I've recently onboarded someone to Nostr using Primal and the first thing they said was "why do I already follow 150 people?".
This is not the way.
Discussion
Exactly.
nostr:npub12rv5lskctqxxs2c8rf2zlzc7xx3qpvzs3w4etgemauy9thegr43sf485vg onboarding feedback
Many clients used to do this back in the day, not cool imo.
Agreed, it’s pretty dumb.
Which client(s) do you use/recommend these days?
I've been Primal 99% since the start, but it's starting to feel like I'm on a mute list myself.
As long as you use more than one you'll be better off than using any one of them
Agreed
this is an optional feature on primal
i used to be pressed I didn’t make the cut 😂
I'm not a fren of Primal. They've made some strategic implementation decisions that I don't like or agree with, and some aspects of their system are, I believe, antithetical to the principles of Nostr. I'm sure it's great for onboarding new users, but at what cost? It's just not for me, and I worry about the users who connect to nostr using that client, who don't gain an understanding of what nostr really is, and how it's supposed to work. That's my 2 sats.
is that their solution to an empty feed on initial bootstrap? 🤦♂️
No, they solve that with cache servers that let them generate "trending" feeds and stuff at the cost of bypassing relays.
This is their solution to the grifting urge deep in their bones
the trending feed is so boring, it's all just people saying good morning
GM
GM
GM
GM 🫂💜🤙
GM have a great day
Ok. I’m sorry that happened to you.
GM
The GM protocol will not be stopped #40GMW 💪🤙😁
please explain I haven't been here long enough to understand the local meme culture
Good morning ✌️🧡
LoL good morning 🌞
In fairness they are transparent about this and give the user the option to edit.
They're not transparent about it
If they were transparent about it there would be giant red letters saying "warning: following these people makes nostr absolute fucking shit"
Yeah and following no one and seeing random stuff in the feed makes nostr absolutely amazing
For real. Nostr has been showing amazing potential lately for me, while I don't follow anyone
🔔🔚
?
Your comment made absolutely zero sense.
Re-read it then. It's all valid English, not random emoji
Go on then, i'll bite.
How does following people under the interest categories the user selected themselves, make Nostr 'absolute fucking shit'?
Are you suggesting it inherently does based on something I said, or are you asking about the specific case here where they're shitty people that ruin nostr? Either way, weird question
Answer the question or move along.
1. If you mean inherently, I'm still not sure what I said that you're basing that on.
2. If you mean in this case, I'm not sure what's not clear about how auto-following shitty people would exacerbate how they damage nostr.
3. It's weird that you didn't actually mean a particular interpretation of your words, or at least you refuse to clarify which of my 2 possible interpretations it was, and you act rude about needing me to answer both possible interpretations.
Try it though. If you want to start fresh you have to hit custom them unfollow each and every batch individually (there are a lot) and it's glitchy (the defaults can be different on each batch), so it's actually a LOT of work to unfollow everyone suggested.
Sounds like teething issues, but I hear ya.
What's the alternative? Show someone an empty feed. Seems like a fine trade-off to make for me.
Yup, totally empty, but tons of content aimed at onboarding others you already know.
nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzpwgv8jm36e358cq3qn2unt0hmvzaxejnk9mqrlum9m464qd7v7prqqsptyae5ur96rdp938n2e8xh7z3055t0pmdkdu85kta37tw7e9ahkgnul998
and they were doxxed through Strikes KYC. Primal sucks.
Possibly a silly question but is it possible to have an ‘unfollow all’ button for people who don’t want to go to individual profiles to unfollow?
If this is already a thing please just ignore me. I started with amethyst and it was fun cos I followed no one and nobody followed me. My first post was like sticking my hand in a pond. It might be a lake now. Or maybe an ocean, I’m not sure.
Not sure if an unfollow all button exists, but I'm positive it could be implemented. #asknostr #devstr
And why are they all dullards from X anyway…
Shotgun KYC when you set up a Primal/Strike wallet
Cache delivered feed instead relay delivered feed.
Shadowbanning people, etc etc etc
Primal doesn’t deserve nostr protocol
We are working on improving this, but curious to get your take on what would be the ideal onboarding flow and first time user experience.
topic related most followed people, being able to follow all, selection of skip
Well you will be happy to learn that is exactly the onboarding process on Primal
Why would you want to bias it in favor of the most followed people? That basically limits it to the shitty crowd of early grifters that got high follow counts early
Not sure if your claim is true. But could also be a choice between, most followed, most zapped, most liked, most replied to etc.
Again, those all bias it in favor of early momentum. Makes it hard for nostr to ever outgrow the shitty people that got big follow lists early like HODL and ODELL
Follow suggestions. Opportunity to buy sats with option to skip. 🤔
Suggested follows with better categories. Most of the categories for your auto follows would be some sort of umbrella of bitcoin and bitcointwitter. (Eg I think you try to have a mixture, like 'memes' but really this means bitcoin meme accounts)
Scrolling up was disappointing, wish you were the one whose take he was asking for. calle is gonna say add nutsacks or something
there are welcome and introduction relays...what about we encourage others to have some of those relays so they can read when a new person comes in.
depending on their introduction more or less people will engage.
I did use primal at the start and got many people saying hi.
but the trending. which currently I do not find that helpful, at the time it was very helpful to follow others. So that is a good one for that purpose.
Could start with adding doggie coin and Monero since you already feature the more outdated Bitcoin so prominently
Start with no follows, zero, and make the UX100% focussed on helping newcomers to onboard their own friends, family members, etc.
As part of the flow show all the neat ways they can interact with people they *already know* on Nostr (especially zaps). An entirely different onboarding concept, and a lot of work to get right.
And create some temporary bots/placeholders to show what the feed looks like when populated (and make it clear they are illustrative bots). Don't use Nostr elites for this. And hide all trending lists. Trending lists must be proactively turned on somewhere in some setting.
Problem is this. The existing community (nice as most well-known members are) is scaring new people away, surfacing it in onboarding in any way is a net negative for growth (just look at retention numbers). I'd imagine 9 out of 10 newcomers feel very much like they've walked into the wrong bar. New communities will only spring up when people are comfortable, and the existing community makes too many people uncomfortable, ergo exposing the existing community to newcomers is detrimental to the growth of new communities, which is what Nostr needs most of all.
A hint to follow tags at the start or setting some tags as default start. Not npubs.
Tags can easily be hijacked by spam and questionable images
do mute lists already work?
start.njump.me offers suggested follows that you can uncheck (including npubs added by whoever sent you the link).
This seems like the obvious way to let users start with default follows without confusing them re: where they came from.
This is a good solution but I would still bitch about the quality of selection being offered. Nostr has so much promotion of bad npubs and very little promotion of good npubs. So far, as a result, we've also gotten suppression of all the good npubs that aren't so heavily promoted.
Is that a serious question? Just ask the user if they want to automatically follow 150 people so they can say “no”
it already has the feature to say no about this.. you don't have to follow suggested accounts during set up.
I would suggest not assuming a person is a Twitter pro once they sign-up. I was missing a simple web page intro on Primal home page.
I think we need starer packs
I can see why an auto-follow list is implemented/..it’s the initial impression the end-user gets and plays a huge factor in determine whether the app is worth their continued attention.
BlueSky has Starter Packs (essentially users bundled by shared interests) that a user can select to kickstart a curated feed. Maybe worth looking into.
Also may want to consider letting the new user opt in to something where they can get a halo around their pfp to denote they’re new. Might help drive interaction.
Just some ideas.
Curious, I would think that notifications also play a huge role in retention/stickiness — why aren’t those available on the iOS app? :)
It’s fine as it is. What’s the issue exactly? The user does not feel in control on the most hand-holding app? cry harder
auto-follow all the bitcoin meetups, promote irl 😅
I've been saying this since primal first came out. But you know, I'm a nobody and everybody hated on me for saying it, but comes along a influencer, and he's right, I was wrong. Hahahahaa
I have also had this experience
It’s the “cool kids” table in junior high. I agree with the people in here that are saying give newbies a choice of if they want to follow or not.
Yea so strange at first
so what app is a good alternative to primal? it's the one that came up first in the app store and I cbf downloading and trying out other apps individually.
Like any good community the elders are assigned to show you the way
We need a single person for all newbs to automatically follow (and who follows them.) Like MySpace Tom. I nominate nostr:npub1qny3tkh0acurzla8x3zy4nhrjz5zd8l9sy9jys09umwng00manysew95gx
New to Nostr and totally underwhelmed. It might be a better social media, but social media fucking sucks. So congrats at being the best pile of shit.
This is like taking a vacation somewhere better than any vacation you’ve ever had and then complaining about how much vacations suck.
I look forward to your exit.
Because a better solution allowing new users to browse through popular accounts has not been implemented yet.
we are working on one at nostr:npub17vscfmnmshfdw68llhduxtr4h0kkmyhzm4phzs40t3gqsmguz7lsak66ne! using intentional design of people and spaces.
you can go to your own block (top 21 profiles) or neighborhood or hop into different people's neighborhoods (curated list of profiles, no cap. this is different than your follow list).
if you were new to Nostr you'd visit a few popular neighborhoods and start having fun.
or you can go explore the city - hang out in districts (hashtags like #coffeechain) or intersections (two hashtags like #bitcoin & #grow).
you can go to the wilds and see the full Nostr feed but inside NextBlock the block/neighborhood/city should be enough to have fun for a few minutes on social media!
I dig it. I’ll use it.
I like the idea of a neighborhood more than a list of accounts to follow. Districts and intersections are very cool. And I can see it represented visually in a way that’s satisfying.
I’d love an option to turn off reposts from people in my neighborhood. A way to prevent friends from bringing unwanted guests to your house, if you will. Or at least partially hide them so I have to click on them to see the full post. Like they’re there but I need to give them permission to interact.
oh that's an interesting customization. without an algorithm, I was expecting reposts to serve as the primary "safe" way to see new content. generally that's how I've been finding good creators on Nostr now.
you don't like reposts? or just reposts from certain people you follow? would they make the cut to get in your neighborhood?
Nah. My ideal neighborhood would be <50 people who post original content at a maximum of1-2 daily. I’m stubborn, cranky and don’t want to live in a noisy, vibrant neighborhood. I like a boring, mostly static feed that even if I don’t check it all day, I can easily catch up to. I want my social media experience to mirror my real life experience as much as possible.
I understand I’m not a typical user.
ah! so we have blocks and neighborhoods.
your block is capped at 21 accounts. when you're done scrolling/strolling your block and catching up with their content, you can walk into your neighborhood that may show you more.
everyone has their own block and neighborhood, but also can jump into other people's neighborhoods. your block may be the only place you want to hang out. get in, have some fun, get out of the app and on with your life!
I'll note your customization request! we do want to replicate the real world experience and step out of what legacy social media has normalized.
specifically with ending "following" people and changing that to just adding them to your contacts (like our old school physical address books!). then it won't matter how many people have you in their contacts, your reach is how many blocks or neighborhoods you've been added to.
I’m in. When launching?
the block/neighborhood/city/wilds design of nostr:npub17vscfmnmshfdw68llhduxtr4h0kkmyhzm4phzs40t3gqsmguz7lsak66ne is only half of it.
we will offer an opt-in ad experience. you set the price of your attention, 60 seconds of your time. advertisers set the highest price they are willing to pay someone to watch their ad.
we match people with ads every time there is a new block on the Bitcoin blockchain. you watch. you get paid.
we're testing this ✨revolutionary ad experience✨ via the proof of concept call 'billboard'.
people will be able to watch ads, earn money, and ~ help us raise money to build our social media app. ~ then we'll be able to launch nextblock social.
nextblock billboard is launching🤞🏽may 2025🤞🏽
Could we use a network map and see profiles and nodes and hubs connected to each other so we can see the popular profiles with many following/followers?
love where your head is and we do have a plan for visualizing popularity. that's down the line and a little different than what you're describing but it's important to first note...
we believe in ending "following" people and instead just adding them to your contacts (like our old school physical address books!). then it won't matter how many people have you in their contacts, your reach is instead how many blocks or neighborhoods you've been added to.
so a person added to a lot of neighborhoods could be considered popular, rather than someone who is simply in a lot of people's contacts. a popular neighbor if you will...
I also think instead of finding profiles, on nextblock you'll find a few accounts of people you already know, hang out in their in neighborhoods and decide for yourself whether you even want to curate your own neighborhood.
also important to note...
we will have an opt in ad experience that lets you set the price for you attention/you get paid on Bitcoin to watch ads
if you hang out in someone else's neighborhood and an ad fires off, they will get a cut of your payout. a fee for the experience they've curated for you in their neighborhood.
we envision popular neighborhoods to QC the accounts they choose. they'll be financially incentivized to maintain the experience that people are coming for.
with this design and incentivized structure we think it will be less laborious to have an awesome feed of content from accounts you actually want to see.
"Show me the feed from this neighborhood, what are people saying?"
Instead of individual follows, categories in columns like in the old Tweetdeck app. When you add a profile or a neighborhood or a search topic, it becomes a new feed that you can save for later, edit as desired, or discard when it stops being interesting enough to keep.
Ads that zap us to thank us for our time, AND a way to zap back to say "I really loved the creativity and the message". Make it a two way street so we can get away from the Advertising model and move to the Appreciation model.
think of ads as promoted notes! you will be about to zap comment repost them just like any other note!