seems tough to provide strong guarantees around deletion, tho, no?

"Some patients may be afraid of taking opioids because they're perceived as addictive. But that is far from actual fact. Less than 1% of patients taking opioids actually get addicted."

OxyContin commercial

Urm yeah I think it's scientifically valid to question Big Pharma strongly and take everything they say with a huge pinch of salt.

I’m in the communist country right above the USA

Also!

Correct me if I'm wrong but CHATGPT scrubs the internet for writing, and can't access NOSTR so I don't have to worry about that either.

Right?

i actually don't know where the purple as the color of Nostr came from.

9TB for the wine relays.

14 TB of notes served from the damus relay in March.

I think we're both resisting just in different ways.

I take the typical cypherpunk approach: adopt decentralised tech the government can't actually control in any meaningful way, run infrastructure for it to help it grow, do so anonymously if need be, but no law will stop me from doing it. The government will quickly realise the futility of their laws as technology continues to rapidly outpace them.

You wanna take the fight to Apple and Google and show them *their* rules can also be easily bypassed.

Both are worthy battles. It's just I view the state as a far greater enemy. Apple and Google only have the strict rules they do because of laws like this to begin with. Best believe they got armies of lawyers just to carry out risk assessments.

So I feel like aiming directly at the enemy at the top and laughing as they're foiled by nerds on the internet is the most direct action and makes them look like the fools they are.

Given the legal landscape, I don't think the tech giants will change their rules because quite frankly they don't really care if they work. They just need to be able to tell the government they did their best.

Much more delight in showing up the politicians responsible for all this bullshit as the halfwits they are.

I'm in a 24/7 D/s relationship and have been for over a decade, I love my sub ❤️

Wrt implementation I'm just thinking about what would put fewest barriers in front of users. Because with these workarounds, one thing explicitly forbidden is for the company behind the app to tell you they're there, write guides on how to disable the filters, etc.

And yes, the community will figure it out, but circling round back to your point on free speech, you're putting devs in a position where they can't even publicly acknowledge the workaround without risking having their app taken down.

Meanwhile if you present it as something totally unassuming and "innocent", you can tell users how to use that option all day long and users won't have to look up guides on how to bypass a restriction by logging in using a third party tool on another device - they can just change the setting inside the app.

About those American laws, pfffft, who cares? I don't live in the US and I can host my relays in Belize on servers paid for in non-KYC BTC or XMR. I can even make them available only on the darknet if I want, and with such a strong privacy advocate userbase you can bet Tor support will be standard in Nostr clients very soon just as it already is in Bitcoin wallets.

I say again. These laws are unenforceable against a decentralised network. Even if they do manage to take a relay down, you can bet the very news of that event will cause a domino effect leading to 100 more being created an hour after the story hits the media, and with the increased awareness it'll only speed up adoption of privacy protecting technology like Tor, and indeed Nostr itself.

Decentralised networks are a hydra.

What happened when the FBI took down Silk Road? How long did it take for 10 new markets to take its place? Under a week, and setting up a DNM is way more difficult and high risk than hosting a Nostr relay.

When the RIAA successfully sued US citizens insane sums for pirating music, did it stop torrents? Or did it just encourage more people to use VPNs?

You get my point.

The only effect these ridiculous laws will have is driving social media and in particular "adult content" underground to the darknet where state government in particular will have zero power to do anything. It's a pattern we've seen time and time again.

Nerds can find new ways to bypass stupid government regulation 1000x faster than the government can pass new laws.

"We can code faster than you can regulate."

Either implementation would require changes in how the client sends out notes, the amount of effort (programming wise) is the same.

The primary benefit of the relay method however is it means clients can comply without falling afoul of Apple and Google rules. Most people use this on mobile remember.

If all relays can provide nsfw content, devs will be forced to block the nsfw event type completely.

If the feature is instead a neutral relay selector, well that's perfectly innocent...

You make a strong case wrt OF models. But then I'd also argue if you encourage pros only you narrow down your audience significantly because your relay or classifier or whatever just becomes an ad channel.

A lot of people are sick of FetLife now for exactly this reason. There's not much community element anymore. Most of the active women on there are just shilling their OF pages.

I assume it works if they keep doing it, but with Nostr you'd have to opt in to nsfw content in some shape or form. If after doing so your feed is just flooded with OF ads, I'd put it to you most people will just turn it off again.

After all Pornhub is free, Literotica is free, LLMs trained to act like kinky AI gf's are free...

Of course. My point is how to keep it from becoming one in the first place.

Currently all clients send all notes to all your relays by default. Editing your settings manually to disable all other relays is bad UX so of course people will forget or not understand they have to do it.

So even with a trust system you need something on the client side to direct certain notes only to specific relays.

Either this can be a different event code or an option in the client to specify on the note creation screen if you want it to go to all relays or just a specific one or group.

But either way you need some level of automation if you only want specific content on a relay.

I guess the other alternative would be tell everyone they must make a new key. Most clients use different relay lists for different accounts. But even this behaviour isn't universal.

A trust based system could work, Nostr Band is basically trialling exactly that. Could also be a private relay where it's easy to get in but if you spam with unrelated content you're booted out.

For this to work though, a special event type dedicated to nsfw content would be necessary, or at the very least some type of standard adopted across all clients for posting certain notes to specific relays, because you can't expect even tech savvy users to have to disable all other relays manually, it's just poor UX.

Simple to implement on a technical level but getting everyone to agree on a standard to implement across the main clients is the difficult bit.

I’d love to understand the real world use cases or user stories you are looking to add or improve support for.

It is better searchability?

It is enabling more explicit content on Nostr without impacting the current/future user base negatively?

Is it for a specific application, like only fans, or an adult Nostr network that’s opt-in? Does it have to use kind 1 short notes - or can it be a new kind?

Is it how to support adult businesses on Nostr, and benefit from lightning or tipping?

Is it to improve the client app filtering capabilities? What problem exists today specifically? What does having labels that are longer than most short note content to begin solve? How does the UX even work - especially mobile?

Global feeds will effectively become “combination of my relays feed” soon as the network splinters and grows 100X. If you connect to relays with content you don’t like (media or just personalities), try another relay and disconnect from the undesirable one. If you want explicit content, start a relay that specialises in it and ask people to join.

I think a more targeted problem statement,and an outcome you’d like to work toward is a good next step.

And to clarify.. they can use kind 1 for general content (non-explicit profile picture, non-explicit banner, likely toned down profile, etc). But as soon as it becomes offensive and blasts unwanted content into general feeds - it will be a problem. We’ve had porn blasted in general feeds and people hated it… people even stopped using Nostr altogether.

Maybe they should have two accounts. One for general use posts, and one for explicit. Or just use one, but have toned down imagery. And only post explicit content to targeted relays. Problem mostly solved.

Nostr is a Protocol to support many use cases… not a dump everything in kind 1 because I think I need to. If people care enough, apps will add support for kind 69 or whatever you propose.

Look at how OnlyFans models work currently. Their protected content goes on the OF website. But all their promos go in the general feeds of Twitter, Instagram, etc. I’m not saying there won’t be use cases where the adult industry uses something other than Kind 0, but they will need to use Kind 0 on a regular basis.

All valid points. I was thinking from a purely technical perspective as cultural norms and varying laws are way more complex issues. That's also why I use the term nsfw rather than "adult" since it's much more easily quantifiable - anything you wouldn't want your boss to see over your shoulder.

But even on a technical level, anything that relies on the honour system is gonna be abused, so you got me there.

This is a tricky one because any method relying on the user to classify their own content as nsfw or not suffers from the same weakness.

The kind problem is generic and applies to all notes.

Kind 1 will always sadly be a dumping ground for bots, automating, testing, random content, advertising, etc. Because it’s the easiest and widest audience.

If you want a dating app.. you don’t need kind 1. If you want only fans, you don’t need kind 1 - keep a non-explicit kind 1 account if you like - which is how Twitter is often used today in addition to an adult account elsewhere.

I’m not suggesting a single kind either. It depends on the use case.

Again. Separation at a relay level makes a lot of sense and makes almost all this simple and easy today without changes. Relays are dumb and easy to stand up - you are still censorship resistant with this approach. It’s not banishing the people or content. It’s just centralising the communities.

Another feature you may wish to push for is ability to select which relays to publish to. And multiple accounts in a single app. Both useful for this. This will come anyway.. but it’s valuable for what you want to achieve.

Wouldn't it make more sense to do this at the relay level? So for example when you install a Nostr client it doesn't have nsfw relays by default, so no one sees it unexpectedly and it doesn't violate App Store and Play Store policies, but add them manually and you can access nsfw content, mark a post nsfw and it's only sent to the nsfw relays.

This could be done with a new event type relays would ignore by default but admins can enable in the config.

If you want some explicit content network on Nostr - just submit a NIP with a new kind. And you can spec it however you want. It can be perfected for indexing porn content or whatever you like.

I think anything else pushed into kind 1 is overkill. Kind 1 is for short messages, not a media gallery.

** and to clarify.. “you” wasn’t used to refer to anyone specific.

A limitation today is clients not being easily able to tag a new event with a content-warning. Could be due to App Store approval concerns. I’d start understanding that first.

Personally I think in depth pre-defined tags are the wrong approach. Net nanny and FWs use them, and it’s often inaccurate (e.g. lots of false gambling flags) - it encourages opinionated blacklists. My only exception is what would normally be under NSFL - almost always watching death occur.

I see normal hashtags as being flexible enough if you want some descriptors for searching or knowing what to expect before you un-blur media content. Explicit websites seem to just list tags. And Nostr events can be tagged without hashtags in content.

We are missing an explicit key in the kind0/profile metadata today. A profile image or banned could be explicit - not just their events. I think that’s easy to add - just add content-warning to the kind0 json. An edge case is showing an event before a profile event first loaded - you could see an explicit profile icon, if the event is not tagged (if it is tagged, and profile isn’t known, it could just blur by default).

An obvious issue is also different language. Which to use in events, how to handle typos, and so on.

And as always, it’s best effort as we have no guarantee the publisher will tag or use some pre-defined list. Reporting can be abused for censorship. For open networks I advocate better client filtering tools - rather than protocol level rules.

Yea worked for me.

Nostr isn’t a product we use. Nostr is us.

While I was grilling my Valentine's Day steaks, I received a phone call from "Coinbase Support" telling me that my account had been hacked and the hacker had stolen 1.6 BTC from me. I laughed and told them I hadn't used Coinbase in years and also that I wasn't dumb enough to keep any bitcoin on an exchange. 😂