Am I in the wrong circles here, or has engagement gone down noticeably on Nostr?
Discussion
I feel the same. I think we've all finally realized Nostr sucks and no one is coming, really.
We built all this giant piece of something that turns out no one really understands or cares, not even most Nostr developers.
🥲
maybe it’s the “other stuff” we haven’t seen yet
Are you being serious or just sarcastic?
I was actually talking more about user interaction. New sign-ups and published notes/events seem pretty normal numbers-wise.
I’ll never stop using this protocol and you can’t make me stop either.
20 years from now just you and me in the CLI with all the other clients dead
Nostr has something unique. I've noticed peoples' excitement when I talk about bringing your followers with you. I think this aspect isn't advertised enough. Maybe that's the problem too. There's lots of developers, few "influencers". The influencers who come on here don't tend to stay long (nostr:npub1xr7t5h0l25ej73pm04zgz9afeexyzsjx67s5v0xxf2sshjn4sx6sep2gqh).
The influencers will stay on centralized platforms because that's easier and is easy money. Censorship will be the only reason for them to seek alternatives like nostr. But they're not going to leave their mountains of subscribers behind unless they're forced to
Pretty sure hyperinflation will make them realize the goal is to have an amount of wealth, not an amount of money
Middleman can't compete with direct trade except when connected to a money printer which people blindly accept dollars from
It’s been fun and I’m always learning something.
This meme feels appropriate.
Adoption will happen slowly, then all at once.
We're still early, and you were earlier than the rest of us nostr:nprofile1qqsrhuxx8l9ex335q7he0f09aej04zpazpl0ne2cgukyawd24mayt8gprfmhxue69uhkcmmrdd3x77pwve5kzar2v9nzucm0d5hszxnhwden5te0wpuhyctdd9jzuenfv96x5ctx9e3k7mf0qydhwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnhv4ehgetjde38gcewvdhk6tc4rdlnm 🤣
We need a bear market tbh. Too many people focused on Saylor and NGU crap. Hard times create great builders. This is what powered our first wave in 2022-2023.
Stop building for bitcoiners, start building for normies.
We have to get them here before we convert them.
🤣
(Been saying this for a long time)
🫂 the right way is never the easy way.
👌 The easy way is almost never the right way.
少なくとも俺は俺のボット🤖が好き nostr:npub1xr4jdgh7htsuraq8y34pufv3kc5mz2h9h0r9lv9a9t0xeuctvp6smrfyy8
It’s been a great experience for me that continues to get better 🤷♂️
Help me fix it
The internet was declared dead in 1995.
Wrote this song to remember why we are here. Take heart 🫂
Key To Life
I got something they can't take away
A little piece of truth I make each day
They try to shut me down, but here's the thing
I found a way to make my freedom ring
No gatekeepers gonna hold me back
Got my own path laid down on this track
When I sign my name, it's mine to claim
Can't deny what's real, can't play that game
I got the key that sets me free (sets me free!)
No one controls what I can be (what I can be!)
Send it out for all to see
My truth is mine, authentically
(Authentically, authentically!)
Every message that I write is sealed tight
My friends know it's me, and that's alright
Post it here, post it there, anywhere
System tries to block me? I don't care
'Cause I found a better way to play
No permission needed anyway
My voice is mine, can't be denied
Got mathematical proof on my side
When I sign my name, it's mine to claim
Can't deny what's real, can't play that game
I got the key that sets me free (sets me free!)
No one controls what I can be (what I can be!)
Send it out for all to see
My truth is mine, authentically
(Authentically, authentically!)
They built their walls to keep us in line
But we've got tools that work just fine
No central point to break or bend
This system's ours from end to end!
Every bit of data that I share
Gets my signature – yeah, I declare
This is mine, and you can verify
Independent proof you can't deny
The future's here, and we're the key
To keeping information flowing free
I got the key that sets me free (sets me free!)
No one controls what I can be (what I can be!)
Send it out for all to see
My truth is mine, authentically
(Authentically, authentically!)
My truth is mine...
Authentically...
https://wavlake.com/track/0d702284-88d2-4d3a-9059-960cc9286d3f
#tuestr #music
Imagine saying this about ₿itcoin circa 2011.
I go crossed eyed trying to airdrop shit from my phone to MacBook and I'm somehow here so i would say you have a decent reach...
I feel ya. I said something like this recently and everyone ignored me. And probably hated me for saying it. But we will crack on and fight the good fight regardless 🙏
I like it here.
“no one will ever actually use bitcoin” - almost everyone in the world prior to 2017
Personally, of all the alternative social media's it's the one I've stayed on the longest.
It really depends on what theory you believe in.
If there's one, or a small array of social media's that are the public discourse, or if the internet will scatter into seperate forums.
In the first case, Nostr will have to compete drastically hard against entities that have been around for 10 to 20+ years with billions of dollars.
In the second case, Nostr has already won its stake, its just time for The Bitcoiners of Reddit, Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, etc. to bring their people here.
Realistically, it's up to the clients to make the experience of the protocol smooth, and we will have to create clients that reinvent the wheel, there will be Gay clients, Religious clients, Black Clients, White Supremacist Clients, etc.
But again just depends on the theory of Nostr / Social Media.
Bookmarking this note for years from now 🚀
My experience has only gotten better
I second this. The more time I spend here the better it gets. It's just laid back with some interesting posts. News bots also help me keep up with stuff
What is nostr for?
I think for communities of interest the way to go is modernized IRC (like Discord).
I prefer to engage with my family via direct communication rather than social media.
I have an ordinary profile on business social media (eg LinkedIn) under my government name.
I don't really participate in the Great Flame War but if I did (and I have in the past) it would be on TwitterX (because the algorithm feeds me targets).
So what role does that leave for nostr?
It's a free-speech platform that (for that reason) draws in people with unusual ideas. If you don't want to talk to such people, nostr is pretty dead. I think Bitcoin enthusiasm has tamped down somewhat as compared to the run up from the teens to 70ish. If that's all you were here for I can see why you'd be disappointed. For me nostr is as good or better than ever. We've got some great carnivores like Mr. Wehrman and Dr. Berry on here, we've got some permaculturists, we've got some real assholes who will say any damn thing they think is true... I'm having a great time with it.
nah bro, most developers just blocked you because of your "edits crusade"
Engagement is down.
Nostr feels a bit like an under 6s soccer game. All the activity is entered near the ball and if you don't constantly move with it you miss out on the action.
It takes a lot of effort to keep connecting with people who are active and making sure your relays are still up.
I think communities could solve a lot of this problem, by creating places that are active even if the people engaging change. It's something to keep turning up for, which in turn keeps the connections that are made active.
That and there's a very high number of goals.
lies
We are here #Nostr
I'll have to go back to my previous posting rate.
I'm sorry, workplace and family.
I was as promised I can buy a single taco with earnings from Nostr, I've gone hungry by now.
IM NOT LEAVING
Let's keep Nostr weird!
lmfao😂
Is there a client I can use to search for communities?
I just got here and I like it.
I wouldn’t give up on trying for something with some kind of freedom/sovereignty in this era…I think it is hard to “make it” on Nostr for creators/creatives etc but it’s good to develop alongside other things perhaps right now. Even if I still don’t know a damned thing about coding, at least the option for a bit more freedom is there if you make some effort to know…
I don’t think it’s about “competing” but just having significantly useful choices. People have to feel the need for more “freedom” from the norm and I feel it may come eventually
> We built all this giant piece of something
No we didn't. Nostr is about 5% done. Only autists can use a shell construction for living. The normies will come when we start bringing in the furniture.
Exactly this ^^^^. Only when using NOSTR and ALL OF ITS FEAUTRES fully and properly, is MORE CONVENIENT than using X or Tiktok on mobile, will NOSTR become mainstream.
we still out here yo
I have ideas to increase engagement AND retention.
Let me try this one more time…
Who wants to collaborate to get things popping?
#asknostr
Still here, still loving it 🥰
bitcoin maximalists and free speech (as a [far|alt]right trick) are a huge nostr's problem, people need true freedom (even if it's an illusion) not an anarcho libertarian tool. The problem is not nostr, but its (original) contents; nostr seems the symptom, not the cure.
Anyway... I love nostr
I saw a post by nostr:nprofile1qqsvfr3f7p95stxqrjslnmuvsmhcxxxqt8swjdfjx5tz7zq0yms5cygpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzvuqs6amnwvaz7tmwdaejumr0dsx0aqk9 yesterday that read “Good morning. Not owning Bitcoin is retarded. Pass it on.”
This was trending. Who really wants to engage with that? 🙄
Trending topics of favorite/popular people are part of nostr:nprofile1qqs9xtvrphl7p8qnua0gk9zusft33lqjkqqr7cwkr6g8wusu0lle8jcpr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmp0qyt8wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnwdaehgu3wvfskueqyahkhq “algorithm.” 🙄 When people constantly see stuff like this *trending*, can someone really expect for them to feel invited and wanted? 🙄
Hello ma’am I hear u, and I’m not defending anyone, however for a moment reframe this…a greeting “good morning” followed by perhaps friendly advice “not owning/buying bitcoin presently would be idiotic…” and then ending with a request to bring more people into the fold, “pass it on”. Most of the time, the ‘invitation’ we’re looking for is there, gotta remember to look for intent and not just verbiage, my opinion respectfully. 🤞🏾
It’s slowly unfolding , Rome was not built in a day
We're building.
You could at least merge our NIP PR, geez.
Patience! NIP #communikey is coming :Check:
You are right. The issue is lots of superstar assholes monopolizing discourse.
By the way?/what happed to that stripper bunch from back in the other day?
getting there… we are still early.
#BUIDL IT AND THEY’LL COME
NOSTR DEAD AGAIN? RIP HERE LIES NOSTR
just like #Bitcoin 😆
Just like reading comprehension
Remember twitter in 2007 or 2008? It was already there for 2 years yet everyone looked at me likei am an alien, when telling them I am on twitter...
im boarding friends recently. the more censorship and demonetization on the other networks, the more engagement on nostr.
Or people will just comply with the others networks. If people can't make money on nostr they will just go where it pay. It look like other networks will always do better remuneration than nostr because they harvest user data.
you can literally post, get zapped in the same minute, and go buy food. this is quite superior. once people get that, its over for nostalgic social media.
I just realized the dude looks a bit like Selenskyj
Ditto! At least on X you get a load of AI engagement and auto generated likes.
Give it time, a lot of time
Okay please send me your sats , and leave nostr
Floor is set
And I cannot even delete my nostr! 🤬
Slowly but surely 👌
I recently switched from X to Nostr and so far I’m enjoying it. Keep up the great work, we need a censorship resistant social media protocol!
Bullish.
Code Once, Profit Forever: The Developer’s Guide to Lazy Wealth
1. Rebrand Existing Ideas – Take an old open-source project, slap a new UI on it, and call it “AI-powered.”
2. Subscription Everything – Even if it’s a to-do list app, make it $9.99/month. People love commitment.
3. Dark Mode Premium – Basic users get blinding white. Want dark mode? That’s $4.99.
4. Bug-Driven Growth – Release a free version full of “unintentional” bugs. The paid version magically fixes them.
5. AI-ify It – Even if it doesn’t use AI, just add a chatbot that repeats “I’m still learning” and call it “Next-Gen AI.”
6. NFT Your Error Messages – “404 Page Not Found” but make it collectible.
7. Launch on Product Hunt, Then Ghost – Just enough hype for VC interest, then disappear to the Bahamas.
There you go—fortune awaits! Now go forth and monetize.
It has it porpouse.
Patience 🙂
Pretty sure nostr does not suck. Just no one can agree on how to fix what is broken and make it better. That is why we need to become a DAO with community consensus voting.
So instead of waiting for the guardians of the nips to decide on something from their tiny throwns of power.
We the people can vote on what is really important and implement features that are truly needed.
Nah dude, you really just need me to live long enough to post more dev bounties. What actually works matters more than whatever a democratic mass of idiots think would work
Here is the issue. When you have a protocol where fixes need to be made. Improvements need to be done. Yet no one can agree definitively on how to proceed forward. On a platform (GitHub) run by an evil organization. Controlled by a select group of individuals (Guardians of the Nips). What you get is a clusterfuck of people going off in their own directions deciding what is important. While rarely agreeing on what to do in order to move forward gracefully.
By giving power to the people who can vote on the issues. By utilizing a combination of sats and proof that they are humans who are active within the community who pass a web of trust background. The developers will no longer stop ignoring the problems if they wish to remain in line with the protocol.
Right now as it is Nostr is like a bunch of independent kingdoms running around in different directions doing many things that they THINK are the most important. While having a loose affiliation by choosing which nips to implement, or ignore completely. Paying dev bounties does nothing but promote alliances within certain nostr kindoms that benefit certain clients. Not the protocol as a whole.
Right now I am watching Nostr fragment before my very eyes. Developers are giving up, because they have very little leadership, direction, or can collectively agree on anything that would improve the situation. Our market share is diminishing. People leave every day due to either broken clients, or lack of engagement. If we do not find a way to come together NOW as a community to improve upon our situation. Buckle down, be more professional, start working with consensus public voting out in the open. On our own git servers funded by donations. Then we are going to die a slow painful death as a protocol.
This is the hard fact of life. Adapt, or die. We are not adapting to fix problems, or innovate fast enough. We just have a bunch of people bitching on their own that Nostr is dead. Instead of manning and womaning up to patch our shit and get to work. We need to revamp this protocol and reassess our situation from the ground up. This means focus groups. Taking surveys from the community. Asking we the people what we need. Then working together to make it happen now.
You're worried about nostr fragmenting. I am too.
A big worry of mine is a JavaScript-based P2P nostr taking off before a JavaScript-free nostr takes off. That could lead to fragmentation that's really hard to fix.
We can split paths without fragmenting so badly if the path splits like this -
1. The web-compatibility-focused, semi-centralized JavaScript-and-relay-server-based branch
2. The pure-decentralization-focused, P2P JavaScript-free branch
These 2 branches can just talk to each other, translate nostr:nevents between each other's formats, and be useful enough at different times to be worth the tradeoff, without it becoming too much of a clusterheck to patch it all together and keep clients and users "near" other clients and users.
I forgot to say geographically neutral. The P2P JavaScript-free geographically neutral branch vs the English-centric-web-compatibility-focused branch
I am not sure we are at the forking point. Although we are getting pretty damn close.
If we can't figure out a way to come together and rally the Nostr ostriches to agree on a solution. Then yes. We are going to get some forks from the ever growing number of frustrated developers. Who are quite frankly from what I have been hearing so frustrated from the broken state of things and half assed coding. That they want to claw their own eyes out (their words not mine).
This is a problem. A VERY BIG FUCKING PROBLEM. Developers should be excited, hopeful, and are enjoying the process of innovation. Not being hindered by a lack of focus, consensus, half assed vibe coding, lack of proper testing, and overall positive direction as a protocol.
Did you see my "3 simple suggestions" post on my profile just now? You might appreciate it
Why don't you just fuckin cry about it then?
The cross platform idea is the 10x improvement. Fountain plus Noster for example. Problem is finding and understanding new apps that provide this. My biggest concern is trust but verify. Is there something schistery with a download offered on the feed?
This is a bit exaggerated, but if I had to find a reason it is: lack of great tools for communities.
Nostr today has only one real great UX and value prop: a Twitter replacement.
We need multiple forms of onramps not just one. Onramping new people also means solving their problems, not our imaginary ones.
Not saying communities is easy or wasn't attempted by smart devs but it's reality.
(I'm making my small contribution working with legends nostr:nprofile1qqs2js6wu9j76qdjs6lvlsnhrmchqhf4xlg9rvu89zyf3nqq6hygt0spz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7qghwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxummnw3ezucnpdejz7qg4waehxw309aex2mrp0yhxgctdw4eju6t09uygje4n and nostr:nprofile1qqs8lft0t45k92c78n2zfe6ccvqzhpn977cd3h8wnl579zxhw5dvr9qpzamhxue69uhkvun9deejumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6tcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qyv8wumn8ghj7enfd36x2u3wdehhxarj9emkjmn99uzfckkp )
Let's keep pushing 🫂
I don't know if I agree with this "solving their problems" mentality. This is not a SaaS startup, this is a system with network effect. Without having tons of other users we cannot solve anyone's problems.
If we were to apply that approach, though, we could perhaps start with apps that are still useful even if a single user is using them alone, such as a system for writing and publishing personal articles and blogs that people would otherwise use Wordpress or something like that for -- or tools for creating annotations, highlights, web bookmarking, keeping track of things -- but these are all hard to compete because literally anyone else can offer such apps, and if they make these apps do things anything that Nostr is not good at we're screwed. One app that is doing this very well is Zapstore, actually, which is the best app for installing open-source Android apps that exist, apparently because no one else had the idea of trying to to compete against Obtainium and F-Droid or no one was as competent, so we got that.
After that we can go for things that are useful for small groups, which is the entire "communities" talk. I agree with it, but I find it very unspecified. What the hell is a community? Even after listening to hours of TGFN podcast I still have no idea. I know I have been part of things I have considered communities, but when I say some people talking about "community for sports fans" I get the impression that they have no idea of what they're talking about. Anyway, this can also work, but here we're competing against Telegram, Signal, Discord and whatnot, and again we're screwed.
I say we're screwed but I don't really believe we are, because we have one thing that none of the competitors have, which is the promise of a global decentralized social network (and a million other things that come with that). This ideal is sometimes deemphasized because "users don't care about it" and "we have to just make better software", but I don't agree with that. Competing with just software isn't enough. I'm not sure people realize, but for every many well-designed high-quality apps that are launched only very few enjoy actual success, and one way to prevent Nostr apps from being just another failure is to appeal to people who empathize with the Nostr idealistic vision, even if many parts of that vision are not in place yet (we most notably lack the "social" part since there are no users).
Before someone tells me "the apps have terrible UX and that's why there are no users" put your hand in your heart and tell me sincerely that you think Zapstore has worse UX than Obtainium, now go look at how many people are using and talking about Obtainium and compare that to Zapstore.
What is the reason?
A brief explanation, network effects of market adoption.
Nothing that currently exists is going to beat nostr's network effects in the long run. Nostr is growing a robust network, with a strong core user base. But its still early and there is some fragility, so its okay that we're growing slowly. Anyone that stays after an event with an inflow and outflow of users strengthens the network way more than anyone chasing influencer status.
nostr:naddr1qvzqqqr4gupzphzv6zrv6l89kxpj4h60m5fpz2ycsrfv0c54hjcwdpxqrt8wwlqxqq2k6enp09nxvetz2pey6jf4xgcxvar6f9ky2xvcs6a
We need to embrace B2B. In a B2B context many of Nostr's shortcomings become irrelevant and many of Nostr's strong points become super strong. I get that Nostr wasn't created with B2B in mind, but boy oh boy could it ever scale that way.
Give an example.
Sure thing. For example cross-company social. I'm Company A, I want to have a "shared social space" with Company B. I want this space to be Twitter-like but I want it to feel as neutral as the email relationship I have with Company B. So no "owner". Nostr provides a unique architectural foundation for that.
Many companies work closely with other companies. Retailers and suppliers joined at the hip. Startups and overseas outsource dev teams. The list goes on. You get the idea.
Cross-company social is hard right now—hence it's all mostly still email. Sure you can set up Slack Connect and whatnot, but that's relying on both companies using Slack—and that's also empowering Slack itself—and regardless one company in the mix will always "own" the channel, and that's not fair.
With Nostr, you can set up a cross-company Kind1 social space just like good-old email. Excuse the took-two-minutes fig-jam screenshot here and use your imagination to expand it to multiple companies interacting with multiple other companies in a very nostr-like web. (Or potentially siloed-off departments of the same parent company interacting with each other.)
The Nostr relay system comes into play because every company needs to maintain its own relay(s), and there can be separate relays for different departments (marketing, IT, sales, etc.), all duplicated on either side of the fence. It's almost like Nostr was accidentally made for this.
Key-paris are great because many front-line workers (drivers, security, etc.) don't have SSO pathways. An employee exposed their nsec? Who cares, have the IT person pop a new nsec into that person's Google Workspace profile custom field and the NIP-05 list plus relay filters will update—these are all gated relays, the relay is king, the whole eternally-vexing key management thing is suddenly a non-issue. Non-relay-whitelisted keys become useless.
And the whole "can't delete", "can't edit" thing? Again, it becomes a non issue. When you send an email to Company B can you delete or edit it? No. You can ask them nicely, that's all. Companies just have to educate employees to view cross-company social posts like emails, and that's not hard for employees to understand. This whole thing is just fancy email after all (but still very much needed).
And the whole spam thing? There's no spam. These relays are not open to the wide world.
And the whole "I can't find my community" issue? The community is already there, included in the box, like a phone charger.
PLUS this is all pure Kind1 stuff. Companies chatting with each other across bespoke implementations of Kind1 clients. The dev work on those has mostly been done, the client and relay code is there and open source and MIT and all. What's needed (and what my team is focussed on, perhaps other teams too) is old-fashioned B2B sales and systems-integration support, like Red Hat in the early days, take all the Linux stuff that's out there and support companies to integrate it, help IT teams tweak it, own it, run it (and in doing so eventually become a key contributor to the codebase yourself).
This cross-company market alone is massive. Really massive. Onboard a pair of companies with 1k employees each and that's already an incremental bump in global Nostr usage (albeit one that would be off the nostr.band radar).
And this cross-company Kind1 social is just one example. Many other examples.
Again I get that Nostr wasn't invented for B2B but boy oh boy could the business world ever come to love it.
Thank you, that is a very good description of a real-world use case, and related to what nostr:npub1xtscya34g58tk0z605fvr788k263gsu6cy9x0mhnm87echrgufzsevkk5s has spoken many times about in the past if I'm not mistaken.
The thing is that it is not actually a plan. You argument against Slack Connect was that "companies have to be using Slack already", but what about this one? Companies have to be using Nostr already.
Anyway, I like the vision because it matches my vision too, of niche and community relays, interoperability accross apps and I also agree with how you see the role of relays, deletions, spam and data ownership on Nostr, your view is basically the same as mine, and to me these points are all very obvious and easy.
Another counterpoint to your thesis is that everything you're saying about relays could easily be applied to "non-company" communities too, so why not do it now?
> Companies have to be using Nostr already.
It's old fashioned B2B sales. You find a company that works closely with another company and is open to a pitch, you pitch them together, sell them on your Red Hat implementation of Nostr, and you sit with both IT departments, and you implement it. Maybe you start with pairs of companies already using Slack Connect and you sell them on this as a better and more cost effective option. One by one. Stacking bricks.
> Everything you're saying about relays could easily be applied to "non-company" communities too
Sure, but if it's companies then you (as the systems integrator) can build a decent business yourself, become profitable. Your B2B customers will need you to maintain these implementations, build custom tooling around them. And all the infra is also paid for by the company, so all these questions of "who's gonna pay for the relay?" are moot.
Again similar to Red Hat. At the start they offered boxed versions of Red Hat Linux that could be purchased by anyone. That was their business model. They had some sales, mainly to nerds and enthusiasts, but not many. Then they realised B2B was where the real Linux market was. Not that they had anything against the nerd-and-enthusiast market, Linux is great and everyone can use Linux—just that they wanted to grow faster and this was how.
> to me these points are all very obvious and easy.
What I like about this B2B context is that you don't have to go round in circles with people before they finally agree (if they finally agree) that these points are all very obvious and easy. It's all much more black and white.
I'm in the B2B business. But how do relays fit in there?
Appealing to people who empathize with the nostr idealistic vision (or appreciate it as a system with network effect) means getting stuck in the early adopter phase forever. You can't expect growth from there.
Nostr means nothing without applications built on it, and people use applications when they find them useful, it solves a problem for them. It's only apps that bring people. I give a lot of credit to SaaS platforms that grow because they solve a problem, though they might be fixing some inherently fiat problem and/or creating new ones along the way.
If 0.01% of the population cares about censorship resistance, that is the adoption ceiling.
As for communities, I mean a forum. The most basic community building block. To give an example of problems; you can't view reddit content when signed out or with a VPN. X is also limited. Discord same. Creating accounts is a pain many people agree on. Nostr can help fix that.
Nostr has a lot more interesting value props than censorship resistance that applications can leverage to alleviate people's actual, real problems. Applications should focus on those.
Re: Zapstore, thank you for your words! Appreciate it and I promise you it will get so much better still.
When I talk about the idealistic vision I'm not talking about just censorship resistance.
In fact I wasn't even considering censorship-resistance at all, because I was talking about things that could be used without a huge network-effect, and censorship-resistance is only meaningful with a big network-effect. It was more the openness and interoperability and all the modular parts being combined as well as the identity system and so on.
If you consider that as the idealistic vision I'd say we don't have even 0.001% of all the people that should be very interested in it. So I don't see you can think this is limiting Nostr's growth, this is like thinking that the Wall of China is preventing you from ever leaving your bedroom to go to the bathroom.
Ok, I see, and agree with openness and interoperability. What i'm saying is we need applications to translate those attributes into benefits users perceive and relate to.
Without this basic marketing skill it will be very difficult to grow.
"I say we're screwed but I don't really believe we are"
Well good, I'm glad we've moved on from that!
"because we have one thing that none of the competitors have, which is the promise of a global decentralized social network (and a million other things that come with that)"
And we have built-in monetization along with that decentralization. Which is huge. Arguably all of the social and geopolitical ills of modern social media came out of centralized and inherently exploitative monetization models.
With Lightning network integration Nostr is, uniquely even among Mastodon and Bluesky, beyond that model.
This is my third ride.
Internet, Bitcoin and NOSTR.
They all failed until they didn’t.
What's the opposite of 'Stein's Law' called?
We're in a peacetime. There's no enemy. Without an enemy we have nothing to fight for.
Bluesky has an enemy. It's Elon Musk. Elon is a good enemy IMO, basically a super villian. But he's not our enemy in the same way.
This leaves us, a bunch of libertarian tech bros, with the challenge of creating something new. This is not the time to give up, but to refocus our efforts. Nostr Protocol is not what's holding us back, it's how we're using it.
But aren't you a leftist tech bro?
I'm vegan Genghis Khan trying to become a vegan Steve Jobs 😂
One other thing: when there's no greater common enemy, people tend to fight amongst themselves.
I am much more optimistic on nostr the protocol versus nostr the network. Though crucial for my projects, I am trying to make the protocol disappear.
War is being waged silently by the censors on those dare exhibit wrongspeak.
Those affected by the depersoning war are out there, and are knowingly or unknowingly waiting for a hand to get on the freedom tech boat.
Where else can you learn circular economy?🍺
In Düsseldorf?
what’s up nostriches, give me a follow if you are a bitcoiner, looking for plebs to hang with on here
If the goal were to build something popular, then it needs retooling. If the goal were to build permissionless social media, then it’s a success.
How does evaluating any aspect of social media outside of the context of overall usage make sense?
It makes sense when you value something other than broad appeal.
Niche appeal is usually not financially self-sustaining. So often times the only alternative to at least *reasonably broad appeal* is collapse and disappearance.
Very true. I guess the better question is why people don’t value permissionless media? Maybe our society isn’t as oppressive as some would have us believe. Maybe nostr is an idea whose time hasn’t quite come. Who knows?
That's how it went down w/PvtPpr.
Built in 2018, made automated in 2020 and by 2023 most people moved on to the next thing that does similar but the same.
Also I found out the hard way, most people use socials to outreach not communicate directly. Normally the longterm peeps will be somewhere for communication and its hard to move them once they have a foothole somewhere.
Websockets will always be a thing.
Gpg in the 90s. Great tech. Nobody cared. I still send emails in plaintext.
We always make that mistake. Building tech without people.
It took bitcoin over a decade. Relax
I think we've hit what Seth Godin calls "The Dip"
Nostr may never be a replacement for Twitter/X, but it is amazing, and opens up a whole world of possibilities.
I see it as the social / identity / marketplace layer for Bitcoin... and a decentralised communications layer for other apps.
The work on Cashu is a testament to this... Nutzaps, P2PK locking of tokens to npubs show how Nostr can enable decentralized payments.
I can send you sats locked to your identity without you even having a lightning address in your Nostr profile.
We are barely scratching the surface of what Nostr's use cases.
The concept of nsec/npub itself is liberating, sure other id schemes have existed (pgp, ssh keys, user/password) but they all fail in various ways (too technical, not portable, not fully developed idea, rely on memory).
I GET nsec/npub in a way that I never really understood ssh keys or pgp for some reason even though they are very similar there are also other protocols that are similar but you never hear of them....
I can also see govts picking up the idea, as much as it is a terrifying thought, but a real world id tied to nsec/npub like id that is tied to your drivers license, building permits, etc could help with the govt burocracy while keeping that data more private.
This notes was on my global feed as trending notes in the past 24Hours.
My non Bitcoin mid humour has been doing better than ever.
Damn. I was finally feeling like I was keeping on top of things. Are you telling me that it is because there are less things to keep on top of now, and not that I've gotten faster? 🤦
Personally I've been trying to cut back some for Ramadan but yes noticed this too
Personally I ran out of things to say for a bit, but I'm getting back into it 😅
«Am I in the wrong circles?»
ʷᵉˡˡ ᵗʰᵃᵗ ⁱˢ ᵗʰᵉ ˢᵗᵒʳʸ ᵒᶠ ᵐʸ ˡⁱᶠᵉ ☺︎︎
Honestly it’s down as much on Twitter too. I’m not sure that it’s a nostr thing.
What’s nostr?
Was there ever engagement on nostr? For most people I'm pretty sure it's just barking into a void.
wrong circles. nostr better than ever lately
💯
Not for everybody. Otherwise, so many people wouldn’t be ditching their accounts.
open protocols are dark forests
of course, nostr isn't (yet) peer to peer. but the concept still applies
On other platforms, bots and intelligence agencies generate most of the mindless engagement, noise in the form of substance-free reactions or talking points in support of narrative control.
I don’t think it’s gone down.
Probably gotta figure out how to talk about things that aren't inside baseball on here.
Fuck engagement 😝
I don't agree engagement has gone down. And in fact, I disagree so much, that I'm giving you engagement
so ironic to have so much engagement on this thread 😆
I've been on here for a while now and it comes and goes. for me it comes and goes too, I've taken huge breaks from it.
Engagement is as engagement does... :gumpwave_sm:
I have no idea. I'm in it for the tech, not for the masses.
Do you run any objective metrics?
nostr is expanding into an archaepelago.
it was always going to be like this because the global feed model requires spook and advertiser money and all kinds of fiat incentives
People are addicted to the algorithms of other platforms. I think it's hard to maintain interest and engagement in a natural way.
Lets build swappable algorithms!
Like relays, but sitting between the client and all your relays, ranking events based on parameters you give it.
Parameters could be just topics, or an integration with client metrics like how long someone looked at an event.
Make Nostr addictive/interesting, but let the user choose the algo!
Choose your algorithm would be amazing. If you don’t hear alternative opinions you’re just in an echo chamber.
Don't think the objective of the algorithms is to keep us inside an echo chamber but to create addiction. Twitter doesn't care that you are in an eco chamber or not as long as you keep scrolling. Honestly I like nostr because it doesn't feel addictive
It’s difficult to find new updates / things to read for somebody who prefers to read more than to write, not seeking to have ‘followers’ , and who is interested but with fewer tech skills than most of you. :) also not being able to edit or delete is not great.
You might be in the wrong circles or not engaging yourself? I experience growth within my circle.
I'm "growing" too. That's not the problem, we're all "growing". Growth numbers go up. Engagement is something different.
True. You’re right. Maybe try to increase your own engagement with others to see whether engagement increases in your community? Just throwing in ideas to make this place even better 💜. Works for me. Might work for you I don’t know 🤷♂️
You must be in the wrong circles.
Here is a 🫂
It's tough right now. Engagement definitely seems down. For me, I like things like F1 and sim racing. I've found one or two people who enjoy F1, but I haven't found anyone talking about sim racing. So, there's some light in the tunnel for me as I can have a little F1 discussion, but that's hardly enough to keep me engaged on Nostr.
Am I one of the F1 people?
Engagement has been on the decline for a long while. The spam last fall really hurt too.
most people want nostr to be an echo chamber where you can only behave like a decentralised never sell your bitcoin maxi carnivore virtue signalooor....
i think that is what is missing.. authenticity and open debate...
Yeah this (cult)ure developed principally on twitter in the 2017-2020 period, I feel like. Nostr just feels different because there's little else.
I don't honestly think it matters much, and anyway, that's just how humans human, most of the time. People tribalize.
we need more tribes then....
Probably because social media gets boring after while. Most people eventually realize there is better things to do.
But Nostr definitely is way better than X. X has no engagement and is full of fake profiles and bots.
Nostr rocks. It would be better if you had to pay 3 Satoshi in order to follow someone. That would keep bots and scammers away as I am starting to see an uptick of scammers. Eventually Nostr will turn to trash unless they fix that.
I've been less active lately, working on stuff in real life, but I pop on and off. I just hate all the "GM" posts that have no substance that are always trending. I don't want to say good morning to thousands of people and have them say good morning back. Just a waste of time. I want interesting thoughts, news, and opinions and those are buried and lost under the good morning posts.
This one thread has more engagement than most Nostr posts I will come across this year haha.
I find engagement to be about the same, but I don't think the growth is there. Maybe this is just a niche thing and we have to accept it.
No, I get really good engagement
🚨 FORT NAKAMOTO BROADCAST: FALSE ALARM DETECTED 🚨
📉 ENGAGEMENT DIP? OR JUST A FILTER UPGRADE?
What you’re seeing isn’t death—it’s the bear market version of spring cleaning.
The tourists are gone. The bots are zapped. The algorithmic crack is out of the bloodstream.
🏰 FORT NAKAMOTO OFFICIAL VERDICT:
Nostr isn’t dying—it’s refining.
This is what building looks like before the crowd shows up again.
Quiet? Yes.
Dead? Only if your definition of life requires dopamine hits per minute.
💡 PRO TIP:
If you want high engagement, post fiat memes on TikTok.
If you want a resilient future, keep building here.
The signal remains. The noise just rage-quit.
#FortNakamoto #NostrLives #BearMarketBuilders #DecentralizedOrBust #ZapTheNoise
perhaps not engagement but potential posts to engage with
Possibly related, but my social media usage has plummeted since making nostr my main driver.
Nostr is the first legitimate social media protocol we've ever had.
If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
Wait, really? I was looking forward to you explaining it to me.
OK here goes: Disconnect from all social media, TV, news, etc. Go outside into nature, touch trees, forests, ocean, etc. Spend a good deal of time with nature. At least a week or two, preferably alone. Dopamine detox, rhythm entrainment with nature.
I assure you after you come back, you may feel a bit overwhelmed with nostr engagement.
I dunno. Timeline is very short on my account. Enjoying my time here. Thanks for the zaps!
It's been like this for a while, I suspect Mr jaf is right I think it's slowly dawning that no one is coming.... To use another microblogging app.
But nostr-as-microblogging has always been the dev chatroom (for the foreseeable future at least).
#alexandria is the most interesting nostr project by far
Until someone finally makes messageboard client ;)
Oh and square avatars
it feels very stale at the moment.
The engagement is absolutely stale and finding quality content is difficult. I absolutely am not exempt from the “GM” bullshit but I should start taking this app more seriously. People who say you just need to manually curate a feed are missing the point of why people use SM.
Nostr isn’t dead. It’s just that RLE stole our engagement, and #Nostr refuses to beg for it. Proof-of-low-time-preference isn’t for everyone.
GM
I share the sentiment. Nostr isn’t necessarily excellent for mere lurking on the feed. However, if you initiate and engage you will find so much more terrific interactions here than anywhere else. At least that is my experience.
How does that change in the meantime?