booo 
Discussion
Sigh
đ«
đ
It justâŠ.doesnât make sense.
Empty action.
If someone wants the choice to switch between only zaps and shakas, they would be able to toggle and see likes, then disable again.
More choice is good
Replace likes with 0 sat zaps
I agree âŠ
đ
Only argument I heard that made sense to me:
- people like using it to follow other people who also liked the post
I think itâs great that you give people the option to choose which one they want, another good aspect of the freedom you get on nostr!
Yeah for people who use likes this way I feel like it just took away a feature needlessly. As an #OnlyZaps user it doesnât affect me anyways so I donât mind re-enabling it. I am still concerned about when new users like without knowing what the zap icon means next to their name. They might be angered when they learn their likes werenât getting through.
I like the way you said this! I love the #onlyzaps feature but really donât care if someone else doesnât want to use it. Itâs not that big of a deal honestly, but seeing your perspective on it from a new user side really is interesting.
Even the argument that it is important for discovery of âlike mindedâ (pun maybe intended) people to follow is a stretch. The author of the note should be able to determine how they want to engage and be able to be transparent about not wanting the likes.
The argument that was given that I had a hard time refuting was: if we donât do it for blocks (muting instead) why do it for likes? OnlyZaps was like blocking for likes. I do want to remain somewhat logically consistent in the way I apply these types of restrictions.
Is blocks implementable on #nostr?
Say you have client A that implements blocking, and client B that doesnât.
Have any clients implemented blocking not just by name (not muting)?
i'll be honest personally i really like the đ€ a lot and was a bit surprised at first that people here didn't use it that much - but maybe #onlyzaps is the way forward for this platform - possibly set it as default on / opt out for clients (not sure yet if this would be wise) ... any opinions from the #plebchain ?
Re-note, quote-note, comment, zap all help with this job-to-be-done. This is not exclusive to like
I still like engaging with notes that I may not want to zap. I donât think of it as superficial, but rather as tiered engagement depending on the content.
Sometimes using a Shaka to acknowledge a conversationâs fourth or fifth comment/reply, is the right way to say âI saw your reply of âthank youâ but donât need to reply âyouâre welcomeâ â
Indeed. And for the people that want to receive that from you, they can do so! For those that donât, they donât need to see it! And wonât anyway!
đ€
I get more satisfaction from a shaka comment than a shaka "like"
#[4]â has been giving đ«'s for months now, and they mean a lot more than if he gave us a like
Exactly. I appreciate the optionality.
And I seriously appreciate the little âĄïž next to all of our names & nip05s. Just noticed that - a nice touch, Will đ€
What if likes are only there for comments on a note?
Its encouraging people to give their money into posts capitalizing it for individuals who are deemed âinfluentialâ and keeping it within a system that can use to silence those who do not wish to give into the system by eliminating ways for people to engage. This therefore creates a funnel preventing engagement for new users and that could be used to collude against users where individuals that build the âdecentralized ecosystemâ. It feels like a loot box to me but maybe Iâm thinking about it the wrong way
Indeed the wrong way. Likes are not real engagement, theyâre a data collection mechanism to influence the algorithms ability to serve you content.
Only zaps actually incentivizes new users to engage in a meaningful way, rather than simply consume content. By becoming engaged, their thoughts and ideas are then contributed to the greater discussion.
This honest engagement allows their comments to be zapped, encouraging them to continue to participate. It also funds their ability to zap others they find valuable.
Influencers are often âratioedâ in todays world. But such happenings actually continue to boost their signal and influence, even though it was deemed negative or false by the community.
In an only zaps world, influencers are incentivized to continually provide real value to collect zaps, as opposed to farm valueless likes for the algorithms to continue to propagate their popularity.
At that point we end up subjugating âvalueâ in a denomination and that denomination becomes the algorithm. Regardless of the propagation of their popularity the entire idea that the denomination itself can then be utilized to determine worth or value of an opinion in itself is censorship by taking value from someone else and leaving them with nothing as well as no hope to return anything. Itâs telling a user that âhey thanks for the sats, but you arenât *insert the adjective* enough to receive in return
This sounds like you have an expectation of likes in return for your efforts. Onlyzaps users have no expectations of likes at all. Theyâre actually expecting comments, reposts, quote posts, OR zaps.
Not at all. But just like anything with value that value can be manipulated just like an algorithm so Iâm more interested in the idea of likes being useless but if a user gives sats with nothing in return that is not. It seems like a one sided incentive
If the user is giving sats, the return was the value they received from the post they gave them to.
There are no algorithms feeding content here, just chronological order, followings, hashtags, friends of friends, relay choice.
For individuals that value likes, they can keep them? But likes are in fact- useless. Only algorithms find them valuable to interpret a user and serve them content.
A comment with a đ« serves the same purpose as a like, and is more personal.
100% I agree with you but I think we are running in circles here not sure how else to explain it
Id like to know, what value do likes have for the person that is liked, that is not achieved by comment, repost, quote post, or zap?
The only arguments Iâve heard for likes involve their ability to satisfy the liker themselves, or their ability for the content server to move posts to a more prominent position for greater visibility.
How are likes uniquely valuable for the liked?
How about this: Say you want to approach someone at a bar. You wouldnât walk in within the first 15 seconds and throw money down and buy them a drink. You scan the room, see if they are with anyone, see if you can even approach them. Itâs the same thing with normal interaction or digital.
You canât expect Billy Bob normal guy to show up see your post and throw sats or determine that they too provide value because itâs normal human tendency that they too have value or what they say has value. Although the likes do not mean anything the little interactions and little things go a lot longer than saying my sats show my worth. Idk if that makes sense
Sounds like youâre suggesting leaving a comment and saying hello should be the first step.
Likes donât provide any way for billy bob normal guys value to be appreciated. But a comment does. Now the guy at the bar has a chance to appreciate billy bob, and start a conversation.
I agree but I feel like we still arenât on the same page but thatâs okay because nothing here is set in stone
Follow people who comment on the post?
Can Onlyzaps have an added feature to paywall the reaction button that non-Onlyzaps users see?
Iâm gonna chill on the controversial features for a bit⊠people are triggered by paywalls
Thereâs no one size fits all. Youâve probably found a decent middle ground for now. Iâm mostly trolling the nonsense that people have been complaining about.
So you mean there are more controversial features coming ? đ
I hope so!
Question everything
This has been one of my mottos. Question everything⊠including the existence of God.
#[4]â, you can count on it đ in fact⊠whatâs he doing up there right now? đ€ heâs whistling while coding which usually means something good is happening
Also this was supposed to start with âknowingâ #[4]â but it disappearedâŠ#bugreport
Nice, canât wait to see what surprises weâll get. đ„°
Something fun I just found out! Not really controversial but something folks will really appreciate I think! Coming soon!
More controversial and opinionated the better. We need more of this not less.
Ditto
okkkkk :)
This convo will evolve into a beautiful controversy over whose property different speech acts are.
Free speech is messy!
I personally like the đ€ option (for now), but I totally respect anyone who wants zaps only, and if your note is good enough (and I actually see it) Iâll zap you đâĄïžâĄïž
Also wouldnât be surprised if I eventually switch to only zaps
âĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄâĄïžâĄ
You can never make everyone happy, stand behind your thesis đȘđ»
Id argue itâs more than a simple empty action.
The new update actually misaligns individuals values. By allowing people to like posts I will never see, there are two impacts-
First, the liker believes they have engaged with my post, an action an #onlyzaps user will never see. That is obvious.
Second, and more importantly, the #onlyzap user fails to receive the type of engagement they wanted by becoming an only zap user.
This is key- as an onlyzap user is opting into a system where more meaningful engagement is the goal, the new update actually discourages the meaningful engagement only zaps users are after by non onlyzaps individuals. Youâve removed the incentive for non-onlyzaps users to provide more meaningful engagement for those that are demanding it.
Their like is not only meaningless, it disengages them from the people theyâre liking, hurting the onlyzaps user by limiting their ability to encourage more meaningful engagements.
Iâm here because of you đ
I think once cash app supports receiving zaps, and could on board with saying âjust use the cash app already installed and configured on your phoneâ instead of oh to react to things you need this other app and I know I just explained that there is no underlying token but you donât have to react to things if you donât want toâŠ
There are three audiences for the âlikeâ: the liker, the author, and bystanders.
If the author opts out with OnlyZaps, that still leaves the liker and the bystanders.
Itâs only âemptyâ if you ignore 2/3 of the audience.
Will, when will you understand? we are all children and will never be happy. Technical issues are no match for human complications.
you canât make everybody happy ~
đ€Łđ€Ł
crying at you being in light mode lol
Itâs daytime. Sunâs out. Natural.
đ€
Do you manually change it everyday day & night?
No. There is a iOS setting that changes it at sunrise and sunset.
kinda fascinating ngl 
why tho
nostr:note1pnf5fr3dsxla4zwn0g7g54a4e0tt5m43jj90dufxyy9mp4yn6g7q54vf8q
I stand with Jack.
Censor reactions are for algos!
Dans ce cas autant censurer une certaine note qui parlait de communauté liée au genre ...qui va à l'encontre des droits universels, par exemple pour l'inclusion j'ai dû tomber sur une note d'une personne aveugle, selon les réponses qu'on lui a apportées j'avais le sentiment que ceux qu'un répondaient ne comprenaient rien aux outils techniques et aides humaines pour le domaine du handicap
When you have 10 Satoshis to your name itâs hard to keep up with OnlyZaps, bring on the likes.
âĄïžâĄïžâĄïž
Now you got no excuse đ
Avez-vous vu tous la liste de la semaine derniÚre avec les Zappés dont certains ne font pas partie des créatifs ni des développeurs...aucune objectivité
If there was OnlyZaps youâd have more than 10 sats đ
đ€
#[2]â in the build comments đ 
Always harder to undo implemented features once they become somewhat popular â good learnings.
Wen amethyst?
Android users.
đ
Why is it still not updating for me? 
and I just liked that post!
Haha, I win đ
#[0]
Did you? Iâll never see it đ
there are clients that list the things one has liked
not one that shows the things Iâve zapped (in the context of showing the kind 1 content of what zach has zapped)
maybe I should create a #Nostr bot just for you. A bot that replies to your post every time someone gives you a like.
Hello Jack,
your post just received another like! It has 102 likes in total.
See you with the next like.
Your friendly likstr-bot.
đ
Changed my mind about the bots name!
It will be "Jackstrap"
Ugh. I'm not even a Damus user and I feel you pain. I guess it's consistent though.
I am going to sell a physical đ€ button that says âLike!â out loud for a user that wants to make the empty gesture. Same effect.

I don't understand this moral superiority that is in the air. I am sad. Disillusioned.
This. My feed has an entirely different tone from before. So much elitism.
Many of us are normal people with a job, family and earthly problems, I will never understand how anyone feels superior in any way. Things should be talked about, not imposed. That's what twitter, facebook or shitnstagram is for.
L'animal humain a tendance Ă se groumer tels nos cousins les bonobos, cependant nous sommes tous differents et dotĂ©s de diverses formes d'intelligence, espĂ©rons que NOSTR demeure un espace colloboratif et non un patckwork (Flick Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, hospices, cabinets de types de psychoses, bureaux des plaintes, maux etc. ) des rĂ©seaux que certains ont dĂ» testĂ©s qui n'ont fait qu'exaherber certains maux , puisqu'on est en vase clos avec une certaine libertĂ© qui peut trĂšs vite devenir anxiogĂšne voire un *enfer, un rĂ©ceptacle* de tous nos cĂŽtĂ©s dantesques qu'on cherche Ă dompter en vain chez certains individus . Ce n'est pas le lieu-dit đ un certain regard socioprofessionnel avec un juste soupçon philosophique MANU. Humainement nĂŽtre en toute compassion
"Hey, I like what you had to say there bud. I agree đŻ%."
"Cool, but that'll be a dollar two ninety-eight, bud. Preferably paid in bitcoin."
Tentons de diversifier les thématiques prégnantes de notre Monde
?
My 2 sats⊠again (Iâm around 137k sats by now across all discussions)
The âwhy thoâ
I am yet to see an answer that convinces me. Freedom wonât cut it as it can be argued both ways.
I think the most honest opinion was given by #[4]â âsome of us want (or was it need?) that dopamine â
I think this is the healthiest spot for this debate. What has this dopamine feedback loop done to the fabric of our society? What purpose does it serve, truly? Who does it mainly serve? The users? The algo? Deep down, nobody?
I have argued for both camps today, because I find value in both. But if the result is exchanging quick dopamine discharge for engagement, it would be a good thing. Alienation is a big problem in society, fostering links means reducing alienation.
In all honesty, if that bandwidth and storage can be use to assess commercial trustworthiness or what nots while reducing an addiction that has profoundly changed the world I live in while encouraging people to really communicate and boost the voices of othersâŠ
My 2 sats⊠again (Iâm around 137k sats by now across all discussions)
The âwhy thoâ
I am yet to see an answer that convinces me. Freedom wonât cut it as it can be argued both ways.
I think the most honest opinion was given by #[4]â âsome of us want (or was it need?) that dopamine â
I think this is the healthiest spot for this debate. What has this dopamine feedback loop done to the fabric of our society? What purpose does it serve, truly? Who does it mainly serve? The users? The algo? Deep down, nobody?
I have argued for both camps today, because I find value in both. But if the result is exchanging quick dopamine discharge for engagement, it would be a good thing. Alienation is a big problem in society, fostering links means reducing alienation.
In all honesty, if that bandwidth and storage can be use to assess commercial trustworthiness or what nots while reducing an addiction that has profoundly changed the world I live in while encouraging people to really communicate and boost the voices of othersâŠ
Thereâs a misunderstanding of this feature then
If you need it, donât turn it on.
Turning it on because you donât, and then letting people think they are giving you something is bonkers.
I am just enjoying that it sparked a debate. Itâs going in all directions, itâs passionate, plebs care about Nostr.
The more freedom is given to the devs and users, the more experiments the network can do and we get to see the outcomes.
There you go!
Il faut attentif #[6] Ă votre pouvoir d'influence dans un groupe , qui n'est le mĂȘme que pour tout quidam ...par ailleurs j'ai apprĂ©ciĂ© le Zapathon de Notricia que j'ai suivi de loin
Dans ce cas pourquoi pas des journées qui seraient à des Zapathons avec des personnes qui s'inscrivent et travaillent de maniÚre collaborarive à des fins d'amélioration voire de l'esprit créatif
Je ne suis pas sĂ»r dâavoir compris
Je ne sais pas si vous avez suivi les prémices et le déroulement de Nostrica ou pas avec le concours de développeurs et créateurs d'idées avec des primes à la clé. J'ai dû suivre de loin ai apprécié cette approche
Demandez Ă vos pairs ou ceux qui ont participĂ© au Zapathon au Costa-Rica il y a eu des moments consacrĂ©s Ă des crĂ©ations de projets zuc termes desquels des primes furent attribuĂ©es aux meilleurs projets . Peut-ĂȘtre vous pourriez visionner ces moments de travaux sur les supports vidĂ©os de Nostrica au Costa-Rica..
HĂąte de voir d'autres choses et mĂȘmes repost des mĂȘmes notes
Yes! New paradigms are collapsing old ones...
Make Zaps the new way to "like". It's consistent with the next wave of what Bitcoin and Lightning are doing.
This is only good, esp for BTC adoption!
âĄïžđ„đ€
Iâll keep zapping the way I zapped before, might engage more than before, or repost more though.
The more I think about it, the more I see likes as something you feed to an algo, or sell as user data to advertisement and propaganda industries. Simply not needed.
Zap, reposted, comented, liked and even shared it via e-mail. đ
Time will tell, how many will still be with this activated in a month's time? Most of the people who promote it are influential people and therefore used to dopamine, we will see.
I share the discourse of looking for an alternative to the drift of the last 15 years in social apps, I don't want shit-influencers in nostr too, but, let's talk, let's discuss. I haven't seen any poll, or forum, or anything to talk about something that (let's not fool ourselves) can change a lot the way we interact.
I am nobody, just one more, mediocre, normal, imperfect. But I feel partly responsible for everything we are building, maybe it's an age thing, who knows? đ
Engaging, reposting, quoting, and zapping are all meaningful interactions we can have with one another. Likes donât mean squat.
Donât forget⊠this is an OPTIONAL feature in the TESTFLIGHT version of the app. Letâs see how it plays out!
C'est complĂštement nul. Zapper parce que est les serveurs et l'Ă©lectricitĂ© coĂ»tent chers cela peut se comprendre, zapper tel qu'ils l'ont fait pour la Nostrica oui peut ĂȘtre aidant pour tous les crĂ©ateurs et ĂȘtre d'une utilitĂ© fondamentale pour l'Ă©volution de NOSTR
Unless there was some consistency across clients, that's kind of futile, isn't it? It seems a very valid though narrow point. At least at the moment.
Consistency across clients is not needed, on the contrary, less consistency and letâs see what clients people gravitate to, and why
Oh definitely! It's just a curious situation. I'm really in no position to have a valuable opinion on such things, let alone understanding the technical complexity. I imagine eventually everything will gravitate toward fairly consistent basic features on their own, just by human nature.
Or, they could evolve into a set of different user experiences all leveraging the same network. A new webâŠ
Mais il me semble que NOSTR n'est pas uniquement Bitcoin s'il vous plaĂźt. Beaucoup de personnes gravitent autour mais sont infoutus d'expliquer Bitcoins Ă les entendre , j'ai plus une impression de communiquer avec un *vendeur de tapis de tapis dans un souk*
Le but de Onlyzap nâĂ©tait pas de forcer tout le monde Ă zapper, mais de reconsidĂ©rer lâutilitĂ© du like. A quoi et Ă qui sert il? Est ce que le feedback loop dopamanique quâil crĂ©e a fait du mal Ă notre sociĂ©tĂ©. Est ce que la place que les likes prennent dans le systĂšme ne pourrait pas ĂȘtre utilisĂ©e pour qqch dâautre. Câest bcp dâĂ©vent qui servent principalement les algo et la pub dans le vieux systĂšme.
AprĂšs, ce que lâon voit sur Nostr dĂ©pend de qui on suit.
La communauté dev est clairement pro Bitcoin, les premiers arrivants aussi, mais la diversité arrive,
Nostr est tellement plus quâun Twitter decentralisé⊠but the rabbit is not yet out of the hat
Me concernant lorsque vous élaborez et finaliser ''importe quel projet qui peut utile pour un communauté je *like et reboosté* par contrainte puisque je ne gÚre pas mes bitcoins et ma carte ne me permet pas malheureusement de zapper tout est géré par mon ami qui gÚre mon portefeuille techniquement et de son cÎté il n'hésite jamais à Zapper.
La question est⊠mais pourquoi un opérateur de service nostr se bat pour que les gens puissent envoyer des likes a qqn qui ne les vois pas?
La volumĂ©trie nâest pas vraiment un argument, vu que le type dâĂ©vĂ©nement correspondant aux likes va ĂȘtre remplacĂ© par des reposts/commentaires, je ne pense pas quâil yâaura un gain considĂ©rable en termes de performance.
Je pense que moi en tant quâutilisateur si je veux voir les likes dans mon interface, câest mon choix en tant que donneur. le rĂ©cepteur a aussi un choix Ă faire les voir et considĂ©rer ou non.
beaucoup de clients aujourdâhui utilise toujours ce concept. (â€ïžđđ€đŒ)
Uniquement Damus propose ce clivage aujourdâhui
Je suis juste content que cela ai cree un debat. Le plus de liberté a tout le monde, le meilleur la soupe créative deviendra.
Cela fait explorer des idées, des fois bonnes, des fois mauvaises.
Par example mon idée à la con se jour là était de remplacer les réactions par signal de nos émotions (construit avec une ou deux coordonnées x:y)
Communiquer nos Ă©motions dâune façon nouvelle. LâidĂ©e est intrigante Ă explorer, mais pas pratique. Mais, dâĂȘtre dans la soupe crĂ©ative tous ensemble aide le tout.

Jâadore lâidĂ©e đ reste Ă savoir comment lâimplĂ©menter
Le dilemme de Nostr est que ça vient avec pleins dâidĂ©es prĂ©-construites des plateformes de mĂ©dias sociaux quâon connaĂźt. Likes, reposts, notifications etc..
Et puis ces éléments là , ont été pensés en se basant sur une psychologie addictive et de manipulation, pour maximiser le temps passé.
Si on dit quâon veut rompre avec le modĂšle traditionnel, on doit repenser la maniĂšre dâinteragir ici.
Je suis dĂ©solĂ© si je critiques beaucoup, mais on critique ce quâon aime.
Aujourdâhui, le protocole est un dĂ©but en termes de libertĂ© ! pas tellement en terme de respect de la vie privĂ©e.
Aujourdâhui par exemple nos donnĂ©s persistent chez les personnes qui gĂšrent les relais, et on sait pas ce quâils vont faire avec ces donnĂ©es.
Si on veut que Nostr évolue correctement, il faudra éventuellement pensé à une maniÚre pérenne de gouvernance.
Je penses que sur nostr il faut se sentir en publique. Les options de privacy sont pensée mais pas toutes implémentée.
Aussi, combien de ces relays sont sur le cloud? Câest bien beau de dĂ©centraliser mais si aprĂšs tout va chez Amazon⊠fichiers externes et notes.
Pour l idĂ©e, les argument contre Ă©taient l interface, trop compliquĂ©e et lente (un cercle qui remplis une bonne portion de l Ă©cran e un ou deux coup de doigts je penses que câest pas si chiant pour pouvoir communiquer toute la palette de mes Ă©motions)
Lâautre est la visualisation (et lâaspect cross culturel de cette visualisation) et la je me suis perdu dans des solutions absurdes.
Tâas bien raison pour lâaspect dĂ©centralisation ! On a tendance Ă oublier que Nostr est publique.
Pour les rĂ©actions, peut ĂȘtre comme LinkedIn, un appui long sur un bouton, pour ressortir un ensemble dâĂ©motions avec un sĂ©lecteur, âŠ
En tout cas si tu veux expérimenter, ou tester des choses, ça me ferait plaisir !
Embed 1 sat to each like đ«Ą
Trying damus for the first time but a bit confused with all of the relays. Do you see this & does this work ?
Welcome đ€ Follow #plebchain
Zap zap zap #zap ⥠zap zap


