lol we live in a clown world
Discussion
Itās that bad, huh?
I wonder if Mike's Johnson is guilty?
Mad mad World
Have you seen his face? Johnson weirdo to the max, probably had an AirBNB on Epstein island :)
maybe more people will wake up. itās becoming so obvious
Iām pretty down to fight some demons.
Itās pretty obvious that something none of them thought about has come to light, and it terrifies them. Guys who have been preaching the release of the files for years suddenly went āUhhh on second thought, letās not do thatā. Itās not whatever peopleās favorite theory is; itās something under ānone of the aboveā.
It's ISRAEL. (The government, Not ze jews) Aipac funds all of them.
Haha, literally thought of this when typing that.
Aliens just really like watching Boomer celebrities fuck.
Itās almost willful ignorance to believe we are ever getting all the information.
About anything..
Ridiculous upon Ridiculous š š š upon insane ...
look, the biden being senile coverup went on for too long, but eventually the democrats ditched his ass for kamala (didn't like her either).
but the republicans in congress actively aiding and abetting the hiding of the trump pedophile papers so bondi has time to photoshop some docs and cut a plea deal with Maxwell to say trump never raped kids... this is just next level sycophantic
Trump used to rape kids. nostr:nprofile1qqs8cajagp7n48275ytuhzuxn93g2crc0lqgfgx8dta2gjdlh5fpmpqpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumt0wd68ytnsw43z7qgewaehxw309aex2mrp0yh8xmn0wf6zuum0vd5kzmp0vcwa70 and nostr:nprofile1qqs0x4sg8v2xzwg8dfcjpcpj08pggchz62wxlu2gga2a9zwq42wl3wspzfmhxue69uhhqatjwpkx2urpvuhx2ucprfmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuumwdae8gtnnda3kjctv9ukqpheeyc say he is now a Christian man and gave up kid fucking after finding god after his assasination attempt
PRAISE JESUS.
guys this is just a conspiracy theory š
This ship needs a mutiny.
A worthy listen. Pretty apparent the U.S. is occupied by foreign actors and the only way this come to light is if the creatures in D.C. get removed:
https://www.youtube.com/live/0BGfo4yiCc8?si=gLb7czFhHtdmXbLG
š¤” aināt it the truest thingā¦ circus vibes without even buying a ticket!
I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic... So help me God.
nostr:nprofile1qqs8cajagp7n48275ytuhzuxn93g2crc0lqgfgx8dta2gjdlh5fpmpqpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumt0wd68ytnsw43z7qgewaehxw309aex2mrp0yh8xmn0wf6zuum0vd5kzmp0vcwa70 says 2 weeks till everything is released. Trust the plan.
Oh, I bet he will
Biden deleted the files. Trump will re release the files in two weeks
The Q is strong in this one. š
Trump is not on the list. The demonrat elites released a cgi image of trump and Epstein to destroy trump. nostr:nprofile1qqs8cajagp7n48275ytuhzuxn93g2crc0lqgfgx8dta2gjdlh5fpmpqpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumt0wd68ytnsw43z7qgewaehxw309aex2mrp0yh8xmn0wf6zuum0vd5kzmp0vcwa70 and nostr:nprofile1qqs0x4sg8v2xzwg8dfcjpcpj08pggchz62wxlu2gga2a9zwq42wl3wspzfmhxue69uhhqatjwpkx2urpvuhx2ucprfmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuumwdae8gtnnda3kjctv9ukqpheeyc say that we must stay the course. Trump used to be a pedo file and fuck kids on an island but found god and Jesus after his assasination attempt.
lol
Mike Johnson is a good toadie.
Trump isn't on an Epstein list because he is pals with the people who trained and controlled Epstein. Johnson, on the other hand, š¤·āāļø.
"Wish politicians would look out for miners, and not just minors on an island somewhere"
nostr:nprofile1qqsp4lsvwn3aw7zwh2f6tcl6249xa6cpj2x3yuu6azaysvncdqywxmgpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduq3samnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwwdhx7un59eek7cmfv9kqhat86g said he would vote for trump again regardless if he was a pedo. What a cuck
tell me you're compromised without telling me you're compromised
āæig Time
The QAnon people have arrived. Time to shut down the Nostr.
Nah... Clowns are funny. These people are straight up demons.
alwayshasbeen.jpeg
The sad part this is one of dadās fav politicians. He also only watches Fox News lol
I thought there are no files
Only one thing could get such a response... Those files must implicate Israel.
Yall mother fuckers voted for Trump because āHeās good for bitcoinā. Mother fuckers out here trading wealth for the protection of pedophiles. Please stand the fuck up and say something to me.
It's both sides who have exposed individuals and they're covering each other's butts.
nostr:nprofile1qqsp4lsvwn3aw7zwh2f6tcl6249xa6cpj2x3yuu6azaysvncdqywxmgpvemhxue69uhkv6tvw3jhytnwdaehgu3wwa5kuef0dec82c33wf6xcutrvyu8ydnpw4ukzae4dc6ksvmvx56ryvnyd568xunex4j85en9v56rvwfkveck2wrnxeckwatyddenwer2w3n8x0mzwfhkzerrv9ehg0t5wf6k2qgjwaehxw309ahkvenrdpskjm3wwp6kyf5qgdj would vote for him again he said. nostr:nprofile1qqsp4lsvwn3aw7zwh2f6tcl6249xa6cpj2x3yuu6azaysvncdqywxmgpvemhxue69uhkv6tvw3jhytnwdaehgu3wwa5kuef0dec82c33wf6xcutrvyu8ydnpw4ukzae4dc6ksvmvx56ryvnyd568xunex4j85en9v56rvwfkveck2wrnxeckwatyddenwer2w3n8x0mzwfhkzerrv9ehg0t5wf6k2qgjwaehxw309ahkvenrdpskjm3wwp6kyf5qgdj says he is an upholder of judeo Christian values.
nostr:nprofile1qqsp4lsvwn3aw7zwh2f6tcl6249xa6cpj2x3yuu6azaysvncdqywxmgpr9mhxue69uhhqatjv9mxjerp9ehx7um5wghxcctwvsqs6amnwvaz7tmwdaejumr0dsjnv598 is good at playing both sides. He has not and could not stand in an intellectual debate.
What would you like to debate about?
Last time it was capitalism and you dip out without answering questions. But, Iām game for anything, even college football.
How do you see me playing both sides in your opinion? In my opinion Itās pretty obvious Iām a right libertarian.
It would be a hard pill for you to swallow but a bitcoiner and right libertarian donāt line upā¦especially if you believe that the āChristianā god would support trump.
nostr:nprofile1qqsp4lsvwn3aw7zwh2f6tcl6249xa6cpj2x3yuu6azaysvncdqywxmgpvemhxue69uhkv6tvw3jhytnwdaehgu3wwa5kuef0dec82c33wf6xcutrvyu8ydnpw4ukzae4dc6ksvmvx56ryvnyd568xunex4j85en9v56rvwfkveck2wrnxeckwatyddenwer2w3n8x0mzwfhkzerrv9ehg0t5wf6k2qgjwaehxw309ahkvenrdpskjm3wwp6kyf5qgdj asserts that Donald j trump upholds the judeo Christian values that make the USA what it is today.
Please educate me. Why donāt bitcoin and right libertarians line up.
Youāre doing it again.
Touch grass, listen to some Ozzy. Actually fuck Ozzy, animal abuser.
Listen to some Tom Petty. Heās dead too.
Tom petty rules frfr
Bitcoin is opposed to capitalism. The teachings of Jesus go against capitalism. Simple.
lol
Exactly the opposite on Jesus and Capitalism. You need to read a LOT of books and study a LOT of history.
What we have now in the world, central Governments creating dependency world wide, stealing our energy/work with fiat, and feeding the world fake food (seed oils, wheat, sugar) is against capitalism - and ruining humanity.
Read the book, "Bitcoin and the Bible" -
You need to research whoās tables Jesus was flipping and why.
Now youāre blaming central governments for things brought to you by the race to the bottom capitalist goods and services. I live paying more for shittier stuff to keep the shareholders pockets lined for creating absolutely no proof of work at all
That's not the capitalist, it's the money.
Even if you make better stuff today, it won't sell - you are in a downward spiral created by fiat.
Read all of nostr:nprofile1qyt8wumn8ghj7ct5d3shxtnwdaehgu3wd3skueqpz4mhxue69uhk2er9dchxummnw3ezumrpdejqqgzr08nkh7nk4q9cmw02wkfprkgtk0n8kgszlzyqe384ll3qv5rp453f6g5h books and it will make sense. It's a deep read by "Principles of Economics" does a medium dive into this - not deep - but also not the first book on history of money someone should read.
Your perspective is a HUGE problem - because the solution is truly Capitalism with good/services - AND with money (private fixed real money, not fiat).
Study #Bitcoin - study hard - it's a once in a 1000 year opportunity. In a decade Bitcoin will grow with the productivity of humanity. First it has to eat all the misdirected capital (which is what you are frustrated with). And the growth is a 100X in a decade or two (sorta depends on how bad we mismanage the world fiat system).
Iām fully aware of bitcoin and what it is. Iāve also read saifdeans bitcoin standard I believe right when it came out. I enjoyed it. Especially the bits about the history of money and its nature as a technology.
Unfortunately though, I feel the same way about your perspective. I defended capitalism for decades until I couldnāt anymore. Iāve also considered the argument that our current environment isnāt true capitalism. While I understand where it comes from I still see it as an appeal to purity.
If I remember correctly Ammous characterizes rent seeking behaviors as a negative feature of fiat which I agree with. However rent seeking is not exclusive to fiat currencies. Bitcoin is superior to gold in almost every way but gold is still a good money and most bitcoiners know itās long history. That history includes gold as payment for rent. Itās clear to me that this rent seeking is not only enabled by capitalistic behavior but encouraged. Rent seeking and profit motives at the cost of workers is a feature of capitalism. You may find it ironic that understanding bitcoins proof of work mechanism is one of the main reasons that I now see capitalism for what it is. It inspires the non worker (capitalist) to extort the labor (proof of work) of the worker. It depends on extracting wealth from others.
The period between WW2 and the 70ās saw a shrinking wealth gap brought about by a hybrid economy of capitalism under a high amount of government regulation as well as strong labor unions. Reaganās administration destroyed both of those driving forces that mitigated the rampant inequality of capitalism and now we see a wealth divide that seems like the gilded age 2.0.
The proliferation of fiat may very well have been the last nail in the coffin but at best capitalism exacerbated it but I suspect it is actually responsible for pushing us in the coffin in the first place. I do not refute that there a few benefits to capitalism, but the same is true for other economic systems like socialism and communism as well. The benefits definitely do not outweigh the costs. I donāt claim to have an answer for a replacement of our current structure but Iām quite certain I will never defend capitalism again.
"The period between WW2 and the 70ās saw a shrinking wealth gap brought about by a hybrid economy of capitalism under a high amount of government regulation as well as strong labor unions. "
That's what history tells us. But it's not exactly right.
In the 1800's (still a real Gold standard) we invented trains, autos, electricity, communications - it was the last big 'bubble' of innovation (driven by hard money).
As this efficiency worked it's way into the economies of the world the wealth gap decreased for nearly 100 years. BUT - politicians implemented this thing in the early 1900's called the 'income tax' (temporary I might add) that actually ROBBED the general population for the next 100+ years of that efficiency (which created poverty we know today - it's true - central government planning creates poverty, not solve it). In spite of the income tax, wealth gap closed and the the politicians did not steel ALL the deflationary progress. They did not have too, they got filthy rich - it was an epic run!
We are at the end of that cycle - we have been for 50 years (the US dollar actually would have collapsed in the 70's if we did not cheat and go off the Gold standard - which had been decaying for decades).
Follow nostr:nprofile1qy2hwumn8ghj7etyv4hzumn0wd68ytnvv9hxgqgdwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkcqpqs05p3ha7en49dv8429tkk07nnfa9pcwczkf5x5qrdraqshxdje9sgew2ua and read his book "Price of Tomorrow" - great read. Deep dive it. Go beyond just the book - as Jeff says we have NEVER lived in a true free market until #Bitcoin.
Conclusion. Capitalism created all you have today. Fiat has been stealing the benefits and funneling it to those closest to the money printer for decades. Deflation is the natural state of Capitalism and once the theft (taxers and printing) are GREATER than the deflationary pressures of real economic gains, the pyramid collapses (which it is doing right now).
The natural state of human innovation is capitalism - the exchange of (base layer here) REAL energy for REAL energy (you catch a fish I trade for a fur to make a coat - exchange of ENERGY).
Bitcoin will bring us back to that as it's real human energy maximizing time preference of money (which drives innovation). nostr:nprofile1qyt8wumn8ghj7ct5d3shxtnwdaehgu3wd3skueqpz4mhxue69uhk2er9dchxummnw3ezumrpdejqqgzr08nkh7nk4q9cmw02wkfprkgtk0n8kgszlzyqe384ll3qv5rp453f6g5h book "Principles of Economics" does a great job explaining this concept.
Also deep dive history of civilization. It seems like this has nothing to do with money but capitalism with a currency (real money, not fake) was the ONLY combination that created civilization. Without it, we would still be in packs of 150 people or so living off the land.
"The proliferation of fiat may very well have been the last nail in the coffin but at best capitalism exacerbated it but I suspect it is actually responsible for pushing us in the coffin in the first place."
You are correct, fiat was/is the nail in the coffin of capitalism - it did NOT exacerbate it, but ruined it (history shows it always does) - we have been straying from capitalism for decades - over half a century. Some would say since the income tax over 100 years ago. World War solidified fiat.
Capitalism is just the REAL exchange of human energy - something you have that I want and something I have that you want. A 'currency' is needed because what you want is not always what I have - so it allows our ENERGY to be translated to a medium of exchange. IF that medium of echange does NOT represent real human energy (which #Bitcoin does and Gold did it okay but was ALWAYS corrupted) than capitalism dies.
Hate to see people get mislead on the Capitalism issue - remember the Communists (collectivist) have been hammering on real capitalism for centuries. Why? So a few can control the narrative/people/production/power.
Who cares what āJesusā says. Itās all a myth anyways
400 people saw him after the crucifixion.
Plato has less written about him, but you believe Plato existed
Youāre so smart. Iām converted!
Yes Iāve heard these arguments before.
š¤·āāļø
Nobody says Muhammed or Buddha as a swear
This proves it. Satan exists!
It proves that they believe in Jesus
I say Jesus fucking Christ all of the time. Probably has more to do with where I was born because Iāve yet to encounter any evidence whatsoever that any god exists. Lucky you to be born where the one true god is the most popular out of the thousands
Then why say it? You only say it because it's a sin to take the Lord's name in vain.
Who cares what a random anon calls a sin
Fuck Muhammad, Jesus and all the other fake gods
There is no god. Itās a meaningless thing to take a name in vain
Sure lol
Muhammed never claimed to be GOD.
The universe didn't create itself
Read a science book
Where does space come from?
Science only proves GOD more, but I get what you're saying.
You donāt get what Iām saying.
Science does not prove god more. Anything by Richard Dawkins is great. Peter Boggossian
This is true, but most his followers are zealots without knowledge.
Thought teachings opposed to usury. That word starts with a letter much further down the alphabet than capitalism. The alphabet is a series of letters used to represent sounds. We use those to make words which can use in order to read and write sentences which can assist in the passing on of knowledge. We call this learning. Itās pretty cool shit
It wasnāt usury.
We've got alot of education to do...I'll start
capitalism
noun
capĀ·āiĀ·ātalĀ·āism Ėka-pÉ-tÉ-Ėliz-Ém Ėkap-tÉ-
: an economic system characterized by private ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market
Capitalism canāt exist in a free market. We got a lot of education to do. Go back and read Adam Smiths work.
I've read The Wealth of Nations and The Theory of Moral Sentiments. I didnt have that as a take-away. Are you thinking of some different?
Well, Adam Smith literally states that you need limited government, so yes, that is my take away. Who decides whatās your property and who defends that title for you?
What did Adam Smith warn about with #capitalism?
the word "capitalism." emerged in the 19th century, to describe the economic system that Smithās ideas in The Wealth of Nations (1776) helped shape. Smith used terms like "commercial society" or "system of natural liberty" to describe a market-driven economy where individuals pursue self-interest under minimal government interference, which aligns with what we now call capitalism.
Okay, thank you for some google searches. When you said āminimal government interferenceā is that free markets?
Nah.
nostr:npub1as4sff7klh4d5vdxg5ec5jajwp43r8w6rhnf264t520cy0ph79zqkrvfdz Are you one of the people that doesnāt believe in Jesus - but is also an expert on Jesus ?
Every time.
It reminds me of this amazing hilarious cartoon video of atheists declaring they donāt believe in Jesus ābut he definitely would not doā¦ā¦ā
I would not say expert but I studied the Bible for 10 years and pretty well versed. But correct, I do not think god had sex with a virgin from āheavenā to make a son die to condemn some and save some.
Bitcoin isn't opposed to anything. It isn't sentient. Good grief š¤¦
It doesnāt take a conscious for two objects or ideologies to oppose one and another. Think about magnets.
š That's one of the dumbest comparisons I've come across in a long time.
Iām sorry you feel that way. Maybe you need to reply with a more cogent response and we could clarify together.
I'm not the one coming up with absurd statements such as Bitcoin opposes capitalism and then compares that to magnets. Goodbye.
No no my friend, I didnāt compare bitcoin to magnets. You made the statement that it was sentient and therefore could oppose anythingā¦I was pointing out the flaw in such a statement. Goodbye buddy.
what? can you explain both of those?
hahahaha! this should be good.
I'm not sure why I feel compelled to enter into these exchanges. They definitely help me clarify my thinking but not sure they serve much more purpose than that!
Bitcoin is proof of work, capitalism is not. The only time Jesus got physically mad was to flip the tables of those profiting off others.
My understanding of his anger was that business was happening in the temple, not that it was about profit. Did he really think that no one should earn from their labor? If someone grows food and sells it to someone who needs food, Jesus would get mad because that means the former is profiting off of the latter? I'm no expert on the Bible, but that sounds very odd to me.
Current "capitalism" as practiced in most countries is probably more proof of stake than of work, but that's the "crony" part of crony capitalism and in any case based on a monopoly over the money supply, which is about as far from capitalism as one can get.
If we replace the words "free trade" for "capitalism" do you still think bitcoin is in opposition to it?
Letās just start with the first sentences and question. He was angry that people were profiting in his fathers house (one could argue the whole world is his house) and they were profiting off those buying sacrifices for god AND didnāt have much. Sacrifices were essential to their way of living, and profiting off the people for this angered him.
Nobody said anything about not being compensated for work performed. Profit and compensation are not the same.
profit is simply that you make more on a trade than you put into it. Could be marginally more or much more, depending on the situation.
"Profiting off of others' [work, misery, situation]" can certainly be morally questionable. Still, I would argue that any system that imposes restrictions to limit this - because a few folks get to decide on that morality - is far more problematic.
That's not a case you're making but I'm not sure how to limit that (essentially how to prevent ppl from being assholes) without creating a far worse situation.
I am an anarchist at heart and wish to change peopleās ideology and not rely on force from the State. However, my endeavors are met with staunch resistance as I am called a communist and a socialist.
But, if you think about it, if #capitalism met the needs of the majority, there would be no stomach or room for social policies.
#bitcoin nostr:npub1rtlqca8r6auyaw5n5h3l5422dm4sry5dzfee4696fqe8s6qgudks7djtfs
I wonder if most of the disagreement is semantic. Many folks use "capitalism" interchangeably with "free trade," so when they hear you coming out strongly against capitalism, they assume you are advocating for central planning.
Do you have an example of a capitalist society? In my view, central banking precludes capitalism, and in fact encourages corporatism - which knocks out most present-day countries from consideration.
First paragraph is spot on.
I tend to start out by asking the capitalist if they have a society or time period of ātrueā capitalism that I can study. None have risen to the question.
But I do think that ātheirā misunderstanding of what free markets are and capitalism is not my fault. If you act like you know something, but clearly have not read anything other than quotesā¦you deserve some ridicule.
I would argue capitalism always turns ācronyā and so would Adam Smith.
Yes - makes sense to me.
Haven't read Adam Smith - is on my list. But I can see this.
Kind of how democracy can devolve into whatever we have now in so many countries.
It is refreshing to have a conversation with someone open minded. I can assure you, if you can present a sound case with logic and reason, I will capitulate on my opinions as well.
Adam Smith is a must read, as well as Joseph Schumpeter.
If we replace capitalism with free trade, then no, bitcoin does not oppose free trade. Very insightful question, thank you for asking that.
Wut? Last time I checked free market capitalism and bitcoin go hand in hand.
Capitalism cannot exist in a free market. Read Adam Smiths works.
His arguments directly support the coexistence of capitalism and free markets.
That is an oxymoron. Free markets means Iām free to beat your ass and take what you claim is yours.
Capitalism relies of socialized protection and court system to uphold your rights to whatever property you claim.
I don't think that is what free markets mean at all.
Oh, well what is your definition of free markets? Or hell, what is your definition of free?
I agree with those definitions but unrestricted doesn't mean you can assault someone to take their property.....it means no government intervention.
Unfortunately my friend, āfreeā and āfree marketsā mean exactly that.
Ever heard the phrase āI prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.ā
I know it sucks, but you my friend are defending a position you do not know so well.
You have to have a governing body or a group of consenting peoples to rules for capitalism to exist. Those things are called government intervention. Who defends your property rights now?
I don't see how having a government that enforces private property rights prevents having a free market.
Does any of these definitions work?
Free market capitalism was forged in the furnace of Christendom
Free market doesnāt mean what you think it doesā¦and this is so far fetched Iām gonna to guess you are making fun of Christians.
I started writing this then used #Grok to finish it for more comprehensive verse references:
Jesus wasn't advocating for centralized economic control; he emphasized personal agency, diligence, and stewardship. Biblical evidence aligns him with authentic capitalism:
- He affirmed private property through the Decalogue's prohibitions against theft and covetousness, forming the bedrock of ownership and voluntary exchange (Exodus 20:15,17; Matthew 19:18-19).
- The Parable of the Talents commends entrepreneurial investment and risk-taking for profit, while condemning indolenceāepitomizing market-driven innovation (Matthew 25:14-30).
- He asserted that laborers merit their wages, underscoring merit-based compensation over entitlements (Luke 10:7).
- In the Vineyard Parable, he defended employers' autonomy in wage agreements, highlighting contractual freedom and private enterprise (Matthew 20:1-16).
- By linking self-love to neighborly love, he implied that rational self-interest, via mutual trades, fosters communal goodānot avarice, but enlightened reciprocity (Matthew 22:39).
- Echoing Pauline doctrine, he endorsed the principle that idleness forfeits sustenance, fueling capitalism's ethos of productivity and meritocracy (2 Thessalonians 3:10).
- The Talents narrative tacitly approves interest accrual, portraying capital growth as expected and virtuous (Matthew 25:27).
- Granting humanity dominion over creation encourages resourceful utilization, better realized in free markets than coercive redistribution (Genesis 1:28).
Well done. āThe truth will set you freeā
Why did Jesus flip tables?
He was against usury
The was not the reason, but Iām sure you can use the internet to find a copy of the Bible.
Jesus wasnāt focused on condemning interest (usury) per se in this moment. He was defending the sanctity of Godās house protesting how commerce and greed had polluted what was supposed to be a place of reverence and inclusion.
Jesus was a capitalist. ā But he answered one of them and said, āFriend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14 Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you. 15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Mat. 20:13-15
That verse does not make Jesus a capitalist at all.
"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money." -Matthew 6:24
Either you have to change the words of Jesus in the Bible, or change the tenets of capitalism. Canāt have both. This verse is not even up for interpretationā¦it says what it says. Case closed.
āIs it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things?ā
This is a prime of example of how the owner asserts control over his property a key tenet of capitalism. Also, capitalism values individual ownership and the freedom to dispose of property and wealth as one sees fit.
How about āfreedom of contract?ā
āDidnāt you agree to work for a denarius?ā The landowner and laborers entered a voluntary agreement, which is a core element of free-market economics.
No coercion occurred the contracts were honored. Free market capitalism 101.
Lastly, unequal outcomes, equal agreements though the outcomes (wages vs. hours worked) are unequal in effort, the terms were fair by agreement. This mirrors capitalism where equal opportunity does not mean equal outcomes.
Case closed? My friend, you just quoted Jesus warning against serving money, not using it. Capitalism isnāt about worshipping wealth itās about freedom. And freedom, like grace, doesnāt cease to be good just because some people abuse it.
Jesus flipping tables wasnāt a protest of trade it was a protest of corruption. You want to put Mammon on trial? Fine. But donāt drag free enterprise into the defendantās chair without understanding the difference.
Jesus didnāt preach capitalism but He also didnāt command central planning. The problem isnāt making money; itās the LOVE of money.
If youāre a Christian you should
re-read Ecclesiastes and if youāre not maybe start with John?
You are so confused that you try to re interpret a quote that is very clear. Capitalism is clearly the pursuit of profit. Profit is typically measured in money.
You can twist, turn, and cherry pick quotes all you want, you cannot change that quote I shared and Jesus said love thy enemy.
Whatever mental gymnastics you like to do in order to sleep, do it, just donāt think you are always speaking to someone who doesnāt know more about the Bible than you.
Youāre right I would never presume to know more about the Bible than you. Itās only by His grace I know any scripture at all. In fact, the more I learn the more I realize how little I actually know.
āThe humble He guides in justice, And the humble He teaches His way.ā Psalm 25:9
People used those some of those same quotes to justify slavery. Different era, same shit.
Youāre right I would never presume to know more about the Bible than you. Itās only by His grace I know any scripture at all. In fact, the more I learn the more I realize how little I actually know.
āThe humble He guides in justice, And the humble He teaches His way.ā Psalm 25:9
Very interesting given that even Jewish law prohibited usury, though, admittedly, does allow it when dealing with non-Jews.
Though, there are equity based banking models as well. Yield isn't synonymous with usurious interest based lending.
This is genuinely one of the most interesting things I've seen on Nostrš¤£
Have you read the 10th commandment? "Go get your own."
Awww, this reminds me of Jennifer Aniston. Also, I bet you felt good posting this didnāt you? Lol
nostr:nprofile1qqswc2cy5lt0m6k6xxny2vu2fwe8q6c3nhdpme54d24698uz8smlz3qpr9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezummsv4hx7unyv4uzummjvuq3yamnwvaz7tmsw4e8qmr9wpskwtn9wvtr47fd Oh please expand. I canāt wait to hear your explanation of this one šæ
Ask a question, I would love to.
Erā¦ The question is already impliedā¦, How is Bitcoin opposed to capitalism, and how do the teachings of Jesus go against capitalism?
Bitcoin is proof of work, capitalism is proof of stake. Jesus flips tables when people profit from the poor. Also camel, needle, rich man, and heaven kind of shit. Sorry, thought that answer was implied.
Proof of work/stake being either christian or non-christian is a ridiculous argument. The methods are irrelevant. That's like saying addition is secular and multiplication is christian. It's what you do with it that determines how much it is aligned with ideologies.
Jesus didn't go around to marketplaces attempting to disrupt business exchanges. As a carpenter he had many marketplace interactions himself. He "turned tables" when they tried turning his fathers house into a marketplace. Christianity champions individual responsibility, diligence, and the wise stewardship of God-given talents, all cornerstones of free market capitalism, where innovation flourishes, and voluntary exchange empowers individuals. Free market capitalism which, by the way, you can never have under a fiat money system that controls who the winners are. Jesus encouraged dignity of honest work, the right to build and create, and the profound generosity that springs from prosperity. Far from being at odds, a vibrant faith tradition finds its economic reflection in the freedom to produce, to serve, and to give. This isn't just theory; it's the bedrock of a society where enterprise meets ethics, enriching lives and fostering true community.
Was not saying Jesus was against proof of stake, that pertained only to bitcoin and capitalism.
I can tell you rely on Christianity for a large portion of who you areā¦good for you.
Letās take religion out of the equation and just say free markets and capitalism are not synonymous. Capitalism relies on State coercion and enforcement to exist.
Sounds like youāre not talking about free market capitalism then are you? The masses believe actual capitalism is correctly represented by the corporate led economy we see today. Is that your belief as well?
I can only rely on the parameters set by those who champion capitalism. Capitalism can NOT exists without government intervention, therefore, there is no free market capitalismā¦unless you want to change the definition of free markets.
āā¦set by those who champion capitalismā interesting since the classics have been stricken from most curriculums over the past 30years by the captured 95+ democrat educators theyāve installed. Whole generations donāt know what capitalism is.
Free markets and capitalism are natural states. They can of course be facilitated and supported by government but they exist naturally in the absence of governments. Here are some correct definitions.
Free Markets: a system of voluntary peaceful, mutually beneficial trades between free individuals without government interference. Prices are determined by supply and demand, free from coercion or regulation. Fostering an environment where innovation, quality, variety and affordability are incentivized naturally by the preferences and choices of individuals.
Capitalism: the economic system that emerges naturally from free markets, where private property, individual liberty, and voluntary exchange are paramount. It maximizes personal freedom and economic efficiency through unrestrained production, and supply and demand. Naturally incentivizing mutual protection of property rights, agreements, and preventing monopolies. Able to exist without any state role, it is commerce with the fullest expression of individual freedom and non-aggression.
These definitions come from some of the strongest and experts and advocates of capitalism. If you disagree with them then letās hear your definitions.
Free Markets: a system of voluntary peaceful, mutually beneficial trades between free individuals without government interference. Prices are determined by supply and demand, free from coercion or regulation. Fostering an environment where innovation, quality, variety and affordability are incentivized naturally by the preferences and choices of individuals.
This is copy and pasted from your last response. To be clear, I do not disagree with it. But, free markets have nothing to do with capitalism. Iām not sure how you are confused on that and I want to understand where you are not understanding.
If you have āproperty rightsā AND need to enforce those property rights, AND need a court system to settle disputes on property rightsā¦where do you think or how do you think that all happens? Who pays for it? Who decides who plays what roles? Surely you can see what Iām saying now.
I think the only person I quoted was you, at the beginning of my post. The rest is my written definition based on 25years of following pinnacle champions of capitalism like Rothbard, Bastiat, Hayek, Mises, Sowell, Freedman, and so on.
It would seem that your belief that capitalism as we defined here is dependent on government protected property rights. Why? Nature already solves for this. Free people work to create, claim and maintain valuable property as their own. As such they allow others to do the same. For the infrequent times where those who donāt respect this natural system try to violate it and steal from others, others have the ability they were born with to protect it them selves. Where disputes occur government can be a tool but isnāt required. People can go to whatever lengths they prefer to reach fair agreement. If disrespect for the system and theft becomes predominant then the system and its benefits diminish and society suffers. So it would seem that although having a procapitalism government as a protector could be helpful, it is not required. Rather, what is required is a people who respect and protect the natural capitalism system and everyoneās rights to property and ability to freely exchange. Government isnāt required and furthermore can be corrupted and become the largest hinderance. ā¦which is where we are today.
Whatās the earliest form of property rights?
Do you know who Adam Smith is?
What period of time did capitalism operate without intervention?
Property is a natural human right so, ā¦the earliest form possible. All of this occurs and exists naturally the moment people begin to exist and interact. If two people just appeared in the woods together theyād trade things for their own beneifit and you have one key component of capitalismāa free market. You sound, like many, stuck in the common mindset that nothing can occur without government. Thatās belief is one of the most beneficial to governments and authoritarians who want control over people. ā¦While everything actually does function before government exists. Government is introduced as an efficiency tool but comes with the danger of monopolizing the whole system till it is anything but efficient and becomes the largest problem. Everyone agrees to hire a town sheriff to make it easier to protect their properties from violators but with every amount of power the people give him, he can misuse it for his own benefit. And if he acquires a majority of power he can do whatever he pleases, essentially eliminating freedom of all people entirely. So with government comes the heavy responsibility to keep it small, in check, and subordinate to people and their natural human rights.
Nope, Iām an anarchist. Property rights cannot exist without enforcement. It was a trick question that you somehow superseded the research of all anthropologists and historians to claim that property rights and capitalism always existed.
You should publish a paper on this and reap the accolades of such a profound discovery.
I see your points and sure I agree with Adam Smith. Much of what he wrote didnāt focus so much to natural human rights. He was more concerned with defining how an economic system could be governed and saw government as an inevitability. Which it is, like power tools are an eventual inevitability for construction.
However Smith does not make the absolute claim that property cannot exist without an empowered government intermediary or authority. Instead, he said the basis of property arises naturally from human labor, possession, and social recognition (see his discussions of early societies and moral sentiments for that).
Experts asideā¦ truth speaks for itself. Citations are helpful sure, but especially if you are dependent on statements from an authority or expert. In the end, all individuals will disagree on something.
In summaryā¦ āProperty rights cannot exist without enforcementā from who? Only government? In my example of two people in the woods naturally trading, they mutually enforce each otherās property. No government intermediary needed. However everything they are doing to self-govern that situation is inline with Adam smith. So if you simply expand your definition of government to include self-governance by the individual parties then we probably agree. But it sounds like you would restrict your definition of government to require the empowerment of an intermediary over the parties.
Your first paragraph contradicts the last thing you wrote to me.
But hey, if it makes you happy, make capitalism into whatever you like. Itās perfectly clear that if these things are ānaturalā, in your eyes, there is no argument. There is nothing anyone can say. You cannot logic and reason your way out of something you did not reason your way into.
DEBATE UPDATE:
This started with my desire for you to substantiate your claims that āBitcoin is opposed to capitalismā and āThe teachings of Jesus go against capitalism.ā
Farthest we got on those was that after I pointed out that Jesus participated in capitalism you wanted to get away from religion so we moved to define capitalism. After my defining and substantiation that free markets, capitalism and property rights occur naturally. You provided in your last post comments that were not specific enough to be meaningful, and seem to show you feel unwilling or unable to make further progress.
CURRENT CLAIM STATUS:
āBitcoin is opposed to capitalismā
= UNSUBSTANTIATED
āThe teachings of Jesus go against capitalism.ā
= REFUTED
āā
Since you show deep belief that governmental authority must be involved, Iāll assume your statement that youāre an anarchist was a joke, and that youād like to empower an intermediary to validate this debate update.
If you need that I nominate nostr:nprofile1qqsp4lsvwn3aw7zwh2f6tcl6249xa6cpj2x3yuu6azaysvncdqywxmgpvemhxue69uhkv6tvw3jhytnwdaehgu3wwa5kuef0dec82c33wf6xcutrvyu8ydnpw4ukzae4dc6ksvmvx56ryvnyd568xunex4j85en9v56rvwfkveck2wrnxeckwatyddenwer2w3n8x0mzwfhkzerrv9ehg0t5wf6k2qgcwaehxw309ac8yetdd96k6tnswf5k6ctv9ehx2aqyxwxz8 š
lol, like a pigeon strutting around the chess table kicking and shitting claiming victory! Go claim your prize.
Mmmk š¤ You can concede, forfeit, or further substantiate your claims and maintain your integrity. Ad hominem attacks are none of these. They seek to discredit opponents and retain the appearance of continued persistance while detracting from the goal of substanting your claims.
Matthew 6:24
New International Version
24 āNo one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.
Here you go Christian. Explain.
Your reason for choosing this could be several. I can assume but shouldnāt. Tell me how you think it supports your claim/s and Iāll respond.
One because it was words of Jesus. Two, itās very clear and canāt be twisted. Three, capitalism thrives of self interest motivation of profitsā¦money.
Pretty simple really. āServingā money as someone āservesā their God is its own end purpose. It is worship as though the money is your God and the most important thing.
In contrast āpursuingā money can have many other purposes including being generous to others and helping the poor and needy.
Beinf āselfishā is not the same as tending to your own āself-interestsā or personal needs. Same reason you have to spend time becoming healthy in order to serve others well, or put your oxygen mask on first to breathe in order to help many others breathe. It scales well too. The more fit you are and the better you can breathe the larger the masses you can help.
So the purposes of pursuing money for generosity align well with the purpose of capitalismāto provide mutual benefit and ongoing increase to all through simple free fair trade, and fostering increased freedom, agency, responsibility and mutual respect (and love :)).
So basically the ends justify any means. Itās okay to take from āhereā and give to āthereā?
Iām trying slow the movement of the target, so bear with with me please.
No. Oversimplifying or misrepresenting my specific statement, or generalizing it into an extreme or distorted version (suggesting āanything goesā or implying it condones something bad) to make it easier to attack would be a strawman fallacy
My statement means that specifically the pursuit of generosity justifies the means of free and fair markets to fund that generosity. ā¦specifically.
Although free fair market capitalism is ājustifiedā by many of itās inherent benefits.
Believe me friend, Iām not trying to misrepresent. You are making broad statements and implying they are factual just because.
Do you have examples of this accumulation for only charitable purposes?
Also, still waiting for a time period of ātrueā capitalism.
To clarifyā¦ you want me to provide examples of charitable people or entities whose resources were acquired through capitalism in order to prove it is possible?
Also, Iām not sure what you mean by āwaiting for a time periodā of true capitalism.
Yes.
A time period or place where ātrueā capitalism was able to function without any interference.
Hey buddy, you were strutting around claiming some kind of victory, then abandoned me cause you didnāt want to answer two simple questions.
Do another one of your cute āDebate Updatesā I got a good laugh out of that.
It sounds like youāre saying free and fair market capitalism is a strong way to generate wealth that can fuel generosity, like philanthropy or social good, and that this outcome justifies using capitalism as a tool. I agree capitalism has benefits, like innovation and efficiency, but Iām curious, do you think the pursuit of generosity is the main justification for capitalism, or just one of many? Also, how do you define free and fair markets in this context, given issues like inequality or monopolies?
Not only that, but you have also told Adam Smith that he had no idea what he was talking aboutā¦the āfatherā of capitalism.
This is why citations are important. It gives a concrete reference point for both parties and forces both parties to read instead of posting opinions as facts.
If you are going to quote please reference sources, if not, I will think you are using AI on a bias and thatās just sad.
Whew, that was a lot of responding this AM but I think I got everybodyās personal attacks covered and confused understandings on the way to clarity.
Now nostr:nprofile1qqsp4lsvwn3aw7zwh2f6tcl6249xa6cpj2x3yuu6azaysvncdqywxmgpr9mhxue69uhhqatjv9mxjerp9ehx7um5wghxcctwvsqs6amnwvaz7tmwdaejumr0dsjnv598 would you like to continue?
If I were you, stop, pivot, letās talk about something subjective like sports.
Oh yeah youāre the dude who hates capitalism. Didnāt we already debate??
nostr:nprofile1qqs0x4sg8v2xzwg8dfcjpcpj08pggchz62wxlu2gga2a9zwq42wl3wsprfmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuumwdae8gtnnda3kjctv9ukqz9nhwden5te0wfjkccte9ec8y6tdv9kzumn9wsqyam5m and nostr:nprofile1qqs8cajagp7n48275ytuhzuxn93g2crc0lqgfgx8dta2gjdlh5fpmpqpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumt0wd68ytnsw43z7qgkwaehxw309ajkgetw9ehx7um5wghxcctwvshs4vkued say Donald j trump is not a pedo and is a Christian man after his assasination attempt. He fucked kids while he was friends with Epstein but realized he was in the wrong.
Pretty sure he won that election because Biden was a vegetable and people knew the DNC and media had been playing them. Thatās it. Trump would have lost to anyone else if the DNC had been honest (Kamala wouldnāt have been the candidate in that scenario). But they donāt trust people to think, so they tried to push her through.
I'm one of those mother fuckers that stood up for Trump and I make no excuses. No apology either.
I traded Harris for Trump.
I traded open borders for closed borders.
I traded DEI for merit.
I traded for BTC as part of the reserve currency basket.
I traded for red tape removal of regulations top heavy with government bureaucratic over reach.
I traded for the waste, fraud and abuse unraveled by DOGE.
However.....
I did not trade for the continued support of Ukraine.
Or the genocide by Israel AND USA against Gaza
Or the Pakistani bombing of India
Or the data collection contracts by the Tech Corporations
Or the push to explode the debt to a point of no return
And now we have the Epstein files.
Bondi and Patel have sacrificed their credibility.
The heroine is Tulsi Gabbard unraveling the Deep State players, namely the Bush father and son duo, the Clinton husband and wife team and especially Barack Obama.
Who falls next over the Epstein files, will see the big guns coming out to mute, to cover up and the English language stretched to its maximum.
No wonder those in control wanted Trump dead. He's uncontrollable, unpredictable and has in place a strong powerful team that have enough grit to keep the government stable, while the debt flies out of control.
My opinion - the Epstein files should be Trump's undoing. Pedophilia has victims that are perfect and come back broken.
So, I expect a lot of pedophiles will be exporting themselves to Israel.
I note that Bill Gates wasn't on the 92 page Epstein list.
You are incorrect Blue Duck.
This motherfucker didn't do it for the money/ profit.
This motherfucker did it for the BTC and Nostr protocol regardless of who was in governance .
At the end you literally made my point. Congrats to you. You could have saved the word salad.
I didnāt vote for Trump. Bitcoin isnāt opposed to anything, itās a software protocol. Iām still super confused about this anti capitalism sentiment. Why is it bad for me to provide value by selling a good or service? This provides people with something they want, provides for my family, and creates jobs for people who want work. Itās all voluntary for all parties involved. This is just the natural way of life. How is this bad?
Providing value or exchanging goods does not go against Bitcoin or Christianity. Profiting off others labor is opposed to both.
If I pay somebody $30 an hour to help me work, itās a voluntary exchange of labor for money. Whatās the problem with this? I need the help, they need the money, we both profit from the exchange. Trying to somehow prevent this is interfering with individualsā freedom to cooperate with each other.
Owning the means of production is rent seeking behavior. No way around that. Yes, freedom to enter into a contract is ethical but you will see throughout history, proof of work tends to show whoās NOT working when revolts happened. Historically, by the time the revolt happens the capital has the means to quell any opposition. Plenty of examples of that. That is why itās an ideology change. If people are on the fringes of starvationā¦they will typically accept any ācontractā to at least eat. Thatās not ethical or moral.
Ok, so because I own a small local business that I myself work full time operating, and I voluntarily pay double the minimum wage to people who are happy to come and help me out for extra cash, that means I āown the means of productionā? That is so much mental gymnastics lol.
Iāve owned a few businesses in my life, traditional like you speak of and āemployee ownedā.
No, I would never say itās immoral or unethical if you are only getting paid for what you produce OR others that produce for the business get paid accordingly as well.
Itās important not to jump ahead or put words into someoneās mouth.
I guess Iām just trying to figure out how thatās not capitalism.
We can start by exploring what you think the tenets of capitalism are?
Well to me it is privately owned businesses producing goods or services for a free market. I donāt consider what we have in America or the west in general to be capitalism, but rather crony corporatism, corporate socialism, or some form of soft fascism.
Do you have a time period or place where ātrueā capitalism has taken place?
No, itās just a spectrum. I think the times and places with the freest markets have generated the most wealth for the most people. Any other system besides a completely free market is coercive by definition. What gives any government the legitimacy to decide which goods or services should be legal? As a person whoās entire life has occurred during the drug prohibition era started by Nixon, the idea that the state should be able to regulate any market has been delegitimized to me from a very young age.
See, thatās where you lose me. Capitalism is like this religion that can come and go as it pleases. Never really here, never really there and avoids all accountability.
I am not for use of force, and I donāt want to see any State intervention. This is why I am trying to convince these ācapitalistsā to be the change. Stop chasing profits and hoarding wealth.
What exactly is it you are proposing instead then? People freely choosing to do business with each other is the most peaceful and prosperity-producing arrangement possible as far as I can tell.
I think you are right, as long as we are not exploiting each other and resources for profit. I also think a mix of things would be nice to try. Like taking profits out of life essentials. Bitcoin will help facilitate this change but it is also a change in ideology.
isn't it literally an admission of guilt at that point? I understand that in order to be a politician you have to be at least 1, oftentimes 2, standard deviations below the mean in IQ, but this logic just does not compute... even trying to put myself in his shoes, I just can't think of a reason to do this other than if the files are damaging to him, to someone he cares about or someone who has dirt on him
What files?
this will be nostr:nprofile1qy0hwumn8ghj7cnfw33k76twd4shs6tdv9kxjum5wvhx7mnvd9hx2qg4waehxw309ajkgetw9ehx7um5wghxcctwvsqzq3e0gs8jnmued6f2rp4c6vs07xqvs4vs8zpwt82smcdch4txjvq76kl2yj on this week's nostr:nprofile1qyf8wumn8ghj7cnfw3ehgctrdvhxzursqy28wumn8ghj7cnvv9ehgu3wvcmh5tnc09aqqgy9hk6cwhs38hxfjjvtgarrv3ycsthptgw8s922kp7qvk68xwwkwg05kxcv : "Yeah... umm, I haven't really looked into republican congress hiding trump's child raping, not sure I know enough about it to comment here"
nostr:nprofile1qqsqfjg4mth7uwp307nng3z2em3ep2pxnljczzezg8j7dhf58ha7ejgeyqy52 - hold him accountable ;)
š„“
Literally everyone is on the list.
Itās willful ignorance to believe we are operating with all the information.
Regarding well, anything..
These people in government and the elite are subjects of the ruler of this world, how else do you expect them to act?
It's another corrupt official. This kind of thing is commonplace. The money they embezzle is enough to buy several luxury yachts. Recently, I saw them buying a yacht on yachttrading. They have already bought several yachts on this platform. It must be because the quality of this platform is too good. https://www.yachttrading.com/
He doth protest too much.
I don't have particular political affiliations and didn't vote in this election but am happy to see one thing that seems relatively new to me: people who did vote for Trump holding him to account over Epstein.
A pedophile ring with state protection - or even taking the admin's word for it, a pedophile with state protection - is the essence of the swamp. Whatever is happening behind the scenes (I'm sure there's a bunch that we can't even guess at), a whole lot of Trump voters are pissed and quite loud about it.
Released the files
Desperate situation calls for desperate measures...
to quote you from many instances in life, "what a dumb bitch"