I often don’t understand what Will says at all. I understood that though.

$20/ month is expensive imo. Is that the future?

The outbox model really is the key.

LNBITS with nostrrelay at $5/month or less. plus super light CLN + trustedcoin you wrote

come on, not $20/month

I have lots of trouble using Primal nostr and I think it has something to do with the relays. It will randomly refuse to load for a period of time, in full or part, it will randomly forget mute lists, I am getting anon payment requests from 'relays...'

It's just a frequently frustrating mess, and I don't think his response is nearly serious or in-depth enough.

Everyone must do their part

nostr:nevent1qqsxstdgkge3k9mtezv4z4lpp88p3lnqta9k0k6n8hex0a4zv62pdmqppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qgsrhuxx8l9ex335q7he0f09aej04zpazpl0ne2cgukyawd24mayt8grqsqqqqqpv20xlh

Best link on learning how to run a nostr relay on one's computer?

Thanks nostr:nprofile1qqswuyd9ml6qcxd92h6pleptfrcqucvvjy39vg4wx7mv9wm8kakyujgpypmhxue69uhkx6r0wf6hxtndd94k2erfd3nk2u3wvdhk6w35xs6z7qgwwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkctcpypmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuetfde6kuer6wasku7nfvuh8xurpvdjj7a0nq40 for fixing nostr

Make a one click installation on a VPS and this problem is solved. Cost nothing to rent a relay hosting service

Didnt Samson say it had to be big relays

The explanation seems packed into the “outbox model” phrase which I’m not familiar with.

In-app marketplace for media bloom servers, relays, shop profiles and etc I think would also help a lot for determining what services are desired, where and how.

Thinking about this post by nostr:npub180cvv07tjdrrgpa0j7j7tmnyl2yr6yr7l8j4s3evf6u64th6gkwsyjh6w6 about the cost of #NOSTR relays.

Relays are web sockets, a server and a client. Web sockets over #NOSTR should be cheap, because notes are broadcast, and when broadcasting notes, sockets are very efficient.

Let's say nostr:npub1sg6plzptd64u62a878hep2kev88swjh3tw00gjsfl8f237lmu63q0uf63m posts a note to a relay, that relay can BROADCAST that identical note to all it's clients who subscribe to Jack as opposed to sending differing data to all it's clients.

To estimate the potential savings, let's consider a scenario where a web socket server sends 1 KB of data to 100 clients.

Same data to all clients:

Memory: 1 KB (a single copy of the data)

CPU: 1-10% CPU usage (depending on the broadcasting implementation)

Network: 1 KB (a single packet sent to all clients)

Different data to each client:

Memory: 100 KB (100 separate copies of the data)

CPU: 10-100% CPU usage (depending on the packetization and sending implementation)

Network: 100 KB (100 separate packets sent to each client)

In this example, sending the same data to all clients can result in:

99% memory savings (1 KB vs. 100 KB)

90-99% CPU savings (1-10% vs. 10-100% CPU usage)

99% network savings (1 KB vs. 100 KB)

Keep in mind that these estimates are rough, but it makes the point that #NOSTR nodes should be very efficient, and thus relatively cheap in a competitive environment.

nostr:note1dqk63v3nrvtkhjye29t7zzwwrrlxqh6tvld4x00jvlm2ye55zmkqmumahc

This video isn’t convincing me at 100%. I worry about the storage capacity of the network. We know social medias generate a shit ton of data. I get the horizontal scaling but this is gonna take a lot of relays. It’s also gonna require clients to be capable of connecting and holding to a lot of relays simultaneously.

Some options I’ve heard is too use Archive Nodes which I think is a great idea.

damn. you took your diplomacy pills today. 💊👍

You nailed it, the complaints come and will continue to come from confused n misinformed individuals..

Just look at this reply section right now 😂

SOMEBODY EXPLAIN THIS OUTBOX MODEL PLEASEEE!

Many who build an application on NOSTR, will have an economic incentive to host relays. With lightning, many people may get into the business of hosting relays just like BTC miners take fees for transactions, and the computing power would be FAR less expensive. This area is very interesting to say the least.

I don't know if it a valid complaint but my main problem with this answer is that a computer dork looks like a sexy and buff movie star and seeing that makes me not want to leave my house ever again.

IIUC it'll be up to clients to intelligently pull from the relevant relays in an outbox model?

Won't this make generating a feed very difficult? I'm assuming we'll need indexers or something for clients to be able to serve a feed to users in a reasonable time frame.

nostr:note10dkggtezgrzg6mtd7gmgrhcxg6qjax2vsjsfsp7hmw6r39a0vypq0egfjw

What is this "outbox model"?

Well, well , well. Look familiar ? Bittorrent's bleep. It died , I think because the feds took over the bittorrent company and then killed off this idea. Probably too much if a threat ? There may be open source forks out there ?

"With BitTorrent Chat, there aren't any "usernames" per se. You don't login in the classic sense. Instead, your identity is a cryptographic key pair. To everyone on the BitTorrent Chat network at large, you ARE your public key. This means that, if you want, you can use Chat without telling anyone who you are. Two users only need to exchange each other's public keys to be able to chat. "

https://engineering.bittorrent.com/2013/12/19/update-on-bittorrent-chat/

I think this is not a complaint though I sometimes wonder if something like zap split or V4V model x pay-as-you-go model will eventually come to certain relays. Say, everybody always has some sats in wallet to post and some amount of sats automatically get splitted to a relay that has LN address when a certain 'kind' threshold is exceeded against a relay. The key is relay runners can decide how to run relays of course and to not force people to pay sats to use relays, keeping it opt-in.

it does help, having one of the biggest clients with the biggest relay endorse outbox while still not having implemented it yet.

its raising the bar for clients, i get it takes time, is harder to implement, and im very patient, but i will not shut up about it. Cause i was promised a nostr where "if you dont like it run your own relay". any clients still not doing outbox, are dangerous to the network and the idea of freedom on nostr.

also, speech is more ephemeral and not a ledger so some loss of data is not the end of the world.

Makes sense to me.

Also: if illegal torrents work and scale, how couldn´t Nostr work and scale as well?

How can I find the best relay to load updated events from a npub? I can find a relay with nip5, and with nprofile, but how I do that if I have just npub? Should I search for 1002 kind where? Adopt a default cache relay like primal? #asknostr

This, and also to have every client be a relay as well, for the current user that's using it + their X level of WoT with Y limit.

Damus has or is working on something like this (Not sure if they're doing WoT for it)

nostr:note1dqk63v3nrvtkhjye29t7zzwwrrlxqh6tvld4x00jvlm2ye55zmkqmumahc

Ge nostr

nostr:nevent1qqsxstdgkge3k9mtezv4z4lpp88p3lnqta9k0k6n8hex0a4zv62pdmqprfmhxue69uhhq7tjv9kkjepwve5kzar2v9nzucm0d5hsygpm7rrrljungc6q0tuh5hj7ue863q73qlheu4vywtzwhx42a7j9n5psgqqqqqqscgukpm

Wow you are handsome

"NOSTR haters" are basically peddlers of desperate BS, trying to keep us tethered to the centralized SV-based platforms that have done us so wrong. And whose followers, I might add, are extremely dubious people -- not "entrepreneurs" as was always claimed, but likely assets of the state, or even worse, foreign governments or international crime networks. Decentralized social media threatens the surveillance, grifting and brainwashing apparatus they have so carefully built. The only value these platforms have (to their end users that is) is their network. We should be using their services to poach people to places like Nostr.

No lies detected.

Insightful, thanks!

nostr:note1dqk63v3nrvtkhjye29t7zzwwrrlxqh6tvld4x00jvlm2ye55zmkqmumahc

Most nostr haters have economically failed themselves 🤣

I think a lot of the commentary comes from folk who have already discounted nostr, and need reasons to keep not looking at it.

I'm not a tech guy, but hearing this might look like you are saying that the Web is starting to be rebuilt on stonger foundation than 30 years ago.

Like I listened to a podcast with Jack explaining that what once screwed up the legacy web was the discoverability issue leading to Google&Co

So are you basically saying that nostr fixes this? Seems to good to be true, this why their are still lots of nostr sceptics/hate IMO

How many devices are left on at home for the convenience of the "just in case"? It's all about what we value. Running a relay for free is doubtfully more expensive than these expensive rarely used electrical commodities we have on standby.

A one click solution would be ideal. Make it easy to run a relay and more people will do it.

Who will run the relays?

All of us.

nostr:nevent1qqsxstdgkge3k9mtezv4z4lpp88p3lnqta9k0k6n8hex0a4zv62pdmqpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsygpm7rrrljungc6q0tuh5hj7ue863q73qlheu4vywtzwhx42a7j9n5psgqqqqqqsal33r2

Daddy nostr:npub1xtscya34g58tk0z605fvr788k263gsu6cy9x0mhnm87echrgufzsevkk5s 👅 you remind me of my Canadian doctor ex boyfriend 🤷‍♀️ sorry for the joke, don’t tell your wife or nostr:npub1sg6plzptd64u62a878hep2kev88swjh3tw00gjsfl8f237lmu63q0uf63m

And the micropayments can help monetize

nostr:nevent1qqsxstdgkge3k9mtezv4z4lpp88p3lnqta9k0k6n8hex0a4zv62pdmqprpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuendwsh8w6t69e3xj730qgsrhuxx8l9ex335q7he0f09aej04zpazpl0ne2cgukyawd24mayt8grqsqqqqqpmpc633

I'm running a public relay while i run my bitcoin and lightning node and also cashu mint

All this isnt about money

What is the outbox model?

I run two relay servers which only Japanese can join, but they can be operated with free of charge. However, it would probably cost more than $20-$30 to make them available to the rest of the world wide.

One common complaint we hear from Nostr haters is that there is no economic incentive to run relays or that the network will be centralized in a few central big relays. These claims often come from confusion or misunderstandings.

I think this 40s video will clear all the matters and answer all the criticisms: https://cdn.satellite.earth/8e48f90f4889d6d8def300e9d843b9b353375426212f6b6253a8ee6aaaefcf07.mp4

If anyone doesn't understand or has a problem with this answer, please, I would like to hear it.

nostr:npub192klhzk86sav5mgkfmveyjq50ygqfqnfvq0lvr2yv0zdtvatlhxskg43u7 zapped ⚡️50,000 sats

nostr:note1dqk63v3nrvtkhjye29t7zzwwrrlxqh6tvld4x00jvlm2ye55zmkqmumahc

Aren’t people running relays to store their own data? Apparently the free relays are still growing. Seems to be mostly the app developers running the relays