Nostr is actually for everybody, itβs can truly be ANYTHING. it can be molded to every persons specific tastes.
we need to stop the echo chamber that gets worse and worse everyday.
as much as this small protocol gives me immense joy, we should actually want the general public to join, instead of using nostr as an ego boost to turn noses up at everyone else on social medias.
Freedom isn't free, even on #nostr; it requires being open to encountering dissenting views, even if you can mute them right away.
I talk to people here that I would never encounter offline. Often people who I strongly disagree with on some issues, but learn from on others.
Normies simply don't enjoy this.
"Walled Garden" community-specific relays could fix this, but require critical mass.
i think youβll come to find out we have much more in common with the βnormiesβ you speak of .
this popular sentiment amongst nostr users is actually ironically creating a walled garden itself, furthering nostr to become what it originally fought against.
That's not really fair, as you're on theforest and that automatically gets you more high-quality interaction. Most people are just on the big relays and their replies are dead as a doornail.
I love TheForest, and all you crazy cats.
But I also browse on Global, like a whaleshark swimming in cringe instead of seawater. Sometimes I reply or react, and sometimes complete strangers hold conversations.
If I were trying to attract Normies, I'd build custom versions of big apps pre-filled with only community-specific relays (instead of forks), and share those apps with very specific communities.
Making an app community-specific shouldn't require a fork, but devs dream of being autocrats of their own forked kingdoms. Maybe we need a workflow that allows non-devs to easily create walled garden versions of each Nostr app.
Don't invites already do that? You can invite someone to use a Nostr app and have it preload with your preferred relays, or something.
It's just the relay settings (except Primal, with that weird cache server thing). I use only theforest on all apps, and that works fine.
#Alexandria will also let you change the community relay to wss://whateveryouwant.com, but it's not planned to be added to the settings for the MVP. You won't need to fork it, to have a different experience, and you can then invite people to your variant, by sharing your settings. Settings are an event.
And you can already login and change it to use your relay list.
We're also going to allow different stylesheet with masks and stuff, as that's how we're going to build the #biblestr variant. Biblestr is the version planned for after Defoe, and we're going to design the customization we do to be reusable for other customizations.
We're going to give it its own domain, tho, so that it's more attractive off-Nostr because it has a Bible-y name.
I was just having a moment because someone I know well has been steadily building and improving on the same app for over a year, now, and it keeps getting incrementally better and closer to a full application (and no bugs, will Nostr miracles never cease), but his stuff gets no play because everyone is busy whining to Trending Devs And Famous People that their app is broken again or that their vibe-coded whatever is acting erratically, and it's like
It's brutally difficult to get users, on here, unless you have a gigantic npub, or you have OpenSats marketing for you, which limits the options users have and sort of defeats the whole purpose of interoperability. If it were possible to get users onto different systems, there would be more incentive to build different systems, targeting different user bases.
is it yakihonne π
No, but same story. I was on here for almost 1.5 years before I'd even heard of it.
many instances of this sadly, i speak this as i use primal on my iphone, i am probably the biggest hypocrite on this protocol in that instance.
yakihonne continues to excel every protocol but gets ZERO love.
i would love to know what client you are talking about though, i probably donβt even know of its existence sadly.
*client not protocols π€¦
maybe i should shut up since i donβt have any skin in the game, nor do i even understand technology in the slightest.
You shouldn't need to understand it, is the thing.
What really helps is having clients aimed at onboarding different audiences, with different community relays as default, so that Nostr is really just used as a communications protocol, rather than as the product. The product is the app+relay combination that they are using, and the product is what uses Nostr, not the user.
Once they've gotten used to Nostr, then they can start adding in more relays and using other clients, and etc. The first one they use is very important, tho, I think.
It's essential to just acknowledge that Primal is a bitcoin community app, but that anyone can use it because you can de-bitcoinify it a bit with your user settings. But onboarding absolutely everyone to a Bitcoin community app is not ideal.
Also, many Bitcoiners are fickle users, as they surge in and out dramatically, with swings in price or some shitstorm. So, users who arrive when the Bitcoiners are all here, might have a positive experience, and then the Bitcoiners all migrate back to X, and the feeds suddenly go ded. That's why we need more users who aren't just here to talk about Bitcoin stuff, so that usage is more steady and the biggest npubs don't ghost for weeks or months at a time.
All of that said, we're slowly getting more apps tailored to the wider public, but it's hard to compete with the marketing power Jack, Odell, Gigi, etc. If they don't promote it, it doesn't exist, basically, unless the dev themselves has 50k+ followers (which is usually only the case if they've been here since Day 1).
IMO, targeting regular casual entertainment-seeking normies is not where the money will be for building stuff with nostr tech
you want to get customers who are running a dev shop or research labs with distributed locations and similar sorts of businesses who need comms and an easily searchable archive of all kinds of data, including git repositories and documents, stuff like calendars and interfaces to teleconferencing tools
they also don't need to particularly know how it works, but they will like it for reasons like, for example, a dev shop may not want to be trusting the highly untrustworthy microsoft to not spider their private repositories into their AI models, or even just get hacked and have their data dumped on the dark web
People trying things out in the free time is cheap marketing, tho. Lots of the time, it's the sys admin or dev suggesting the company use something he's played around with in his free time or used while he was at an internship or etc. They don't like to recommend unfamiliar things, so you need to have a freemium version out there, to get your foot in the purchasing-department door.
That's why we're putting so much effort into the content displayed from the relays, so that people can go there and see how everything works and use it casually, for a time, before deciding if they _really_ want to use it. That means it needs to "look alive" and show some relatable stuff, but have no gross content.
you can do/post what you want, i have a feeling it is discouraging to those that are thinking of building, or currently building .. to read open ended question threads like this proclaiming a problem with no solution(s).
maybe im just out of touch and this kind of thing actually helps and i can just shut up because i grew up before internet and have a weak tolerance for constant doom or whatever is the thing these days.
if i had used social media before now, it prob could have easily ruined my life, opinions and resolve to succeed or at least try.
The people who grew up before the Internet aren't the ones struggling with this because we're used to digging around and finding other people in obscure places on the web. Someone who grew up with social media feeds is lost, if they show up on a client and people just say "find your tribe, adjust your relays, choose your client".
Also, you're an IT expert and most users aren't.
And, at any rate, this thread already helped promote some clients nobody has heard of, so I appreciate it. It's rare to get a chance to plug anything off the beaten path.
The rest of the feed is just people getting extremely excited about whatever Jack just, so this is really refreshing, TBH. π
Jack isn't actually the only person on Nostr. Few know this.
ah good, yes keep promoting the lesser known projects. we can't all be besties with derek ross.
No. Don't shut up. That is precisely the problem.
People are finally starting to see how boorishly nitwitty the primal crew is because others are pointing it out, and a lot of the other "key nostr devs" are also finally being revealed as hacky egoists.
This is Nostr. You can't be (easily) censored. Say what you want, when you want.
the tall one at the back looks bosnian ;)
Just looks like a typical tall white dude to meπ€·.
bosnians are tall and he reminds me of one i used to know
also, "white dudes" are found all over europe, but they do have some distinctive traits
also i can believe by how white that beach is that it's actually in croatia
I need to visit Croatia before I die. I take it you've been there?
just rode a bus through it on the way to banja luka a couple of times
i understand the beaches are very nice
Yep, that's what I've heard. Would make for a nice family vacation, perhaps.
True. I'm mostly Irish, but I definitely inherited the german gene when it comes to height. My dad is actually friends with a former german coworker of his who's 6'7. Nice guy. Great stock trader. I wonder if he bought into bitcoinπ€...
It's https://lumina.rocks/. The whole time Olas was down, my feed was full of people complaining that they can't post anymore pictures, but you can post kind 20 image notes from lumina, nostr.build, Amethyst, and Jumble, just to name a few, and Derek even jumped in with an emergency replacement, and they were all working fine.
But, when Olas went down, the picture feeds stalled out, as everyone stopped posting, all at once. It's like when Primal goes down or etc. Nobody thinks, "Oh, I'll just use a different one...." And lots of the people who "take a break, waiting for Nostr to get fixed" don't return. Lose users, everytime, due to this extreme centralization.
We're too much like the Matrix protocol, where you can use any interoperable client, so long as it's Element.
Saw this for the first time in your post earlier. Looks good, have bookmarked.
havenβt even heard of lumina at all, thank you for sharing
nostr:npub1fq8vrf63vsrqjrwqgtwlvauqauc0yme6se8g8dqhcpf6tfs3equqntmzut is a serious, steady developer, that's just been quietly building on the same project, to little fanfare, in his spare time and on his own dime.
His relay is actually one of the most-active ones on Nostr because he aggregates from all over the world, and that's why we stream to-and-from it from our thecitadel document relay, to make sure that we don't miss out on someone's documents just because they're in Asia or Mexico, or something.
Well, it looks like I've found out why you haven't heard of it. I've been regularly posting links to pretty Lumina galleries, and I know you sometimes see my posts. But Primal swaps the links out, so you can't see them. π₯΄
because primal devs are spechul, like the kinds at the special school
we are just their livestock, and damnit if we ain't an ornery bunch
Lumina rocks!
Neat! Will give it a go. Deleted Olas.
But seriously, that's a user side problem.
It's like 'OMG outlook isn't working anymore, email is dead'.
Yeah, but most Nostr users are like that. π
Do I need to do anything special to post a kind 20 image with amethyst?
No idea. I've just used the viewer.
I've posted them from Jumble, Nostrudel Event Publisher, and Lumina, so far.
nostr:nprofile1qqsfnw64j8y3zesqlpz3qlf3lx6eutmu0cy6rluq96z0r4pa54tu5eqq8rtwq do you know if Amethyst also publishes, or just views?
Amethyst publishes. Go in the media tab (where you see the kind 10 feed) and make a new post from there, instead of from the regular feed.
Nope, just go the that video/image viewer tab on the bottom (the middle one with the playbutton icon thingy). When you use the publish/post button there, it automatically makes a kind 20(picture) or kind22 (video) for you. :)
This thread is totally broken on Amethyst. Impossible for me to read it on Amethyst right now π the thread jumps all over the place all the time
yes, well.....this is mostly user error though.
take nostr:nprofile1qqsyfq5nwvm97w68vvfgpu7x38rwmlxrt4vdmg8yng0npys40qdhxtspzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgqgdwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkcynqmaw for example.
He came to Nostr 2 days ago and shared some pictures (they are amazing, go have a look). I informed him on the existence of kind20 and send him to Olas. Now Olas being shit, it did not work for him, but he found (as far as i can tell) Lumina all by himself, and started using that. I never heard of Lumina, neither had the jungle spirit btw.
Now he came from the fediverse and runs an IPFS-node (we can forgive him for both of those things), so he is knows his way around a computer lets say. Still, he figured it all out on his first day with a little bit of assistance, others might take some more time.
Now i am a big proponent to include multiple clients when ''onboarding'' people, to drive this point home immediately, so thats something ''we'' can do. And perhaps we should also stop recommending stuff Pablo makes, because he just leaves a trace of crappy minimal barely/not even viable prototype abandonware, which absolutely has its purpose if you ask me.
But we should also accept that the user base has to adjust to the paradigm, just as much as developers and everyone else in this world has to.
In my defense I set up two self hosted blossom servers yesterday - route96 and nostrcheck-server.
Both of them puke on large video uploads, so I guess ipfs is winning ;)
https://nostrfiles.macneilmediagroup.com
I like nostr a lot, but Iβm OK with these sorts of projects. As it currently stands, this is not something that I would recommend to most people, unless I was willing to handhold them through it.
From a usability standpoint, I would probably direct more non-technical people to the fediverse, but that can change overnight. Lots of things here are very broken and key management is a new and unconventional paradigm for the general public.
I donβt know why I missed this incredible thread. With this other client he appeared to me.
Do you want your cup of cold concrete freshly poured, or we can let it sit for a day, no extra charge?
Damus is awesome
Would love to check out this app you talking about and give it some love :)
Loving the visualization options and the ux/ui design in lumina.rocks. π₯π
Would love to be able to choose/select to view a feed according to my followings or following+replies (eventually even follow packs) since right now in iOS (safari) you canβt see which section is which (besides global)
Also, must be a small bug, when checking my own profile, no images load, not even when i hit βload moreβ
Will also check on desktop,
Thanks for putting it on my radar :)
