My thoughts on Damus last update, sorry, I'm a free soul ๐
Discussion
Very well said #[1]โ , I donโt 100% enjoy the latest update as well. I think that likes are a way to say โhey, I viewed your postโ and without them nostr will feel less engaging.
You have good thoughts and I respect this. Since I already wrote a reply to a different post, Iโll link it here! ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
nostr:note17huzvduvs6297rym7tu00kd25wr5emxx4ja9c3ercdp7vvfk7ueqljfhzg
I also respect your thoughts very much ๐๐ถ, in fact, it's an interesting way of looking at it.
But in this case, I see something, how shall I put it, forced?
True! Old habits die hard. IMHO ๐ค๐ป should have never been added to nostr protocol. Itโs a relic of the past. Remember when Google was spreading their +1 BS all over the internet? People resisted and then accepted it. I donโt say it was good, but we get used to bad as well as good things equally.
When I joined here, I had no idea about Bitcoin culture or people. Then I learned a bit. If I understood it correctly, itโs all about proof of work, value. Value is not only sats, peopleโs time and attention also. I think itโs only fair to have exchange of values. If one can pay in sats, so be it. If it can be paid in engagement and reply, even better.
Itโs just my opinion and we are in uncharted waters. If we donโt try something new, it doesnโt make us any different from other places!
๐ถ๐พ๐ซก๐ซ
I think we basically agree, value for value should be the basis of a modern society.
But, the criticism is towards the (lack) of freedom, let me explain. I would understand that by enabling the option, the user himself would no longer see the "like" icon. But, and very importan, for this to affect the experience of others is a red, red line for me.
Makes sense. But I am trying to find a balance. What if people donโt want to receive likes? With zaps itโs easy, remove LN and good to go. With likes, there was no way. Sure I can disable notifications for them, but that was the only option.
Likes is not a great signal. It tells nothing to the people. We are conditioned to like, heart, plus one, etc. Even big players moving away from likes.
With nostr and no algo, likes play no role, just a distraction. As I said, itโs relics of the past that we just canโt let go of.
๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
That is exactly what I propose, when this option is activated the user must stops seeing likes. But if others want to continue giving a like, nobody should take this freedom away from them. I don't know if I make myself clear.
I think this intermediate solution could be good for everyone.
I like it when someone likes a post of mine, it shows me their support, and it's a simple, quick and, in my opinion, necessary interaction.
What good conversations #[2]โ ๐
#[4]โ here, shit stirrer since the 80โs
Should everyone be forced to accept zaps? If you do not accept zaps I cannot zap you. Likes are legacy stuff, but what purpose do they really serve?
I am not saying they should disappear, just saying we should wonder and talk about it.
As I replied just now, the consumption of resources by likes is very high. If they bring value, then they should be evolved somehow! ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
Itโs just a head nod while listeningโฆ expand it to a full set of emotional reactions and it could have value.
True! I can go with that! ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
๐ trust
๐คฎ disgust
๐ก anger
๐ฐ fear
๐ญ sadness
๐joy
Dunno what to use for the other two 
Case in point. See, with multicultural and multilingual community, fixed set will never work or will be interpreted as intended! ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
Can we build a wheel like interface? ๐คฃ๐คฃ๐คฃ I can just push the 2d slider towards my emotion and have a lil picture of #[4]โ face reacting to the prompt
๐คฃ๐คฃ๐คฃ๐คฃ
Seriously, it's not a bad idea at all.
Problem is that emotions arenโt that simpleโฆ 
But, dual input could pretty much be used to generate all human emotions known to man
Yes Gek, human emotions are known to man
๐คฃ๐คฃ๐คฃ๐คฃ
Dark one incomingโฆ
Mistakes are often an excellent source of comedy. People should love and celebrate their mistakes more, like I do with my son.
Laughing at yourself is a strong quality Iโd say
๐คฃ๐คฃ๐คฃ new player has entered the game
I am serious, this is a very interesting debate. I like this path much more than the other one. #[4]โ You have very good ideas, I think we should go down this road towards something that describes feelings as accurately as possible. No money, that to me is a far cry from sincere support.
I just don't understand why we want to kill the quickest and easiest way to send a wink (support, ping, call it what you will) to someone.
Yeah, I was looking at it from the introvert perspective last night (which I am, just good at hiding it most days). The like is a silent reminder that youโre there, listening. Forcing the repost is not always appropriate. I just hope that people will understand that they are missing out by not engaging more with the notes. (And that renotes display will be changed)
Introvert here too ๐ Following these conversations with much interest as I come across them. I donโt mind sending/receiving โreactionsโ but I am trying the Onlyzaps mode for now because itโs new. Even before this feature I often reply with just 1 or 2 emojis a that express more than a like. We see that all over Nostr with ๐ซ. Thatโs even how ๐ค became the default reaction on Damus. It started as a popular reply. The absence of a reaction button doesnโt take away that option, and Iโm more likely to look at who replied than who reacted.
On the earlier point by Quentin about it being a red line when my settings affect other userโs experience or ability to interact with me, I see it directly. For instance, if I donโt want to receive zaps and I donโt add a lightning address, then I am deciding for all other users that they wonโt see a โก๏ธ button at all on my posts or profile, and that they canโt zap me. A zap is a Nostr event just like a reaction. Why is it OK for me to limit everyoneโs ability to send me a kind-9735 event if I donโt want to receive it, but not a kind-7 event? Or what if future features allow turning off replies on a post, or limiting them to just followers? Turning off DMs?
In each case these would affect how everyone can interact with me, and I think that is the better way to approach it. It puts me in control of setting the boundaries I want on what other people can send me. Forcing me to accept likes/reactions from anyone and everyone on Nostr, sounds far more intrusive than me having the option to not receive them.
Again, Iโm not a โnever-likerโ ๐ and after this experiment may turn them back on, but I do think the way itโs currently implemented puts the right person in control.
Very good point of view. The analogy with the LN address is a good one, but I don't think it can be compared, if I don't have a LN address it's clear that you won't be able to send me sats. But this is as if (in real life) you directly reject any interaction with someone who has no money or way to talk to you directly. Where will that wink, smile, look be, translated to the virtual environment? The like button can evolve, but I don't see anything clear about removing it.
It gives me the feeling that it is an attempt to promote the zaps, to move money. With my friends I love to apply value for value, I help them with a website, they help me with something else. Putting money in the middle usually spoils everything.
What a great conversation, I love it!
I donโt think it is removing option from the user to interact. I think it is very one sided view. If someone posts sad news about something, how do you interpret like! It is extremely limited and easy to misunderstand option that was invented for the sake of algorithms. It has no value. Reply with like, plus one, heart, ๐ค๐ป, whatever. Still better than the meaningless like, IMHO. And yes, thatโs the hill I am choosing to die on. ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
Iโll push just a little because it doesnโt remove the ability for anyone to talk to me directly. There are comments for that. And regarding the point about adding or not adding the lightning address, I was simply giving that as an example of a setting I can enable now that affects how everyone can interact with me, but nobody has complained about that as infringing on their experience. Some people really do want to send sats, and Iโve seen several times when users ask someone why they donโt have a lightning address.
I am in agreement with you that not every human interaction needs to have a monetary component. The challenge I find with likes is that whatever meaning they have, and I believe they can be meaningful, has been sullied by years of vanity use and spam on other social networks. โDoing it for the likes.โ Experimenting with changes to that is worthwhile.
And yes excellent conversation. Iโm enjoying hearing various perspectives on this. Now hereโs a nickel for your time ๐ ๐๐ซ
The underlying problem is that we start from years of vain shit-influencers, so the trend is to kill the like. But I think that the like is a light and quick way to express a feeling (here there is a debate on the forms, for example habla.news does solve it very well), we are going to fill the conversations of comments with a ๐ค, this for me is going backwards.
Your turn ๐
I imagine fewer people would comment than would click โlikeโ but I see what you mean shout it potentially cluttering replies if they did. Weโre actually more in agreement on this than not. I believe likes are a useful way of communicating something sometimes. Where I think we disagree is on who should have control. What I hear you saying is that I should not be able to affect your ability to send me a reaction. I disagree with that. I should have that control. And giving you the option to send it while I simply donโt see it negates their use as a communication tool. At that point it is only to make you feel better for having pressed a button.
It's not a question of feeling better, those who don't have this option activated will also see it, it serves to see what you have liked over time (yourself) and in the other hand you are questioning how the current mute option works, it just works the way I would like the (misnamed) onlyzaps to work.
Donโt mess with introverts when they decide to speak ๐ซ๐
Iโm a talkative introvert (talking once I feel comfortable enough is my way of fighting the urge to retreat inside, so hard to make me shut up once I start and if I shut up for too long, Iโm gone, getting lost inside my head while listening. )
I got a super introvert friend, the kind of pleb that you want to cheer when he gets talkative. But you always want to listen when he speaks, not because he is always right, but because you know that he has listened and considered before taking.
Anyway, thank you for attending my psychoanalysis session.
Regarding Onlyzaps
The beauty of Nostr is that if there is a NIP it can be implemented. Relays can decide to support the NIPs they want, Clients can support (or give option to users to enable or disable) the NIPs they wish, plebs can chose their relays and their clients.
I could argue that itโs unfair that Damus does not support long form notes. That my deepest thoughts go unnoticed by most of my network. I could if I wanted to play devils advocate and stir shit up.
โฆ
Itโs unfair that NIP23 is not supported by Damus! Couldnโt we at least have the summary and a way to quickly go to full version (maybe giving option in app settings to redirect to a web client for now)
All good points again, fren. As for the support of NIP-xyz, there is always option to contribute to the project via code. If you canโt, find friends who can, or post a bounty. People who develop products have their priorities and no obligations to the user if itโs free. Making new features is hard, maintaining them is even more so! Every line of code added sucks resources and time from the developers! ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
Absolutely know that, I am in no way or shape asking for features to be implemented (bugs being fixed howeverโฆ)
Just a way to present the โlikes must stay for everyone, everywhere, foreverโ argument differently.
Ok, makes sense! ๐ถ๐พ๐ซ
Should have added a lil sarcastic signature at the end, sorry.
๐ถ๐พ๐๐คฃ๐ซ
I usually do something to contradict myself in those events, forgot
Sorry I communicate in weird ways sometimes, even for myself then I think about it for days โdid I really say: you have the beard of someone who drinks a lot beerโฆ. To someone I had just metโฆ ๐ณ did I? Yup I did. ๐คฃ
Socializing, tough business to some of us ๐คฃ
*I see it differently โฆ not directly
Mainvolume be like lay off the drugs man when you see me.
#eof
๐๐ค
Wouldnโt replying an emoji be just as effective and probably quicker? This is overly complicated and messy. Replies are already a great solution for when more emotion needs to be expressed.
๐ค
From a protocol perspective, theyโre almost identical anyway. A reaction note uses the โcontentโ field to contain the single character reaction, usually โ+โ or โ๐โ, but Iโve seen others like โ๐พโ. The difference is that reactions use kind=7 whereas regular notes are of kind=1.
A nostr client could choose to interpret and display single-character/emoji reply notes (kind=1) as reactions. This would allow the full range of emoji reactions while adding some friction (takes more steps to post an emoji reply than just tapping a reaction button).
Yet another way to abuse it by the client. If Damus chose to display like as skull, that would definitely be a wrong signal at extreme. So, I say note with sig is way to go. User types in the content, and that is what is displayed! ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
Removing likes to foster engagement, not encourage more zaps
๐ถ๐พ๐ฏ
Maybe the UI should show other users your preference. So for example, when Iโm looking at your post today, I see a like button and a zap button. Somewhere in the UI it could show me that you donโt see reactions (likes) and prefer content responses.
I donโt know what this UI would look like. It could be a ๐ค emoji inside of a ๐ซ or something to show that I can still do the like, but that you wonโt see it.
This is just an idea, but you see where Iโm going. Your preference for a content response is reasonable. As is my preference to just tap the like button. Whats missing in the UI is a way for you to communicate your preference without inhibiting my range of actions.
Wet solid analytics mate
๐คโก๏ธ
Very good idea, It solves everything and allows everyone to experience it in their own way ๐
On the other hand, nice to meet you ๐
I am curious, what would you get out of a reaction to the post that nobody but you can see? Will simple โackโ I saw it and consider it read be the solution? ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
It will be seen by everyone who doesn't have that enabled. And also to know what you have liked before ๐
Then maybe โackโ is it? What if I do not what to have likes display together with my note? What if I donโt want people to sway others by their โreactionsโ? Should I have that choice? Or should you have a choice to affect my content? ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
> What if I do not what to have likes display together with my note?
In the abstract, it is impossible to prevent your usersโ clients from asking relays for reactions and aggregating the results. Uncensorability is a foundational principle of the nostr protocol.
It is possible for client implementations to honor your preference and hide that information from other users. Damus is trying this out with OnlyZaps.
Users who donโt want to have that information hidden can choose to use other clients which do not censor reactions.
Thatโs my point. Having any sort of reactions will impact how itโs perceived and read by other users. I am saying that presence of reactions that are prone to manipulation and misinterpretation is not a good thing. ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
So you are questioning the method we have now to mute trolls, they still affect your content, and that's fine. It's up to each of us, (the others) whether this user is a troll to us or not. Applying this to likes, in my point of view, is a winning option.
If itโs only me: I could be using the reaction function as a bookmark. Later, I can browse my likes to read things I had set aside. Or maybe later I want to search through my liked notes to remember some topic or dredge up an old link.
Good point. I used to do that on the Twitter app before they fixed the timeline auto refresh/jump. Maybe bookmark should be where likes used to be in Damus.
Probably would, exploring what couldsโฆ it really is only a 2 x 2D data points that can display fullest of human emotions.
#[3]โ made the point that emoji can translate differently across culture
This could allow to separate the encoding of the emotion from the display (visual representation) with each culture decoding it itโs own way and users being able to chose via plug in how they wish to decode it
With two quick swipes you could say, this note surprises me and makes me angry! And so onโฆ
โโฆwith each culture decoding it itโs own way and users being able to chose via plug in how they wish to decode it.โ
We already have words. This just reinvents them. ๐
๐ถ๐พ๐ฏ
Again, just exploring what could. Words are not 2 data points on a 2 dimensional surface you could broadcast in under 3 seconds.
Yo
โฆ to let someone know exactly how you feel.
1 or two times x:y coordinates, thatโs it. To display fullest emotions known to mankind. There must be some potential hiding there somewhere
It would be overly complicated for what youโd get out of it. How often do you check to see if who all reacted to a post and which which reaction they used? We already have ๐ค and โค๏ธ reactions combined into one list but you only see that if you look at the reactions on that post. Comments are much more efficient for the recipient.
For disclosure, I wish for a future where I can build my simple algo in the client to create โwhat have I missedโ feeds that I can control.
Likes would be useful to keep to give another data input to the algo.
Donโt put too much weight on these ideas I throw out, they just pure exploration. By discussing them with other it helps me to better explore them, collective thinking out loud.
But if I am having a shitty day and I could quickly filter out all the posts that made people angry from my custom algo feed, Iโd love to be able to so
The challenge then becomes spam. On Twitter, for instance, someone could go buy hundreds or thousands of likes on a tweet through a 3rd party service. I saw someone do this last year and they won 1M sats in a meme contest because the winner was chosen solely on number of likes. ๐ When likes cost nothing or very little, they become an easy target. When something that costs very little becomes an input into an algorithm that could get your attention, now it becomes an attractive target. An easy attractive way to put information in front of lots of peopleโs eyes with the hopes of manipulating some into falling for scams, believing fake news, etc etc etc.
Since when forcing people to do something actually works? #[6]โ is not the only client out there
It has never worked, well sometimes it has ๐คฃ.
But I agree, there are more customers, but it's a pity that the most important nostr client (and the one that works best too ๐) makes these changes without generating a debate first.
My humble opinion, I open the umbrella โ๏ธโ๏ธโ๏ธโ๏ธโ๏ธโ๏ธโ๏ธโ๏ธ๐ ๐ โ๏ธโ๏ธโ๏ธโ๏ธโ๏ธ
We are still forgetting that itโs not in release. Itโs a test, nobody is forced to do anything! App Store version is still available! ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
By you turning on zaps only, that is forcing me ๐ to zap โก๏ธ
Feel free not to zap me, comment, sure. If this will make you feel better, Iโll remove my LN url just for you. Iโve done it before and Iโll do it again, just say a word! ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
That sounds a lot like an ultimatum ๐
Not really, at least not intentionally. What I am trying to say is, everyone should have a choice (to an extent) and we should all respect it! ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
All good. We just have to agree to disagree. ๐
Thatโs the way! I am glad we can actually talk as civilized people! Love you and this place! ๐ถ๐พ๐ซ๐๐๐
๐ค๐
๐๐ถ๐พ
It will be interesting to see what happens when there are more iOS native nostr client choices. If thereโs a client that lets me keep using likes, and Damus censors me, then Iโm switching.
There are already alternatives, look:
Yeah, maybe I should switch to Test Flight. Though if I did, my likes would already be censored. ๐
Of course, the debate is on the testflight version, that's for sure ๐
Also the word "force" is very harsh, I mean simply, couldn't it work the same as the current "mute" feature?
In fact I can make a quick shell script now to generate millions of new npubs and post โlikeโ note to any note. ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
Yes also with comments, or zaps of 1 sat. Pow is the solution for that ๐
POW on mobile is a literal killer feature. There are places for it, but I think this is not it. ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
You think? I didn't have that on my radar, why?
It will use more compute and hence more emu, which results in your phone dying quickly! ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
But only for events, so if you are not fishcake or quentin ๐คฃ๐คฃ and you only create ยฟ10? events a day should be affordable for a phone, i think
Every milliwatt counts. The cheaper you make it the more abuse you will have. ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
Agreed, also, a troller doesnt care about pow. Why would he? He can just run a heavier processing unit to bypass the pow.
The aim is to make it difficult for them, but I think the debate now is not about PoW but about yesterday's update.
Nice to meet you ๐
Nice to meet you too. What was the new update about? Something with zaps only right?
The point of PoW in the context of nostr posts is to make it costly to spam. Trolls have budgets just like everyone else.
NIP-13 describes how PoW can be delegated specifically to address the problem of low-power devices (mobile). One could pay a miner to mine a noteโs PoW.
You can do this on https://www.sats4likes.com
Iโve used it to pump a few things on Twitter. The whole thing is manipulated so I have no problem manipulating it to my ends and doing so with Sats to a #Nostrich dev.
Absolutely, then we need to address trustworthiness through a aggregated and uncoruptable trustworthiness rating model, just typing this feels Orwellian but methods of addressing trustworthiness rating at least for commercial exchanges at protocol level could be interesting Trust is hard to earn over time, and easily lost.
I like this approach, but it's as easy as changing the new option so that if you don't want to see them it's fine, but if I want to give you a like it should be fine too.
Nostr is fundamentally freedom (for me), it is true that I have freedom to change my client ๐คฃ, but I think it should be discussed before (just as we are doing ๐คฃ) before launching new features that take away freedom from the user.
The feature is in TestFlight, itโs not launched. We are doing experimentation. Hence I am saying that we should give it time and see how it works. For what I care, Iโll hate it tomorrow maybe! ๐ถ๐พ๐๐คฃ
๐ถ๐พ๐ซ๐คฃ
There is one more problem that you have to consider, relays. The number off like events and their consumption of resources is unreasonably high! ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
nostr:note1gnq2awtr6qugyx3uzmmmhx4afnlzhpv99yu2lmcmkpgk7uqz2v3q099n3u
If we talk about resources we are just shifting the problem to the LN ๐คฃ, I don't think that is the solution.
The protocol is set up like this from the beginning, each interaction is a note, this opens up another very interesting debate as well ๐
We need to get on nest for that. My fingers are giving up already! ๐ถ๐พ๐๐คฃ๐
Yes!! ๐
But I don't think we have much influence, at least as far as I'm concerned ๐
The beauty of open source is that I can fork it and run my own show. If it catches on, then we win. No influence required! ๐ถ๐พ๐ซ๐คฃ
A lot of what makes Nostr great is experimentation. Damus has brought a lot of new innovation and change by moving fast and breaking things.
One risk with Damus as the largest app, is it can overly influence network changes that may be bad long term (behaviours, or inefficient NIPs, or whatever), but are great short term experiments.
Value for value is a developing area for individuals, and thatโs great. Lots of benefits to individuals having fewer middlemen, more control and the ability to diversify their income easily - single income mindset drives economic inequality (not saying working 2+ full time jobs is better either). Iโm deriving V4V here as โpay what you wantโ effectively.
Business however will struggle to adopt a V4V approach, as V4V is missing a key free market analog - setting a market price. Same as Apple prices is lowest product to baseline itโs more popular and higher costs products; without a instant gauge on what the seller is willing to price something at, the buyer has no idea how much is fair to pay. Other reasons like businesses recurring costs, salaries, etc, but even ignoring them, V4V has a fundamental problem.
And in terms of reactions not having value in comparison to zaps.. here was what I wrote earlier. I think itโs rubbish, and an extension of a tipping culture ideology, where unless you financially transact, it has no value.
The best counter point is simple manners - you donโt tip $0.01 instead of saying thank you to a cashier.
nostr:note1zqaus4mmth6m0tugvnqqqsl3yueaf8k7c6542hpy4me7ql0w4sfq9r9f74
Exactly, monetising a hug, a thank you, a support makes no sense to me.
I do not see it as the intention. Favor comments and reposts seems to be what people are doing as a reaction
Sure, but that comes at a cost.
Say 10 people now reply with ๐ค instead of a the reaction. You canโt easily summarise that (like reactions do). Did they really โreplyโ when using a ๐ค, or really did they really just gesture?
Does this mean my notifications now need filtering of โreactions as repliesโ? Do I need to look at each reply or ๐ค, as an individual response?
Iโd wager more toward this being a per client app query/display setting for an account, as opposed to a global โdonโt send me reactionsโ preference. Without wide adoption anyway, youโll still receive reactions - which you can just skip querying for kind 7 in your favourite apps.
๐
Exactly! That's what freedom is all about! ๐
Nice to meet you #[3]โ ๐
I understand, mostly. One thing I did not expect was people reacting fairly strongly to not being able to send the like. If I do not wish to see it, why should you get to send it. Itโs an extra note going to relays and I have decided I want to remove that from my footprint.
Of course, I am trying all this with Onlyzaps off ๐คทโโ๏ธ
I canโt speak personally to being upset that you canโt react to some people. You can react in other apps, that person likely just wonโt see it.
I kind of see the new Damus approach as being like โcomments are disabled for this videoโ on YouTube - but for reactions. I get an author may not want to deal with controversial comments below their content. Or even the time to read them - however other people will.
I guess being able to react, vs having it removed from other peoples app, experience is the key frustration.
Should any content be free from being able to respond to in an open web? Should a Nostrpedia page about abortion be able to be locked or reject replies/comments/whatever?
Itโs complex, hard, and probably always a gray area.
I don't really see a problem if someone doesn't want to receive likes. You can disable the notifications, I can also assume an option on your side not to show it at all.
But, done this way, you can force the whole protocol and all other apps to remove it, I don't like that.
I don't like forcing, it's like when you mute someone is perfect. I think the current system is more convenient, you just don't hear them but you don't restrict their freedom to continue trolling ๐คฃ๐คฃ
Currently, the reaction feature is mostly used for likes, but it's not limited to that. Here are the top 30 reactions my node has seen in the last couple of days (with counts):
["+",259104]
["๐ค",141352]
["โ ๏ธ",1720]
["๐",911]
["๐",504]
["โค๏ธ",433]
["๐",401]
["๐ฅ",324]
["๐",248]
["๐ฎ",196]
["๐ญ",180]
["๐ค",125]
["๐ฅ",117]
["๐ฅ",109]
["โก๏ธ",105]
["๐คฃ",104]
["๐ฉ",96]
["๐ฝ",72]
["๐พ",70]
["๐ฎ",69]
["๐ง",68]
["๐ฎ",58]
["๐๐ป",54]
["๐",52]
["๐",51]
["๐ฆด",48]
["๐",48]
["๐",45]
["๐",43]
["๐ฏ",37]
Which client is giving users the hamburger reaction as an option? I need it. ๐
nostrgram.co/?nows=1 or snort.social / semisol.snort.dev
Looking at the data in my node, here's the list of "client" values seen in all reactions (kind=7 notes) my node has seen:
astral
BIJA
coracle
gossip
nostr_console
Since well-known client implementations like Damus aren't listed, I take this to mean that it's uncommon for client applications to tag their reactions.
To make a long story short, I can't tell from the data alone where the hamburgers are coming from.
๐๐คฃ
All I know is that it is good to see I spark a debate. Itโs an optional feature people can enable to test if wished.
Itโs good, the community feels invested. This is key for when the cat is out of the bag and potential of Nostr starts to really show.
When we can start to say more and more โsorry Sir, for that better use Nostr. Canโt really do it on legacy web. No need for shitcoins thereโ
โNo need for shitcoins thereโ I love it ๐คฃ๐คฃ
Because the reaction ("like") isn't just for you (the note author). The reaction is also for the creator, to be able to go back and see the things they've liked in the past. The reactions may also be aggregated to provide signal to other observers.
Currently, "+" and "๐ค" are far and away the most popular reactions, but they're not the only ones. Here are some others that my node has seen in the last couple of days (with counts, to show relative frequency):
["+",259104]
["๐ค",141352]
["โ ๏ธ",1720]
["๐",911]
["๐",504]
["โค๏ธ",433]
["๐",401]
["๐ฅ",324]
["๐",248]
["๐ฎ",196]
["๐ญ",180]
["๐ค",125]
["๐ฅ",117]
["๐ฅ",109]
["โก๏ธ",105]
["๐คฃ",104]
["๐ฉ",96]
["๐ฝ",72]
["๐พ",70]
["๐ฎ",69]
["๐ง",68]
["๐ฎ",58]
["๐๐ป",54]
["๐",52]
["๐",51]
["๐ฆด",48]
["๐",48]
["๐",45]
["๐",43]
["๐ฏ",37]
Very good approach! I like the way you look at it.
The likes are for oneself too, of course! I feel that we have taken a wrong step, there is nothing wrong with that, but our responsibility (in my opinion) is to make self-criticism and evaluate if this change makes sense or not.
My point is the following, have we had the opportunity to give this opinion before? Maybe yes, but I updated yesterday in a routine way and all of a sudden I saw something very disruptive.
Was this discussed somewhere before? I donโt know ๐คทโโ๏ธ
๐ค
Interesting takes. I'm personally neutral on this until we see how it develops. Pushing hard for monetization can be problematic, but if you can still see and reply to those notes, I don't see a big problem. If this develops into a lot of empty comments like "+1" or "agree" then, has it really changed anything?
I am in favor of your main argument - freedom of choice, which trumps everything else, and you didn't need to try and justify it in any other way.
The additional examples or reasons you give are wrong.
When you interact with someone irl you are not riding on someone's infrastructure. I think one of the reasons they give for the changes is reducing cpu and memory load. This seems valid.
Then you also say that paid interactions force users to ground on the material aspects and away from emotion. But we know from fiat social media that the exact opposite is the true risk. Those who look for extreme engagement end up producing highly emotional content.
I like your point of view, but. Do you know that we are simply passing the load to the LN network? The overload argument doesn't make sense to me, people will comment, one kind of event will go down and another kind will go up.
Well yes, precisely. One kind of event that is purportedly assigned greater value (reposts, quotes, comments, zaps) will go up, while the other type with low or no value (reactions) goes down. That's precisely the argument they make and is correct. Economic incentive.
This is why I like Likes (re: your highlighted section). Likes *do* mean something. It's acknowledgement, which is very important.
Yes, just, 100% agree ๐
Great... Reddit is constantly removing good features, one by one. Are Nostr clients going to start doing the same now? Maybe do the accompanying Reddit thing of introducing useless crap one by one too, that sucks up bandwidth and processor power? And pointlessly reorganizing how the site looks? I have seen the latter on iris.to (web Nostr client) already.
If I could program, I would have made a client with the express purpose of avoiding these things...
It is a great disappointment ๐
Here's something to think about on Sunday.
If likes disappear and zaps are left. Are reboosts and single "๐ค "replies replacing it and we're reinventing things again as โ๏ธ saga shows now (there's a purple one now showing your previous elite status).
#[0]
The purple badge: github.com/roberrrt-s/legacy-verified-extension
There's always the choice to let the users to choose themselves
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