Many libertarians are closet conservatives. They pretend to be socially and fiscally open, but in practice they aggressively simp for social conservative dictators when given the chance. Their entire vibe changes and becomes more obviously conservative sometimes after lost elections.
That's a reason why they have limited support to begin with; a lot of people that might otherwise support their views kind of sense this vibe ahead of time and then it indeed plays out in practice.
It's crazy I've seen a lot of these types on nostr (unfortunately).
nostr is full of them. it’s unfortunate.
I would say closet facists. No one is less libertarian than a libertarian who just became cozy with a dictator. Benevolent or otherwise.
You can be conservative and libertarian. Right libertarian vs. left libertarian. Ayn Rand vs. Noam chomsky. That’s ideologically consistent.
Libertarianism today just means statist-lite; which frankly gives one the worse aspects of statism. In many ways it is like an inversion of the concept of minarchism.
If one truly believes in the principles of traditional classical liberalism, they will inevitably end up as an anarchist, as the state simply cannot respect individual rights or their autonomy.
I think it’s more multi-dimensional than that.
Some people want small government but recognize the state for basic order, eg minarchist. Others advocate for small government but then suddenly jump ship into big government if it comes in the way they want it.
I think that last part of what you said rings true. As soon as some people feel like, "well if the government is enforcing stuff along my cultural lines then it's okay" - when they should resist the urge to give them such authority - even if it plays in their favor
Libertarianism today are just people rooting for the Mexican Invasion of United States.
One Race Human Race ! We all bleed red ! Borders be staytis an shiet !
For many being a libertarian today is akin to claiming to be an independent or not voting down the ticket. One sees the nastiness of the blues and reds and socially doesnt want to be seen that way. Even though, when it comes time to vote or take action, they make the "lesser of evils" argument and go with with big govt.
It all starts with rules without rulers. And must be protected so it stays that way by the same group of individuals with the same moral values respecting freedom over (sense of) security.
No elite, no monopoly on violence, no "healthcare" facade, real education, respect for personal property, free market capitalism to name a few. And yes, we will build the roads.
Pretty much described the whole South American libertarian scene.
Milei seems to be pretty solid. Identifies and attacks collectivism
He's a Davos puppet. You think his speech wasnt vetted?
in fact you look at the body language on schwabb and actually he's really keen on javier... like they were in the bedroom or something lol
He got an invite for a global audience for a reason. Recall the theme of the conference this year was "Rebuilding Trust'. Its not about trusting the WEF/Davos crowd per se. Its about putting puppets out there to pull back those who are leaving the uniparty plantation. Also recall, Klaus singled out libertarians (and by association, anarchists) as being a threat to the system a few months ago. I don't know what's in Milei's heart, but it really don't matter as he is being used for something either way. And that something isn't for our benefit
Content of his speech was solid. Will judge him based on his actions and speeches.
You think it wasnt vetted and approved by his bosses? Ffs how can anyone think that was organic? The speech wasnt even the real speech. He spoke in Spanish. Its was translated and video manipulated in real time. It was 100% staged to 'Rebuild Trust'
https://www.thenationalnews.com/business/technology/2024/01/26/ai-javier-milei-speech-davos-wef/
never be fooled by the two hands of manipulation, one is always appealing to part of the population the other, to another, and in both narratives the facts that show it's a unity are left out
millei is what you call controlled opposition, and the "embrace" of him is what is known as a "limited hangout" - damage control to weaken the rage of those who are suffering
I chose decentralisation! freedom for myself and others ..
Feels appropriate to bring this out 
There is some truth to this no doubt. Libertarianism is pretty rad till you realize it champions a radically truncated form of freedom that has real world negative consequences. This becomes particularly acute when you have kids.
You’re missing the line ”gets canceled” that connects liberals and conservatives back to libertarian.
Also the wild card decision point “party in power” which if “mine” pushes some people back into their camp of bias, but if “not mine” could lead back both to the libertarian camp.
Valid additions
It doesn’t help that the US Republican Party has latched onto a handful of traditionally libertarian/liberal talking points (gun law, taxes, etc) to project an image of fighting for “your American freedoms”, while continuously promoting freedom-restricting policy and rhetoric
Perhaps not what you meant but I consider myself a conservative libertarian. I think anarcho-capitalism is the fullest expression of the common law - holding everyone to the same legal and moral standard.
In an anarchist society the "law" will be basically a common law with private courts competing for costumers
Who are we talking? I didnt know libertarians won meaningful state or federal elections.
the irony is Libertarianism is the same as Socialism - both can work perfectly fine in a society of pre-selected individuals but also both advocate for unrestricted 3rd world mass immigration.
Libertarianism will work after we expel all Jews and Nonwhites, ban religion, sterilize everybody with IQ below 100 or criminal record and apply death penalty to anybody who fails to thrive.
Same for Socialism.
National Socialism.
Demographics is Destiny.
The socialists in Europe are all about immigration.
"libertarianism... Expel..." sounds like your too retardes to grasp the NAP
the second word in my note was "irony" maybe you should google what that means.
also being a victim to an ideological trap is not something people in my circle would be proud of.
that said never speak to me again - talk to your fellow mid-wits.
💯
This!
Javier Millei I think is a very pure libertarian along with Buklele. For the US I don’t know, but RFK comes close.
rfk is about as far away from libertarian as you can get.
If you think rdk is a libertarian you're retarded. Dude is advocating heavy intervention in the Israel war.
Milei is playing a role.
And people keep falling for it
Every single time. When the people need a hero, one will be supplied...
💯
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No surprise svetski is a closet state cuck.
I think he came out as fan of monarchy some time ago.
Now stop being a dork and celebrate. We're winning! 😂
Yea I think that may be why I stopped listening to anything he has to say. Tired of all the fake libertarians and anarchists who decided a strong state is the proper response to what happened with the scamdemic and worse, talk down to real libertarians and anarchists and blame us for all sorts of shit that the state and sheeple voters are responsible for.
Yep. It's becoming pretty clear that the state will endure for the foreseeable future, since even bitcoiners (who are supposedly, on average, more anti state the general population) turn out to be statist cucks as soon as a representative of the state says something positive about bitcoin or says he/she supports capital punishment for [insert a group of people they despise]
Oh I have no delusions about the state remaining. But I sure as hell aint supporting it in any way that I can avoid.
Yes
People offend my ideology by pretending to believe in my ideology while they bang the other ideology as their sidechick. Who has time for this tiresome bullshit. People have one life and just want to be free of the ideogues who want to jam life's square objectivity into their tiresome round hole.
I mean, am I the only one who doesn't really give a shit about the intellectual DNA of some systemic human configuration, as long as it doesn't kill people en masse and requre them to ignore reality?
It's because they both have a strong appreciation for private property.
You have to hold a leftists hand through the private property thing.
#facts
boom
It’s the exact same with ancaps, all free market till you put spam on their network 🤣
From ancap point of view you don't have right on property of others. So if you want for example post on nostr relay operated by ancap, he can blacklist you because he don 't wan't provide you his disk space. On truly free market you can't force other to providing you service when they don't want.
Also i can set my client to ignore your post, because it's my client and i can do what i want with it.
I also can tel other that you are bad person so they need to ignore you. It's their decision of they do it.
Only case when it's not free market is, when somebody want use state power to stop your spaming. So do you have exmple when ancap used state power to stop spam?
To everything you said, i agree. Not state power, consensus power. Power being an overall incorrect term but I’ll roll with it. Many bitcoiners bitch about inscriptions on the bitcoin network ‘forcing me to store their data on my node’ all while within consensus rules they agreed to. Technically not ‘their network’ and their argument is purely narrative, but that is literally my point to their principles. Not to say all do, but a number do and it stands out.
Key word 'their' implying ownership. They are free to do what they want with is what is theirs.
💯!!! Calling out conflation of bitcoin’s ability to provide free market rails and people thinking their agreement to consensus means it’s suddenly belongs to them enough to tell others how to virtuously act with it while claiming any form anarchism.
Yea I would expand on Lyn's original comment to be many libertarians and anarchists are really just collectivists of various stripes. They are just rightly disillusioned with the uniparty, and latch on to something that hits some of their beliefs but not being philosophically grounded, always get hyper tribal and run back to Daddy Gov when shit gets tough or whenever some politician tickles their fancy (see the Milei and Vivek slob fest for what I mean).
Exactly. It’s understandable and unfortunate but definitely a better to and fro than what normies see as a to/fro between left and right versions of statism.
One of my favorite memes. Kinda fitting for the topic😂😎
Love it!
I had long said half joking half serious that anyone not an anarchist is a communist to some degree. Then came across this about a year ago. It was perfect
More or less, yeah. And at that level you’re left with ancap or agorist, if not pure anarchist - any of which takes more marshaling of personal responsibility than most would prefer, instead opting for society carrying them. Entropy is a bitch.
Anarchy is disentropic, both voluntaristic anarchy and violent anarchy.
I comment something similar days ago
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Everyone likes their brand of facism
Part of it might be that the factions without power, control, influence are the ones more likely to demand fair play, free speech, rights (incl right to protest).
Once in power and control, and therefore having your opponents in the weaker position, it's suddenly less of a priority and the now weaker faction will start demanding rights and protections.
The older I get the more convinced I am that coercion, in any direction, is the fundamentally dehumanizing social force.
Libertarians without bitcoin can get nowhere. Bitcoin changes everything, including showing who the true libertarians are.
I would think librarians dress conservative but politically they may actually lean more liberal due to hanging out with books
Social liberalism is generally decadent degenerate civilization-destroying filth.
Yet being against or in favor of particular dictators is old-fashioned fiat thinking. There's no such thing as a dictator in a small like-minded homogeneous society.
This is so common that I am constantly accused of being a closet conservative over it. Most of any political discussion I get in is me tearing down secretly conservative straw men erected in my place.
The idea that you might feel strongly about politics and strongly oppose both parties in america is totally incomprehensible to most. Once they get it, "oh, so you throw your vote away which helps the team I hate win"
Please stop pretending that there is any ideological dimension to this that is relevant. We don't cheer for any political direction or any specific person. We just support anyone that slaps your sick, indepted and dying empire around. Be it some neo tsarist, a Muslim theocracy or a socialist dictatorship. Your antiquated left/right (war vs. war with somebody else) paradigm counts only in the safe space called the west and looses meaning outside it's borders.
I'm always suspicious of "libertarians" that talk about other countries fist before they talk about freedom in their own communities. It makes me think they're cowards who think they can atone for the sins being committed in their own countries by sending someone abroad to do their dirty work while they can sit on their couches.
agreed. I am hopeful though that many Bitcoiners hang in with their roots.
Coopted term from left, now usually used by neoliberalism, far from it's revolutionary roots "liberté, égalité, fraternity"
Liberty without equality is toast without butter
Yeah, a lot of bitcoin podcasters just randomly decide to talk about religion (specifically christianity) and how important it is, and I'm just not getting it.
Many libertarians are socially conservative in their private lives. The more overtly insane western society becomes in the leftward direction the more even mildly socially conservative people feel threatened and the more defensive they become, and when pushed enough many resort to offense as the last defense. Perfectly rational.
Perfectly understandable human reaction, but still an abandonment of libertarian values. If libertarians want to be conservative in there personal lives, that's fine, but if they try to force that on others, they are not enacting libertarian values in that instance. The whole point is that so long as they don't violate other people's rights, people should be able to live as they see fit, and should accept the natural consequences of their life choices, whatever they may be. If you want to live a traditional lifestyle, cool, good luck with that. If you want to live an experimental lifestyle, cool, good luck with that.
Techno anarchist
Crypto anarchist
Bitcoin archist is the way
I like spaghetti🤷🏽
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