nostr needs to stop shoving bitcoin down everyones throats and just make it another subtle and useful tool in the nostr toolbox. People should feel comfortable coming to a nostr conference without being a bitcoin maxi. nostr:note1u3w3dwy57p88ecgrkgr0ujacag0jnmctltunxw0p96heu2veh8jqh9m3vw
Discussion
This will happen feels like we make this shift slowly now together ✍️ We are all aware of it and will build/create towards it 🤙
Agreed. nostr is the gateway drug. You don't need to shove Bitcoin right away.
This is my approach for bridging TikTok users to nostr. Edtech as an incentive to create decentralized identity 🤘
connects to https://robotsbuildingeducation.com
Exactly!
Probably why nostr should have integrated all types of cryptocurrencies payment options instead of just implementing lightning…
I don’t think there’s a restriction on that. Like anyone come make a client that allows for other crypto payments. That the currently slate of clients does not, theoretically, just creates an opportunity for a someone to win with a client that does…
Would I be less likely to use a crypto client - probably…but who cares, let the market speak…
Each protocol have their legitimate aims and while there is some commonality in these aims does not mean they should be seen as being married.
Expressing some independence via a change of conference venue would be a healthy step.
btw, I have personally never felt bitcoin was being too aggressively promoted on nostr.
While I understand what you're getting at I don't think any individual or group is in a position to say what nostr needs to do.
Love Bitcoin but this sounds great as I’m planning to go to the Freedom forum next year. And maybe Bitcoin in Bali!
It would also be great if more people could see the use of nostr in being able to share real time political oppression and dissident without censorship or bias kinda like how I think it was for Twitter in the early days..as subtly/unidentifiably as possible so the world can know more of what’s really going on
Well, its is just that bitcoiners value nostr value proposition more then anyone else
Nostr has no leader, though. Any movement to shove #Bitcoin down throats is naturally occurring and SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!
Yes!
Ameme to that.
So everything else is missing???
I don't believe you...
I agree ☝🏻
Should be a optional but not too dominant
INDEED.
Nostr and Bitcoin are like peanut butter and jelly. You can have one without the other but are so much better together!
Telling NOSTR what to do ? I sense a shitcoiner getting butthurt. we are here to dispense healing medicine not toxins. Shitcoins are toxic.
agreed
NOSTR is no one. To tell Nostr what to do is about as effective as saying concrete shouldn't be so hard and that it should be more considerate to those falling upon it for the first time.
You can shove some of that bitcoin down my throat
Anyone is welcome to bring a community to nostr and make it theirs just as much as Bitcoiners have. But I'm here for Bitcoin content and I'm not ashamed of that.
very much true as long as there is a way of monetizing paid relays without kyc.
a paid relay accepting xmr could work too.
I think there is a nostr client which allows for XMR zaps
There is a fork indeed, but about time more people know about XMR.
Maxis are on the crypto train because "money goes up" philosophy, whereas many others need monero because of privacy.
They have zero issues on promoting their favorite fedcoin.
One of the darker sides of #Bitcoin
People are fixated on number go up, but forget to live life. Then on their last days they are unable to enjoy what their money.
Perhaps being a ordained as a monk and living in a buddhist monastary might be the equivalent of that.
I'm usually the happiest at Vipassana when I realize I don't need much to be happy 😀
since #nostr is a protocol you can't really tell it to stop do this and that.
the user base is obviously over represented by #bitcoin'ers.
so YOU do the job and get some more NPC regular people on here and the content will change.
but to be honest, the nostr protocol and the bitcoin protocol interact in such a beautiful way through zaps and npc people even though they don't give a shit about bitcoin still will be gagd with it since it simply works and is included in alot of nostr apps.
Very good point, question is where ? Mexico perhaps.. + will need more marketing if not connected to a Bitcoin event.
Can you make a fork of Damus and filter all bitcoin talk/notes out?
So we can onboard normies
You can add only relays that block that content.
Give an algo bump to anything around the WEF talking points while you're at it
Zero normies care about Nostr.
Get your head out of your ass.
"people should fee comfortable"
- William Marx
"Bitcoiners, thanks for getting us off the ground but piss off now, will ya?"
will you may kindly GFY you degenerate shitcoiner
literally any group of people could have gotten nostr off the ground. Bitcoiners are insufferable and are only holding nostr back at this point, this is coming from a bitcoin maxi, bitcoin core and cln dev. People who are calling me a shitcoiner just because they think nostr is only for bitcoiners are retarded.
Bitcoiners happen to be the only group of people I see trying to recruit new users over here on the ole Twatter. So it's quite the conundrum I suppose.
Anytime I search or view hashtags for my other interests, they're non-existent. I make a daily sweep of 3-4 things hoping to be able to respond to someone to keep them engaged.
nostr is a publish subscribe protocol
it's purely about who is putting the money into it
who is that? opensats and jack
what do those two have in common... i'll wait
This take is so bad,
Bitcoiners took it upon themselves to join & keep this thing from dying.
What a bogus egomaniac dev take.
sadly there are a few nostr devs with borderline personality disorder but oh well, maybe y'all should not follow them and/or block them especially when they have takes like this
i see that about half my followers follow this guy, fuckin rock star, idk what y'all get from his verbiage
Gross note, bro
Is it deliberate self-sabotage, the fear of Nostr being more than a bitcoin telegram group? Is it bitcoin tourettes? I think these are habitual behaviours brought over from bitcointwitter, (further intensifiednamd incentivised, unfortunately by the zapreward mechanism). But the sloganeering and the meme repetition makes little to no sense here, less so than on twitter where they can at least pretend they are 'doing something's to promote bitcoin.
And if you mention the many many complaints about this from users who leave nostr, the response is a self-agrandising 'they are normies man, they just don't get it, they're not ready for freedom, man' blah blah blah. No, the reality is people don't want to scroll through endless sloganeering. They say as much. They want other content, or just actually funny memes, or ...anything else. A lot of the nostrism are read as spam by outsiders. And a lot of them would actually want zaps, but the price of social media boredom is too high.
This is a bitcointwitter problem, I've said all of this before I'm sure lolol, but yeah I'm not convinced a lot of people here realise that twitter is bigger than bitcointwitter. Stop building bitcointwitter clones and catering to that crowd.
Imo imo imo
Nostr is not Bitcointwitter pt. 2
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And if it is can you let me know cos I'll just leave now lol.
he's a big man, he can mute you by himself, i think technically he has no excuses why not if it bothers him that much
Only you can decide if your testosterone levels are low enough to leave.
or if the opponents do lol
i wouldn't be here if it was bitcoin twitter pt 2
but the legacy is there, and i'll call it out whenever it really gets on my nerves, like now
I have no opinion, only here for the maxis' comments. for a man needs to laugh.
I don't have any beef with maxis or non-maxis. I quite like the maxi position. I don't care about the boring sloganeering. I also don't really think it's even effective communication. People switch off. People pole their head in, see the drivel, get bored leave. Not because they're 'NPCs' but be ause they are actually interested in stuff and not a barrage of hard-sell spammy slogans ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
None of this will change lol. The bitcoin tourettes will not stop lolol. Even my stupid complaint is stupid. It's up to devs who wants to succeed to find workarounds. I can't even help them :)
always nice to get a heads up about the most toxic trolls tho (not you, the one who started your response thread
Will? 🤔 I don't think he is trolling. I think maybe understandably slightly frustrated or something? It's normal really. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ or maybe you mean someone else. I don't know what's going on half the time lol. I just pipe up with my stupid opinions lolol
idk, he seems to have a way of appearing in my feed with the most inanely dumbass shit, consistently
i automatically wasn't interested in reading much about him being the most Apple Fanatic of the dev crowd - having had a lot of early experiences with the elitism and brainwashing of that "cult"-ure since i was young (seeing a Mac Plus GUI in the flesh was a watershed for me at age 9, my first real live GUI experience) but one of my best mates is a fan and the ridiculous price and the anti-open-source attitude of the company has always put me off them, and anyone who is in love with their stuff beyond a purely technical/quality assessment of their priorities in the builds, the smooth lines, the low latency of the input/output
but seriously, always i see the same themes among them, so that was offputting
i also hated the bitcoin twitter repetitiveness, and i'm actually kinda pissed off about the neglect that the main stream of the nostr devs are giving to instant messaging, which i perceive as being crucial to actual adoption - this kind of flame fest is exactly the thing about twitter that i don't like most of all, but it's different here because my opinions don't get distorted by attention seeking algorithms, so it's actually worth articulating
and the last point is anyone who seems to be magnetised by limelight is suspect instantly for me, because these people tend to have a very big differential between their character and their presentation, they are good at persuasion because they are LIARS
so, you see, there is multiple ways that i can point to off the top of my head that scream red flags about the OP and the content they just vomited into the trending feeds of the most twitter like clients feeds
there's no frustration here, it's just psychological bullshit, attention seeking behaviour, and i've lost count of how many months since we were promised android damus, and it still isn't here, and i certainly must not leave out the last important point - i had a collision with will over programming languages too, so, not only is he a rabid apple fan, twitter fan, and narcissist, he's also a Rust fan as well
i hate to say it, but the dude is a walking party of red flags, and he only continues to reinforce this impression for me
half expecting some bullshit about socialism or transgender stuff or environmentalism as if there isn't already enough red flags around him
It sounds like someone or group rubbed him the wrong way at the conference. That's unfortunate. However, he took a hammer to the topic versus grabbing a scalpel and addressing it with a little more tact.
"Literally any group of people could have gotten nostr off the ground."
Yet Bitcoiners did. Bitcoiners are the group that donated to OpenSats and other organizations that take donations to give grants. I'm one of them.
Again, the bottom line is his outburst has likely turned off some people like myself. I've suggested Damus for months now to folks looking for nostr clients at my local Bitcoin meetups. I will no longer do so. I've made some donations to nostr projects and seeing the folks that cosigned his message... that's going to stop, too.
I don't know..people have outbursts and offdays without tact. He's not posting via a Damus pr officer consultation, nor do I think anyone here would want him to. I will reserve judgement ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Plus I don't know enough about anything going on in the wider scene, I just come here to post my silly lil posts lol
people with narcissistic tendencies show signs that are not abrasive or toxic most of the time to most people, and the "he's got a good heart" and all that kind of buying into their projection of themselves that is typical of abusive people, just that the abuse is only pulling the spotlight, not quite as damaging, but a horrible distraction that is still wasting your life as much as if it was someone telling you where you can spend your money and demanding you walk around with an ankle gps tracker because you might run away, just a lot of people a little bit, instead of a few people a lot
still toxic, and i've said this many times before, and why i was put off by will from very early on, by all the obvious red flags of narcissism
the toxic outbursts are just confirmation
and they will shred some of their swarm of fanbase at times with their outbursts but they ultimately don't really care about 10 people who quit following them if they won 100 new rage addicted fans at the same time
you are one to talk lmao
all I know is: doesnt feel much different than the chans in 2011. well, it does if you consider there were no slogans and satoshi himself was babbling bout ripplecoin. what I mean is: helpless. likewise btc adoption, nostr adoption will only happen when there's a real case use, a reason to be. in the end, people only wanna be accepted and be part of a niche, feel welcomed, the harm embrace of the group. and get likes. or zaps. a normie wouldn't get any here. just as most dazzled nostr subcelebs used to have 30 followers back on cryptotwitter itself. what I do mean is: nostr won't happen, not beyond an autistic echo chamber, anytime soon. I get the frustration, but... helpless.
furthermore: no problemo at all with maxis. I'm one myself. a baby makes me laugh. if not for terzi, I'm all here for the fun. and the aliens.
I suspect if it reached a point of Nostr as it is now or no social media. People would just be go without and be happy lol. It's like the option of being stopped in the street by a charity person and listening to them or sitting in a park under a tree in silence. Unless there was such a huge influx the drowned out the btc spam, or some other workaround readily available from the off. (Eg a client that started you off on a filtered slogan-free relay or whatever).
LOL not a chance.
99% of Normies would still be on social media even it all they were allowed to post about was photos of their breakfast.
yeah, i'm here because i need a social outlet, such as it is, this is still better than anything else
it's actually the rockstars like will and the other engagement farming cool kids repeating their slogans every day who i don't like here... who I do like is our kangaroo friend here, and that lady who posts photos of her desert surroundings a lot ( nostr:nprofile1qyghwumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnhd9hx2tcpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgtcpypmhxue69uhkzurvv93k26tww35x2um4dchxummnw3erztnrdakj7qgwwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkctcpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsqgxzxrkaxn99eqcchaze9tq9dn0rw5va89wqjpxr06suv59c4498zg4t7kpf ) and the punk af dudes like nostr:nprofile1qyv8wumn8ghj7emjda6hquewxpuxx6rpwshxxmmd9uqsuamnwvaz7tmwdaejumr0dshsz9mhwden5te0wfjkccte9cc8scmgv96zucm0d5hszxrhwden5te0wfjkccte9e5xzam5d9jhxtnc09az7qghwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxummnw3ezucnpdejz7qg4waehxw309aex2mrp0yhxgctdw4eju6t09uqzqj78nqkyaeq83v4d556q4enn7xxnk6nxfv0e06xk0x0xqaxttsuap47qun and nostr:nprofile1qy2hwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtn4w3ux7tn0dejj7qgcwaehxw309ahx7um5wfshycmgd9mx2uewvdhk6tcpr3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujucnfw33k76twwpshy6ewvdhk6tcpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhszrnhwden5te0dehhxtnvdakz7qpqutx00neqgqln72j22kej3ux7803c2k986henvvha4thuwfkper4syt0f02 - the less repetitive, less slogans, more serious questions, more interesting people in general
it's frustrating for me too because i'm involved in working stuff with nostr, and i'm stuck working on stuff that is right on the margin, and my boss fully understands the potential and it's not for nothing that he wants to keep his spoon in this pot of soup, it is going to go off at some point in the near future, once a critical mass of BUSINESS USE CASE adoption starts, and i'm glad for that because it lets me continue to sharpen up my nostr blades so when that starts, i'll be ready to edward scissorhands it
client dev priorities are wrong, twitter and bitcoin are high, chat and filtering are low
like, i like #coracle but why does it tell me about shit i have hidden wasting my pixels?
i discovered i can use ublock to remove the ones that follow after replies, but i doubt it's so simple for the one above
and i rate coracle as the best client for nostr currently, reigning champion since the beginning, and even the reason why nostr got jack's love instead of IPFS based bluesky
it's really just a matter of whose money is going to the developers, and what they want to see
there is probably hundreds of people out there watching this now who have money to put into it but are still on the fence about whether it's got a future or not, even if it has every aspect of the necessary to become a new base layer protocol for the internet
to make an analogy, it's like people looking on at Compuserv circa 1985 and thinking "yeah, but it's full of middle class university students talking about computers"
and the very unfortunate thing is that the main qualities about the existing situation are so contentious as the twitter-clone is successfully doing, except crappily because twitter is only popular because it increases that aggro so al the aggroheads are addicted to it
you can just look at my feed through most clients, to see, that indeed more than 80% of the content of my follows is nostr or homesteading or geopolitics... for me bitcoin is important but only a small number of people are ever going to be fanatics about it, and the bitcoin twitter cloning is just amplifying them
i find them all boring, jack, odell, gigi, carla, walker, all the hot hits on twitter, so fucking boring here
I personally really wouldn't mind bitcoin talk, if/when it was like actual information or conversation, or technical questions or even help with my wallet type questions or whatever. Even tho I barely understand it. I wouldn't and don't mute that. It's the crappy inherited BT culture of lame memes and slogans everyone's seen 1000 times, over and over. (I say BT specifically cos that's what's here on nostr btw, but the wider crypto twitter culture is also 99% boring af too, just to be clear).
Clients promote these bitcoinfluencers by having them in suggested follows (or even worse on primal's sidebar), and ironically it does more harm than good. Unless in fact they are just attempting to make bitcointwitter2, which I don't think they are silly enough to be doing lol. They're just playing it safe and/or catering to a crowd of BT expats maybe. Get some user retention any which way they can? (But tbf, even a lot of people on/from BT find the influencers boring).
yeah, i used to follow a few of them but i cast my net wider and explored the more populated reaches of my social graph and i barely even know there is all caps man or mister beard and septum ring on here... with nostriga on i found some more abrasive elements to remove as well
i say the key issue is that the userbase needs to be centered around marketplaces, most of all, and an easy, low hanging fruit is business collab and contact systems (slack/github style)
but 90% of the VC money on nostr is going to the BT and reddit style, because that's where the existing large userbases are, even though both platforms are absolutely riddled with antisocial toxic shit
"Stop building bitcointwitter clones" *bingo*
like the asshat who started this dumpster thread off
That sounds like they want to be locked into their content silos?
The funny thing is the second half of your statement and then another note I just read on your profile -- which I wholeheartedly agree with. When I log in, I mainly see what I'd call nostr shitposting which is also low value but gets circlejerk style zaps and engagement.
For example, here is what I've got right now:
Weird note, coming from someone developing on ICP, but okay.
i can honestly say i haven't written a line of code that actually connects to the ICP, but you can have your silly opinion if you must
will is not a bitcoin maxi
that was kinda obvious from day 1
HFSP
Most bitcoiners could care less who comes to NOSTR. We want to grow the community for the same reasons we want to grow Bitcoin.
NOSTR is part of the “freedom tech stack” and so it appeals to bitcoiners.
We shouldn’t be seen as the problem…instead, we help to keep the flame burning.
We want the whole world here…all communities.
In short, unfair generalization.
Shitcoiners should feel very uncomfortable everywhere they go.
people should feel comfortable being a bitcoin maxi
Very good point too.
Amazing how quickly people lose their cool when someone says something something and includes the words Bitcoin maxis. Half the comments to this note blew their "staying humble" down the toilet.
I’m the humblest. People say the most humble person they’ve ever met.
I wish I could like this post twice.
Thank you sir. Spot on.👏
Well said.
This is unfortunately a common theme amongst many Bitcoiners. “Stay Humble and Stack Sats” is a mirror, not a window. Staying humble can mean a lot of things, but most often it means “dude, shut the fuck up”.
It's not so much the talking about bitcoin as it is the hype. I get it, but it's almost a but overwhelming and comes across as abrasive. Posted a picture yesterday of a sunset, said it must be a good sign. Only response was "pamp btc" ...can't change people but we can point people towards spaces where they don't feel like they're getting mobbed 😂
There is an idea that people are 'talking ABOUT Bitcoin' by repeating bitcointwitter catchphrases. But that really is talking it up too much. It's just unconvincing spam and unfunny bitcointwitter in-jokes transplanted to nostr where it is even less relevant.
I understand. I was just trying to separate levels of conversation a bit because quite a few people do get into btc here.
That was one of the reasons nostr:npub15879mltlln6k8jy32k6xvagmtqx3zhsndchcey8gjyectwldk88sq5kv0n started the #grownostr was to attract his fan base to nostr and share anything that was not btc related because back then 95% was btc
Mute early, mute often, and you won't have a problem.
And Nostriches, please post the content you want to see, even if you're just grabbing it from other platforms
Not so much until we get more diverse CDM systems that aren't reliant on cloudflare or easier self-hosting methodology worked out.
I think things are improving. There is more variety now then there was a year ago. We're moving in the right direction. 💯
Nostr doesn’t need to be a Bitcoin cult meeting! Let’s keep it useful and open for everyone, not just the maxis. Freedom over dogma! 🎉🔧
I don't see these coinerds you all keep talking about, and I'm assuming that's because I curate my feed to see what I want to see? What do you guys do with nostr, I'm confused. Are you connecting to nostr through aol or something
They should, however, sign at the latest that they will become Bitcoin Maxis after the conference