facilitate it.
Only will put this fact on the table before i end defenitively the conversation with you, Monero is more used than Bitcoin, you can't find one store that accepts both that bitcoin is more used not to mention black markets..
You can see some of the Bitcoin merchants here:
Does Monero have a similar map?
They are all online.
Do you not have anything like BTCMap?
Each of those have listings/offers where you can meet in person. I know XMRBazaar is implementing a visual map like your link soon.
Only other thing I can think if is coinradar which you can filter for Monero
OK, so Aeneas claim was false.
I don't know if Monero has the same core concept, "Don't Trust, Verify"
It's a very powerful philosophy.
So, to be clear, Monero IS NOT as widely adopted as Bitcoin, not even close, nor is it widely used.
Making such claims destroys valid arguments that Monero is a privacy coin.
I support the right for Monero to exist, if people value their privacy, I support their right to use it.
But don't make false claims because it destroys the truth and support you have from people like me.
I think some research should be done about this to validate. While we can count transactions on Monero Blockchain, we wouldn't be able to validate how many users are using lightning without running a high traffic node for example, so there is a lot of speculation. Regarding making payments, there are several companies who accept both options who have expressed significantly more traffic in xmr transactions than other options.
Also the number of micro transactions on NOSTR would obfuscate data collection.
Also, if I send Bitcoin to my bank and then spend dollars with it, is this a valid transaction?
Identifying asset transfers from merchant spending would be nearly impossible.
But we’re not talking number of transactions, we’re talking merchant adoption and this is partially verifiable with BTC thanks to nostr:npub1864jglrrhv6alguwql9pqtmd5296nww5dpcewapmmcazk8vq4mks0tt2tq but by definition, Monero doesn’t want to be identified, so merchant adoption and merchant transaction volume are always obfuscated on Monero.
Again, all that said, the size of Bitcoin in every metric compared with all other altcoins combined is greater and verifiable, so singling out one of the 3 million altcoins to compare with the 58% dominant Bitcoin will always be moot.
I would agree with that
"Don't Trust, Verify" is just as alive in Monero community as Bitcoin. Almost every major wallet is non-custodial and FOSS (I don't really know many that aren't but I'm sure there are a few), you can run a Monero node, and additionally they don't trust their privacy with the world.
>"So, to be clear, Monero IS NOT as widely adopted as Bitcoin, not even close, nor is it widely used."
First part is true. But is very different from being "used".
>"But don't make false claims because it destroys the truth and support you have from people like me."
Also agree
What maybe gave Aeneas that impression is that proportionally most Bitcoiners place more emphasis on hodling vs Monero users. The average joe is also probably holding Bitcoin IOUs and letting it just sit there on their Coinbase app. And also things like this:
Just remembered this conversation and wanted to show you this
Ah nice 👍
They like anyone else can use it however they want. And they can fork it if they like just like anyone else.
Just add it to the list
1. Bitcoin Cash (BCH)
2. Bitcoin Gold (BTG)
3. Bitcoin SV (BSV)
4. Bitcoin Private (BTCP)
5. Bitcoin Atom (BCA)
6. Super Bitcoin (SBTC)
7. Bitcoin Classic (BCC)
8. Bitcoin Unlimited (BU)
9. Bitcore (BTX)
10. Bitcoin X (BCX)
They haven’t proposed any changes, so it doesn’t look to me they are hijacking anything. They are leveraging bitcoin to get rich
You can’t enforce self custody via a fork. People can always choose to hand over their assets to a custodian.
What does this look like? Say Trump issues Treasury Bonds to buy Bitcoin, thus backing (partly) US Debt with Bitcoin. Why would you need to fork?
Because they'll want more than 21 million and they'll want to prevent self custody at the protocol layer.
Larry at Blackrock has already hinted at breaking the 21M cap.
I don't think it'll happen, or that it's even possible for them to do this, but we need to keep vigilante.
Then they would be the ones forking and to a worse protocol at that.