2

1

Oooof

2. The ups and downs make me feel something . S&p will never do that.

I might catch some bullets but 1 isn’t a bad option. I’d be more inclined to sell enough bitcoin to pay off mortgage and not worry about debt obligations. Then live off the rest of the Bitcoin stack while still working.

1 - stress free is always best in life.

I would have solid all the corn though. Maybe 3 of those bitcoin and still live a modest happy and content lifestyle.

#3 You NEVER sell any ₿itcoin. Banks can custody bitcoin and you borrow against your stack to live. Since debt is not taxed, you pay no tax. As ₿itcoin appreciates in fiat price, roll over your debt and even stack more with the debt as you go a la Michael Saylor. Rinse and repeat. In the end, at death, you leave all of your stack (plus more) to your heirs or burn your keys and take your stack with you like a playa pimp Egyptian mummy.

1.

too many assumptions in both, though.

2. I don't really stress about my bitcoin now so I am not sure that I would then either. But, not to change the stipulation of the hypothetical, I would live with stress before ever selling a valuable asset for a liquid currency hemmoraging value. Plus any more bitcoin I can leave to my kids is worth more than my comfort.

As long as fiat exists, always consider long time loan against the BTC instead of selling.

Fund the lifestyle, keep the coin, moderate the stress both ways. FOMOs can be stressful as well.

I think reality is somewhere in the middle for me, but leaning towards option 2.

I’m leaning towards increasing quality of life and it seems like answer 1 out of the 2.

Your time is the most scarce asset, then bitcoin. Constant stress is not good for health. We want a high quality long life.. with family/friends.

2, but live off of way less each month. One of my favorite things to do is to take long kayaking and backpacking trips; life is cheap when you love in a tent for multiple months. Keep it humble like a hobo.

Stress is good. Welcome it. Embrace it.

2

The problem with option 1, the 60% crash is unlikely to happen. You won't have any bitcoin at the end

2

2. The stress keeps you pushing to be the change you want to see in the world.

I think it’s a hybrid but interesting thought experiment. You learn more about yourself from (2) but you probably learn more about “the world” in (1) …

The first option is for retard. fiat is a scam. Even goat shit is worth more than millions or even trillions of lira, pesos, or Zimbabwean dollars. just reminder

That's an interesting question. I am surely here for option 2.

100% option 1 for me. I’m probably older than many on this thread

For health reasons option 1 is the obvious choice. Stress is bad news, you may not see it as much when you are young but when you get older you will.

Enjoy life, bitcoin isn't your life.....

I was told there would be no math

Once you realize the path is the drawdowns then it’s not stressful. If you aren’t down millions sometimes you’ll never be up tens of millions other times. Loss aversion makes you weak and poor.

2. And then you need to ask yourself why would you be more stressed by number two? Stop being a bitch and lead your home

Option 1 Because if life is full of satisfaction and happiness then what can be better than that.

Choose whichever option suits you and your mental state best. Some of us don't mind seeing our net worth fluctuate wildly, others are more severely negatively affected by this.

We're all on our own path, we all have our own lives to live, responsibilities and obligations to uphold.

Determine what method allows you to live your best life, and live your best life.

I write a bit about how I live on a Bitcoin standard, but this is just to share my journey, and the lessons I've learned along the way.

You do you anon. Who am I to tell you how to Bitcoin?

2. no doubt.

I rather live with volatility. Even if btc drops 90% or more, at least i know my assets are safe and nobody coild freeze it. I would be much mire concerned about fiat holdings in that range

Why be an island? Use your wisdom and wealth to create systems that support you and the ones you love. What are health care costs when you create the next wellness economy? Food? If you have funded the future of food production in the US, you can feel good that your great grandchildren will have access to inexpensive and abundant nutrition.

HODL Harder I guess...

Why is option 2 more stressful? I see holding a consistently debased currency as more stressful

There are some counterparty assumptions in both scenarios regarding the fiat system. It's hard to guarantee a return on fiat or to ensure it doesn't disappear. Also unclear what BTC or USD will be worth in terms of purchasing power in a decade.

There's also a third option which is to take out loans against your bitcoin instead of selling it.

This way you always have fiat and you don't have to sell bitcoin. Perhaps there will be some stress, but if you hedge appropriately you will always be okay.

If you don't hedge properly a huge drop could liquidate your collateral, but at least you weren't eating ramen sitting on the floor in your apartment because you sold all your chairs.

2.

However, I can confidently say that I will never need 6 mil a year to lead a perfect life in my own eyes. Bitcoin max, material min. Maybe for 1 year for fun but that amount of consumption would quickly become tiresome for me.

The ideal scenario in my mind is to stack enough to allow for spending the increase in global productivity every year. In bitcoin terms the stack will of course decrease. In purchasing power terms all needs are taken care of indefinitely for generations. as long as discipline and humility are valued.

Not enough to do nothing, but enough where you can do exactly what you want.

I am currently betting on Option #2. I don’t think it will be that stressful due to our family lifestyle and personalities.

We want to “retire” (Aka: free to work on what we truly believe on) and live on bitcoin terms.

Doesn’t have to be all or nothing. I will never sell my whole stack, but I will reward my family for trusting me when this journey didn’t make any sense to them. Maybe that means selling 20% to buy a house (or a vacation house), but hopefully by the time that’s an option the lending market will be mature and I won’t have to sell. I also have a business that cashflows in fiat terms and gives me a lot of flexibility in lifestyle. The goal is to grow that business without growing the associated stress by being strategic in what I take on. That way we can fund our life without eating our seed corn and leave most of it to my kids.

option 2

even inflation adjusted I think I would not spend that much, I'm pretty satisfied with the life I have materially speaking.

my personal goal is to buy all my time to spend on family, and only sell it to others (work) if I get more than just material stuff out of it.

hopefully my family will appreciate my being there always more than whatever I could have left after being gone.

2.

Not necessarily stressful.

Living with less is the key to happiness.

The kids don’t need it all either.

Bless the ones that can’t work. The widows and orphans.

The kids need to see us do this, too.

OPTION 2 BUT NOT BE STRESSED ABOUT IT BECAUSE THERE IS SAFETY IN SATS.

I would love to try in practice. could someone zap me 10btc?

Given the two choices, Option #2 because the gift to your kids is all that really matters (being worth 120M v 380M...), but waiting for someone to tell me why my plan will not work:

nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzp8cth4d5m365wjt0ekcql6mrrtmrs9c7q8jcu7zmth75z9mekvlkqythwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnswf5k6ctv9ehx2ap0qyfhwumn8ghj7ur4wfcxcetsv9njuetn9uqzplug4qhxj4rwtztfhjvpmz5wdfxnm60jj45h3rv32990penffzeywh7w7x

I’m not leaving my children an inheritance; after all, I want them to have a good life.

The assumption that we’ll be able to send a million sat UTXO (or less) at 50 million per coin (the question will probably come up much earlier) is pretty important for this decision.

I'll go with option 2 for sure. Finance is kinda easy to predict but how holding Bitcoin that can't be censored nor confiscated is the most important factor. This is what building new world looks like. Fiat rich still makes you bow down to centralized systems. So no thank you and I choose some stress adventure and true human rebellion instead and still be wealthy.

Fair point assuming btc doesn’t become the standand. If it does the 20mil will be worthless and you are broke.

I feel like I play out this thought experiment daily as I sit in the fiat mines…

Option 2 and load up on good quality magnesium for the stressful drawdowns.

I’m nowhere near having a sat stack to contemplate this right now. Maybe in 2 epochs I’ll be in a position to evaluate 🫡

2, but not for the obvious reasons. In option one, we “comfortably” harvest 7.5% in the trad fi markets. I deny that achieving that is less stressful than HODLing.

3

You live off bitcoin until 59.5 and then strategically sell covered calls on MSTR with shares you have in a Roth IRA. You pass down more bitcoin and most of the MSTR shares

Option 2. I want to keep my stack as intact as possible for as long as possible. And have time to educate my kids on the philosophy as we go.

Option 3 you continue to work to pay the bills and just stay humble and stack sats. Fiat mining pays the bills and enough to continue to stack more. You only sell small amount when the mayer multiple reaches 2.5+ meaning a way over heated Bitcoin environment. Gives you some emergency funds or fiat to stack any potential big dip. You end up giving 8+ Bitcoin to your children. Generational wealth.

Retirement is a trap. Bitcoin should be used to fund a meaningful project, one that will later return sats to you. Then live on that sats flow, forget about both options 1 and 2, and don't stress about money.

1, but you only retire from bullshit. You still do things that you are passionate about to earn bitcoin - ie art, music, educating others etc.

While there are exceptions to every rule, a lot of these comments imply to me that many of these respondents have never really, honestly considered what it'd be like to have their nest egg and spending power abruptly cut in half, what it be like to be left wondering: "how much lower will it go?", "how long is this going to last?", "at what point will I not be able to come back from this?", "bitcoin represented a fundamental change in the system, did it change again?", "did I get things wrong?", "did I fail my family and all who count on me?", etc.

When you're accumulating, you have a long way to go, and the price of sats gets cut in half, then that's exciting, but when you're living off nothing but you're savings, and some conviction, the story changes when everything abruptly becomes twice as expensive. Must of trad-fi's lessons are dumb, but it definitely has some to teach about psychology in a downturn during retirement.

2

keep in mind that finding somewhere to preserve savings when the TradFi $USD and $EUR crash is part of the horizon

Its such a huge amount of bitcoin that it should generate little to no stress either way of the price goes to 2 mil usd a piece. #2 leaves you with more so that one.

Option 1 because you still hodled and will pass it down to your kids but you used some of it to enjoy life with. Only thing I wouldn't do is gamble in tradfi. It's important to live and enjoy your life too. The buildup in stress might kill you sooner than later with option 2

2, bit the kids must never know, until much later in their lives after they've been bloodied by their own experience, that they're inheriting a large stack. The knowledge of inheritance WILL ruin them in younger years.

2

3 - institutional lending evolves and you borrow against your BTC without selling it. You take and repay small loans to float you while you stack

It’s early but it’s happening. Companies like ledn.io will become common.

I’m currently think about option #3. Rebalancing so I’m no longer 100% bitcoin and I can finally relax. The problem is I can’t come up with a logical strategy.

interesting framing. part of this thought experiment has to be longevity, mental health, mental sharpness, and the state of one’s soul

i’m thinking in scenario 2, you might die younger from accumulated stress but with a sharper mind at the end from the need to stay on your toes

hard to say

and then there is the spiritual side. that’s another conversation altogether which is not conveyed in this thought experiment

$6 million / year lifestyle?! Bro, wtf…

Option 2, I don’t need 16 million in USD at one time.

Who the hell pays taxes on Bitcoin income? Is it freedom money or not?

will try 2, but not having enuf yet

2nd ... Because in this option I don't increas my needs ..

In first option , I will end buying a mansion and a boat .. not bad but I get stress from cumulative things .. a life of less is actually more ..

And who wants to be in trad fi ??? I would rather spend my few hours of being online here at #nostr rather than staring at screens all day long ..

Option 2

Option 2 cause what are you, a pussy?

You will not find me in the tradfi markets, except as a hodler of debt.

All I’m thinking is I don’t have enough Bitcoin!

I choose either option because it would mean having 10 bitcoin initially

lol, this is comical from the perspective of someone who has lived through the death of a fiat currency, twice. Americans think the dollar will never die. To that I say:

Sure, maybe the USD is truly immortal, unlike every other global reserve currency before. But imagine waking up one day and they printed so much money that your $120 million USD can barely buy you bread (aka soft default). Oh, and you can't buy Bitcoin either because they have blocked off the exits in anticipation of this.

Alternatively, imagine waking up one day and seeing everyone's bank accounts frozen, the funds are then confiscated in a "bail in." Your $120 million USD is now theirs. After much public outcry and burning and looting, they give you back your money in a new currency they just printed, worth 10% of your original purchasing power. Meanwhile, you have no Bitcoin because you sold it all!

Moral of the story, fiat is as meaningless as toilet paper. Good luck living your "stress free" life in fiat land! I know what I will be doing.

Mate, you hit on a good subject, this aint a comment on your views,

IMO The ugliest, greediest part of the Bitcoin cannon, that we accept, is the hoarding and extreme approaches.

It's low, it's dumb, and it's wrong.

First, if you were in 10-15, you had a serious and viable reason to defer huge parts of your time and potential for rapid and life changing rewards, and many did, and correctly.

If you are, 100% in bitcoin now, you are by definition 0% everywhere else, and the fiat difficulty adjustment (staying alive and happy) is rising faster than Bitcoin's CAGR. There is a fall coming to the prideful.

I believe we are at an invisible inflection point where the risks of NOT owning your last 10% of Bitcoin is now lower that the fiat/real world risks of getting very badly trampled, and not protecting your basic needs and freedoms with that same 10%

What the screechers don't realise, is that they are set up (in their absolute belief of an "up and to the right" price path), to realize their abstract wealth into a level of volatility that few in our lifetimes have witnessed, and they will have never been as individually weak for the deferral of "everything" they are, into a bag of money.

Smart path is to be sensible and serve yourself first, without that best version, and excess Bitcoin you have, will convey to those with the appropriate level of wisdom and character.

My thesis in short:

https://youtu.be/y6yCmdIkw_E?si=RZJKn7ePmofQx5f-

Bro thinks we're paying taxes 😂.

But to answer your question, having assets in multiple things help you when you when one asset is in a downturn.

I would also use that hypothetical bitcoin wealth, and appreciation to start a revenue generating business, so I would be able to spend, and replace Bitcoins.

But first I need to secure my future financial privacy before I can focus on Sats/Bitcoins.

nostr:nevent1qqsp2rcga7t4wkrsms5mu6jtk6940xzr4pfxetdwcjghyaeeh390udgpr9mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnrdakjuct49upzqxh7p36w84mcf6af8f0rlf255mhtqxfg6ynnnt5t5jpj0p5q3cmdqvzqqqqqqy2n8gfa

1. chill before frills.

I think government will completely destroy USD in the next 20 years so I'm going with 2.

#2. Gonna just keep hitting the cheap fiat credit as long as I can then only peel off what I need., rent, don't splurge. The way I see it, living more frugally isn't stressful, particularly with the fallback of Bitcoin as personal reserve asset.

They both look wrong.

You are assuming Bitcoin will go on growing in cycles pretty much as in the past 10 or so years. So will I.

In 2025 you sell 20% of your asset, so 2BTC.

You buy them ALL back 12 months later, using roughly 35% of the fiat you got one year earlier.

Then you got roughly 3 more years to spend the 65% of fiat you got. Spend them all, as they will be worthless soon.

Then it's mid 2029. Repeat.

You will leave 10 BTC to whoever you want in the end.

I still like 2, but will try to eliminate any stress in that scenario. I think I like the freedom side of bitcoin more than returning to the fiat world and being at the whim of "the man".

Interesting maths.

At $50M per BTC, for 20M total coins is a market cap of

$1,000T or

$1 Quadrillion

Current wealth of the planet = $454T

Current debt of the planet = $307T

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/global-wealth-distribution/

https://www.weforum.org/stories/2023/12/what-is-global-debt-why-high/

But what if you just sell 1 or 2 BTC which should be enough for most people to comfortably live on and let the rest run?

Number 2

Option 3.

HODL. Never sell. Stack more. Set up an inheritance plan for the offspring.

2, I get to give more to my potential kids in the end

For me it’s 2. The ‘right’ way for my personal ideologies. There is no going back to fiat, it’s simply not an option.

2ish. I don’t sell, rather borrow against.

I realize this isn’t feasible, right this second.

But 2 over 1, all day. Plus I’m a tightwad, so I sell way less.

It’s an important thought experiment

for a person to ask themselves.

Option 3. Split it

Option 2: Mainly because you’ll have more bitcoin. Once Bitcoin is $10 - 50 million it probably means the dollar is in free fall and frankly it’s going to be difficult to get rid of the dollars you trade into.

Random question - what beginner wallet do you recommend these days?

I convinced my sister in law to DCA on Swan a few years ago and they leave it on exchange, which makes me nervous.

If they have roughly 0.01 BTC, an assumption, what should I suggest for her and her husband. Neither are techie.

Coldcard or ledger I’m sure is an absolute no. They won’t do it.

Previously I’d thought Muun would be fine. But if the BTC price 10x’s from here that would be a lot for a hot wallet.

Is Bitkey the best option for them?

I’m choosing door number two

My stress is now much higher when I have less bitcoin

Option 2, but I don’t wait to use bitcoin as money until it hits $2M. I use strike to hold bitcoin and pay bills. Leaving me with 12 bitcoin worth $600M. Leaving my kids with 4 bitcoin.