Just got Alby’s email about officially ending their custodial wallet service in January. End of an era. Can’t really justify the cost of Alby Hub or running fully self-custodial just for zaps though.
Discussion
Please come home wallet of Satoshi. Please come home
21000 per month 👀
Half off for first 3 months, but then after that yea. Unless you self host everything and manage your own channels.
You only need one private channel. Nothing to manage. StartOS is free. Run on $200 worth of mini PC and SDD. 100% doable for the average pleb if you can read and follow instructions.
I just zapped you from mine and I'm a retard.
I’ve done it in the past. It’s overkill for zaps in the low amounts we send and receive here. I have no other use for an always-on lightning node.
What’s the problem/talk of people saying running Channels is a problem (for low amounts sending/receiving) etc
Please elaborate
Channel management is costly and time consuming. If it wasn’t, then the custodial services wouldn’t be going anywhere. And the problem isn’t that they want to charge, but how much they’re charging here. 21k sats a month at these prices is exorbitant. 😂🤷♂️
Yea I think I just haven’t experienced the full depth of it yet which is scary. Like say a peer closing a channel on my head and after spending X amount of Sats to open up the channel.
And yes 21k Sats a month is huge when we usually only zap so much a month. That’s also why I considered to self-host with my own server because it was too costly in the long run + having server offers many more benefits besides lightning node.
I use my lightning node for receiving income and spending sats locally or in other places that take it. orange pill your local neighborhood.
I almost get rid of all fiat currency I get right away.
We offer these other free options, quite a lot.
You can also keep using your Alby web Account ant its lightning address for free with any other wallet Alby or not Alby, that supports NWC.
-JP
If you decide going the self-custody route I would recommend a Start9 setup. It's got potential to be more than just a lightning node with other apps that are available.
That's what I'm using for albyHub.
#DIY Start9
@Start9 all day
until coinos cucked
Primal wallet ftw
So long, sats in Alby that I could never figure out how to move 🤷🏼♀️
can we help?
Hi bumi, thanks! I think the problem is I don’t have enough sats in there to move out.
Do you talk about the self-custodial Alby Hub wallet or the shared wallet?
if you have sats on the shared wallet you can move them out. how much do you have left?
If you can't move sats out is because Lightning have inbound liquidity and outbound liquidity. If you have let's say 171.000 sats and your inbound liquidity is 50.000 sats and outbound 121.000, that means you can only send 121.000 sat and receive max 50.000.
Lightning is a bit technical but when you leatn basics it's really easy especially tools like albyhub. They really make software simple enough for everyone to use.
That’s probably it, I was able to move a few sats in, but not out. Maybe at the time it’s because the fee was higher than the sats I had in… either way, I’m considering it a donation.
This how I feel about Mutiny, had 160k+ SATs in a channel, but wallet stopped working. Zero access. Goodbye 167000 SATs. Consider it a donation I guess.
Ouch 😟
you do not own the inbound liquidity.
in your example you only own 121k. and those you can always send out if that’s in one channel.
in your example you can send in a max of 50k.
or what am I misunderstanding.
To Beth or anyone else here reading, Anybody can send a message to getalby.com/help and get help from our team, Bumi besides answering here on nostr, also answers the support requests of users on the help page.
Best,
-JP
Thanks!
So easy to self host, literally a few clicks on Start9
Doesn't start9 cost $1000?
nostr:npub1getal6ykt05fsz5nqu4uld09nfj3y3qxmv8crys4aeut53unfvlqr80nfm is the era that’s ending.
by their own choice.
Nope, it's free.
I believe the price of their hosting is so expensive for a reason. This reason might be to force people to learn about selfhost. #albyHub is great and the documentation is even greater.
Take your time and learn how to do it. The resources are there and if you hit a barrier 🚧 their support team is absolutely amazing. Or simply ask nostr for guidance. There's still time.
The point of Bitcoin is self sovereignity and other stuff.
its fair.
spend your time to set up and maintain a server or have it done for you.
Click on the "advanced" button and a whole new world will open to you...
What is coinos ?
Web based lightning wallet with NWC support. Also supports sending and receiving cashu.
Yeah seems like a lot of trouble just to zap a few sats. Farewell to one tap zaps with NWC I guess. I'll just zap with Strike and tolerate the half second longer it takes to switch between apps.
21k per month makes no sense 🤷🏾♂️
Not as a consumer whose only need for it is to be able to send and receive zaps, which are 99% extremely small micropayments.
Definitely. Seems like this is priced for a business
You can run Alby Hub for free in different setups, nobody is forced to get the Alby Cloud subscription. We made all of these other free options.
-JP
Good to know. I don’t want to run a lightning node just for zaps (and risk forced closures). On a personal server or computer, it’s with a lightning node too?
Hey, Corn. Can you screenshot the email? I've been using Alby forever and I didn't get that email today. I knew this was coming but I'd like to be able to put the email on the podcast and talk about what's going on. If you don't mind, that is.
Thanks, Corn.
Hey, I guess you will also get the info. We're compiling some more details because we actually also have some quite nice new improvements for people to get started.
And we think the Alby Hub is the best way forward to put the user in control.
I found the Family & Friends app in the Alby Store and now my wife has a hosted wallet on my Start9.
Under one minute to set her up and send her some starter sats. I'll do my Kids today after scool.
I'm going to talk about this on today's podcast. I think people aren't quite understanding what's happening here.
yeah, that's awesome to here! this is what we're building it for. And we think this is super powerful. We also have podcast collectives that share an Alby Hub together.
And all that on any system that the user controls. From Start9 to some Pi or some cloud server (or Alby's cloud option ;)
Let me know if you have questions, I am happy to help.
This is a big learning from us and we have to get better in explaining these changes and improvements.
Almost nobody I've seen talking about the Alby changes understands what's going on, and how positive of a move it is.
I'm just going to throw this out there, but what if I setup an LNBits account on my node for you? There obviously would be a level of trust you'd have to put in me not rugging you
You can't justify running a node? Very shortsighted statement.
You can't justify owning your own bank and payment processor on your own computer? You can't make back the equivalent of a couple hundred bucks in zaps over the next 5 years?
The lack of vision in this kind of thinking really boggles my mind. Just build a node, it's the correct move.
I'm using Coinos and Zeus Wallet.
Lightning nodes shall be run by real merchants selling on #nostr bazar .. I think #Alby hub is that usecase ..
The current state is just an experiment..
Self-custodial.
Easy channel management, and inbound channels are currently cheap.
The LN address does take a cut, but at least it's self-custodial.
Custodial solutions are increasingly expensive, in more ways than just one.
Are you terminating the service or they terminated yours?
They are ending their self custody wallet service in January, and lowering limits in the meantime. This email started going out today.
So if I have Alby Hub up and running, I don't need to pay?
https://nostter.app/nevent1qqs07m7qdqhzlmpfy5xy47stm4p07la0tvm9dqldctynx8gdd0mdveq8wyjn2
Why can’t you justify self-hosting AlbyHub on an old spare machine at home? It’s really easy to set up, it’s free and it just works.
Serious question. Would you recommend this if the power goes out somewhat frequently?Forced liquidation because of channel closure is what worries me.
You what? I think that with the current implementation power outages wouldn’t trigger a channel closure. If I understand correctly how AlbyHub works, there’s a piece of software that you host that communicates with the actual node, which Alby operates. I may be wrong but that’s my understanding.
In any case, power outages would mean that you can’t receive or send payments until your machine comes back up.
There’s always the option of hosting it on a small VPS to make sure it’s always on.
Thanks!
My compromise to preserve self custody:
Oracle Cloud offers "Free Tier Forever" hosting up to four VPS instances with Ampere CPUs(aarch64), up to 24Gb of Ram in total and 200Gb of storage total.
One of my instances (one cpu + 1Gb RAM + 50Gb) runs both HAVEN (private nostr relay) and Albyhub.
Once set up, it's painlessly forgettable. But running Albyhub on any flavour of Pi or old PC is also painless and the sovereign way.
Exchanging a FIAT system for a BTC one whilst delegating responsibility to third parties, even pocket sats, will continue to result in zeros for everyone.
Oracle is free after paying 300$ / 330000 sat 😅
Negative! I've used them for years and never paid them a cent... EVER! Read the terms and conditions.
are you talking about this
It's seems clear no ?
First step paid and after you're free
thanks for confirming
I tried this https://console.cloud.google.com/
No mate. You do not pay anything. You get "$300 credit" to test out any function you wish on their cloud services for one month, including the Free Tier. Make sure you know what CPU's, RAM and storage are 'Free Tier' before you use them.
It's akin to the old restaurant trick of putting bread in front of you. If you eat it, they reserve the right to charge, even though the majority give it out for free.
Youtube "oracle free tier". No lack of tutorials about how to set up Ubuntu instances and avoiding charges, specially making your own website hosting Hestia and/or Wordpress.
For years I've run my own website and a WebRTC server. For the past few months HAVEN and Albyhub. Again, for no charge.
Running a VPS on a cloud is like using Ecash or Liquid, the service provider can cut you out at any moment. The sovereignty of BTC only can exist on-chain, so that would be akin to running a baremetal server at home. Even then, your internet service can be censored from you, same result.
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm. There will always be reactive forces conspiring against your will. Never be dissuaded by such forces.
In my case, not owning or living in a house, this is the best compromise for having self-custodial pocket sats.
What does this mean for extension users???
I haven't gotten said email and I do worry since it's what I use for nostr....
😬😬😬
I don’t think this has any impact on being able to use the browser extension for nostr, other than the wallet function now needing a node/albyhub if you need that feature.
Trying to figure out Zeus
alby hub is great.
as long as that 21k sats goes towards their product development I'm OK with that.
plus self custody has its price.
its a great product and I don't mind because cloud solutions are better. Pis are horrible for servers and not really nomad friendly
Thanks for the tip
I love Alby and I think their browser extension in the single most awesome and useful Lightning thing ever created. Having said that, I do think having to pay to be non-custodial (whether via Alby cloud service or your own node), is a total non-starter for 95% of users, and is of course a large reason why lightning has struggled in general.
Additionally, the thing that lightning is best at currently is SMALL payments, which honestly most people don't need non-custodial when it is for small amounts.
Non-custodial is for my cold wallet. I don't mind having some sums in custodial things, so long as they are very convenient and cheap to use.
I'd have happily paid a 500-1000 sats every month to use alby custodially, and I hope they considered that, but guessing it's not possible from a legal standpoint in many jurisdictions.
nostr:npub1getal6ykt05fsz5nqu4uld09nfj3y3qxmv8crys4aeut53unfvlqr80nfm
You can run Alby Hub for free in different setups, nobody is forced to get the Alby Cloud subscription. We made all of these other free options. Also thanks for the feedback about being willing to pay a small fee for other options, but that is simply out of the roadmap for the time being, you are welcome to write the proposal in our feedback forum at https://feedback.getalby.com/ , who knows what the future holds. Thanks!
Best,
-JP
Yea I know it's free thats why I mentioned "whether via Alby cloud service or your own node". Running own node is also an expense.
I will continue to use Alby irregardless but was just giving my thoughts on the 98% of non-technical, less fee tolerant audience.
I appreciate Alby’s push to make self custodial easier but I feel that they are refusing to acknowledge that they’re leaving a lot of their core user base behind with this move. It irks me that they do not even want to acknowledge it. Custodial services have a place and for most people it serves what they need. As it stands, most nostr users will simply move to other custodians, or use cashu wallets which are still custodial and are even less proven and reliable than Lightning.
Most Cashu wallets are already really solid, not sure what you mean by less reliable
what do you want us to do?
They sure have a place. and it might be OK to rely on others.
We just think that the user should be in control and we just cannot offer it.
We’ve learned a lot over the time and the tech got so much better that this is now feasible. So we focus our resources on what is the best future.
and btw. I also think it’s a bit like Nostr and Mastodon and X.
On Nostr I personally think we should care about self-sovereignty.
The reality is that humans always have and always will rely on each other. Alby had an amazing product/service that many relied on because it was reliable. You’ve decided to completely shut that product/service down. That’s your prerogative. Now you have launched a new product that is no doubt equally amazing, but for a much different and more niche market segment and user base. Again that’s your prerogative. But the attitude I’ve encountered from you and others on your team is that you are dismissive of this market segment. Well, I appreciate what your team has done, it’s a bit offputting.
yes, it’s sad, but we just can’t offer it on scale as we wish and I also think people should be in control and that this leads to better solutions long term.
we know some will not be happy, and trust me that’s hard for us.
We have also put a lot of work in the options in communities, and friends, and families share a hub for example.
I respect the work you and the Alby team have done, and building easier self custody tools is great. It’s just a major shift in what Alby has been, and for me it doesn’t provide what I need. Many users already went through this in the US when Wallet of Satoshi pulled out, and Alby was a reliable and stable alternative that filled that gap. Now that gap has been reopened and most of the users like me, who don’t need to run our own LN node and can’t justify the expense for the cloud service, we will simply leave Alby. It doesn’t matter how good the new product is, or how dedicated your team is, because while it is admirable it simply doesn’t fit our need. You’ve lost customers because of this.
let’s blame the US ;)
yes, we know. we have to focus on what we can do and are able to provide.
I hope you find a good solution for you and maybe some people will run a hub together.
Shouldn’t Cashu/Fedimint be able to fill the gap of custodial lightning with the added benefit of privacy?
I love Alby and have used it for zaps and small payments. I don’t mind custodial wallets for these types of transactions. Since the custodial version is closing down, I started using Wallet of Satoshi again for #nostr
an btw. we tried cashu, too. and it’s a option in the Alby Hub. Did you try it?
sadly cashu APIs lack some features .
You hit the nail on the head with everything you said.
it’s simply impossible to offer it on scale to a global audience at this point.
especially not for a small team that actually builds open source software.
software and open source money is the solution.
#MeToo 
My sentiment exactly
I had to watch an hour tutorial to try to understand the benefit of having Alby Hub, my conclusion is that #Alby is doing the right thing but the end solution is over complicated, and for people with little sats (less than 50K), it is not worth it ... a custodial wallet is just fine.
That means #coinos, #walletofsatoshi or the default #primal wallet are going to see a massive arrival of new adopters ...
We offer free Group Onboarding sessions to the Alby Hub and tell you everything you need to know in an interactive/workshop way in small groups of 8 people at most, and under 35mins. Book your free group session here:
https://cal.com/getalby/alby-hub-onboarding
Best,
JP
I am only 5000 sats from running my own hub.... Can't get zaps till I do it. lol
For my purpose, Getting an Oil field up and running I really don't need lightning I need actual bitcoin.
Yup yup.
Noob tip: You can link your coinos wallet to Alby for native zapping in #Amethyst via nwc.