Here me out, the major toxic voting incentives can be fixed very easily:
If you receive a subsidy, welfare, handout from the govt of any kind, you automatically lose the right to vote. In no world does it make sense for people who receive benefit to get to vote for those who pay for it to have a greater, coerced obligation to them.
"That's racist" - checkmate to a Democrat
Democracies were better when they had active citizen and passive citizen categories
What about tax breaks
Different story, the money belongs to the people, they should keep it. And it means that the winner is the one who lets the most people keep the most of their money from a simple incentives picture. Thats exactly what we want
I think this type of thinking only has a chance at working with flat tax across the board. Otherwise people are still voting themselves money/power relative to others. It’s complex.
But also what do you do about veterans injured in war? Accidents in the workplace? People intending to do “good” for their country now end up with no right to vote?
You take it too far and you lose the loyalty of your soldiers and your workers.
Bruh, that will disqualify my entire country, from top to bottom.
We'd be left with a few ideologically motivated hermits, and a bunch of fugitive prison escapees.
I'd watch that reality TV show!
Democracy is the last step before tyranny
I’ve thought the same thing as long as I can remember, but such a change would require, you guessed it, a vote. There’s no way the entitlement class will vote away their own handouts. The best solution for people like us is to extract everything we can from the system and contribute as little as possible via the tax system. Let the state collapse under its own weight.
That's practically everyone!
If you focus on things you do and use around you in your life, practically everything involves some government subsidies funded coercively by looting a minority - from "public " primary to highest education you and your children receive to the roads, airways and waterways you use, to many if not most businesses.
Your gangsterment created those subsidies to buy majority of votes. You won't change that!đź’Ż
For #Americans - and partially in modified form for us in the "democratic" " rest of the world" - the most practical approach I've heard so far is:
The Quash: What can we doooo Legalman?
Incentives shape outcomes. If votes can be bought with benefits, democracy turns into a bidding war….not a republic.
I like this a lot, but unless you make it really clear what it means to benefit, you’ll run into people saying “but you drive on the roads, etc. so that’s a benefit.”
Though the ultimate goal is literally no one can vote, you’re proposing an intermediate step, so it would have to be an intermediate measure.
I’d be happy if this even applied to strictly monetary benefits.
I think it would be beautiful to see this apply to the board of directors of corporations that are subsidized…
Yes….Once you can buy votes with government checks, you’re not in a republic….you’re in decline.
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Unpopular take:
The person having to clean adult diapers... the person cleaning toilets... working full time jobs with mouths to feed at home and their multiple jobs not offering them decent salaries nor benefits so they must get ACA cuz health insurance is more expensive than a sugar baby whore...
They too shouldn't get to vote?
Asking for a fren.
No.
They absolutely should not have a vote.
If they’re incapable of making their life better their vote will make everyone else’s life worse.
Repeal the 19th amendment and so many problems will get fixed people wouldn’t believe it
No they should'nt
Only land owners and people that are net tax contributor should vote
After nationalizing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and providing stimulus, I am unsure how many people could vote.
The less parasites voting the better.
YES! Net Taxpayer and/or Landowner model for the Republic. Think Founding fathers, minus the obvious pitfalls of that time.
You can't lose a right without committing a crime, so how would you justify that legal or philosophically
Voting yourself stuff isn’t a right because someone else pays for it. And you wouldn’t be losing it, you would be agreeing under simple contractual terms, that if you receive these funds, you give up your vote in the next election. (Or similar)
This could be abused instantly by forcing people you don’t want voting to take handouts (or even just incentivizing them).
How would you force someone to receive handouts? This works specifically because you sign over the choice to vote during the receiving of the benefit.
The incentives are 1000x better aligned than the current cluster fuck we have. There’s no possible way it could be worse than people voting themselves other peoples stuff.
You just send them money. No questions asked. No one will return that.
Identify a population you don’t want voting and deposit some support cash. Declare ineligible to vote.
Another would be to ask if they want it. Who will say no? The poor will certainly accept.
And how much would they be willing to spend to get people to not vote? And what would that get them if not a subsidy, handout, govt contract or the like? Those are exactly the things being fought over.
You realize people could do that exact same thing today. Just tell someone they will pay them $100, $1000, whatever not to vote. To what degree is that tool abused?
Then compare that to how many illegal immigrants and given govt paid housing, how many welfare recipients are bribed and appealed to en masse for more handouts, how many special interest projects lobby for contracts there are today.
I totally get what you are saying, but we are making a comparison here. There’s zero chance, zero, that the abuse of “pay people not to vote” equals the LITERAL trillions that get fought over in our current system by people voting themselves other peoples funds. Arguably it’s almost the entirety of how our govt runs.
It’s a fun thought experiment, but in no universe does the example you raise even visibly show up on a chart with the current resource corruption next to it.
Well, I guess I've been shown a lesson.
Why punch up when is a whole lot easier to punch down.
It sure makes a case for efficiency.
Ok, that ↑↑ is my first gut reaction.
Because opinions are all based on the assessments made by the logic developed by experiences, exposure & programming.
Truth is, not one of us has ever been in anyone else's skin but our own.
This is why people agree and disagree in free exchanges.
I don't know if what you're intending to say is this, but this is how I understood it:
(Please use bold lettering and underline on the "How I Understood It" part).
The working poor do not deserve a vote because the system who oppresses them and forces them into labor--into jobs that no one born into any kind of 1st world level of comfort would ever even imagine themselves or their loved ones doing; the system that also rewards corporations which do not pay a value for value compensation for that labor while also scamming their "employees" (more like slaves) & their customers at the behest of their investors; that same system should gag them.
That way they cannot protest vote their way out of the oppressive system which has worked like clockwork for those still in power.
No oppressed working poor has been able to escape their oppressors without help.
There are no "self-made" people. None of us are self made.
We're not even BIOLOGICALLY SELF-MADE. It took, at minimum, "parents" to make each and everyone of us.
Any single one rising above the tide does such with a combination of survival instinct, the circumstances presented & available, their rate of absorption of the information presented, their physical & mental ability, the influences they have been exposed to, their association and interactions with others among other qualities.
Everything & everyone around us, combined with our own physicality, mental acuity, & even faith; plays a part in every choice & every step we take in our lives.
Self-accountability IS A THING. I am not undermining that at all.
Self-accountability is essential for our very own survival. We need repentance, not just say or feel "sorry." Repentance is felt in the core, the deepest deep of one's gut. The nausea has to be there for one to truly know what BAD is.
The 180 won't hold otherwise, because "sorry" didn't cut it.
Self-accountability is essential for repentance, & repentance is essential for the turn-around.
But self-accountability isn't the only thing needed.
Compared to many folks, I've lived 100 lives. Not only based on what I've survived, but also based on the exposure to the thousands of oppressed people I lived & worked with.
Two decades plus under my belt with trafficked, enslaved, abused, raped, broken... people of all ages, colors, nationalities & creeds.
Only one thing in common:
POOR.
Not just poor, but some extremely hard working poor.
But, hey, if they need any assistance of any kind from any source for anything... f****, ahem, screw their agency.
Let's shut them up and eliminate their vote.
To tell you the truth, Democracy isn't even what we need as a species. Consensus..? more like it... but democracy... uh... is ... uh... It's a bully system.
It is a system so corruptible, not only for its propensity for rigging, but just the fact that it opens the door to the bullying of one another. Everyone trying to constantly one up each other, trying to convince & shove ideologies down each other's throats.
I have not voted since late 1990's. I have not been presented with a decent option on a ballot, and even then... I shall TRUST those in power to count my poor-ass vote, when I know their system is simply working perfectly for them?
So, under my own premise, I SHOULDN'T CARE whether you'd want the poor/working poor/oppressed to have a voice with a vote.
Since I don't believe the system is working, why #risk getting #pummelled in #Nostr by folks who, do not only disagree with me, but are very quick to jump me to teach me a lesson?
It would be a valid question, don't you think? considering that there are a few premises & opinions with which I do agree with you.
I shouldn't care and I shouldn't risk.
But I do, because in your statement, there is a level of belief coming from you. One that appears to believe that democracy COULD work. And if it did, you'd want anyone needing help in any aspect from the very hand who's punching them over and over, to not participate in it.
I hope I am incorrect in my assessment, for empathy & compassion are not the qualities that have brought us so close to destruction.
Corruption, greed, selfishness, envy, pride & gluttony have.
These do, however, cloak themselves under the guise of empathy & compassion.
I've seen it a million times over.
Luke 10:25-37
Also, unpopular opinion: one vote per household, from the head of household on behalf of the household. And on one day, no early, no late, no mail in.
I propose that you can either be on social security benefits OR have a driver’s license. You get to choose and can switch once
Not understanding what the relationship between those two things are that puts them at disincentives for each other… 🤔🤨
If you can work, you can drive. If you can’t work, you can’t drive. 🤷🏼‍♂️ Perfect way to get people to not try to game the system, and also a great way to get elderly drivers off the roads for everyone’s benefit.
This just makes too much sense! 🤯
This is retarded, stupid, ignorant and dangerous
Tell me you don’t understand incentives without telling me
I love the Idea. But isn't almost everybody recieving some sort of handout by now? Especially if you count people who work for companies that get government contracts, handouts or favorable uncompetitive regulation. At least in socialist countries like germany.
Then they give it up to be able to vote. Simple.
What about their family? They also shouldn't be able to vote, because of incentives. Including anyone who's parents have or will have government funded retirement.
Also what if the government builds a road next to your house?
I actually think nobody should be able to vote, but thats not a popular opinion.
Strong but a good call G
Welfare voters deciding who pays? No thanks. Cut the handouts, restore real voting power.
Make sure to exclude anyone that works in a subsidized industry from voting while you are at it.
Might as well honestly 🤣
This is a worthy proposal. It is supremely rational and would likely fix a lot of ills, while curing a huge amount of corruption and arrogant entitlement. It needs to be debated.
My below response is based on the premise of a #democracy worth participating in.
I haven't learned of any that does, but, if it did, the working poor should have a voice, and not be gagged further.
Well, I guess I've been shown a lesson.
Why punch up when is a whole lot easier to punch down.
It sure makes a case for efficiency.
Ok, that ↑↑ is my first gut reaction.
Because opinions are all based on the assessments made by the logic developed by experiences, exposure & programming.
Truth is, not one of us has ever been in anyone else's skin but our own.
This is why people agree and disagree in free exchanges.
I don't know if what you're intending to say is this, but this is how I understood it:
(Please use bold lettering and underline on the "How I Understood It" part).
The working poor do not deserve a vote because the system who oppresses them and forces them into labor--into jobs that no one born into any kind of 1st world level of comfort would ever even imagine themselves or their loved ones doing; the system that also rewards corporations which do not pay a value for value compensation for that labor while also scamming their "employees" (more like slaves) & their customers at the behest of their investors; that same system should gag them.
That way they cannot protest vote their way out of the oppressive system which has worked like clockwork for those still in power.
No oppressed working poor has been able to escape their oppressors without help.
There are no "self-made" people. None of us are self made.
We're not even BIOLOGICALLY SELF-MADE. It took, at minimum, "parents" to make each and everyone of us.
Any single one rising above the tide does such with a combination of survival instinct, the circumstances presented & available, their rate of absorption of the information presented, their physical & mental ability, the influences they have been exposed to, their association and interactions with others among other qualities.
Everything & everyone around us, combined with our own physicality, mental acuity, & even faith; plays a part in every choice & every step we take in our lives.
Self-accountability IS A THING. I am not undermining that at all.
Self-accountability is essential for our very own survival. We need repentance, not just say or feel "sorry." Repentance is felt in the core, the deepest deep of one's gut. The nausea has to be there for one to truly know what BAD is.
The 180 won't hold otherwise, because "sorry" didn't cut it.
Self-accountability is essential for repentance, & repentance is essential for the turn-around.
But self-accountability isn't the only thing needed.
Compared to many folks, I've lived 100 lives. Not only based on what I've survived, but also based on the exposure to the thousands of oppressed people I lived & worked with.
Two decades plus under my belt with trafficked, enslaved, abused, raped, broken... people of all ages, colors, nationalities & creeds.
Only one thing in common:
POOR.
Not just poor, but some extremely hard working poor.
But, hey, if they need any assistance of any kind from any source for anything... f****, ahem, screw their agency.
Let's shut them up and eliminate their vote.
To tell you the truth, Democracy isn't even what we need as a species. Consensus..? more like it... but democracy... uh... is ... uh... It's a bully system.
It is a system so corruptible, not only for its propensity for rigging, but just the fact that it opens the door to the bullying of one another. Everyone trying to constantly one up each other, trying to convince & shove ideologies down each other's throats.
I have not voted since late 1990's. I have not been presented with a decent option on a ballot, and even then... I shall TRUST those in power to count my poor-ass vote, when I know their system is simply working perfectly for them?
So, under my own premise, I SHOULDN'T CARE whether you'd want the poor/working poor/oppressed to have a voice with a vote.
Since I don't believe the system is working, why #risk getting #pummelled in #Nostr by folks who, do not only disagree with me, but are very quick to jump me to teach me a lesson?
It would be a valid question, don't you think? considering that there are a few premises & opinions with which I do agree with you.
I shouldn't care and I shouldn't risk.
But I do, because in your statement, there is a level of belief coming from you. One that appears to believe that democracy COULD work. And if it did, you'd want anyone needing help in any aspect from the very hand who's punching them over and over, to not participate in it.
I hope I am incorrect in my assessment, for empathy & compassion are not the qualities that have brought us so close to destruction.
Corruption, greed, selfishness, envy, pride & gluttony have.
These do, however, cloak themselves under the guise of empathy & compassion.
I've seen it a million times over.
Luke 10:25-37
I assume that includes tax breaks and/or tax incentives for families and small business?
Incentivised devolution
Absolutely nobody would have the right to vote in #Quebec (#Canada).
I think we need to change who can vote to people who are 30 or older, who have at least three kids and are married, because they are the ones with skin in the game of how the future goes.
Single men or women have little stake in how the future goes for a country and society.
