I recently discovered nostr:npub1exv22uulqnmlluszc4yk92jhs2e5ajcs6mu3t00a6avzjcalj9csm7d828
It reminds me of the kind of decentralization Nostr has but for a private chat client.
What other decentralized apps like these should I be looking at?
Discussion
Bitchat.
Have you seen reticulum.network and/or meshtastic? I like RF comms can be the next field of freedom tech liberation.
And ofc, bitchat
see nostr:npub10r8xl2njyepcw2zwv3a6dyufj4e4ajx86hz6v4ehu4gnpupxxp7stjt2p8
Bitchat?
Go #cybiko man, that's much more important than apps
WhiteNoise.
tox
I love using keet, really straight forward and easy to onboard people less inclined to new shit
Keets great
Meshtastic has been very fun when there are people around. White Noise and Bitchat are on watch list.
Meshtastic (https://meshtastic.org/)
Reticulum (https://reticulum.network/)
Matrix (https://matrix.org/)
WhiteNoise, based on nostr but app UX is really rough atm. (https://github.com/parres-hq/whitenoise).
Simplex is great. Very easy to host your own relays.
Try Deltachat for E2EE over email.
Not Another Protocol™
What do you think about Session?
They have a token now, so pass. Use Signal/Molly or even better SimpleX White Noise
I get you, just not sure why you don't like the app because of that.. the token incentivizes the people running a node to keep running it which helps make the app decentralized.
It runs on the mother of all shitcoins and it incentivizes generating wealth from nothing (staking) for a token used to “unlock, access, and interact with premium features offered in the Session ecosystem”
We have just launched Vector. nostr:npub1hrujuc08r4zcdtn0u6ts7u7apldcjqgftz0z7stmaaz9hwaf9jxs66f3yh
Decentralized, Open Source, Free to Use
End-to-End, No-Compromise Encryption
Invite Code: CSJCNVXG
https://github.com/VectorPrivacy
Send me a message if you test it out.
Comprehensive List
They should recommend Bitcoin for payments though. Lightning is more private than Monero.
That depends totally on many different factors. If you believe that you are likely misguided by supernet who gives focus on one aspect only.
nostr:npub1yxp7j36cfqws7yj0hkfu2mx25308u4zua6ud22zglxp98ayhh96s8c399s is very right. Plus, Monero doesn’t scale, ring signatures are too heavy. And you can’t audit it. Bitcoin + lightning + ecash is the best combination
Vast majority of Lightning users don't have very good privacy. They're either using custodial wallets or LSPs that see a lot. Ecash is cool, but custodial. Doesn't offer you sovereign privacy and there are problems with large payments being identifiable by the mint since it uses denomination buckets.
Even when you use Lightning correctly it's a trade-off between allowing third party hops to see at least partial amounts. Monero is better at hiding transaction amounts from third parties since it uses pedersen commitments. Lightning perhaps better for hiding from counter parties. But all depends how it's used.
Yep, except Moreno is going to ZERO against Bitcoin
With the US pushing hard for worldwide use of stablecoins, it looks like BTC as a UoA is a long way off, no matter how much printing happens. And the fact is, that Monero (along with Litecoin) has a proven history of beating USD inflation (XMR far better than LTC). Layer Bitcoin outranks both of these by a longshot, but it's popular use as a SoV and it's digital gold narative will ultimately reflect our exact current economic system.
#monero is great for privacy.
#monero has #xmrbazaar
#bitcoincash is #lightning fast!
#bitcoincash has #cashfusion for fungibilty
#bitcoincash has #MUSD decentralized #stablecoin
#bitcoincash has DeFi
#litecoin is the most used coin for purchases
#litecoin has fungibility
All three can be traded privately on #BasicSwap
When it comes to sovereignty & ease of use, these three make a winning team.
#XMR #BCH #LTC #forthewin
It can give you good privacy I guess but practically youd have to account for multiple aspects to come together to make it work so. Monero is hassle free and reliable 👍
There no multiple aspects to come together. Download nostr:npub1xnf02f60r9v0e5kty33a404dm79zr7z2eepyrk5gsq3m7pwvsz2sazlpr5, done
Can I download ZEUS, load it up and send USD 10k worth to anyone accepting LN and expect it to work or stay private 🤔
Yes.
I thought receiver and nodes on the route would need to offer sufficient capacity beforehand to even handle the transaction no? How would a route be formed to a node thats not connected to my part of the network yet? Wouldnt a exceptionally large transaction be recognized as such by nodes when balancing their channels? Maybe sending BTC 100 worth would be different? Sorry for giving so much questions but I have limited understanding of UX on LN
You can get a channel of that capacity from our LSP or open it to another peer of your choosing. As long as your channel partner is well connected you can reach virtually anywhere on the network.
Senders have exceptional privacy by default on Lightning. Larger amounts can have more difficulties, yes, but at this point the network has matured to the point that 10k is somewhat trivial and 100k is doable.
Ok thats sounds like what I thought. Routing and liquidity are limiting aspects to consider. The "senders have exceptional privacy by default" seems somewhat overblown as I dont think that would be the case for most users setups no? I also heard from many users they had issue sending succesfully or getting their channels closed even tho they said they have a non-custodial setup with fenix wallet. So even tho I dont know about Zeus itself, it seems like youd have to be quite educated to use it reliably. Thanks for elaborating your point 👍
It's doable, yes. But, how long would it take a newb to make this happen without any mistakes?
nostr:npub1xnf02f60r9v0e5kty33a404dm79zr7z2eepyrk5gsq3m7pwvsz2sazlpr5 and the lightning network are a joke. Compared to Monero (and Litecoin & Bitcoin Cash), on a scale of 1-10 the usability of Zeus is a 3 at best.
Unless you're using Muun, it takes a master's degree to set up these LN wallets. It's a fucking joke.
I guess you’ve not used nostr:npub1xnf02f60r9v0e5kty33a404dm79zr7z2eepyrk5gsq3m7pwvsz2sazlpr5 in a while. Or you’re blind.
Tried it again just the other week. Phoenix too. It's not that I can't get them too work, it's that there are too many steps and it takes too long. Generally more difficult than opening a bank account!
I know of better, faster ways to use crypto, and lightning is very, very low on the list.
White Noise like Signal but uses NOSTR I believe
I somehow missed following you. Didnt expect you to actually stick around on Nostr. Inspiring.
Followed.
Thank you for your feedback nostr:npub150rqupcva2ha9ne784n6he8eg0t5rcs9zsl42esvu5n9nas99wfqmgcee0 . Please feel free to reach out to me privately through the SimpleX app using the link below for a quick conversation.
But you are an imposter, a fake npub trying to use the same name and same picture as the real original. Gtfo
Simplex is a solid find — love its decentralized identity layer and E2EE.
For privacy-first, decentralized comms, also check out:
• Session – Oxen network, no phone number needed
• Briar – P2P mesh over Bluetooth/WiFi, no central servers
• Keet – Holepunch + Hyperswarm for real-time P2P chat and file sharing
All these tools, like Nostr, push towards a censorship-resistant, user-owned web — much like Bitcoin’s ethos for money and trustlessness.
Decentralization isn’t just tech, it’s a movement. 🛠️🔐 #Bitcoin #Nostr
White Noise is the nostr based SimpleX. Pretty new but promising.
nostr:npub1whtn0s68y3cs98zysa4nxrfzss5g5snhndv35tk5m2sudsr7ltms48r3ec
Simplex chat is the best messenger
Other apps include white noise, keychat, and 0xchat
There are no other apps worth mentioning
Aah yeah bitchat 😎
Congratulations on your discovery. This is the best messenger in terms of privacy/security in the last 20 years.
It's a young project in BETA right now but is developing really well, many NOSTR firsts like typing indicators, speech to text using only local ai, more file upload types, etc. Also probably one of the smallest and fastest clients I have seen. Not sure why the beta requires a referral code but if you need one: KNSPZNH1
Take a look at XMRchat (https://xmrchat.com/).
It is a platform like Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/) except paymenta to content creators and streamers are P2P and with Monero.
Interesting, can we have tiers like Patreon?
Due to the peer-to-peer non-custodial nature of the payments, the platform cannot sign transactions on senders' behalf. Each sender must actively sign each transaction they want to send. So it is not possible to set up a subscription plan with automatic regular payments.
They can, however, choose the amount they want to donate freely for each payment.
Its not like patreon at all? Its a monero based superchat like on youtube where you get to keep 100% of the donations 👍👍👍
check #0xchat ， the best nostr private chat client
XMPP and Delta Chat are also good options.
Nothing that keeps people using their default server list should be called "decentralized". If choosing your own server is not a key activity for the user, then there is no decentralization.
Then, run your own server.
I did. It wasn't enough. And at the time, I could track everybody else using it.
In what way? Seeing the IPs?
IP, time of messages, who is talking to who.
Hey. We love factual criticism, but this is misleading.
Who’s talking to whom - it’s what anybody can see in Nostr clients UI, and Nostr relays can see it as well.
SimpleX relays can’t see it since private routing via two independent relays became the default - it’s been more than a year.
And most Nostr clients don’t offer choosing servers as part of onboarding. Neither does Elements afaik 🤷♂️
SimpleX clients currently have 2 preconfigured operators and let users choose which to use during the onboarding. There are many 100s, maybe 1000s servers in SimpleX network - that you don’t see the list is a feature.
It's not misleading. I was running the version before that routing became a thing. Any person running your server could track everything. That made me give up the entire protocol at the time.
It's a key activity, just like choosing relays on nostr.
Whitenoise sounds promising.
No iOS yet
I have it on iOS, you need to download TestFlight to run it.
Awesome! Have considered a PWA version for those who don’t like Apple abusive policies?
What does PWA refer to?
Progressive Web Apps (PWAs), standards have evolved quite a lot from this video but is still good for an overview https://youtu.be/sFsRylCQblw
You can run your own SimpleX server app on a Start9 node quite easily.
nostr:npub1whtn0s68y3cs98zysa4nxrfzss5g5snhndv35tk5m2sudsr7ltms48r3ec nostr:npub1mftv2j67vayavkks8rqev3u8jjhefe86tf80msstfxvpunk9vmps6prkl3 and bitchat
A solid list to be a part of!
#meshtastic and then #reticulum
#Reticulum
Reticulum.network
a decentralized drug market
nostr:npub1tr4dstaptd2sp98h7hlysp8qle6mw7wmauhfkgz3rmxdd8ndprusnw2y5g has some great privacy resources
Matrix / Element
Keet
SimpleX and Keychat; Keychat remains my favorite, I tested it a few months back with another user.
Check Syncthing for synchronizing files between devices. It can do it locally, but also encrypted over some kind of relays over the internet.
#asknostr
HolePunch can be used to build P2P apps. Keet is a messaging app built with it
Meshtastic
nostr:npub1whtn0s68y3cs98zysa4nxrfzss5g5snhndv35tk5m2sudsr7ltms48r3ec and nostr:npub1yzvxlwp7wawed5vgefwfmugvumtp8c8t0etk3g8sky4n0ndvyxesnxrf8q
Simplex is an inspiration for White Noise, we need similar or even better encryption ontop of nostr web of trust. It will take a while before White Noise is stable, but until then it's a fun adventure to explore and give feedback on how we can make it better.
Check out bitchat. It's very early but it seems to be exactly what we need to deprecate ISPs. Very exciting!
nostr:nevent1qqszejlasz95l639fqx8umsee6esc9kmzltkjqz8cl4sg2jfd08efqq25ngwy
SimpleX is my favorite chat app, but honorable mentions are Element (Matrix), DeltaChat, Briar, Signal (centralized)
nostr:npub18ps93ag0kw4k08umetn56ucaaf5nsarg35cxffgyaa0sl4wdajusewz7hc any recommandations for Ross ?
Check:
https://SecureMessagingApps.com
rate
🟩=3
🟨=1
🟥=0
Result
86 #Threema = 86 Security Points = most secure #Messenger
81 #SimpleX Chat
77 #Signal
77 #Session
68 #Wire
61 #Wickr (Amazon)
56 #Element / Matrix
37 #Apple iMessage
32 #WhatsApp
27 #Telegram
26 #Facebook Messenger
10 #Microsoft Skype
nostr:npub1whtn0s68y3cs98zysa4nxrfzss5g5snhndv35tk5m2sudsr7ltms48r3ec
And nostr:npub1sg6plzptd64u62a878hep2kev88swjh3tw00gjsfl8f237lmu63q0uf63m ‘s #bitChat
What's the main difference between white noise and simplex
First of all Whitenoise uses nostr and SimpleX uses SMP
Thanks kilombimo 🤙
That's correct.
Also White Noise uses the new internet standard Message Layer Security (MLS) which is well audited and has security proofs, while SimpleX has their own encryption scheme. In theory White Noise should scale to encrypted groups with millions of participants, we still have a lot of work to do to make this possible.
The main difference is, that White Noise builds ontop of the Nostr MLS protocol, and so it should be compatible with a lot of other nostr clients that will support secure messages, like nostr:npub12vkcxr0luzwp8e673v29eqjhrr7p9vqq8asav85swaepclllj09sylpugg
We’re building nostr:npub1whtn0s68y3cs98zysa4nxrfzss5g5snhndv35tk5m2sudsr7ltms48r3ec to be the most secure messenger in the world built on top of Nostr’s network and bitcoin’s unstoppable monetary properties.
Would love to hear your thoughts!
It may take months to get it working properly and it's fine. We are here to keep testing the best privacy tech out there.
Sometimes the app needs to be closed and reopened, to be able to send invitation
When are you expecting adding payments to the client?
Simplex has incognito mode, very practical feature...
Same here, not working yet and waiting for updates
Cool 🆒
How can I use White Noise on an iPhone?
My main way of keeping in touch with privacy-focused individuals is Signal currently
The said they were Beta testing on iphone. nostr:npub1whtn0s68y3cs98zysa4nxrfzss5g5snhndv35tk5m2sudsr7ltms48r3ec is great but you can also test nostr:npub1ht6s6d0xuscv0rkt09wt7y7wzfvs6d6uk3ysf3kan44a040hh2ds5q3f5x on iphone. Signal has been great for years
Necesitamos una Red que sirva para tomar decisiones masa, que ayude a organizarnos en Comunidad para tomar decisiones colaborativas... Deberíamos de pensar en una comunidad de gobernanza Holocrática.
Creación de nuevas Instituciones descentralizadas resilientes con los usuarios. Ayudarnos, protegernos, y defendernos. Id todos a una 💪
A secure/nostr version of https://hack.chat could be really interesting
If it will telecom infrastructure it is doomed to fail.
It doesn't depend on a phone number / gsm networks
Nor does it rely on a central relay
White Noise is very promising
Who cares about "promising" technology?
Lo probé con mi comunidad y nos gustó mucho
one of the first users here, currently testing it with my brother.
i see the long term vision you are aiming to achieve.
keep up the good work.
What about 0xchat?
What do you think of Urbit?
Briar - F-Droid, CalyxOS repository
SimpleX might be the way to go, long term.
nostr:nevent1qqs2gxzqjujwlqeufmyylkf2gz3qq66ptjy5xly6y5d3t8ga56pv49qjv7t4f
lnbc87330n1p5fpfzcpp52ye98r2ryszypfr8hsgc7sj7xgamya8vxwck78hrsvl3dczanxnsdp82pshjgr5dusyymrfde4jq4mpd3kx2apq24ek2uscqzpuxqrwzqsp559q5jf6x8j07075jpvx6wut3tp0hgae5xcezcm284u4vepkrjf8q9qxpqysgqe9a7ah8lycxe3zal52g9f80ynzx5x9ga0alvgm978jg3rd3p36npnjzf90c45l9e7rmk96jezspt8m2eqzlqpvtwah9lqz6av5sf6xqplujzxh
briar, element, (conversations, Cwtch > these two are pretty good) molly client for signal. BTW get a google pixel phone and stick graphene OS on it too. Good luck buddy glad to see you back
👆 This.
not sure about apps but chatting with humans at a bar is pretty decentralized
hello
hello
Oh man Ross that means you haven't been seeing my notes! I'll recommend a bunch of decentralized stuff but for starters start with your own self hosted archive.
Tu eras el de silk road ¿no?
White noise