Bitcoin Core will be used as a mule for free, unstoppable CP/CSAM by sickos or state actors, in order to attack Bitcoin and prosecute those who knowingly allow it.

This is the attack...

Once op_return is removed, plain JPEG images (not part of multiple fragments inside scripts that need to be pieced together and decoded, but plain JPEG/GIF/MP4) will be sent through your Bitcoin HardCore node version 30+, from one paedophile to others, possibly sold (Knots runners won't touch them, ever). Your Core node will happily pass it along, providing anonymity to the criminals (or state attackers, or Epstein's old clients).

They will pay a well below market rate initially (eventually zero), and never even need to get the transaction mined - key point. The original filter that Satoshi introduced, FEES, will be effectively bypassed...

After some time, these low-fee CP/CSAM txs will be dropped by Bitcoin Core nodes, but if they don't, the sicko(s) can do an RBF of the transaction (or if they have chained them, an RBF of a single low-fee unconfirmed parent), to cancel and invalidate the transaction so they don't have to actually pay for any of the downstream higher fee large transactions.

They will have successfully used your computer to transfer and potentially sell horrible images, without paying (so forget "filters don't work, they'll get on chain anyway"), thanks you being complicit, and thanks to all the Core devs who allowed this in. And those gaslighting against us saying this is wrong.

Then public opinion will turn heavily against Bitcoiners, if it isn't bad enough now. We already know it's going to get worse as most miss out.

@adam3us has pointed out, incorrectly (I'll explain), that this attack can't work, because of some "package relay". Sounds like this is a filter to stop RBFs of a parent if there is a long chain of transactions dependent on it.

A clever idea, but it can't work, Adam. Do you know why? Because your resistance itself is a form of FILTER, and FILTERS DON'T WORK, remember? You can not use an argument against us if that same argument is used to defend yourself.

An attacker can get their cancelling RBF transaction mined by going directly to a miner. Then the scumbags get away with using your Bictoin Core node for CP/CSAM transmission - it's irrelevant whether it gets on a block or not, it doesn't need to, the paying paedophile got his images.

Ironically, filters not working is the very reason we need filters.

There are 3 solutions.

1) Bitcoin Core reverses this STUPID rushed decision, introducing completely unnecessary risk to Bitcoin.

2) We all run Knots, and it becomes the reference client.

3) We move away from Core to Knots, and maybe others will pop up, and there is no reference client, meaning fewer meaningful changes to Bitcoin become likely.

Bitcoin doesn't need changes; it needs general light maintenance, so just maintain it, don't change it!

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Discussion

Full speed ahead with Knots

How to prevent this ?

Bitcoin Core can reverse the stupid changes

Wtf is wrong with these people?

Surely they see this

I know this one! The problem is they aren’t dead enough.

I agree. Many of Cores arguments seem to be techinally correct at a narrow level but once you step back and look at it with any form on context, it just falls apart. This argument about csam spam getting sent to all core 30 mempools with no way to filter and for free just seems undeniable

Exactly. The press will have a field day and normies will be totally alienated

Run core version < 30.0 is an option

Surely that’s what all the big miners will do? They won’t want that stuff on their hands

So is Bitcoin Core removing the stupid changes

Sure but at some point you have to decide

Where do the *sickos* get all their time/money to set up this elborate attack/system to hide their data? I'm thinking there is not that much to be gained for them longterm in this area. Most (ballparking here, 99.99%?) of humans arent into sicko stuff.

Eventually all nonfinancial data uses get price out. Those that make it - over say 5-10 years - must be providing some value to humans. Doubt sicko data maxis will make it.

They don't have to be real sickos, they can be state attackers, then they come after us with the public on their side

Additionally to what nostr:nprofile1qqs044j5pj8jl54pdgjapkpdm9wnhttcjr2rt5tfppy2pfma9zp6g3cpremhxue69uhkummnw3ez6ur4vgh8wetvd3hhyer9wghxuet59uqjvamnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3dwfjkccte9ecxs6tvd9cxxunfwd6xjctwduhxxmmd9ufzexy4 said, a main point in the post is the fact that it doesnt need to even get in a block. The CSAM would be willingly broadcasted by core 30 nodes around the network before ever accuring a fee because it would be held in the mempools. There is no "pricing it out" at that point and would require a filter to get rid of. Funny enough, that already exists...

Yes, I think I get this. In fact, in order to *filter* something, you have to *look for it* My node sees a provably unspendable op_return output from a TX and depending on the threshold, currently 83 bytes or less, sends TX to other nodes. But it has to *look* to see if its 83 bytes.....

What if someone shows up at your work/home and starts playing a horrible + illegal video/audio of something? Most likely people would *look* realize its terrible and throw the guy out, call the cops, shoot the guy.....

Is the person then at risk of *looking* at said illegal thing? What if its an email attachment? or an OP_Return data blob?

Seems like logic and common sense would prevail in these settings.

I agree. Intent matters. In the analogy you presented, the Core node wouldnt kick the person our of their house. They would take a picture of it on their phone so they have a copy and send it to their neighbors. And if somebody won the town raffle, the image would get displayed at townhall forever (blockchain). Sorry, I kinda had fun with that lol

The various state actors who want to stop all forms of self sovereignty, will use any tool or weapon to break their opposition. We fight against powers and principalities...

Or many of the individual state actors will personally start stacking bitcoin......

Then the state will have a hard time *politically* and logistically sustaining an effective longterm *attack plan*

Guys, this is Parman... I've heard all these technical / jargon-y arguments, they didn't convince me, but techy people didn't listen to me, cuz what do I know? I get it. Its okay. But this is Parman. Listen to him.

nostr:nevent1qqsdujhk59km4uy0k9tgkmpt8g7hm94jfsznnjdjtk9y4ty5xhpcreqppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qgs044j5pj8jl54pdgjapkpdm9wnhttcjr2rt5tfppy2pfma9zp6g3crqsqqqqqp6sqm3f

You mentioned fees being a filter. Can we get rid of segwit? Is there a way? Please?

I think just removing the witness discount would suffice. Why do you want to get rid of it?

Block weight makes transactions cheaper, which is nice, but its the wrong strategy. Block space is supposed to be scarce. If we just find ways to make it not-scarce, then fees will never reflect the urgency of the transaction. The market was already structured to support mining when the coinbase runs out - segwit broke the economics of mining 100 years in the future, and quite possibly earlier.

Segwit was introduced to prevent transaction malleability attacks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transaction_malleability_problem

Hmmm, the US is also pushing all their censorship agendas using pedophelia examples ... You're making me think twice about those pushing everyone to Knots now ..

Bitcoin is a monetary network. Not a venue for free speech activism. This is not censorship. Its like saying a gym restricting people from pitching tents and having campfires is censorship. No, just not the place for that.

Understood, let me word it differently. When Govts are against Bitcoin they said it is used mainly for criminals to do illegal things.

We know that isn't true.

So when we have a Core vs Knots debate should we use the same arguments Govts do ( in this case OP used Pedophilia).

Plenty of other, more valid, examples for Core vs Knots, no need to use Govt scare tactics and broad generalizations about how Core users are helping criminals.

Totally got that. My point remains.

There is no debate in the matter to me at all. There is not a complex balance to be found between free speech and a functioning Bitcoin network.

Users are not losing any personal freedom or rights by keeping the Bitcoin network an exclusively monetary network.

With govt policies, there is a threat of losing personal freedoms when controls are put in place for “safety”. The safety vs freedom balance is a real issue with centralized governance over the lives of citizens.

This logic does not apply to a decentralized monetary network. Our freedom and lives are not controlled by the Bitcoin network. It is simply just a P2P monetary exchange network and should remain simply that.

You totally misunderstood, read carefully

Removing OP_RETURN entirely would require a softfork though?

Is the post gone or just me

Loud and clear on my end

Are Bitcoiners finally waking up that Block stream/Core NEVER have been the good guys?

And Luke is a good guy? Come one.

Absolutely not.

The good guys - Bitcoin Jesus and his fellows got crucified 8 years ago.

History rhymes.

What does Blockstream have to do with this

I think they're funding devs, but idk. It does look like Adam Back changed his position, though. I think it's too early to celebrate though.

Bitcoin as a whole is captured. If you use Core or Knots, no difference. And the funny thing, both teams seems to hate rach other but both are working on the same code. Find the error. JFC. Come on and grow up.

Don't play their stupid games and move on.

4) Don't upgrade to Core 30+

just upgraded now

Whenever I see "pedophiles" or "child safety" cited as justifications, it makes me pause and not in a good way. History shows this rhetoric has been exploited to push harmful policies, so I approach such arguments with skepticism. If the entire premise of a critique hinges on moral outrage over CP/CSAM, that raises red flags for me about its credibility and intent.

We've been conditioned in that regard. Makes me wonder if the threat of cp is the attack, not the cp itself. So we move to a more manipulable node platform. I'm not tech savvy enough to know how, but i know that trying to poison the protocol with this demonic content is not new. I haven't even seen anything that justifies this fear, only the fear itself. Granted i don't need to put eyes on it to know that persistent psychos would absolutely try this, I get the same feeling. Feels like a psyop. The effect of having lived through dozens of psyops-the fear of a psyop is the psyop.

Why does it matter if it’s “plain JPEG images” instead of fragments? It’s just differently encoded data. This sounds like fear-mongering.

Honest question, as I understand it OP_RETURN isn't being removed, the OP_RETURN size limit is being removed (is that true?). If so, wasn't OP_RETURN was specifically designed to be easily pruneable? So why wouldn't people just choose to prune OP_RETURNs from their nodes? Then they wouldn't be "hosting" anything that may get in from this change, right?

nostr:nevent1qqsdujhk59km4uy0k9tgkmpt8g7hm94jfsznnjdjtk9y4ty5xhpcreqzyradv4qv3uha9gt2yhgdstwet5a667ys6s6az6ggfzs2wlfgswjywqcyqqqqqqgprv8k0

You're on NOSTR?

At this point I’m just annoyed of people who want to tell others how they have to use bitcoin 🙄

Are there not already entire JPGs on the timechain thanks to ordinals in taproot sigs?