I think I'm going to have to go against the norm here and come out as anti bitchat.

Correct me if I got any points wrong.

A billionaire made a "mesh" chat app marketed as independent of the internet.

The range of the mesh is absolutely fucking useless so they added internet chat so you don't uninstall immediately.

The gimmick mesh with useless range means you must keep precise location enabled at all times. This isn't just coordinates but also the ability to log every bluetooth device nearby you.

The major news media keeps writing articles about how downloads of it spike after the internet is shut off in a country. (Think about this for 30 seconds please)

How am I the first person to say this looks like a honeypot? Uninstalled.

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Also how is no one else mad that Android has Bluetooth and GPS in the same permission? I know they both give away my location but I still want independent control.

You're not the first person I've seen pooping on its The Axiom and a couple others were posting negatively about it too. It's too out of my understanding for me to judge, and I've never tried it

I didn't exactly do a code audit but it looks sus af as the kids would say.*

*assume any slang I use less than 25 years old is used wrong and also no longer cool.

Sad to hear negative stuff about it from people who seem to understand the tech. The marketing of it sounded pretty dope.

The recent talk of that and other such systems reminds me I wanna get into ham. I say this every few months and then proceed to do nothing. Whack, I know

The test for technician is super easy. Use the app from this site. https://hamstudy.org/ the app requires no login and no network after you download the test bank last time I used it. Basically ohms law so you don't blow yourself up and a few basics about not stomping other peoples signals. You can talk around the world on a tech license with no internet and no location tracking as long as the sun cooperates.

Ok, I'm doing this first step. Also, ass this may not be the first time you've shared with me, sorry for asking about it (indirectly) again

You can also by a cheap ham radio before you get your license and listen to radio traffic. Just don't "key down". Some radios even have a function to disable the talk button.

I've got the ap, gonna start reading a bit before I get ahead of myself. A bit sick, so seems like a good day to start

Gmrs is pay and go, no test. Also the license covers your family. The lack of proof of work before transmitting shows in the chatter you hear though for sure.

man, you hear chatter on gmrs? i'm lucky if those two guys i sometimes catch are around. otherwise it's a ghost town

Still on the first page of my book, so none of this makes any sense. Can't wait to come back and spew acronyms though. See you soon ๐Ÿ“ป

Gmrs is a separate radio "service" with different rules than ham.

Last time I turned on my gmrs radio there was chatter on the local repeaters during drive time but otherwise quiet. I never join in because of the quality drop compared to ham.

I use gmrs walkie talkie style for camping in places with no cell reception. Easier than forcing my wife to get a ham license.

This

Just throwing hambook.org out there as well. I bought a hard copy to have around, but the online version is free.

Hamstudy.org, hambook.org, exam.tools, and signalstuff.com are all the same folks. All excellent.

That's the first book recommended by the ap on hamstudy, so went with it. Online version free, yes, and I think they charge 10 bucks for an "offline" version. Kinda want a physical version for some reason, but gonna see how long I stick with it before doing that.

I will absolutely coach you through the material if you want some practical application stuff. Maybe we need a nostr:nprofile1qqsv83ejztakekydrtxp3a5yn3nqc34re9et7knkd3vn35rynlwuklqpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsqhf6yx ham radio study room. ๐Ÿค”

Yeah man. I just need a pretense to hang, the thinnest will do

Keep an eye out for cornychat.com/hamitup

So easy. Like a week of mild studying. Online exams now.

Really?! I see the app is 4 bucks through the App Store. Was gonna snap pay for it but need to open site on desktop and see what's what first. Encouraged to hear it's easy

I swear the app used to be free and they only sold antennas.

I think thought the stuff prep charged, but the quiz was free to keep trying and learning the entire test bank

โ˜๏ธ

๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ‘Œ

Ngl, I uninstalled it after a few weeks. It was fun to dick around with, but I didn't like the way it consumed my battery.

the GPS thing, man. non starter for me. graphene doesn't (yet?) have course location and uses the real gps.. the app should not need this, a poor architecture. should just blast out btLE packets and be done with it.

Right, I use an app to fudge my location anyways. I'm always hinky about sharing my location, so having an app that's always fucking listening to where I am is.....as you put it a non-starter.

also, you can just talk to the bitchat mesh over the relays anyway.. like the spammer trolls do ๐Ÿ˜‚

๐Ÿ˜… right

The mesh and Nostr options don't bridge AFAIK.

For the Nostr portion there are other apps, without any location tracking. Nym.bar is a web app by nostr:nprofile1qqsdfx5syw3pmwsm8jpsdj3kn0ejg0vtgju0pdk3r9nq0aasny863hcpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuvrcvd5xzapwvdhk6tcpzemhxue69uhkummnw3ex2mrfw3jhxtn0wfnj7qgwwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkctcgszrn4 that lets you interact with the ephemeral chat, with many more features. I've found it much more useful than the actual bitchat app. It's more like irc over Nostr.

ohhh, good point, I thought it would bridge to the geo relays but... maybe not eh? I can test it while i still haven't un-installed ๐Ÿ˜‚ the ephemeral event thing is kinda neat, and that's just raw nostr stuff. i have mine set to c2, 600 second expiry

Yeah I don't use the bitchat app itself, I don't care about the mesh stuff. Nym is much better for the ephemeral chat anyways.

Nym posting or not the app has location and network at all times if you follow the install instructions. Thats not really nym once you go home with it installed.

Nym.bar is a totally separate web app, with no mesh or location features at all. It uses the Nostr ephemeral chat system.

Never heard of it or tried it before. Definitely not what I was criticizing because I don't know enough about it to say anything.

Amethyst also has some basic support for ephemeral chats. It would be cool to have that built into more clients, plus a way to easily run your own relay focusing on them over Tor. IRC style communications over Nostr.

the real elephant in the room is does it even work? ๐Ÿ˜‚

where are the boots on the ground, download counts does not equal success.

Yea I tried it out for like a few days and found it completely useless. Your points seem valid.

Feds gonna try and do Fed shit ya knowโ€ฆ

Itโ€™s not like there hasnโ€™t been mesh chat apps for a fucking decade already and nobody really uses emโ€ฆ

Unlicensed (let's ignore pedantics here unless you are curious) radios have useless range for communications. What a shock.

At least meshtastic has a repeater infrastructure in some places. I prefer the tech of reticulum so far but no one to play with and no repeaters.

Yeah if I started using any of this stuff it would definitely be reticulum

reticulum works over LoRA like meshtastic but you gotta run custom firmware

I do have a lora pie hat sitting on a rpi 4 8gb + 2tb drive with touchscreen enclosure just collecting dustโ€ฆ

That is the most overkill lora device I've ever heard of.

๐Ÿคท๐Ÿปโ€โ™‚๏ธ never ever used it since put it together a few years agoโ€ฆ

I've never made a meshtastic contact except to myself and I own 3 devices.

I need other stuff other than the rpi? Rekt

You need a second lora node to talk to yourself. Most users find that is all they have to talk to.

The worst part of building meshtastic nodes is realizing you're all alone

Then you put it in a box and never turn it on again so the next guy doesn't hear anyone either.

i am thankful to have such a vibrant mesh here. i've only had a few ACKs but, i really enjoy the "mesh news" as I receive a ton of packets..

tho my main use is talking to my IOT devices so the wider mesh is not really my main usecase anyway.

Yeah I had planned on using it with iot sensors as part of a diy home security systemโ€ฆ but that hasnโ€™t happened as of yet lol

the PI would be epic for that. I can't use analog sensors on heltecv3, which kinda made some of my plans for more alerting stall out till I figure out what the hell is wrong w me ๐Ÿ˜‚

I wish I knew what the hell to do with all this stuffโ€ฆ I used to be a tech wiz but it just seems so hard now a daysโ€ฆ

just pull it all out onto your desk and make a huge mess, that's what I do ๐Ÿ˜‚

My desk is... Not great. If I push some stuff around I can make room to use my mouse.

What desk lmfaoโ€ฆ it was supposed to be attached to the wall so I took up less spaceโ€ฆ ๐Ÿคฃ๐Ÿคฃ๐Ÿคฃ๐Ÿคฃ๐Ÿคฃ now itโ€™s in a box somewhere ๐Ÿคฃ๐Ÿคฃ๐Ÿคฃ๐Ÿคฃ๐Ÿคฃ๐Ÿคฃ

this 40$ camping folding table I have has some serious unfolded miles on it ๐Ÿ˜‚ "it's only temporary structure" ๐Ÿ˜‚

๐Ÿคฃ๐Ÿคฃ๐Ÿคฃ

I've been looking into reticulum but all I have are standard WiFi / Ethernet devices and idk about running custom firmware on a router to act as a hub...

I need to look if it supports my heltec v3 devices yet. I'm not exactly active on meshtastic so no loss to flash them over.

I have stacks of old laptops I could just put Kali or Tails on them strategically hide them around my town

Not gonna happen lol

You do understand we think bitchat is fed ware right?

Everyone has an opinion. I'm undecided. I don't personally have a use for the app, but I did test it. Bluetooth connections could span a city block distance between two phones.

Can you show me in the open source code where it's doing fed things? I understand questioning this, but it all seems a bit paranoid, with no actual data to back up the beliefs.

What if the feds are the ones trying to discredit it? ๐Ÿ˜‚

Jack is a fed imho so itโ€™s inherently designed by a fed, released by a fed for the fed to use against usโ€ฆ

So you can't point to the code where it's doing the bad things, it's just a belief.

I don't care about Jack either way personally. I'd love to see an actual code review done, outlining the security of the app. Baseless speculation from personal beliefs doesn't do much for me.

Idk why you think there needs to me an issue with the code base for it to be a fed honeypot?

Jack supported Nostr too. Do you think we're in a honeypot right now?

Itโ€™s very fucking possibleโ€ฆ

But Jack didnโ€™t build nostrโ€ฆ he gave devs a pittance

If you wanted to take the bitcoiners most concerned about decentralization out of the conversation how would you do it?

A way of segregating themselves in their own little corner, without having them make a fuss. That way the govt and big finance could more easily control the narrative, and implement things like ETFs and government Bitcoin reserves, while their voices are confined within a little bubble with no reach. All the while they could remain confident how free they were, while still being surveiled, all their communications being in the open, and signed to their identity with a cryptographic key.

๐Ÿค”

Build your own cage for your captors right..

What I describe there is Nostr.

Yes I know thatโ€ฆ

Interesting that a lot of big npubs push Nostr only, getting people to leave other platforms and use Nostr exclusively.

You mean influencersโ€ฆ

I suppose. My point is that Nostr itself could be a much larger honeypot than a little used Bluetooth chat app.

Iโ€™ll agree with that

Ooof twisted

grants holders make a huge honeypot. has anyone considered this?

Oh yeah itโ€™s totally plausible they are

The tax accountants for grant holders bitcoiners also have all their kyc data , thats a massive honeypot

I'm not advocating for it's use. I just see a lot of paranoia with no facts. It would be nice to see some actual data, that's all.

I don't have the skills to audit the code. The things I do have the skills to see look bad. I know some who follow me don't even have those skills.

Should I just keep my mouth shut? Without a formal code audit by professionals what I've posted is the best we've got.

I made it a point to state facts before drawing the conclusion I arrived at by those facts. My facts may not be a red handed line of code but they are still facts.

Now do Nostr:

- funded by the same billionaire

- anyone who uses it exclusively has their reach to communicate on the Internet cut down by several orders of magnitude, confined to a small echo chamber.

- gets featured in the mass media anytime a social platform has censorship issues.

nostr:nevent1qqsd7tyyglggudw89e8nsgvt8dcsy9qw66dgwxpmjcfe5r9xhz4gq8qpzfmhxue69uhkummnw3eryvfwvdhk6tczyr02k7w6lgwzhe955mf6egf40dk25zm5f06x44ff5khyvs5g270xsqcyqqqqqqgddv5a5

I don't disagree but at least I have the ability to shut off those sketch permissions and attempt my shitty opsec with nostr. Bitchat is almost impossible to use privately which is the opposite of its marketing.

I never really used those other social platforms. This is probably the biggest reach I've ever had on any social under any name and this specifically is probably my biggest post ever for engagement.

nostr:nprofile1qqs9pk20ctv9srrg9vr354p03v0rrgsqkpggh2u45va77zz4mu5p6ccpzemhxue69uhk2er9dchxummnw3ezumrpdejz7qgkwaehxw309a5xjum59ehx7um5wghxcctwvshszrnhwden5te0dehhxtnvdakz7qrxnfk is it possible to make these permissions toggleable? Is there a technical reason for them to be absolutely necessary?

Android requires location permission for Bluetooth low energy because it could be used to detect your location via nearby devices. Android requirement.

Reposted for visibility, not that I completely believe this yet

Sounded like a horrible idea, I didnโ€™t install it, never will.

Lol. Your right. I think youll always be right. Never wrong. ๐Ÿ˜‚

I never installed it to begin with. Donโ€™t trust having Bluetooth on for an extended period of time.

You're not the first is that people don't like When the little guy is right

Keychat is my preferred nostr chat / DM at the moment. Give me a feature I'm missing to justify installing another chat app.

We all have our preferred methods of communication.

You do you.

I was genuinely asking. It has a cool name and I like to play with new tech.

No signer support, paste nsec only. Fuck that, I'm out.

I've tested Keychat, it's well developed. I've also tested White Noise, which is brittle and seems to be quite far behind Keychat. I don't really understand the focus on White Noise and their child protocol when clearly Keychat is the far better engineered app, and the better thought out system too.

I tried it. Clearly thereโ€™s no other using in my area, so I โ€œteleportedโ€. Smut. โ€œTeleportedโ€ again - even worse.

Letโ€™s just use our HAMM Radios and stop relying on anybody else.

I agree with you. For me, I never had any success using #bitchat. The hype was unreal.

nostr:nevent1qqsvq57v8mvjkj60mh7vtfmjy0qex7pkgc56nepj3fzggvtjenk668sppamhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d505naph

Youโ€™ve noticed something most people scroll past without thinking, that pattern you described isnโ€™t random (my opinion), and your instincts picked up on the tension behind it๐Ÿ‘Œ, the technology asks

(*) for constant access,

(*) constant proximity,

(*) constant visibility,

= it stops feeling like a tool and starts feeling like a funnel or a surveillance tool๐Ÿ”Ž๐Ÿ˜ฒ๐Ÿค”

๐Ÿ”ฅThank you for speaking up๐Ÿ˜Š๐Ÿ”ฅ

observations like this donโ€™t just inform us, they wake people up๐Ÿ˜ค

awareness always starts with

starts with someone brave enough to say:

๐Ÿ”ท๏ธโ€œthe technology doesnโ€™t feel right๐Ÿ˜ฒ.โ€๐Ÿ”ท๏ธ

Multiple companies are trying to get a surveillance tool (we already know, people will misuse surveillance tools๐Ÿ˜ฎโ€๐Ÿ’จ๐Ÿ˜“)

๐Ÿ‘‡

nostr:nevent1qqs03f6zt4fr35jcgychwfvns6fhy0tzeucfwd5fcmag9h5clrdcwuszyqvrzx2mfr48xuckyw7fmxafmp623455s7047l2l32mgzgx6lekycqcyqqqqqqgn0g24l

Looks like a movie scene but it is not. I have a problem now with my ZBD wallet and all my sats I earned on free Idle games on my phone. Since EU 2026 new laws ZBD is asking for my digital id. I didnโ€™t do it yet because it against my vision. The issue is my stack of sats there I am probably going to loose. I am upset I didnโ€™t transfer it before 2026. Basically what they did is give you rewards then they hook you up on the system and if you are not strong enough and well informed you give away all your liberty. Thx for the video.

Thankbyou for sharing your experience with us.

Because you're already aware of what is happening in the world, you have distance yourself just in time,

unfortunately there are too many people who think:

(*) "Why not?" or using the excuse

(*) "they can have my information, because I have nothing to hide"

In reality, they don't know or understand what people can do when they have enough personal information, bad actors can do many things with personal information +new tech.

In short, people like you and me world wide we are not the masses๐Ÿ”Ž,

the masses give all their "personal" information to many companies without thinking or trying to learn about the hidden dangers ๐Ÿ˜ฎโ€๐Ÿ’จ ๐Ÿ˜“๐Ÿ˜“๐Ÿ˜“

I am honest I have 34k sats on it and even if for my vision of the future they are a lot ( I am saving for my kids) I decided to delete all the apps were I was earning free sats. More time to shitpost here on #nostr were I feel you get rewarded fairly for the value you bring to the community ๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ช๐Ÿš€

Wait, why do you require location enabled to use the "mesh"?

I agree with some of this.. always thought the Mesh was the useful part, but only in an emergency. The chat pretty much just duplicates 1000 other things, poorly...

But IDK about "honeypot"... Isn't this all open source, at least the Android port by nostr:nprofile1qy2hwumn8ghj7etyv4hzumn0wd68ytnvv9hxgqg4waehxw309a5xjum59ehx7um5wghxcctwvsqs6amnwvaz7tmwdaejumr0dsq36amnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3dwp6kytnhv4kxcmmjv3jhytnwv46qqgzsm98u9kzcp35zkpc62shck8335gqtq5yt4w26xwl0pp2a72qavvyexdky ?

Did you pay attention when you installed it? Full time precise location because that is the permission android uses for Bluetooth and the mesh is BLE.

How would it work with graphene

It works fine

Still just a single permission for Bluetooth and location on GrapheneOS

source, I use GrapheneOS and that is where I tested bitchat.

Did not realize that. I assumed the location was required for the Geochat, which I don't care about. Didn't know that was important for BLE...

Reading around it seems like Android 12 might be introducing some more fine-grain control on that, which would be good...

i keep bluetooth off for obvious reasons.

Just read the source code?

Just never hear of an obfuscated code contest?

Seriously, most coders can't even figure out what shit they wrote does after not touching it for 6 months. Now I'm supposed to learn a new language and fully understand someone else who may have been trying to mislead me in that language I just learned.

This advice is so BS and I'm sick of seeing it. It is not a valid defense of an open source app or a rebuttal to anything I said.

So you're just too lazy to read the code and rather shit purely based on vibes? Ok retard. Bitchat is not obfuscated code, it's completely readable swift/kotlin so not understanding it is purely a product of your own incompetence.

Don't worry, you aren't the first person with infinite time and every skill but still doesn't know what obfuscated code is to post here. Use some of your infinite time and every possible skill to learn about the world view of non developers who have time obligations.

Every single update by every Dev for all eternity is a risk vector in every app. I'm sure you read and fully comprehend every line of code you run including every diff for every update plus rereading old code that may have surprising interactions only when paired with this new commit.

Or you could just say this app is a huge risk with minimal benefit and move on.

Reminds me of some quote that I'll put in quotes though I'm going off memory, "if you want to bake an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe"

I think you're probably failing to model the use case for Bitchat.

Location tracking services needn't be enabled in order to use Bluetooth.

Bitchat has numerous use cases:

-camping with others

-hiking with others

-farmer's markets

-sporting events

-concerts

-parties

-meeting someone with whom you've arranged a meeting who you've never met before in person in a public space...this could be used to facilitate private transactions of many types including non-KYC Bitcoin

-general chat in high population density areas

Yes precise location does need to be enabled to use the mesh even on GrapheneOS.

That's not what I said. I said "Location tracking services needn't be enabled in order to use Bluetooth."

I can put my device in Airplane Mode and still connect via Bluetooth to a speaker.

But the app still has access to every bluetooth mac around you full time and anyone on any device can pin that to a highly probable gps for a data aggregator.

I was talking about the device permissions it asks for. You are either confused or trying to be misleading.

OK, explain how that impacts the use cases of camping or hiking with others?

You're in the middle of nowhere with, presumably, people you trust, and if you're intelligent, you're armed and observant, so what's the issue in those use cases?

Perhaps it is less useful than I suggested if one is trying to pitch a no-hitter, so to speak, in terms of OpSec. To be fair, you overstate your case when you say "anyone can...". A disturbingly huge percentage of people can't even swipe a credit card through a point of sale credit card machine with the correct orientation on their first try. To your point, however, such incompetent people aren't who you're worried about.

"A disturbingly huge percentage of people can't even swipe a credit card through a point of sale credit card machine with the correct orientation on their first try."

๐Ÿคฃ๐Ÿคฃ๐Ÿคฃ๐Ÿคฃ๐Ÿคฃ๐Ÿคฃ๐Ÿคฃ๐Ÿคฃ๐Ÿคฃ๐Ÿคฃ

They don't need to know how to do shit. Their incompetence is the real key. Their phone is probably already constantly uploading gps and every visible Bluetooth mac to half a dozen data brokers because they don't have any opsec. All it takes is walking by something you walked by.

That may be fine in the woods but why keep that app around for that when there are better options that don't have the opsec risk it has?

> You're in the middle of nowhere with, presumably, people you trust, and if you're intelligent, you're armed and observant, so what's the issue in those use cases?

In what case would I pull out my smartphone to speak with people within 100 feet of me though? I've never hiked with people far enough apart that we can't shout to each-other.

Still more private and secure to not have the smartphone on me at all.

Hunting and bird watching come to mind. Yelling to your buddy that thereโ€™s a deer heading in the direction of the blind heโ€™s sitting in is probably gonna spook the deer.

There are use cases.

But all of those use cases are better suited for my voice and hearing sense. Bluetooth at crowded locations further shortens the range to the point id have to be within speaking range. If I was at a campground a wifi hotspot mode its probably even better suited (or ad-hoc wifi network on android devices).

Most of these cases make no sense unless your scared to speak with other humans.

I could see like on a college campus, or like a dense apartment building, but even then you'd probably use other apps, or go knock on your neighbor's door if the network is down. That said, even college campus have close circuit networks with redundancy, and we all have cell service. So a lot would have to go wrong, and again to the part where I go knock on the door of my neighbor.

I think I'm simply calling it a novelty and nothing else.

Hamm is cool. I'm on 2M for local talk. But it definitely has its drawbacks too. Super regulated. Must get licensed. Must identify yourself. Rules and all.

The people I speak with are super old and for whatever reason, sticklers for the rules.

Sometimes I miss the unregulated relative freedom of CB radio.

CB is still out there with the same rules as before. Be the change you want to see in the world.

CB has no real rules. The FCC basically stopped regulating it. Folks say whatever the fuck they want. Some play music. Its a free-for all.

FM or AM? ๐Ÿ˜‰

FM on 2M hamm, AM on CB. I see newer CB radios with FM (dual band) but I havent messed with it.

The switch to FM is what I was referring to.

On CB? I'm sorry. I dont think I understand what you mean.

The note I replied to claims the rules for CB have not changed, but they have.

Sure, you don't need to grovel for permission; but there are plenty of other complications due to the addition of, and possible migration to, FM.

Buying a CB radio is no longer a straight-forward process (if you plan on communicating with other CB users in your region).

I think I see. Can you elaborate on the complications and process?

I am under the impression that something nearing 0-2 enforcement actions have been taken on CB operators in the last 30+ years.

And these were for prolonged, amplified interference on popular channels (like 19) and only after several complaints were made and FCC warnings were ignored.

Please answer these questions, as I may be over complicating the issue.

Which type of CB should they buy?

What type of antenna?

Should they have two antennas, one for FM and one for AM?

If some of these questions lead to other questions, it's already more complicated than buying a CB rig before the FCC added FM.

Same antennae, FM vs AM. You dont have to use FM, so buying a dual band radio is up to you.

FM may be clearer, but won't go as far.

Cobra LTD 29 has always been the most popular radio. Now you can buy them with dual band.

Wilson 2000 is a popular antenna.

Now, if I was a newbie the "... is up to you ..." yields more questions. There are physical differences, which you mentioned, and practical ones (what are other in his region using). Again, my point was that the rules have changed, and as a result, there is more to consider.

OK. I guess I thought we were talking about fcc/government rules. Which haven't changed.

If anyone was truly curious, they should probably buy dual band and use them both to see whats what. AM is by far more popular still, but may change.

OK. I concede that by allowing FM, this technically a change in the rules by the governing body.

For clarification, the rule affects the manufacturers of radios, not users, as any user with the capability of switching to FM on their custom CB rig before the rule change, would not have beeen persued or charged with any enforcement action.

The CB band (outside of rules for manufacturers of radios) remains largely unregulated.

Its a free-for-all. With enforcement reserved for the less than once-per-decade extreme situation, like interrupting stations for long periods, causing complaints, ignoring warnings and using high-powered amplification devices to do so.

My concern had nothing to do with getting in trouble, and everything to do with properly onboarding someone into radio.

Giving a newbie partial, or inaccurate, information easily leads to confusion and frustration. That's the last thing you want for someone's first radio experience.

As an aside, the FCC has proven to not be a practical enforcer of their rules. That's been left to old men that want to fox hunt for a real "kill".

I like that last bit.

Still, not to beat a dead horse, but new users dont really need to understand this rule change that was enacted for manufacturers.

But they might want some basic info on the advantages of FM vs AM... which was probably your point.

I dont even know what I'm arguing at this point. You're just the only one responding to any of my notes today. ๐Ÿคฃ

I've got a little VHF/UHF handset. What's a good CB radio? Something that won't break the bank?

Its called craigslist I think.. ๐Ÿ˜‚

From what I understand, the new cool kid im CB radio is President. They have all kinds of models.

https://president-electronics.us/

No Craigslist here unfortunately ๐Ÿ˜‚

I looked on our equivalent but CB radios don't exist apparently. I'll probably buy new.

IMHO, the Cobra 29 LTD is the gold standard. I dunno. A couple hundred bucks new maybe. Then you gotta get an antenna.

And some coax

Down another rabbit hole I go ๐Ÿ˜‚

Buy the best antenna you can afford. It makes a HUGE difference.

I'll 2nd this. Likely the antenna is more important than the radio.

I was going to say that, but sometimes people want to debate that FACT. ๐Ÿ˜œ

Shopping list: CB radio, 27 MHz antenna โœ…

Yes, this I know. Thankfully I used to deal with wireless Internet stuff so I have a little bit of knowledge.

My little ham handheld works a lot better thanks to a bigger whip antennae. The difference from the pack in was night and day.

They're retired and lonely, so it makes sense. It still seems like an odd desire.

I've been tempted to cheer them up by keying down with my UV-5R, telling them how my spurious emissions are better than theirs, and finishing with roger-beeps.

Maybe I'll do that if I ever retire.

I'd be wary of anything Team Dorsey and his dick ridders support. Including all the developer funding distraction projects

I'm not a Bitchat user or fanboy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it open source? Is it actually logging Bluetooth devices or just scanning and connecting to form a mesh? Is it uploading logs? Is it uploading GPS data?

The billionaire that created a social media platform that censored lots of people and cooperated with the feds? The one that created a hardware wallet that prevents any possibility of privacy?

Iโ€™m not anti-bitchat but also uninstalled it after the first week. Nothing wrong with experimenting. We need better tools.

To be fair they greatly increased the privacy of the wallet recentlyโ€ฆโ€ฆ

The cyberpunk wannabes on Nostr want you to believe they cool and not useless morons.

agree

#Bitchat needs #Reticulum (#meshtastic or #LoRa). They compliment one another. Bitchat can work on the device already in your hand via Bluetooth, but Bitchat lacks range (silly to text chat with the person 20 feet away). Reticulum requires special hardware & skills (99% of people will not buy specialized hobbyist geek hardware), but Reticulum has range. They complement one another. "MeshCore" just came out to bring them together. See it here: https://njump.me/nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzpk4kccr9csumnwhmpv83ladqc6p88089cx2e5s2c4448ppgl2pakqy2hwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnyv9kh2uewd9hj7qghwaehxw309aex2mrp0yh8qunfd4skctnwv46z7qpqa4zg8q70qj6qu87j0ajauxf2wcznfh2s3war7ug067dsu3ldjkhs0qd2p4 I theorized on the concept last summer: https://stacker.news/items/1030661

Specialized hardware for Reticulum?

Any ethernet device

Almost all WiFi-based hardware

LoRa using RNode

Packet Radio TNCs

KISS-compatible hardware and software modems

Any device with a serial port

TCP over IP networks

UDP over IP networks

External programs via stdio or pipes

Custom hardware via stdio or pipes

https://reticulum.network/hardware.html

I understand it's versatile, that's great. My point is that most people already have a phone in their hand. I don't think many will go out and get a LoRa device and definitely aren't going to read and follow through technical details for how to get it to work.

The decentralisation is the mesh nodes. Be it Meshtastic (closed) or MeshCore(open). Itโ€™s just a matter of time for you not to use Netscape.

โ€œNever give up, Never give inโ€

Ummm you're not the first, but that's ok that my initial posts have been forgotten. That shit raised my alarms straight away.

I was slacking looking at it at all. Good eye to spot the sketch. I saw another wave of hype and finally looked, it didn't stay on my phone long.

Anything remotely location based + Bitcoin related = ๐Ÿšฉ

And Bluetooth.

I only rarely use Bluetooth and those events are only when I'm physically remote enough to guarantee security.

Umm, Don't worry little bro, they don't need a honeypot to get you.

They're already tracking you 24/7 without bitchat even if it was a honeypot.

If you have Google Chrome, Facebook, Tiktok, or anything from the app store installed you're already being tracked.

At best you can minimize tracking with a faraday bag, graphene os with sideloaded apps, and that's being generous.

If you have a vehicle with modern safety, and GPS features you can be tracked.

And Most of all if you're using Bitcoin, they know EVERYTHING you're spending on the public ledger.

But if you were important/an actual threat you'd already be dead.

So no need to worry honestly.

nostr:nevent1qqszgsygcpwdqus09uz2aed37etpew3cm9d0hvny7ghevmln0zcreggpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezumrpdejz7q3qp3za04z7mv86mkjzzhfkegxe4wsvwudct5m3wajt3gfg6hjy8exsxpqqqqqqzgccua4

Every single box you mentioned I've already checked. But go ahead, keep trying if you wish.

Accidentally posted this under another comment:

I'm not a Bitchat user or fanboy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it open source? Is it actually logging Bluetooth devices or just scanning and connecting to form a mesh? Is it uploading logs? Is it uploading GPS data?

Open source and audited are not the same thing. Even audits miss things. Obfuscated code is an issue also.

Someone interested should do a packet capture to start. For me, it isn't worth the risk chat apps that look less sketchy are easy to find.

It's all available to be audited. An audit will most likely notice obfuscated code.

Packet capture doesn't help if the data is encrypted, even with just SSL/TLS.

I like Briar, but it's not really useful for public communication in a grid down event like Bitchat or Meshtastic are. What else is there for that?

Reticulum.

Reticulum is awesome. ๐Ÿ‘

I believe it's been audited

I've never run bitchat at home because of this screen. Why force me to turn accurate location services on? ๐Ÿšฉ

I have bitchat installed on the offchance that it may be entertaining if not useful in the future. Location services are disabled for it, so I'd have to manually enable them beforehand.

The Bluetooth dream was initially sold to me at university as enabling a decentralised mesh network. Devices just talked to each other & we laughed at any privacy concerns as being insignificant.

It is partially because android treats Bluetooth as a location service in permissions. One toggle gps and Bluetooth access for this app yes or no.

It makes sense in the sense that gps and Bluetooth can both be used to determine your physical location. It makes no sense in the sense that I don't want to have to allow gps access to an app to configure my noise cancelling headphones.

It's been a while since I ran Google Android. That sounds like a feature that benefits Google more than users. Fuck Google but I'll keep bitchat installed & locked.

It is suspicious indeed. Probably a honeybot. Being open source does not mean much for complex new apps that have not stood the test of time.

Requiring location is an immediate red flag for most apps.

nostr:nevent1qqsvq57v8mvjkj60mh7vtfmjy0qex7pkgc56nepj3fzggvtjenk668sppamhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5pzqqgd7ry53l56k4xjedl2gg8l5zx409vfsxmw568g8248avka8uz6qvzqqqqqqyz5luav

BEEN CALLING JACK A BAD ACTOR (AND POTENTIAL PEDO) FOR YEARS. TWITTER BECAME FBISTR, FUCK THAT GUY

It is not freedom tech. It is obedience tech.

Besides โ€œmade by a billionaireโ€ which I find totally irrelevant, the other points are worth discussing. I too fail to see how itโ€™s useful. But, I donโ€™t see why we need to make a big deal out of it if everyone who tries it just uninstalls it anyway ๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ

Most people I know are really bad about uninstalling unused apps. I know I'm not perfect.

Interesting points. Will have to reconsider my location settings.

๐Ÿ’ฏ

This narrative reminds me of past dreams of "living long-term self-sovereign life with only Victorian era technologies". If I was smarter back then, I would quickly figure out why this isn't sustainable way of living for modern world (if ur not lucky gigachad with very healthy initial conditions ofc).

not sustainable as a thing for long-term self-sovereign living

Hey we're glad someone's talking about this. We recommended it to some freedom degens in a country in LATAM and they immediately shot it down for the reasons you cited + no faith in the developers for not being degen themselves.

My technical question for all of us on this is, if there is 0 internet and not everyone has a meshtastic/equivalent/radio device, isn't the only other option for one device to relay with another good old fashioned Bluetooth?

This is the only thing that's kept us on the fence with Bitchat, but we're still only cautiously recommending it to frens stuck in dictatorial regimes.

Can you think of other ways than Bluetooth coz the cell towers in the area can't be pinged anymore. Drawing a blank here.

#FreedomTech #PrivacyRefuge

Wifi and reticulum would be my first choice. Reticulum can run on near any hardware link.

Ham is even better, especially for reaching NGOs or other help outside your country but device access and knowledge are barriers.

Planning ahead I would build up reticulum locally with ham for long distances. Message relayers like is already done for things like ARES. Difficult inside once it is too late.

Yes, this is all fine if you're prepping in advance.

1) The problem is most govt ensure pulling the internet is a sudden jolt.

Which is where, should you download Bitchat and switch off all Location and Bluetooth perms, and only switch them on if and when an internet-takedoen happens, it might work well.

2) The problem is IP and location might not be the only trackers. Bluetooth is also a tracker in itself since it emits signals. How does any #FreedomTech app overcome that problem, is that we want to know?

*bitcrap fed app

ip mixRz

What is this? Can you give some more info or is this a typo from your keyboard?

Youโ€™ll have to excuse the Rand speaks lol itโ€™s not normal lmfao

cut outs have been used for lots of applications nostr:npub1kyeml3tma4su8yw5aru48wgxclchp8zr3kguwhakmtmegjw40zws82sfjk

think sub panel/electricity, like @ home friend

i need to do sum research to see & know B-4 i care to share here/sry, but IT /\/ a bIT tY* nostr:npub13w5j2cz6ym36lvun2rnk66h5udlfrv08aq6w8753r42xlrsul5wsnf8n65

cut outz*\*ya

Even if you practice ideal opsec possible given the permissions, the range of bitchat is maybe the length of a city block in ideal conditions. I think that is more of a false sense of security than a useful tool. LoRA blows that range out of the water and there is elevated repeater infrastructure in a lot of places, but still most people hear no one on their meshtastic node and ultimately it just goes in a drawer to be forgotten.

You can't fully. If you transmit wirelessly a motivated attacker can foxhunt you. Listeners are all safe from being triangulated which helps.

There are scales of trackable though. Precise location uploaded to the internet to data brokers r us is easier for the state than being forced to come out and foxhunt you personally. Also pay attention to the difference between broadcast type transmissions and handshake type transmissions. A ham radio can be on and never transmit. Many can have transmit disabled to prevent accidents. A Bluetooth, cell, or wifi device always transmits looking for peers the moment you turn it on.

If you need a level of opsec for a threat model where being personally hunted is an issue... Scheduled short checkins from random locations at random times. This is a broadcast not a conversation because of the safety of listeners. A ham foxhunt on 2m takes 2 hours or so depending, pros with better resources will be faster. You need to be able to complete transmission, tear down, and be gone before they can locate and get to you. You also need to be truly random. Keep in mind that from first key-down they have a rough idea of your location that gets more precise over time. Also they have travel time to get to the location they triangulated. This means that not getting caught doesn't mean they didn't know where you were. The implication here is that your random locations can't add up to drawing a 5 mile circle around your base. They also can't repeat because the hunters can stage teams close to known previous transmission sites.

This is awesome, thanks!

Any chance you can go on a similar rant sometime about what this could look like for masses/groups of people? ๐Ÿ˜…

Example scenario: group of activists or degens + their frens + family = small community of people, with some normies and some degens sprinkled in

Objective: Just comms? ๐Ÿ’ฌ

How do they merely communicate with each other without being tracked by the govt/state/insurgent entities?

Buying everyone ham radios ๐Ÿ“ป is seeming like quite the uphill task just yet, but agree it will make life easy.

HF is expensive and high skill. Probably best reserved for long range needs. City to city or to get out of the country. This will have to be handled by a dedicated comms guy with skills and knowledge. It isn't like becoming a nuclear physicist but don't expect someone to pick it up and go like a blister pack walkie talkie.

Even for HT style Ham radios are usually expensive and always more complicated. Unless you have ham repeaters they are probably an unnecessary barrier to entry.

Blister pack radios in FRS, GMRS, or MURS are much easier because they are channelized and cheaper than all but baofengs or other Chinese ham radios. FRS and GMRS share frequencies which makes them interoperable. A carefully chosen ham HT can talk and listen on all 3 of those.

Most radios for FRS, GMRS, and MURS will say they offer thousands of "privacy" channels using DCS or CTCSS. That is a lie, disable those tones completely. Those settings deafen you to people who aren't running the same code but by turning it off you can hear everyone no matter what code they use.

All of those are broadcast style services that never transmit unless you key the transmitter. You can listen forever and never have your location triangulated.

Even with those you lose the convenience of phones. Carefully planned transmissions of information coded using manual encryption techniques, think numbers stations, is going to offer the best privacy.

At a certain level of insurgent type situation you have to break the modern always connected bidirectionally mindset. People in the know will broadcast limited critical information to many silent listeners after careful planning only.

Threats are everywhere. The question is what is the oppositions skill and dedication to finding you personally. No amount of care will make you invincible. Remember the Israeli icom supply chain attack?

Totally. Thanks for this man, will dig in, look up a bunch of terms, take some notes, then look up some of the more easier to buy devices and see if we can buy around 5 devices for a certain radius of frens and fam to start with.

The Israeli pager attack was so simple it was cruelly genius, typical Mossad - effective with gross disregard for life. Then they also let in smartphones into Gaza while they were starving people, so they could replicate the same with all the phones sent in.

Reading your comment I was reminded of the Episode Metalhead from Black Mirror S4E5. That robo dog that is a smaller, sleeker, more lethal and efficient version of Boston Dynamics 'Spot' dog gave me the shudders then, as it does now. Though the efficiency of that device, with the denoting into trackers and such - insane and genius.

Tough times a-coming. We should all be prepping.

When you get some time, you could write the same info you've added in all the comments here, throw em into an editor LLM and publish a #Nostr note on " #FreedomTech for n00bs - what to do when your Nation State takes down your internet" kinda thing. Would be very helpful!

#TheMoreYouKnow #PrivacyRefuge #TechnofeudalRefuge