outbox fixes dis. or does it? we wont know till 2/3 the network using it..

All devs are guilty of creating off-protocol implementations.

But we should leave non-nip approved implementation in beta software.

Because at this stage Twitter can claim they are running nostr now (with their current implementation).

😔

I think the solution is twofold: improve the relay API, also implementing HyperLogLog suggested by nostr:npub180cvv07tjdrrgpa0j7j7tmnyl2yr6yr7l8j4s3evf6u64th6gkwsyjh6w6, and promote more creative client-side business logics, with custom storage layers that can be used to optimize data aggregation and filtering.

I've started noticing a lot of notes missing from my follow feed in recent weeks. I see them when I visit a profile but they never make it to my feed. I suspect that is related. I don't know a damn thing about programming but I'm pretty okay at pattern recognition.

The Proprietary Nostr Relay Wars 🫡

Maybe it’s a funnel thing, like Bitcoin itself? My hope is that in time and with understanding people will migrate from the shiny to the ethically sound, principled clients that share their values and better defend the decentralised vision of the movement. But the hard path will always be harder 🫂

Build out interoperable solutions, reject proprietary solutions entirely.

Is this a more serious risk if clients with traction stop writing events to outside (as opposed to reading events from outside)? I see that on the read side this introduces risks like seeing content that is out of date, or in the worst case purposefully altered.

Or is it that the read side alone comes with its own potential implications?

Dark thought

Why would devs do the hard thing and pour their effort into getting something working at the protocol level thats already available by some popular proprietary nostr app? Especially when they have the majority of the users and they are happy with the solution.

The very few people doing protocol dev will stop doing it. Users will be like: wow you got something working in a janky way which we've already had two years ago on NostrGram, who cares. It's becoming not very rewarding work.

You could have easily built zaps in a way that worked only on one app and all the users used that app because its an awesome feature. Building zaps was non-trivial and required lots of work between many different parties. It's sad we're moving away from this way of building things.

shiny fades fast ime & all the best guys*/ i applaud U for a lot of this space so far-T Y

Disagree. Incentives in a commoditized open source market encourage cooperation/interoperability due to everyone desiring network effects from each other. Siloing is stupid for VCs.

I’m a Damus Maxi.

Tried Primal. Didn’t like Primal. So fuck Primal.

Keep it simple. Damus & Wallet of Satoshi = happier better life.

it's so over

Prediction: nostr:npub1exv22uulqnmlluszc4yk92jhs2e5ajcs6mu3t00a6avzjcalj9csm7d828 is replacing failed nostr!

I choose less featured clients and interoperability #nostr

Interoperability was one of the main things that attracted me to nostr. Without it, there isn’t any point.

Isn't this generally the challenge that open-source software is up against? I think we're only just realizing how much the fiat system has formed our habits. Hopefully more talent gravitates toward the open-source field as mindsets change, but as it stands we still need fiat to play the game. Maybe software developers need to start choosing more humble paths for the sake of human growth instead of prioritizing large paychecks.

There are many investors in the space that understand the complexity & cost of protocol development and believe in the multiplicative effect it can cause. There are investors that are also excited about the technology, the vision, the solution and they like to help good cause. They need to see some hint of path to success, but especially in the early rounds all investors understand that they most likely won't see their money back. Investors can then provide their network of people, help with hiring, help with resources, exposure and marketing, etc. (i.e. provide not just money, but other values too)

Now, you keep putting all these investors into a single bucket of evil people and attack their integrity with posts like this and that's something that investors are sensitive to. Many investors don't share publicly that they are investors and so you may see people in your comments that seem hurt & attacked without any obvious reason. This could explain some of it.

On the specifics - detailed search functionality with complete DSL is imo overrated. The world is shifting to just text and multi modal search anyway. Even if Primal can do better experience because they don't design a protocol solution, it doesn't matter much. If Damus (and nostr) gets basic search, people will be happy enough.

Further, there are examples where one app pioneers a great experience that users enjoy that is then later codified into a protocol. Sometimes the usecases and user needs need to be more fleshed out before we freeze those into a protocol.

protocols will survive by network itself 💜

( i just thinking about damus x slidestr ? )

I think you had too much Whiskey and it’s cold!!!

Bitcoin-focused VCs like nostr:nprofile1qyv8wumn8ghj7urjv4kkjatd9ec8y6tdv9kzumn9wsq3kamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwvf5hgcm0d9h8qctjdvhxxmmdqy28wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnyv9kh2uewd9hsz9nhwden5te0wfjkccte9ec8y6tdv9kzumn9wsq3jamnwvaz7tmnv4hxg6t59ehx7umxd3shyefwvdhk6qpq4pymadh04lt8tl3lv93yr3vnlxw39s3ahdvmhvlu6u27fve8umfqzmv7st , #Hivemind, and #EgoDeathCapital and actually benefit from maintaining #Nostr 's open protocol and interoperability just like the non-profits like nostr: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 do. The network effects created through interoperability generate more value than isolated proprietary systems, as demonstrated by successful portfolio companies collaborating across the ecosystem.

Rather than fragmenting into isolated islands, Nostr is more likely to follow Bitcoin's development model where:

- Open protocols create more value through network effects.

- Technical challenges are solved through collaborative innovation.

- Economic incentives align with maintaining interoperability.

- Venture capital benefits from ecosystem growth rather than isolation.

The key is understanding that Bitcoin-focused VCs operate differently from traditional tech VCs, prioritizing open infrastructure development that benefits the entire ecosystem rather than pursuing short-term proprietary advantages.

Thoughts? nostr:nprofile1qyv8wumn8ghj7urjv4kkjatd9ec8y6tdv9kzumn9wsq3vamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwwpexjmtpdshxuet5qyvhwumn8ghj7um9dejxjapwdehhxenvv9ex2tnrdaksqgqyey2a4mlw8qchlfe5g39vacus4qnflevppv3yre0xm56rm7lveyr9lldz nostr:nprofile1qy0hwumn8ghj7cnfw33k76twd4shs6tdv9kxjum5wvhx7mnvd9hx2qg4waehxw309ajkgetw9ehx7um5wghxcctwvsqs6amnwvaz7tmwdaejumr0dsq3gamnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3wdau8gu3wv3jhvqgmwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxy6t5vdhkjmnsv9exktnrdaksz9rhwden5te0wfjkccte9ejxzmt4wvhxjmcprpmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuumwdae8gtnnda3kjctvqyt8wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnnw3hkuetj9e3k7mgqyprj73q098hejm5j5xrt35eqluvqep2eqwyzukw4phsm302kdycpuc8s2gj nostr: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 nostr:nprofile1qyt8wumn8ghj7etyv4hzumn0wd68ytnvv9hxgtcp2amhxue69uhkv6tvw3jhytnwdaehgu3wwa5kuef0dec82c33wv6hjufkwaskgamj0pjx2drvdpn8xdfkvahrvdrgwaa826rwvesnvu3ed44rgdekwg6hxdrgdd6ku7n80fchyuekwymh5qgwwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkctcprpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuendwsh8w6t69e3xj730qy2hwumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytn00p68ytnyv4mz7qg3waehxw309ahx7um5wgh8w6twv5hszxrhwden5te0wpex2mtfw4kjuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgqg6waehxw309ac82unpwe5kgcfwdehhxarj9ekxzmny9uq3samnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwvd6hyun9de6zuenedyhsz9thwden5te0wfjkccte9ejxzmt4wvhxjme0qy2hwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnwdaehgu3wvfnj7qgewaehxw309aex2mrp0yh8xmn0wf6zuum0vd5kzmp0qythwumn8ghj7unnwdkxz7fwdehhxarj9ehx2ap0qqsg2zqd8wkhpnxu6lm5c2dyfa2mhpwte57apjae2ldp6g2mmwf3ypqdsk0y0 nostr:nprofile1qy2hwumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytndv9kxjm3wdahxcqg5waehxw309ahx7um5wfekzarkvyhxuet5qyf8wumn8ghj7ur4wfcxcetsv9njuetnqy28wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnyv9kh2uewd9hsz9thwden5te0wfjkccte9e4kzmts9eekjar9qyt8wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnswf5k6ctv9ehx2aqpzdmhxue69uhhyetvv9ukzcnvv5hx7un8qyg8wumn8ghj7atn9eexyu3wvf5k7qpqa2cww4kn9wqte4ry70vyfwqyqvpswksna27rtxd8vty6c74era8sw8fdg3 nostr:nprofile1qyshwumn8ghj76mdvvkkummnw3ezuctdd96kuer9wfmkzar9wghxxmmdqy2hwumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytn9v9ekjene9ejx2qg6waehxw309ahx7um5wghx76mpd968xde4xv6zumn9wsq3yamnwvaz7tmsw4e8qmr9wpskwtn9wvq3gamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwv3sk6atn9e5k7qghwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxsctndqh8xarjv4sk6qgkwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxummnw3ezucnpdejqz9nhwden5te0wfjkccte9ec8y6tdv9kzumn9wsqzq079lp2n40t48tz8je7yc35vl5yw3juaaecm08sj6kk6kgzmcpxnv67gq3 nostr:nprofile1qythwumn8ghj7ct5d3shxtnwdaehgu3wd3skuep0qyvhwumn8ghj7er9wfnkjemf9ehx7um5wgcjucm0d5hsz9nhwden5te0v4jx2m3wdehhxarj9ekxzmny9uq3yamnwvaz7tm909jhxtnxxaazu6t09uq3samnwvaz7tmxd9k8getj9ehx7um5wgh8w6twv5hszgrhwden5te0dehhxarj9ejkjmn4dej85ampdeaxjeewwdcxzcm99uq32amnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3wdau8gu3wv3jhvtcpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7qgcwaehxw309ac8yetdd96k6tnswf5k6ctv9ehx2aqprfmhxue69uhhqatjv9mxjerp9ehx7um5wghxcctwvshsqgrwg6zz9hahfftnsup23q3mnv5pdz46hpj4l2ktdpfu6rhpthhwjvxnknlz nostr: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

nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzqvhpsfmr23gwhv795lgjc8uw0v44z3pe4sg2vlh08k0an3wx3cj9qqsppr6l7vnvxxk63ec0mhqhmr28q90g67ujww740spcje56hr75k0s7a5drw

What are the highest value features that are moving to proprietary nostr relays?

I support whatever keeps Nostr FOSS and growing too big for Elon to buy.

interoperability above all! 💜

that’s one of #nostr best feeling of #freedom

Exactly 0 shitcoins have ever killed Bitcoin.

Exactly 0 shitcoins will kill this protocol.

It's all about the money. You are probably among the very few having a stady income throug donations, but many who built are not that lucky.

People just want to earn something and honestly I don't think zaps is the answer. I am not even go into the nips which some are are insanely complicated.

The focus must always be efficient but stupid relays, I think that should be a core principle for Nostrs protocol when defining nips.