ICE seems to be sending immigrants to Guantanamo shout out to everyone who voted for this ✌️
Discussion
The whole ICE thing seems very odd. I can’t make out whether it’s good in the short term or terrible in the long term
Try terrible in the short term and long term.
Is there no positive re the open borders from last 4 years ?
Hard to find one, with all the human rights abuses going on now.
What's happening now is worse, IMHO, 100%. The vast majority of people crossing the border are doing so for better job opportunities. They're not hurting anyone.
Creating an armed, masked secret police force to tackle these 50-year old car wash workers and throw them into gulags, supported with (now) _explicit_ racial profiling being allowed by the Supreme Court... yes, that's worse.
Natural flow is positive, an agenda to flood countries with migrants and fund them, nope.
Oh come on, you're saying that if "Davos" didn't decree it, millions of people wouldn't naturally want to seek better opportunities in the USA vs their impoverished Central / South American homeland?
So what, was there an "globalist agenda" to cause the massive wave of Irish immigrants during the Potato famine?
Was it those "pesky globalists at it again" back when Peloponnesian War in 431 BC that caused a refugee crisis, straining the resources of Athens?
Geez, Soros must have a time machine or something!
If you don’t recognise the massive problem occurring i don’t have much else to say. I travel constantly, globally. It’s a bigger problem than I’ve ever seen in 40 years
Almost 80% of Americans polled are pro-immigration, even the ones that voted for the current mess.
Nothing wrong with immigration, very positive
If you are honestly debating whether sending people who have committed no crime to a torture camp that is known for amputating people's healthy limbs is "good in the short term" you can respectfully go fuck yourself
inb4 the bootlickers reply with “So they shouldn’t have crossed the border in the first place.”
Who is they ?
I get it if you believe in open borders but you have no idea who’s entered your country
Me I guess.
Im a “bootlicker” because I want people to obey the law when and how they come here. 🙄
I want a limited government that upholds the Constitution and laws, so…
We all do so …
We who? If this were true, we would have that.
Most here
I want to government, but I venture to say that a very large portion of them wouldn't be here if previous administrations hasn't literally bussed and flow them in by the millions, at the expense of myself and my progeny. So, it they wanna send them back, I won't protest it.
Of course. Sounds amazing.
What if I told you the current laws, allow anyone from anywhere in the world, to come to any American border point and ask for asylum.
And it is the current Administration in power that’s violating the law, by denying asylum to anyone(except White South Africans) and locking up those already in the asylum process.
Deporting everyone, including non criminals aliens, who are currently in the process of determining their asylum status.
So if you did care about LAWS, then you should upset at the current administration for not following THE LAW.
I’m referring to the millions who poured across the southern border with zero checks, not genuine asylum seekers
Genuine Asylum seekers are currently being detained and held in jail until their asylum case has been ruled on by a judge. If they don’t want to stay in jail, they can “voluntarily” be deported by giving up their asylum case. That is happening right now for Asylum seekers who entered the country through border checkpoints.
On December 4th in Boston at a citizenship ceremony, several people from 19 countries who have been living in America for more than a decade, were in the process of swearing their allegiance to America. Individuals from the 19 countries were removed from the ceremony and told their citizenship swearing was effectively canceled. These a people who have already gone through ALL KINDS OF VETTING PROCESS.
If you real care about the laws of America, then you should pay close attention to what is happening to legal immigrants all over America. Legal immigrants and American citizens have been snatched off the streets and detained until they can prove their status. Trump administration is currently violating the rights of people across the country.
Obama deported over 3 millions plus people, without resorting to mass arrests of anyone that looked brown or black.
This situation can be handled without dragging people from their cars, schools, work places and in front of their children.
That i agree with
As always, anything to do with the State, follow the money. All immigration jails are private prisons.
The Big Beautiful Bill set aside $40 BILLION for Immigration detention facilities. 3 companies run over 90% of immigration detention facilities.
Trump administration is holding legal(those currently waiting for their asylum applications to be granted)and “illegal” immigrants in these private jails.
In previous administrations, asylum seekers were not detained until their status is determined. Currently about 80,000 people are in those jails waiting for their status approval or deportation.
Overwhelming numbers of them do not have criminal records.
This is a money grab by the State and their sponsors.
Ok. So you think it is ok to have a state acting criminal, when some peoplemthat enter are not genuine asylum seekers?
I think your line of thinking is flawed...
Thanks for pointing this out. Written laws is the base of checks and balance. By what measure would a society work, when laws are broken by the government?
I would have higher expectations to state employees payed by tax money than from imigrants.
I expect Police to be a rolemodel for upholding the rights of a state. Otherwise, what legitimation would they have in their activities?
It’s a question that needs asking, it’s not a Fuck off. Millions crossed during the covidscam with no medical torture, yet millions of Americans were forced to take experimental jabs and now have to fund millions of illegal aliens via taxes. It’s an obvious question when I as a British person am expected to jump through multiple hoops to enter. I guess put them up at your place.
Also I never suggested Guantanamo as an option
So you are suggesting that people should be deported to torture camps bc you have to fill out a form to come to america
Lmfao please get out of my replies you pathetic psycho
I never mentioned Guantanamo. You did. I was asking about ICE as a concept yo deal with a problem. Your response is childish
And yes to deported if they cross illegally and have no right to be there.
And No to torture camps
It’s f’ing simple.
And yes i have to register my entry and exit every f’ing time.
As should everyone if ‘we’ believe in Nation States and borders. If not then send who the fuck you want in, which was happening. Not looking great for America longterm
Deporting People doesn’t mean torturing people. It means f’ing deporting them. Back to their country of origin unless they are genuinely at risk, then that becomes something different. An agenda to flood a country with millions of other cultures to push division and create problems is not a valid ‘refugee’ issue.
Refugee is a whole different subject, these are illegal aliens crossing illegally.
These people make it easier to just say “yes” then waste time arguing.
Yes, I think that illegal immigrants should be removed at all costs. Anything else?
The stupid point about torturing winds me up. Of course no one should be tortured, they’re humans. My initial question was just is a short period of ICE a good thing or not. Obviously longterm it’s like a Stasi potentially.
Immigration control enforcement should be standard, permanent, and strict. The bad part was the decades of lackluster enforcement. We should fix the current situation using any means necessary. Quote it!
the progressives and the open borders libertarians already decided that no dialogue will take place with people who only want to stop sending them to torture camps. so we will continue to have torture camps.
You’re a respected independent journalist. What is your answer to millions of completely unknown people flooding the States ? If your only answer is saying Guantanamo to my question then maybe rethink your journalism
Agreed 😬
Maby to have a legitimate border police, that has responsible officers working according the laws of the country?
Demanding more resources for the lawsystem to offer a fair traial to every imigrant. That would be an option that is humain and align with human rights.
Oh FFS get a grip. It’s not what’s been going on. Stop being a f’ing libtard just for the sake of it. I’m not saying people shouldn’t seek asylum, I’m saying the system is broken. I’m sorry but I’m not a modern day moron, I see it and call it out unlike Lola and this BS. I’m not a Trump / Biden / Obama / Bush follower. I’m a human who gives a shit. These policies are part of such an obvious agenda to break down society yet you all just bleat like sheep. Wake up !
What is obvious to you seems spectacular to me. You speak like a quiet cynic person, that just throws all in the same pot.
But there is a systemic difference in governments, that execute questional decisions and a government, that attacks checks and balances, the free press and acts as if it would stand above the law.
In a best case the current US government unites the society in enforcing the democratic foundations. In the worst case, they are successful in their plan to erradicate the foundations.
As if all the others weren’t. For Christ’s sake, it’s all a game. We’re being played. Stop buying into the BS. Everything is a set up for the next.
Example : I’m 58. Lived through the fear mongering later 70s early 80s Nuclear War constant propaganda. Now the EU repeats the same BS. The EU is f’ing broke, useless cunts who’ve wrecked their economies through ridiculous economic / energy policies and now wants us to believe it’s all Russia’s fault. NO. They are self serving, useless leeches who have no interest in their citizens. Time to wake up
You seem to live in a different world than me. I just woke up and most EU countries apart from Hungary are still powerful democracies. Yes they are in dept.
But you putting the Mafiastate of the FSB as victims is just too telling what propaganda you are following 🫣😂
Maby time to wake up from the FSB-Propaganda 😉
Is this Ursula ?
This is your wonderful democracy, a failing State turning dystopian in their desperation.
nostr:note123ayt6cw75676x343ql5ar0tug8h0pslhrl64jexyerrhjydqnuq5j7f24
I am not claiming that european countries are wonderful democracies. But I still would not see examples of higher forms of democracy and freedom in other countries.
Apart from Switzerland 😉
There are no ‘democracies’ . We are conditioned to believe that. You vote for nothing more than poor options that change zilch.
Participate in politics, get active and see, that the only person holding you back is you. It is plain false what you say. Every citizen can get active.
But you have to decide toldo so. Your political liberties are by no way restricted to voting.
"completely unknown people flooding the States"
What right do I have to know the movements of other people?
Ah ok, you believe in open borders. That’s more like it. Honesty. Personally i don’t. Not with the political system we have in place. A more balanced World yes but that’s not where we’re at
Illegally entering a country is a crime.
Nobody is wanting anyone tortured or have their limbs removed.
—Its Conjecture that thats even happening. You show a screenshot if a plane that went to Cuba. Might of had an actual terrorist on it. You don’t know.
In any event, How about just send illegals back to where they came from?
Yes, I voted for that.
So then might request this from your government while holding them accountable for the crimes against humanrights, that they commit.
Or would you go as far and deny human rights to some of our species?
Let me fix that for ya libtard, ILLEGAL immigrants. And how many ? One, three, seven ? One thousand? Maybe murderers, rapists? .......or maybe none at all and you made this all up because you are nothing more than a political hack pretending to be a "citizen journalist." Nostr word warrior L0la Lotta Nonsense of the Rag strikes again.😆
looking at nostr:nprofile1qy2hwumn8ghj7etyv4hzumn0wd68ytnvv9hxgqtxwaehxw309anxjmr5v4ezumn0wd68ytnhd9hx2tmwwp6kyvtjw3k8zcmp8pervct409shwdtwx45rxmp4xseryerdx3ehy7f4v3axvet9xsmrjdnxw9jnsuekw9nh2ertwvmkg6n5veen7cnjdaskgcmpwd6r6arjw4jsqgq6lcx8fc7h0p8t4ya9u0a92jnwavqe9rgjwwdw3wjgxfuxsz8rd5mths8c and nostr:nprofile1qy0hwumn8ghj7cnfw33k76twd4shs6tdv9kxjum5wvhx7mnvd9hx2qg4waehxw309ajkgetw9ehx7um5wghxcctwvsqzq3e0gs8jnmued6f2rp4c6vs07xqvs4vs8zpwt82smcdch4txjvq76kl2yj
Frankly they’re lucky they’re not shot on sight like they would be in most places throughout history. No state does not mean no rules. They come in dilute the culture and go on welfare. Fuck yea I voted for this.
“Dilute the culture” my guy you dont have any culture lmfao
BUT THE ARABS RAPING IN EUROPE AND PEOPLE SIPHONING WELFARE ILLEGALLY IN THE US DO HAVE CULTURE RIGHT LOL. FUCK TRUMP, BUT GOOD LUCK /W YOUR #TDS
First of all, immigrants in the US probably work harder than you and your family and sexual violence continues to be predominantly committed by white males in Europe.
Second of all, much of your own culture actually dates back to "Arabs," without whom you would, for example, not have a toilet, which was invented in Pakistan/Ancient Mesopotamia (modern day Iraq), not be able to read and write, which was invented in Ancient Mesopotamia (modern day Iraq), and not be able to do math, with the numbers we use to this day invented in Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia (modern day Iraq).
While this is a lot of fun, I suggest you read a book my guy! ✌️
Dayum girl, didn't know you had it in you. Welcome to the fight 🛡️🗡️
- Soap/hygiene - Moors, Mesopotamia
- Numbers, algebra, air conditioners, refrigerators that work in deserts - Persia, Indus Valley
- Consciousnesses, Quantum physics, Atomic theory - Indus valley, Persia
- Original Bible - either Palestine or Ethiopia, written entirely on goat skin, quite thick and heavy, bound by goat sinew string, 5th century or older
- Several modern-day inventions and research - forgotten and quashed women of history, of all colors ♀️
Yeah, colonizers have no culture. You gotta understand this is WHY they colonize‼️ #ShameChangesSides when we realize they're the problem.
Where do you come up with this shit?
What race are you?
Have you thought about making your way back to reddit and staying with your own people?
Another self hating white woman lol
There is nothing more statist than cheering on a militarized government agency removing people from their magical government boundaries
There is nothing more statist than allowing a welfare magnet to attract the dregs of society from every corner of the globe and being a whiny bitch when your fellow citizens do something about it
There is nothing more statist than demanding the monopoly on violence enforce your preferred population filters instead of questioning why anyone needs permission to exist somewhere.
The monopoly on violence brings them here and subsidizes their existence at your expense.
And guess what? If they’re allowed to take power they will use it to oppress you. Muslims and Mexican Catholics don’t like liberal values.
I'm guessing you leave the doors of your house open because otherwise you're enforcing your preferred population filters on your house instead if questioning why anyone needs permission to be there. 🤡
My house isn't subsidized by your taxes and my locks don't require a border patrol. Try again.
Someone breaks a window and lets themselves in. Do you enforce your preferred population filters with violence, ask the state to intervene with violence, or question why anyone needs permission to exist there? 😂
I lock my door and would hire private security if needed - voluntary exchange, my resources, my choice. Your borders require tax extraction, standing armies, and coerced participation from everyone. One is voluntary, one demands institutional dependency.
He already killed your private security. He's already in your house. He broke the window and let himself in. It's not just your house anymore, you're sharing it with an uninvited guest and a couple of his friends. Who are you to question why they need permission to be there?
If that's in your risk assessment, then you pick a better package from the security company...
You didn't file for a homestead tax exemption? Seems pretty stupid if you didn't.
So true. I'd much rather be allowed to allocate my own violence inorder to enforce my preffered filters.
This is all problem reaction solution. In anarchy / free market the land would be privately owned effectively creating borders.
With no welfare state the immigrant would need wealth or some sort of sponsor (a charity, family, employer, or other contact willing to allocate their own resources to support them.)
Of course we don't live in such a world and so nations have borders. The UN, DHS, and a bunch of NGOs literally paved a road and paid people to immigrate to the US. This is an intentional demographic attack. These immigrants are pawns just like US citizens.
Biden opened the border claiming that legislation was the only way to fix the border, but he was simply not enforcing existing law. Drumph proved this to be true by simply closing the border. But he is also using the problem to normalize militarized streets and people being snatched up.
ITS ALMOST LIKE TRUMP AND BIDEN ARE PART OF THE SAME NETWORK AND EXECUTING THE SAME PLAN.
No voter is responsible for what "elected" leaders do. This is all pro-wrestling.
Ya but it’s not. Instead communists are using immigrants as pawns to dismantle what’s left of civil liberties. Do you understand how close the US was to collapse? If Kamala won then we’d be getting speech crime treatment like the UK
We are so far away from the situation you describe with open borders and no welfare state it just makes you look stupid. The US has by far the most laissez faire immigration policy and it’s not working to increase liberty only to take it
I don't think we disagree actually. I'm not for open borders.
I think you may be thinking too small though. The people behind this aren't communists. The leftists who support the Biden immigration episode certainly are. Both political parties (the politicians) support what Biden did.
Divide and conquer is the strategy. What ICE is doing now just makes us look like assholes. I don't understand why Trump didn't just tell the states that he wants a list of every illegal alien that is in jail for a violent crime. It would be more transparent, focussed, and make any Governor who refused to cooperate look like the asshole.
They shouldn't be here but this approach sets the precedent that this is what the US government can do to anyone. Imagine the next leftist president who doesn't believe there is such a thing as an illegal alien but that there are certain groups of people who simply need to be picked up. Imagine another Covid with this precedent.
All of these agencies should have their power reduced, not expanded.
If it was guaranteed that anarchy would work. But. The only way it could be achieved and sustainable was to have a White ethnostate would you still be in favor of it?
I reject the premise. I don't even know what white means honestly. But if people who consider themselves white took a plot of uninhabited land and didn't commit aggression against others and became a shining city upon the hill that others would aspire too, I'm cool with that.
Anarchy isn't really meant to "work." Its meant to be a morally superior system of self government that is based on responsibility, morality, and true cooperation with other individuals.
The ability to muster an army of obedient slaves is a great weapon against anarchy. Somalia was booming when the warlords gave up on ruling the country in the 90's. But the US broke all that shit up in 2001.
Anarchy doesn't work if the people aren't sufficiently educated morally and technically. Bureaucracy wins at the macro level it seems.
"Anarchy isn't really meant to "work.""
Oh
Haha I guess that was a pretty bad answer.
Anarchy seems like an asymptotic goal that you can never really reach. But if you actually limit a governments functions to protecting the rights of the people it was declared to serve. So protecting life, liberty, and property ala Frederic Bastiate's "The Law" then you would be pretty close to anarchy.
It sure didn't work out that well here in the states. Once people realized they could vote for politicians that promised to plunder their neighbors and then created these cartoonist puppet political parties it started to go to shit.
This is probably why voters were required to own property in the beginning.
Yeah I agree. I think property ownership being a necessity probably kept things pretty balanced here. I think we were largely taught "women couldn't vote" was a trick. I view it more of there was a vote per household. But yeah between opening voting up to everyone and then flooding the country with all sorts of people that can't comprehend the basis of the country let alone agree with the values things seemed to get out of control fast.
I was really only teasing about your answer. I think no government is a decent goal. I just don't think it's an option because we have strayed so far from the original meaning of what a nation is. But I guess does an anarchical society even consider itself a nation? I mean would there be a border? Would anyone be free to come and go or does everyone have to agree on the format and function of things? I don't know I'm riffing
I think property ownership was used as a proxy to select for those who had received a classical liberal education (trivium and quadrivium), and a basic Christian understanding of human rights. I'm not a Christian, that's just what I think was the logic there.
Anarchy is a goal you’ll never reach. So in the meantime imo it’s about optimizing governance to be minimally tyrannical and maximally beneficial to honest moral people.
The issue is that we are rapidly approaching anarcho tyranny which is the inverse: maximally tyrannical and maximally harmful to moral honest people. So at this starting condition I will take anything that either makes the gov less tyrannical or makes it benefit good honest people more. Stopping the flow of immigrants seeking hand outs is a no brainer. It has barely any negative consequences except maybe hypotheticals about Palantir boogiemen which imo are overstated or at best properly stated and going to happen whether or not we evict freeloaders from the Third World.
Approaching?
"In the Criminal Code of 1926 there was a most stupid Article 139 – “on the limits of necessary self-defense” —according to which you had the right to unsheath your knife only after the criminal’s knife was hovering over you. And you could stab him only after he had stabbed you. And otherwise you would be the one put on trial. (And there was no article in our legislation saying that the greater criminal was the one who attacked someone weaker than himself.) This fear of exceeding the measure of necessary self-defense lead to total spinelessness as a national characteristic. A hoodlum once began to beat up the Red Army man Aleksandr Zakharov outside a club. Zakharov took out a folding penknife and killed the hoodlum. And for this he got….ten years for plain murder! “And what was I supposed to do?” he asked, astonished. Prosecutor Artsishevsky replied: “You should have fled!” So tell me, who creates hoodlums?"
Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn
The Gulag Archipelago, Volume 2: An Experiment in Literary Investigation, 1918-1956.
How many strange immigrants do you currently have living in your home? Is your front door a magical personal space boundary? I could come and knock it down and then I could come live in your home right? You would let me cause of the boundary now being completely imaginary right?
Hey cunt. We're going to fucking kill you.
Oh no Im really scared :( ping
me again re this when mommy has let you out of the basement
like telling a fish the water they swim in doesnt exist
DIDNT VOTE FOR IT BUT YEAH SEEMS LIKE A PLAN. WOULD YOU PREFER TO LEAVE THE BORDERS OPEN THEN AND DO NOTHING ... CLEARLY THERE IS A REASON THEY CHOSE THESE PARTICULAR ILLEGALS. I KNOW A LOT OF ILLEGALS AND NONE OF THEM HAVE HAD AN ISSUE... BECAUSE THEYRE MINDING THEIR OWN BUSINESS. GET A FUCKIN GRIP
10,000's of immigrants "minding their own business", NON-violent NON-criminals just working at car washes and restaurants, are being abducted by Masked Goons on the street and thrown into gulags... and who knows what else?
https://www.cato.org/blog/5-ice-detainees-have-violent-convictions-73-no-convictions
Why can't immigrants just immigrate legally?
Why do I have to obey tax law if noncitizens don't have to obey immigration law or tax law?
Because you’ve become a second class citizen in your own “country”.
Can’t enforce your own laws, can’t retain your own communities, but make sure to get your shots and pay your taxes to keep the machine going.
Hart celler really did a number on us. And boomers and older GenXers will cheer it on in their condescending civic nationalist tone.
My guy i hate to be the one to break it to you but noncitizens, as well as the undocumented, very much pay taxes in the US, why do you think the DHS immigration OS is partnering with the IRS, bc they like each other so much?