Important update: Mutiny Wallet will be winding down operations by the end of the year.
We're exploring new directions as a company. For full details on the shutdown and our future plans, please read our latest blog post: https://blog.mutinywallet.com/mutiny-wallet-is-shutting-down/
Rip
Wait what?
WTF
Damn
Sadge…
Sad to hear. Loved the product.
This is a bit of a surprise, given the hype.
This feels a lot like the early days of Bitcoin, loads of early start ups that didn't last.
Gutted for you all. You really took the idea and ran with it, so impressed with what you achieved so far and looking forward to the next chapter. Keep your head up nostr:npub1t0nyg64g5vwprva52wlcmt7fkdr07v5dr7s35raq9g0xgc0k4xcsedjgqv and find the passion again. Much love to the pirates 🏴☠️
Maintaining software takes a lot of work, so I understand this decision. Still, loved Mutiny. Good luck!
thank you for your service 🫡 . will you be shutting down you blastr?
Bear market confirmed
Probably one of the coolest wallets ever created. It was fun while it lasted.
Great work you have done, not feasible for most humans. You guys will find a new path for sure.
Wow, really sad. Mutiny was the first wallet I hoped to be normie/mass compatible.
Thanks for building it.
Geez what's with these projects? I see thing wind up then burn out. I don't even use this wallet and I'm disappointed.
I even bought a shirt
?cid=9b38fe9107b1pichhpdhwiezmz13uk478s010z2f7eesa651&ep=v1_gifs_related&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g
You’ve all done well. You’ve helped explore an uncharted territory. It’s sad to see such an amazing product go.
Wish you all the best. And it’s great how you all see this is a huge learning opportunity.
Nooooooooooooooo
I’m so sorry to hear this! You moved us all forward. Thank you for leading the way to the future.
What happened!
Good luck as you transition, nostr:npub1u8lnhlw5usp3t9vmpz60ejpyt649z33hu82wc2hpv6m5xdqmuxhs46turz
🫂
Huge respect for you guys. Bullish on wherever you take Mutiny. 🧡 I’ll be rooting for you.
Makes me sad but I understand. Best luck to the team and thanks for all of your contributions.
Mutiny is open source and even MIT license so thank you very much for your service. You are making the world a better place.
I have questions though. You raised $800k in a year with a 1yo (?) startup and are quitting now just one year later? I want to learn more about all this. How? Who are the investors and what's with their investment? Do they own a share of that new product you are building now? And what is this about: "For one, I've fallen out of love for Bitcoin and the industry."? nostr:npub1t0nyg64g5vwprva52wlcmt7fkdr07v5dr7s35raq9g0xgc0k4xcsedjgqv ? Please elaborate a bit what is actually killing Mutiny? Is it the lack of profitability?
Money was raised pre-seed. We’re still working with the investors and the new product ideas will be in the freedom technology and privacy space. Strong alignment with investor philosophy.
We’re extremely grateful for the people who believed in us.
🫂🎨
Really sorry to hear Tony & Ben. Bitcoin is fucking hard
Chief PAUL Officer 😆
sad to hear this, godspeed 🫂
Sad
Don't like this
I was so excited for PLN and later for the mutiny mainnet beta. They are crazy talented and pioneered many great inovations. AFAIK they were (and still are) the first self custody wallet with NWC support.
It's a sad day when a self custody wallet goes down instead of a custodian.
Time for the community to step up
Would be amazing to see a community instance of Mutiny Wallet.
"Chef Paul Officer role" = chief product officer?
It's becoming increasingly hard to run a Lightning node over the past year. Self custodial Lightning with a great user experience is hard enough, without having USA regulatiors breathing down your neck. I wish this team and their users the best of luck.
thank you for your service 🫡
Thanks for all you've done for the community 🫡
Very sorry to hear this. You guys were innovating so hard and so fast it's frankly amazing what you accomplished. I hope you are able to find a path forward. 🧡
Thanks for the words 🧡 We want to keep that going in big ways. 🤘
nostr:npub1eequz6v23szzyx9utphsh8kg6kll50wte6sfh4vah8gdjtplcz6qg7at9s please don’t pull the mutiny Marlboro shirt yet I need one but I don’t want to spend my sats until the dippity dip quits dipping 😭
eish!
nostr:note1mnyfl9hjck35mw67hd659j6a2gxltmyhzq684lm99xnf6wzyeunsh33fy8
How do I sweep my funds out after closing all the channels?
Send all your sats to an on-chain address from another one of your wallets.
you mean restore it in another software wallet?
No, I mean once you close your Lightning channels, you'll still have all the sats (minus mining fees) in your Mutiny wallet, but on-chain. So then you can send them to any on-chain address.
My channel shows as closed and balance is onchain.now but when go to send shows balance of zero. Hopefully it's just taking time for the unchain to actually hit a block, otherwise rip
Yeah, that might be what's happening. In Mutiny, if you select the pending transaction, it'll show you a pop-up with all the transaction's information. Click on the link at the bottom next to "TXID", and it'll take you to where you can see your transaction in the mempool (be sure to scroll down and click on "see more details"). That way, you can verify where it is, and get a good idea how much longer it'll be until it's confirmed.
I have the similar issue and cant Transfer my on-chain funds. After closing the channel I see in the pop-up the following text "Channel closed because of an exception: closing_signef negotiation failed to finish within two timer ticks". I can only see the channel ID, so how can I get more information about the transaction?
😟
Appreciate all of the work you guys have done so far, very bullish on the Mutiny team and looking forward to seeing what you all accomplish next!
Bummer
What are some other lightning wallets that are:
- as easy-to use as Mutiny,
- do not require an invite (e.g., alby), and;
- have NWC ?
Sir, join our Community Call or Onboarding session, you'll get the invite there and private support ;)
Can I use alby with two completely separate npubs/nwc/lnurl accounts (registered to the same personal e-mail address)?
In other words, can i get two separate LNadresses within a single alby account? E.g. if I wanted to manage a personal account completely separate from a professional account from the same alby account. Can i open two separate wallets and have two separate lightning addresses / NWCs for this?
Hey, kind of!
You can generate and use multiple Nostr keys in the Extension. They work entirely on your machine and are a separate thing from Alby Account, LNURL and NWC.
Yes, you can have multiple Alby Accounts,registered on different e-mails (you need an invite code for new one, though). If you launch Alby Hub, you will get 'invite a friend' feature in your Account, so you could invite yourself. With each Alby Accounts comes one LN Address.
Moreover, in the Alby Hub you can create Isolated NWC Connection, that effectively creates subwallets on your Hub node. Then you can link Alby Accounts with these NWCs, so few LN Addresses could share one node (but with separate balances).
Hope that helps!?
Oh wow, thank you. I will try all of this and report back.
Monetizing software wallets is hard, was a solid go at it.
Great group of guys.
Looking forward to the new offerings!
nostr:note1mnyfl9hjck35mw67hd659j6a2gxltmyhzq684lm99xnf6wzyeunsh33fy8
You provided a great service to the community and we were lucky to have your services. Good luck with your future endeavors!
End of one chapter and start of a new one. nostr:npub1u8lnhlw5usp3t9vmpz60ejpyt649z33hu82wc2hpv6m5xdqmuxhs46turz 🫂
Such a shame, was a great wallet 😢
All the best for the new chapter ahead
Look, as a nostr user, I'm just going to offer a post-mortem opinion.
I like the people involved, but I never understood why it was a good product. Not saying it wasn't, I'm saying comms were not clear enough as to the benefits.
1. Have someone browse to a web page
2. Send them sats
3. ... There is no step 3
I'll bite.
1) why is that good ?
2) what are the chances they lose the sats ?
3) what are the privacy garantees?
4) Is there any restrictions to spending I should know about ?
5) how does that compare to e-cash like e-nuts ?
I have a ton of questions
Mutiny is a Lightning and Fedimint wallet, and the answer to those questions are mostly the same as other Lightning / Fedimint wallets. What makes it interesting is that it's a progressive web app: as long as you maintain your seed phrase and aren't currently running it somewhere else, you can open the wallet using any web browser that can load app.mutinywallet.com.
Ok, so it's a disposable fedi/ln wallet ?
probably useful, definitely too early.
Good feedback. Thanks.
Something great is coming next for all of you. Congrats on everything you achieved with Mutiny.
I'm cheering for you guys. Thanks for building this stack and best of luck!
Hate to see it, but be sure to handle your business accordingly.
ciao 👋
"fuck it dude, let's go to the web." looking back was that a mistake?
I definitely took yall building freedom tech and if not the best non-custodial wallet for granted. Wishing yall successful business building in the next endeavors.
Sad news /:
Nooo
Oh.. things are moving fast, notin thw direction the most was hoping for
Sad day. Mutiny wallet has worked perfectly for me. Can't say the same for Zeus.
Thank you for all you did excited for the new direction in the future 💜
Woah
nostr:npub1dsne272dyl3v7ru8cyeryym9td9k8jax2f52rues9u2zjt6dcfuqyx3wd8 is gonna kill me I just switched her to Mutiny 😂
Can you confirm or deny a friendly visit from the feds?
🫡
Tony is emotionally unstable
😭 😭
I feel I was only finally taking the very much needed dive into Mutiny after sitting with it on the sidelines. Was excited about what you guys have been building. 🫡
nostr:note1mnyfl9hjck35mw67hd659j6a2gxltmyhzq684lm99xnf6wzyeunsh33fy8
Market pricing this in
I hope you can still conceive the awesome tech you were building 🫂
Sad to hear this. Mutiny has been prime on what what is currently possible in Lightning on mobile. If they couldn't sustain it without going custodially, i doubt anyone can.
From an end user UX perspective we really have not progressed much further than 2019' nostr:npub1chxa2um7gl65ymyaagjrqys39mtzlwnm2drcs6qkqmme7k4edq4qghrjdd (lite wallet with reliable Sent + custodial component for Receive, up to a limit)
Sad to see this. 😕
You guys definitively moved the ball forward. We are all grateful to you for that! Looking forward to see what you'll come up with next. Hope your next project involves both Nostr and Bitcoin.
🫂 nostr:npub1t0nyg64g5vwprva52wlcmt7fkdr07v5dr7s35raq9g0xgc0k4xcsedjgqv, nostr:npub1p4kg8zxukpym3h20erfa3samj00rm2gt4q5wfuyu3tg0x3jg3gesvncxf8, nostr:npub1u8lnhlw5usp3t9vmpz60ejpyt649z33hu82wc2hpv6m5xdqmuxhs46turz
Awe but why
🫂
Best of luck gents 🧡
Sad to see you go…I was a big fan..on to the next adventure! Wish you all the best!!
Well done for pushing the boat out and innovating in a tricky space. Much respect. See you on the next thing.
Can you offer it outside of U.S.?
well done guys, admirable effort
First the miners go... then the wallets go... Is no one else reading tea leaves?
This is a very sad day. We need more user friendly lightning wallets, not less. Mutiny was such a good attempt. Easy and zero cost onboarding with fedimint, combined with self custodial lightning. There must be people with funds and the right skills to take this vision forward in one way or another.
Sad to see Mutiny go.
Opensats/ nostr:npub1qny3tkh0acurzla8x3zy4nhrjz5zd8l9sy9jys09umwng00manysew95gx nostr:npub1dergggklka99wwrs92yz8wdjs952h2ux2ha2ed598ngwu9w7a6fsh9xzpc
are you able to provide a grant /funding for this important OSS project to continue or perhaps to create a path to re-use their skills, knowledge and tech? If there was a specific fund, I would donate to it also!
Bruh they already got grants & VC monies.
Thx, I see that now. I didn't know before. 🫡
While it's sad to see maintainers step away from an open source project, it doesn't mean the project has to die. If the users wasn't to keep it alive and are willing to put in the time and effort, it can live on!
This stacker news post from the mutiny devs provides some additional thoughts on the state of #bitcoin and #lightning.
Has lightning failed to deliver bitcoin to the masses or do we just accept that bitcoins scaling solution is simply custodians?
m' coooooool looking mutiny plus 😭
You guys did a great job !
Not perfect, but that’s to be expected.
Wish you all the best for the future endeavors.
Loved what you guys built. Really wishing y’all the best in what comes next!
You guys build awesome stuff, I'm sure what ever you do next will be even better!
Great blog post, burn out is real and a good sign it's time to reevaluate what you really want to do.
wow, painful news. Been a big mutiny fan.
nostr:npub1mutnyacc9uc4t5mmxvpprwsauj5p2qxq95v4a9j0jxl8wnkfvuyque23vg nostr:npub1t0nyg64g5vwprva52wlcmt7fkdr07v5dr7s35raq9g0xgc0k4xcsedjgqv can you suggest an alternative mobile wallet which supports Fedimint at the moment?
Nevermind. I suppose it's nostr:npub1uq70uqgas9pyhds2zt57kr9se8rg3s68ztphjnq82ts8rzeknmeql7u0c2!
This is so unfortunate, this was my go-to orange-pilling wallet
The perfect balance between speed, noncustodial ecash and custodial for larger balances.
When you're orange-pilling someone and likely you are paying them 10-20$ for a meal, you shouldn't do it on-chain + 10 minute confirmation time makes it hard to communicate why it's so great
Such a shame, well, onward lads -- i'm sure you guys will do great things
SAYING THE QUIET PART OUT LOUD: BITCOIN WITHOUT COVENANTS HAS NO WORKABLE SOLUTION FOR FULLY SELF CUSTODIAL SMALL PAYMENTS AND HODLing. All solutions such as Liquid, custodial lightning, ecash, etc. make reasonable trade offs for certain people and situations given BTC as it exists today, but they are all custodial and strictly worse than BTC self custody would be with even the most basic covenants.
*I intentionally exclude running a fully self sovereign lightning setup because this just isn’t practical for the masses, we are all learning this the hard way in real time.
Lol, patience, lightning is only 5% complete, people grinding to find bridges and make LN available to all. Rome wasn't built in a day etc.
Do you think it's a good idea for us to run a community version?
Maintenance and support will be the biggest concerns. There's unfortunately no one outside of the team that has any familiarity with the very technical pieces that make up the wallet. While it is possible, I would take caution and manage expectations using any community or self hosted version going forward. We will not be available to assist.
Gotcha. Would you be able to leave some rough notes for anyone that wanted to pick it up?
Something like Satoshi said, "This is for intrepid developers that are prepared to read the source code ..."
The shutdown of Mutiny Wallet is a result of many factors; directly it was a result of the backbone of the wallet being fundamentally broken at a self-custodial level, and indirectly a result of increasing criminalization of privacy in a world where it is both personally and professionally disregarded.
I am not a Bitcoin maxi, and have never labelled myself as such for the sole reason of knowing better. Bitcoin is better money, and is something I actively want to be adopted, yet I know it is something that can actively be improved upon. The argument for not increasing the block size was always a disingenuous one, as Bitcoin was initially introduced without any block size limits, and one was only created due to early technical issues which have long been resolved; the hatred for Bitcoin Cash was always one born from bruised egos and the admittedly unscrupulous actions of Roger Ver surrounding the .com domain for Bitcoin among other things.
It showed that raising the block size wouldn't immediately result in the centralization of mining pools, or push individual validators out of downloading and verifying transactions on the blockchain. With that being said, Lightning was conceptualized two years before the SegWit split occurred and thus its eventual realization cannot be attributed to Bitcoin Cash; what it CAN be attributed to is its accelerated development.
Lightning is a piece of shit.
At a fundamental level, it was always a band-aid solution to Bitcoin's early block size restraints that no one wanted to revoke after Satoshi's disappearance (which also had a knock-back effect of reducing its natural scalability), despite the 1 MB restriction clearly being introduced as a temporary measure meant to reduce the potential of double spending and a bloated blockchain size similar to that of CSW's Shitoshi's Venture (SV) shitcoin; with very few exceptions which have their own problems depending on the SDK used, it is near impossible to make reliably self-custodial Lightning wallets that don't have their own issues.
Custodial wallets and services obfuscate from users liquidity management, issues underpinning what software is used to power Lightning functionality (LND, Core Lightning, Eclair, etc.) and the necessity of being online at all times; whereas developments in transacting with on-chain Bitcoin have been somewhat realized, very little offline Lightning solutions have even been conceptualized owing to its off-chain nature requiring distinct ways of transactional verification.
It is also a band-aid on a far bigger issue, depending on who you ask, which is Bitcoin's absolute transparency.
Monero was created in the aftermath of Ross Ulbricht's example-making persecution by the United Territories of Israel's government, as no deep/darknet user wanted to experience the level of deanonymization that Dread Pirate Roberts had been subjected to, and wanted to transact with a currency that would guarantee full anonymity whether it be for complicit or illicit purposes. Various voices in the Bitcoin scene that don't immediately write Monero off as a shitcoin (while ironically doing the same for Cash) have proposed taking what Monero does right and gradually implement it on-chain, just to be met derisively either with "Lighting exists, and is better" (it's not) or claims that making Bitcoin more private would result in its crackdown and criminal persecution of anyone using it, which further adds to the fact that Bitcoin's largest problem (yes, more than the corporate influence of Blockstream and deliberately rigid philosophical dichotomy) has been the community's perception around privacy.
Privacy is an absolute human right, and I see it as no coincidence that every effort made to improve Bitcoin's anonymous viability by a group or individual (regardless of my feelings on said software being a band-aid on top of others obscuring larger issues) has resulted in maximum federal persecution towards those daring to get Bitcoin even a quarter closer to where Monero is (which has resulted in it only being able to be obtained through mining or DEX's).
Despite my positions likely going to lead to pushback from those who insist that Bitcoin is absolutely perfect as is, and that I'm a filthy shitcoiner who shouldn't have an opinion on anything, I want to thank nostr:npub1t0nyg64g5vwprva52wlcmt7fkdr07v5dr7s35raq9g0xgc0k4xcsedjgqv for creating the easiest self-custodial Lightning wallet to exist and for hosting your company's version of it as long as you did; it was what introduced my younger brother and girlfriend to self-custody and the bright spots of Lightning when it all clicks and DOESN'T lead to financial loss (still bitter about that, nostr:npub1xnf02f60r9v0e5kty33a404dm79zr7z2eepyrk5gsq3m7pwvsz2sazlpr5 lol), and its app store independent nature allowing the focus to be on making the wallet better rather than capitulating to companies that can both fuck off as far as I'm concerned allowed Mutiny to become THE hub for Bitcoin's future developments in admittedly contentious areas like Cashu that has its ardent supporters.
May the best come to you, and continue to come to sound magic money.
nostr:note1mnyfl9hjck35mw67hd659j6a2gxltmyhzq684lm99xnf6wzyeunsh33fy8
Wow, I was not expecting this. Mutiny was my go to daily driver. It was a bit glitchy at times, but in terms of the wallet I wanted to work it was everything.
Sorry to hear that. Mutiny wallet was great. I'm sure whatever comes next will also be great ❤️
Is there a way to swap 50k sats from a federation to lighting? Says I need minimum of 100k. Is there another way? Or another federation I can join that will allow me to swap to lightning? #asknostr
any changes to blastr or the relay?
Can you clarify, 'fallen out of love with bitcoin?'
