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Unit bias is an issue with Bitcoin. Newcomers often buy Dogecoin or other altcoins simply because they can own "a lot" of them, while the idea of ever owning a whole Bitcoin feels impossible. One proposed solution by nostr:nprofile1qqsgeksa4tajm7x673gq2v7t56dkgkh6pjhhzdhrgxlpke4za8jmmkqpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgqgjwaehxw309ac82unsd3jhqct89ejhxqgkwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxummnw3ezucnpdejqetk0p4 is to shift the language from 21 million bitcoins to 2.1 quadrillion bitcoins. Bitcoin is a great brand name and using satoshis or sats can be confusing. This would fix that too.

However, I feel this proposal would create confusion too, especially for those new to Bitcoin and for the media—because for 16 years, people have heard there are only 21 million bitcoins. Explaining that the total supply hasn’t changed, only the denomination, would be exhausting. Personally, I think calling them “sats” isn’t very intuitive, they should’ve been called “bits”, but at this point, I don’t really care.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Discussion

Nostr Gang 8mo ago 💬 1

How bout 1 million sats = 1 bit 🤔

Bitpunk 8mo ago

We already have a bit, 100 sats is a bit, like cents to a dollar. With 1,000,000 bits in 1 bitcoin.

I like this denomination and it's already established, some wallets give you the option to display in bits.

Nostr Gang 8mo ago 💬 1

Neat! Is there a name for 1 million sats?

Bitpunk 8mo ago

No, there is a millibitcoin, 1 bitcoin > 1,000 millibitcoin > 1,000,000 bit

The problems with sats is that it doesn't follow steps in 1000's...

That's the reason things got a bit awkward.

Honestly, I'll get used to whatever is common, sats or bits, it's just like using a different currency when you travel, no big deal after a few days of getting used to it 🙂

ᶠᶸᶜᵏᵧₒᵤ!🫵🏼 8mo ago

I think that’s one of the reasons why many of these new tradefi ICOs are becoming popular

Parman - Activate OP_GFY now!! 8mo ago

Nah

Disserter 8mo ago

satoshis are cool

they just need a visual meme as good as Bitcoin's

and a seamless "everything app" experience

Dakota 8mo ago

I think it’s all fine the way it is. The words and labels and denominations are all arbitrary anyways. Kids learn about dollars and cents and penny’s and dimes etc in school to learn math, which is really no less arbitrary then bitcoin - it was just established by precedent, just like it will be with bitcoin.

Garbage nsec 8mo ago

Kids learn about dollars and cents and pennies and dimes because they can use all of those things to buy candy.

A denomination current equal to the value of an apartment in many cities is of no relevance to kids.

Dakota 8mo ago

You’re intentionally missing the point. The point is that sats are the small denominations that kids would learn about and use to buy candy. And whether we call that small denomination “sats” or “bitcoin” doesn’t matter and is just as arbitrary and easy to learn as it was to learn about “nickels” and “dimes.” Probably even easier if you ask me.

Garbage nsec 8mo ago

Sure, my point is that Sats is the only word kids (or anyone else) will learn. There will be no need to learn any other word. This is the same as in countries like Vietnam where you have just one quantum currency unit, and everything is expressed as a value of that. Kids in Vietnam don't learn any other word to express currency besides Dong. Everything is just a number of Dong, a small number or a big number. Sats will be used the way Dong is used in Vietnam—for absolutely everything. The word Bitcoin, will have no classificatory value and will thus fade out of all usage. Just like there is no separate word in Vietnam for 100 million dong. It's just 100 million dong.

Many countries are like this, I'm just using Vietnam as an example. In all countries that have multiple tiered units in use (dollars + cents) this is because the highest unit still has relevance in day to day life. A dollar is something you can price a sandwich in. 100,000 dollars is not, hence we don't have a separate word for 100,000 dollars.

OceanSlim 8mo ago

This is the dumbest proposal I've ever seen.

SweedWick 8mo ago

Nope. Build on existing brand or the marketing team will freak the fuck out. Bitcoin, and Sats. Stack em.

Janne Kujala 8mo ago

The status value of being a whole coiner is more powerful in my opinion. Newbies can shitcoin all they want, eventually they have to buy Bitcoin anyway. We are not in hurry.

Jon 8mo ago

I think 100,000,000 Sats per coin is less intuitive to normies than 2.1 quadrillion bitcoins.

Plus 2.1 quadrillion might end the “there aren’t enough bitcoin to be money” FUD since a quadrillion sounds like plenty.

Big Barry Bitcoin 8mo ago

What about when we have 1 sat = 1 dollar parity and we need to use L2's like lightning to introduce subunits like millisats?

LN doesn't like to use decimals, so do we need to invent a new unit for that or is millisats still okay?

"That will be 1 bitcoin and 200 millisats please."

Jon 8mo ago

If one sat is one bitcoin then you would say, “your total is 1.2 million bitcoin please”

One dollar sat parity sets in, I doubt you’ll need decimal points considering the lack of value in a single dollar lol

Big Barry Bitcoin 8mo ago

No, I was saying 1 Bitcoin but meaning 1 satoshi...

But fair enough, maybe you wont need subunits of bitcoin, but don't underestimate the utility of micropayments in the future when we have a digital money. (E. G. Streaming money)

Jon 8mo ago

I am so ready.

I want to get to a point where I could pay my employees instantly by the hour. Clock in and watch the bitcoin roll in!

yope 8mo ago

People are free to call the units what they want of course, but if you go and call sats bitcoin, then I think it's also your duty to deal with and fix the massive avalanche of confusion that's gonna come at you. It will be HELL and it will be your fault.

Seriously, if no-conoiners have trouble figuring out sats, good luck explaining the infinite pizza problem once you have "changed the issuance" or done "stock splits" or whatnot... 'Cause there will be massive outcry over that perception and it will be all over the mainstream media.

But I'm confident nostr:nprofile1qqsgeksa4tajm7x673gq2v7t56dkgkh6pjhhzdhrgxlpke4za8jmmkqpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgqgjwaehxw309ac82unsd3jhqct89ejhxqgkwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxummnw3ezucnpdejqetk0p4 will never get enough support for that absolutely moronic idea, so no worries.😘

TheGrinder 8mo ago

people who (allegedly) don't graps Bitcoin and sats probably also don't grasp dollar and cents or euros and cents. Hence, they shouldn't be allowed to leave the house without a legal guardian.

Canadian Progressive Bitcoiner 8mo ago

I believe that eventually people will come to realization that 1 whole Bitcoin is too much, but the ubiquitous unit used will be satoshis.

Going to the grocery store "that will be 585 sats please" will sound a lot easier to use than "that will be 0.00000585 btc please".

As an individual satoshi becomes more valuable, people will gravitate towards the units of sats instead of bitcoins.

I attribute this to the assumption that people would once use gold bars as the unit until it got too valuable and thus was reduced to coins and then eventually individual ounces became a unit for accounting for gold.

It could be a shift in narrative and people aren't used to a deflationary currency and the need to change the units of measurements on money that gets more valuable over time, however in some places they do have to change the units in the other direction, especially during periods of hyper-inflation.

₿oniz23⚡️🏴‍☠️🇮🇹 8mo ago

What a bitch! But instead of wasting time inventing this shit, don't you have anything else to think about? Bitcoins are 21 million and it makes no sense to move the comma and call them sats. Who cares if the newcomers think they can never own 1 ₿. if they want it they have one 0, ..

TheGrinder 8mo ago

Yeah, no. Things worked fine as they are for the last 16 years. John isn't the first to make this notion and he wont be the last. Let's not waste time and energy on things we don't have to change. There is only 21 million Bitcoin and 2.1 quadrillion sats. Call them bits if you please or magic sprinkel dinkel but the supply and denomination is not to be changed no matter what smart money, influencers or wall street thinks about that.

Jay 8mo ago

It's definitely not the unit name that's stopping people from buying or using Bitcoin. It takes 10 seconds to learn what a Sat is vs a Bitcoin. When you can't get people to understand that, there's something else holding them back that pure logic won't reveal to you.

So the push for renaming says a lot more about John than the naming conventions.

TheGrinder 8mo ago

At least everyone is talking about this. It's called engagement farming.

mar 8mo ago

We don’t need to bend over backward for the sheep who can’t be bothered to spend a little time understanding Bitcoin. They'll get into it eventually, especially once their employers start paying them in Bitcoin.

Bitcoin doesn't need to cater to laziness.

As for the "bits" I agree,

Bits would have been way more intuitive and natural. It’s one syllable, sounds clean, and people already associate "bit" with small pieces of something digital because of "bits and bytes."

Meanwhile "sats" is awkward — it doesn’t sound smooth, it’s easy to mishear in conversation (especially with bad audio or noisy environments), and new people often ask "what’s a sat?" because there’s no obvious connection to Bitcoin unless you know the history (Satoshi Nakamoto). "Bits" would have been instantly more self-explanatory.

It’s honestly still not too late. Culture is flexible. If enough people just casually start saying bits instead of sats, it could catch on over time — You can lead the trend.

StackSats.IO 8mo ago

Unit bias is always in the eye of the behodler.

My morning coffee cost me 25,000 today!

Can you believe it?! I paid 25,000 for a damn coffee! That was Vietnamese Dong which is the unit of account where I now live.

In my mind it was less than US$1, in the merchants mind it was 25,000 Dong. People here deal with 6/7/8 digit prices every day.

There is perhaps nothing more fiat than fucking around with naming conventions to “deceive” people, and nothing more shitcoiner than trying to make some arbitrary tweak because we perceive other people will want our thing more if it’s that way.

The truth is changing the units won’t attract anyone in. And if Bitcoin is successful then the vast majority of people are going to be operating at fractions of a Satoshi any way so this is meaningless.

Crusty 👨‍💻 8mo ago

I guess it is better to talk about sats anyway. It takes away the thoughts mainstream media hinted in people, because it sounds a new thing.

Of course not hiding it.

Jordan 8mo ago

I think people will figure it out

Sats Dragon 8mo ago

I vote not to change my name. Keep sats 😀. But in usd we have dollars and cents, not dollars and dols. So not that much of a stretch for people to actually grasp the concept in the us. We might need a metric system for everyone else.

So 1sat = 10 nanobitcoins

Coach Z 8mo ago

I think you bring up a good point. Please allow me to offer perspective:

I agree with you - many aspects of design aren’t ideal (a wallet is really a keychain, sats are bits, etc.). I believe that overtime people will continue using a multitude of words to refer to the same thing.

Similarly today in USA people refer to cents as pennies, nickels, dimes, and some even say Benjamins for $100 bills… and I personally only use dollars and cents (sometimes I use bucks to sound cool)…

In my home country, the younger generation uses the actual currency as jargon (dirhams and centimes).

Older folks almost never use dirhams in their jargon, but rather Rials.

50 Dirhams is about $5. Or like my mom would say 1000 rials. 😄

Everybody still communicates just fine!

nicodemus 8mo ago

Ah. This old debate again.

Been around long enough to know that this is just another bit of education normies are gonna be forced to learn if they want hard money - and eventually, they will.

cozie 8mo ago

Not just Bitcoin. We see it with stocks also. Generally do better post split so retail can own more shares for same expenditure.

Garbage nsec 8mo ago

Dollars and cents are everyday words because you can price everyday things in them.

Bitcoin and Sats are not like that. You can only price everyday things in one of the two: Sats.

Keeping the word Sats for the only meaningful pricing unit will lead the word Bitcoin to end up with no semantic value in everyday life. It will then detach from Sats and diminish, like the word "Sterling" detached from the word pound. (The word Sterling lo longer adds meaning to the word pound, and the word Bitcoin will no longer add meaning to the word Sat).

Bitpunk 8mo ago

I'm against shifting as well.

However I would prefer using 'bits' and sats more.

It is intuitive to have

1 BTC =1,000,000 bits

and

1 bit = 100 sats

That way it clicks a lot easier in my head when doing calculations back and forth. The only thing we need is wallets and apps giving the option to show bits... 🪙

The Daniel 🖖 8mo ago 💬 1

Nobody will ever use bits. It’s been tried for 15 years.

Bitpunk 8mo ago

I do think you're right...

But the nice thing is, it's just a semantic layer. I can just put my wallet's denomination in bits while you use sats on your invoice. 😄

Die Goldschmiedin 8mo ago

I must laugh so hard. I can't see a problem for the US people here. There is no sense in every measuring they make. Inch, feet, acres, bananas whatever and now concerned about 21 Mio. Bitcoin? 😂

The Daniel 🖖 8mo ago

Imagine having to rewrite every bitcoin educational book, redo every video, every tutorial, recode every wallet, in every language…and expect there to be enough consensus among existing HODLers, just to try to make people think there are more “bitcoins.” It would be an absolute clown show.